" an armchair acarya "

[kailasa 0]

Whether thus it is possible to try to understand there was when " an armchair acarya " in vaisnavism?

 

The vivid example is Lord Caitanya who in the first formally had no disciples and which for example in relation to Paramananda Puri occupied subordinated, in the certain sense, position.

 

Head Gosvamis was Svarupa Damodara and besides who among Gosvamis occupied " an armchair acarya "? Rupa Gosvami Sanatana Gosvami studied from Raghunatha Gosvami.

 

" Because Raghunatha dasa Gosvami was an assistant to Svarupa Damodara, he knew much about the external and internal features of the pastimes of Lord Caitanya. Thus the two brothers Rupa and Sanatana always used to hear of this from him. "

 

And summarized doctrine Gosvamis Jiva Gosvami. Well and who from them was in " an armchair acarya "? It is simply full nonsense.

 

Among many devotees can be mentioned in parampara one-two devotee, but it does not mean at all that they has been appointed and " sat in an armchair " acarya? If for example Rupa Gosvami it is rasa - acarya nobody appointed His to this post, such things occur on the fact.

 

Brahmananda Puri were the head of all sanyasas Lord Caitanya. Vakrisvara Pandit who was the head of all dancers. Sri Vijaya dasa who was the main thing among those sang. Buddhimanta Khan were the main thing among servants. Among four basic satellites Lord Caitanya Ramananda Ray in exclusive position has been written (he was in an armchair acarya?). In Jaganatha Puri main are allocated - Paramananda Puri, Svarupa Damodar, Gadadhara, jagadananda, Sankara, Vakrisvara, Damodar Pandit, Haridasa Thakur, Raghunatha vaidya and Raghunatha dasa. And whom from them Lord Caitanya has appointed in " an armchair acarya "? All.

 

From all numerous followers Gadadhara Pandit was four basic - Sri Dhruvananda, Sridhara brahmacari, Haridasa brahmacari and Raghunatha Bhagavatacarya. Where here forgive the one who is in an armchair acarya? Gadadhara Pandit in fact should leave after itself whom that in an armchair acarya? At Gadadhara Pandit, Advaita Acarya, Nityananda Prabhu, Srivasa Thakura there was an infinite quantity of followers and the guru and anybody from them did not leave " one acarya ".

 

Main among disciples and main among acaryas, singers, dancers and so on, it is those devotees, whose position is obvious all. Main among disciples Lord Caitanya were Rupa and Sanatana Gosvami and who appointed them to this place and what " they main, all who are not consent should to leave a society? " That for nonsense? Among those who helped Rupa Gosvami in " bhakti ratnokara" 21 devotees and whom has appointed Rupa Gosvami from them the main? In this transfer is not present even Raghunatha Gosvami and Jiva Gosvami?

 

Acarya or the leader he "becomes" as acarya natural way. As it was clearly explained by Srila Prabhupada - " acarya nobody appoints ". Srila Bhaktisidhanta Thakur did not appoint after itself any successors as those who wants to declare in the artificial image itself whom that try to invent it. To embody "spirituality" in the administrative way.

 

Srila Prabhupada has appointed after itself some disciples what to establish it principle GBC simply. In days of Lord Caitanya there was no necessity to establish GBC because GBC or the general management of grown-ups devotees, existed natural way and so in a society was varnasrama at that time.

 

In parampara it is for example mentioned jaganatha dasa babaji which was not diksa guru Bhaktivinoda Thakura. This circuit of physical continuity at all has no special sense. In continuity the most basic persons are mentioned and they do not appear a method of "appoint".

 

Gaurakisora dasa babaji was not appointed as acarya from Bhaktivinoda Thakura. And Bhaktisidhanta Sarasvati Thakur was not appointed acarya " in an armchair " from Gaurakisora dasa babaji.

 

Srila Prabhupada was not appointed acarya from Bhaktisidhanta Sarasvati Thakur. Vyasa did not appoint " in an armchair " Madhva. And Narada Muny did not appoint Vyasa " in an armchair " acarya.

 

Lord Caitanya has set acaryas and any of them is not appointed also any of them did not operate separately. If only Vallbhacarya? But Vallbhacarya itself also has appointed himself.

 

TRUE acarya creates many guru and he does not appoint whom that the main thing " in an armchair " - that that could eat successfully all others acaryas. TRUE acarya many guru and all these gurus creates operate in common, real spirituality is those.

 

Therefore the system of "appoint" acaryas completely material system and until then while who that will follow such invented and through to materialistic system, this "armchair" will continuously transfer on parampara envy and a different sort of gamble, under a kind of great spirituality.

[gHari 0]

In North America, the popular expression is "Armchair Quarterback". A quarterback is the one who calls the plays and plans the football game. But an "armchair quarterback" is one who sits in front of the television watching the game, always second-guessing the actual quarterback on the screen.

 

A similar meaning is implied by the colloquialism, "back-seat driver" which refers to a person sitting in the back seat of a car who is always telling the actual car driver how to drive.

 

I personally don't see the current guru ratification system as "voting in gurus", but rather see it as a necessary protection against false egos that may somehow feel that Supersoul wants them to act as gurus, when indeed they are not yet qualified. Since we no longer have one central controller for ISKCON (Srila Prabhupada) who would normally ratify new gurus, we have been given a democratic system by Prabhupada in the form of the GBC. Many sticks bound together are stronger than any one stick. Some sticks may not hold true, but as a unit, the theory is that the chance of fault is minimized. What else can be done?

 

The GBC, themselves know that the system is not foolproof, as witnessed in the reversal of some decisions over time. A majority of the sticks failed. But, what else could be done?

 

I would gladly assume the position of supreme central commander of ISKCON, taking advice from my GBC field of experts, but how long before I would be deposed (or worse)? Coup after coup, until complete anarchy; kill the King, kill the King - that is just basic group dynamics.

 

Prabhupada was the one gorilla, the one big brute. He was Hanuman surrounded by monkees; he was just naturally unquestionably in charge. Now we are simply monkees. What can we do?

 

[ancient_paztriot 0]

I think Prabhupada left a wonderful example for those who were fortunate enough to get his mercy. It is an act proving impossible to follow.

 

Prabhupada was the genuine thing… confirmed by scriptures… a surrendered soul who can remember Krsna.

 

I think your point allows no measure for the devotees who have learned that. Thus, the whole liberated guru issue becomes a farce with "I'm the best thing going" … which is very offensive to the parmapara and certainly Krsna Himself. It undermines everything ISKCON does because it compromises the very truth they presume to propagate!

 

Cheating religion? You go where I fear to tread.

 

EVERYBODY is justifying EVERYTHING they do. But can you justify it to Krsna?

 

Blowin in the Wind

 

How many roads must a man walk down

Before you call him a man?

Yes, 'n' how many seas must a white dove sail

Before she sleeps in the sand?

Yes, 'n' how many times must the cannon balls fly

Before they're forever banned?

The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind,

The answer is blowin' in the wind.

 

How many times must a man look up

Before he can see the sky?

Yes, 'n' how many ears must one man have

Before he can hear people cry?

Yes, 'n' how many deaths will it take till he knows

That too many people have died?

The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind,

The answer is blowin' in the wind.

 

How many years can a mountain exist

Before it's washed to the sea?

Yes, 'n' how many years can some people exist

Before they're allowed to be free?

Yes, 'n' how many times can a man turn his head,

Pretending he just doesn't see?

The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind,

The answer is blowin' in the wind - Bob Dylan

.....................

 

Thee world is rushing towards destruction. Both the citizens and the government know people's liberties are sold to capitalists thieves. Rolling on… to the bitter end.

[kailasa 0]

It is about "acaryas" GM. GBC ISKCON not create guru. If person follow 1st upadesamrita he is go GBC and GBC take him PERMISSION. GBC not create gueus.

[kailasa 0]

GM appoint one "acarya". It is not vedic.

[Guest guest]

kailasa your message sounds ritvik and you mean to blaspheme the sampradaya of srila prabhupada

 

one single attempt, two maha aparadhas..

 

very professional

 

 

[gHari 0]

I didn't hear ritvik, although I'm not entirely sure what I heard.

 

[krsna 3]

 

Prabhupada was the one gorilla, the one big brute. He was Hanuman surrounded by monkees; he was just naturally unquestionably in charge. Now we are simply monkees. What can we do?

 

[krsna 3]

Lord Krsna says "This Supreme science was thus received through the chain of Disciplic Succession,amd the Saintly Kings understood it in this way".

 

The Disciplic Succession

 

(1)Lord Sri Krsna

(22)Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu

(29)Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura

(30)Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji Maharaja

(31)Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja Prabhupada

 

 

 

(32)His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 

(33)

A Pure Devotee ,that is a Disciple of His Divine Grace A.C Bhativedanta,Who you are sure that,By Krsna's Arrangement,Will be able to Teach you,and Direct You,and Take You,Back Home,Back to Godhead, to the Supreme Personality of Godhead,Krsna! I say a disciple of A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada ,Because the word DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION ,means He must Be a Disciple Of the Former Guru!

 

I Pray to Krsna,That Everyone Find A Guru ,with these Qualifications!

 

KRSNA GIVES YOU GURU YOU DESERVE,GURU GIVES YOU KRSNA YOU DESERVE!

[Guest guest]

there's also many disciples of 32 and many disciples of the other 33s

 

the qualification is to be the visible manifestation of the chatya guru

[krsna 3]

 

 

Srila Prabhupada lecture

 

Seattle Oct. 2, 1968

 

When you come to the point of understanding that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul," then the next stage will be what is the function of the soul? That function of soul is Krsna consciousness, working in Krsna consciousness. So in the present age one has to take directly to the function of the soul; then other things will automatically come. It is not possible at the present moment that you can go to a secluded place and peacefully sit there and meditate upon... It is not possible in this age. It is impossible. If you try artificially, it will be failure. Therefore you have to take this process, harer nama harer nama harer nama eva kevalam, kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha. In this age of Kali, there is no other alternative for self-realization than this chanting Hare Krsna. That is the practical, real fact.

 

Madhudvisa: Is there any way for a Christian to, without the help of a spiritual master, to reach the spiritual sky through believing in the words of Jesus Christ and trying to follow his teachings?

 

Prabhupada: I don't follow. Tamal Krsna: Can a Christian in this age, without a spiritual master, but by reading the Bible and following Jesus's words, reach the...

 

Prabhupada: When you read Bible, you follow spiritual master. How can you say without? As soon as you read Bible, that means you are following the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ, that means you are following spiritual master. So where is the opportunity of being without spiritual master?

 

Madhudvisa: I was referring to a living spiritual master.

 

Prabhupada: Spiritual master is not the question of... Spiritual master is eternal. Spiritual master is eternal. So your question is without spiritual master. Without spiritual master you cannot be, at any stage of your life. You may accept this spiritual master or that spiritual master. That is a different thing. But you have to accept. As you say that "by reading Bible," when you read Bible that means you are following the spiritual master represented by some priest or some clergyman in the line of Lord Jesus Christ. So any case, you have to follow a spiritual master. There cannot be the question without spiritual master. Is that clear?

 

Madhudvisa: I mean like we couldn't understand the teachings of the Bhagavad-gita without your help, without your presentation.

 

Prabhupada: Similarly you have to understand Bible with the help of the priest in the church.

 

 

 

****************************************************

 

I do not find the strength to carry on alone the sankirtana of the holy name of Hari.

 

Please bless me by giving me just one drop of faith with which to obtain the great treasure of the holy name of Krsna.

 

Krsna is yours; you have the power to give Him to me. I am simply running behind you shouting, "Krsna! Krsna!"

 

(Ohe Vaisnava Thakura by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura)

[krsna 3]

Initiation

 

~March 24, 1968

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada has decided it is time to initiate his new disciple, who has been living at the Radha-Krishna Temple in San Francisco for a month. It would be at the dawn of Spring, on the morning of Easter Sunday, that Vishnujana das would appear in this world...

 

On returning to the temple from his morning walk around Stowe Lake, Srila Prabhupada enters the small storefronts double doors amid the excitement of the devotees, busily completing the final arrangements for the initiation cermony. Srila Prabhupada walks to the rear of the temple room and offers obeisances at the altar of Lord Jagannatha. He then walks to the cushioned seat which has been arranged before a raised mound of earth where the fire sacrifice will take place. Sitting in a meditative mood, Srila Prabhupada begins to play his kartalas, singing prayers to the maha-disciplic succesion of Lord Chaitanya.

 

After chanting, Srila Prabhupada gives a potent lecture about spiritual qualification. A nod from Srila Prabhupada, and the new initiate approaches him respectfully. After chanting on japa beads and reciting the regulations of initiation, Prabhupada hands the beads, saying, "Your name is Vishnujana dasa. 'Vishnujana' means 'one who serves the devotees of the Lord'. Hare Krishna."

 

Everyone in the temple cheers as the new Vaishnava accepts his beads and offers obeisances to his eternal spiritual master. Srila Prabhupada begins the fire sacrafice, formalizing the rites of initiation. As he continues ladling the ghee, the small flame quickly turns into a fiery blaze.

[Guest guest]

Hare krisna Prabhu,

 

***kailasa your message sounds ritvik

 

No ritvik, needs guru. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

***and you mean to blaspheme the sampradaya of srila prabhupada

 

Srila Prabhupada do not appoint "acarya". SBST do not appoint "acarya".

 

***two maha aparadhas..

 

No any aparadha. I am give sastra.

 

***very professional

 

pls yours arguments.

[Guest guest]

Prabhupada guru for all gurus. Monkey it is first "works" body, then person take perfect body Goloka. Monkey for dirty works. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

It is not so good write about Prabhupada "monkey".