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Shiva and Krsna

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Haridham

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Why is it that many people consider shiva to be supreme when everywhere in the vedas it is krsna is the supreme. Is it because Lord Shiva is Asutosh(easily pleased). Also i have heard that in the Shiva purana it is stated that Lord Shiva is supreme.Ofcourse in the Ganesh Purana has stated that Ganesh is supreme.

 

Now ofcourse there are 18 puranas which are divided into 6 catagoris according to the gunas. Six in Tama guna, six in Raja guna and six in satva guna. The srimad bhagavatam and bhagavat gita are in Satva guna. Maybe people should try reading them.

 

Each of the Puranas claim that their perticular diety is supreme so people in those gunas can observe what they can while being in that guna and not go to higher dieties because it might be disruptive.

 

Am I correct or incorrect.

 

Let me know.

 

hare krsna.

 

Hari Dham

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Hare Krishna,

 

I have the same problem - I feel torn between worshipping Lord Shiva and Lord Krishna. I am currently watching the Shiv puran and you are rite, it does lead one to believe that Shiva is supreme to whom even Lord Vishnu bows down to. I would like to have this clarified too as my heart is with Krsna but am confused over whether I should be worshipping Shiva if he is the supreme one.

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Hare Krishna and dandavats

 

In addition to the categorization of puraanas as sattvic/rajasic/tamasic in Padma puraana and that the conclusions of sattvic puraanas should be considered correct, it also mentions four sampradayas as authentic all of which are vaishnava. There was a nice post sometime back, which showed the contradiction in the tamasic puraanas as to who killed Lord Nrsimha, which showed that their conclusions should not be accepted as authority (especially when sattvic puraanas state a contrary position) but are meant for persons with predominantly tamasic nature.

Above all we have the authority of Lord Chaitanya and other Spiritual Masters starting from Him which assert this.

 

May i suggest you to read Srila Prabhupada's books and then make up your mind. The greatest difference in the authorized sampradayas and others is that if you read other writings they may be full of nice flowery language but without references to authority; the vaishnava acharyas always substantiate any philosophical point with reference to Vedic and other authorized texts.

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Prabhu don't know who you are but I could tell you I was in exact same situation. Its like my mind was going in all directions. After a long time I realized {bit hard to put into words for me without expressing myself} anyway..

 

When I thought Shiva was Supreme I had this kind of hatred for Krishna in my mind. I could feel it coming into my brain. Kind of not liking Vaishnava's. This was after a devotee came to my house from Rudra Sampradaya, he gave me some beads to chant {not diskya}. I realized that people are attracted to Shiva not because of His Supremacy but because of his kindness. So the devotee who came to my house killed this misconception which was going to come into my brain in the future I am sure. Plus I had benefit of eating his Maha-Maha-prasadam. This I do believe brought me to my Diksya Gurudeva. So you see I needed the blessings of a devotee of Lord Shiva. Lord Shiva is very kind.

 

Lord Shiva I now believe holds special position. Unfortunality people misunderstand His power for Supremacy. He is dear devotee of Krishna. Serve Lord Shiva to serve Krishna, thats best way.

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Thank you for your reply and the websites. But I would like to have clarified why one would serve Lord SHiva to serve Lord Krsna - why not just serve Lord Krsna (e.g. by chanting of Maha Mantra, Krishna puja, etc)? But your response has made me feel alot more confident in chanting both mantras that I feel very comfortable with which are the Maha Mantra and OM NAMAH SHIVA. Am I rite in gathering from your reply, that Lord Krsna is our ultimate supreme goal of worship though? Thats what I want clarified too

 

Thank you for your help,

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But I promised I would chant Om Namah Sivaya as service. So I should finish this. But because I chant Maha-mantra there's actually no need to chant Om Namah Sivaya. Maha-mantra is prayer to Krishna. Om Namah Sivaya is prayer to Lord Shiva. So its a devotee mantra but maybe people do ask for gains {material and spiritual}. Right now goal is to understand Shiva and Krishna. I'd like to warn you while giving up any mantra you mind will react. Maybe do it slow.

 

Pray to Lord Shiva ask that you may gain furtherness in chanting Maha-mantra. {and don't forget the main person Lord Nityananda}. The basic translation of Om Namah Sivaya is 'I offer my respectful obeiences to Shiv'. {very staut devotee}. You can feel what respect he demands. Thats mark of a devotee.

 

Goal is to serve devotees. Then you can get Krishna.

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Hello,

 

I was reading into the website you attached and find the second offence contradicting: "Similarly, to think the names of demigods such as Lord give to be as good as the name of Lord Visnu-or in other words, to think Lord Siva and the other demigods to be other forms of God and therefore equal to Visnu-is also blasphemous. This is the second offense at the lotus feet of the Lord. " I was taught that the trinity (Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh) do have different roles but are equal. Please clarify especially as I do not understand why Lord Shiva is being stated as being a demigod!

 

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One must follow in the footsteps of great authorities like Brahma, Siva, Narada, Manu, the Kumaras, Kapila, Prahlada, Bhishma, Sukadeva Gosvami, Yamaraja, Janaka, and Bali Maharaja. By mental speculation one cannot ascertain what is religion or self-realization.

__ http://bhagavadgitaasitis.com/4/16/en1 {Purport extract}

 

Demi-God means not Supreme God. Shiva and Krsna are same in the sense they always think of one another, but this is reffering to Sada-siva not Shambu. Sada-siva is in Vaikuntha-loka who is same as Four-handed Vishnu. But Shambu is devotee in this World. I am not quite sure how you can say or make comparrsion because a devotee for us is better than God, because devotee takes you to God. Though Even then becauses devotees are always in love with God you can't think of them as seperate just as:

 

 

In the Vaikuntha planets the land, the trees, the fruits and flowers and the cows -- everything -- is completely spiritual and personal. The trees are desire trees. On this material planet the trees can produce fruits and flowers according to the order of material energy, but in the Vaikuntha planets the trees, the land, the residents and the animals are all spiritual. There is no difference between the tree and the animal or the animal and the man. Here the word murtimat indicates that everything has a spiritual form. Formlessness, as conceived by the impersonalists, is refuted in this verse; in the Vaikuntha planets, although everything is spiritual, everything has a particular form. The trees and the men have form, and because all of them, although differently formed, are spiritual, there is no difference between them.

__ http://srimadbhagavatam.com/3/15/16/en1 {Purport}

 

Form being key word. I hope that answers anything else let me know

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Hare Krishna and dandavats

 

"I was taught that the trinity (Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh) do have different roles but are equal. Please clarify especially as I do not understand why Lord Shiva is being stated as being a demigod!"

Where did you get this teaching from -- partial truth is most dangerous. The trinity are similiar *only* when we consider them as guna-avataars (i.e. saatvic, rajasic and tamasic) of Krishna, but if you consider the svarup (or true nature) of them then Kshirodakshayi-Vishnu is an expansion of Krishna, Shiva is between jiva-tattva and vishnu-tattva and Brahma is mostly jiva. Regarding the nature of Lord Shiva the following is stated in Brahma-Samhita "I adore the Primaeval Lord Govinda, Who transforms Himself as Sambhu for performing the work of destruction, just as milk is transformed into curd which is neither the same as, nor different from, milk". Lord Shiva is compared to yogurt which is milk transformed, but yogurt cannot transform to milk. Lord Brahma and Lord Shiva are demi-gods meaning they are subserviant to the Supreme Lord but the concept of some that all dieties (e.g. Durga, Ganesh ...) are on the same level i.e. that of Supreme Lord, is only an imagination and finds no support in Vedic texts.

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Thank you for your clarifications. I no longer feel confused re the Krsna and Shiva relationships/comparisons and am comfortable that my adoration of Lord Krishna is where the devotions should be focused as my ultimate goal of liberation

 

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Shiva's position is given in the conclusion of the highest purana. The Amala(spotless) purana.

 

 

nimna-gānāḿ yathā gańgā

 

devānām acyuto yathā

 

vaiṣṇavānāḿ yathā śambhuḥ

 

purāṇānām idam tathā

 

 

Just as the Gańgā is the greatest of all rivers, Lord Acyuta the supreme among deities and Lord Śambhu [Śiva] the greatest of Vaiṣṇavas, so Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the greatest of all Purāṇas.

 

Hare Krsna

 

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that didnt come out right. Here it is again.

 

Nimna-ganam-yatha ganga

devanam-acyuto-yatha

vaisnavanam-yatho-shambu

puranam-idam-tatha

 

Just as the the ganga is the greatest of all rivers, Lord Acutya the Supreme among deities and Lord Shambu(shiva) the greatest vaisnavas, so the Srimad Bhagavatam is the greatest of all puranas.

 

12-13-16

 

Hare Krsna

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Please excuse me if this is a silly question but who is "Lord Acutya"?

 

Thank you for the information as it helps me to focus my worship on Krishna especially as I was feeling torn between Shiva and Krishna which is why I posted my concern in the first place, to hope that someone out there will be able to respond to the question marks in my mind.

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Based on the response, which Mantra therefore should be practiced? Aum Namah Shivaya or Krishna MahaMantra both of which I feel drawn to but at same time feel I should choose one to specifically focus my energies on

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Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu appears as Avatar the prolusion of the Hare Krsna mantra, as in previous ages other mantras were sufficiently recommended, soooooo Hare Nama Hare Nama Hare Namam Eva kevalam etc.

 

This will give greater results.

 

Chant on friend

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  • 2 weeks later...

If you can read Chaintanya Charitamrta by Srila prabhupada, you will get clear point. There is explained very well that Krsna is supreme. All of them are Krsna devote, Krsna is devote of love. when you chant and serve krsna, you will be free from material desires, he will not ask to bag Vardan, he knows what to give, to go back to Krsna.

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Everyone should understand the fact at there is only one God. He neither has a form nor has a name. It is because human's limited capacity, he gives names and forms and various other attributies to worships them. Our greatest foolishness is so many of us see God as a super-HUMAN because we don't know what real GOD is. We keep making our own images, giving them names, etc and amuse ourselves. The best thing that we can do it pray to whichever god we like and not make any judgements on who is greater than whom. There is no end to it. In doing so, we are trying to satisfy only or petty selves and not the real SELF.

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Being a human, our tendency is to see diversity. Why should diversify God and drag him to our level. There is only one god. Call him shiva, vishnu or by any other name. Being infinite he can understand, by whichever name you call. So why this hue and cry about who is greater? We will never progress in our spiritual path as long as we see diversity. It is upto every human to decide.

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  • 7 months later...
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it is really v difficult situation but shiva bhakats can always pray to lord krishna also ,as we offer respect to our mother and father and both the parents dont mind it.i hope now all of you are clear for once and for all

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'Caitanya Bhagavata' by Vrndavana dasa Thakura (Antya Lila - chapter 4)

 

'Lord Krsna Himself says that how can any person worship Him and not worship Siva?.

How can one develop love for Krsna if he disregards Lord Siva who is so dear to Lord Krsna.

In the Srimad Bhagavatam it says "How can anyone render devotional service to Me without

worshipping My dear devotee Siva in the proper devotional mood. A person who does not

respect Siva is envious of the Vaisnavas and is a sinful reprobate."

Again, in the Skanda Purana it says "First one should worship Lord Krsna, the cause of all

causes, and then worship the best of the demigods, Lord Siva. Then all the other demigods

should be worshiped with great faith and devotion."

Sri Advaita Arcarya is accepted by the saintly personalities as Siva himself. This is so

because Lord Caitanya gave sufficient indications to establish this truth.'

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