Homosexuality with Vaishnava theology is a direct offense to Srila Prabhupada

[Guest guest]

Dispelling Homophobia

 

BY YUGALA KISHOR DASA

 

— We were aghast after briefly reading the article titled "India's Slow Descent into Homophobia".

 

The term "Gay Vaishnava" is the epitome of an oxymoron. It is strikingly 108% oxymoronic.

 

The Shastras sanctions the union of husband and wife in religious marriage, and even accommodates them into an ashrama; the grhastha asrama, for the sole purpose of spiritual advancement, so that they don't live like cats and dogs. Why is this so? Perhaps, it has to do with the universal fact that - unlike homosexuality - the religious union of husband and wife has the natural purpose of procreation. This faculty of procreation is a divinely appointed function; since it is devised by the devatas, specifically Lord Brahma. No where in the Scriptures we see that there exists such a similar arrangement to accommodate homosexuality.

 

The fairly recent pomp about homosexuality - by the media - is an attempt by unscrupulous people, stemmed from certain academic circles, to misdirect the general public. Secular society (what we would call in ISKCON, the mleccha society) is increasingly plagued with the maladies such as the degradation of the individual, the breakdown of the family (kula kshaya), the corruption of social institutions, including the media and intelligentsia, the departure from basic moral or ethical values; in summary, the decay of society in general (kula dharma). Thus, the glorification in recent years of homosexuality in the media - websites, newspapers, TV, etc. - is a byproduct of the humanistic agenda which assiduously disregards basic religious principles, let alone Vaishnava or even Vedic ethics.

 

Some may argue that we in ISKCON have to catch up with the times, and since there is a increasing attention of the media on homosexuality, we need to do the same. But many of us do vehemently disagree. We mainly do not agree because spiritual values - as outlined in Srila Prabhupada's teachings, his writings and his exemplary behavior - are not part of an antediluvian civilization. Vedic civilization and the principles it conveys, may be old, when viewed from the standpoint of linear-historical time; however, they are transcendental, and, hence entirely apposite; they are fully applicable at any time and in any place. Their salient relevance is guaranteed by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The fact that certain sectors of contemporary secular society may focus their attention on the cheap glorification of homosexuality does not mean that the rest of society goes along with it; and this is also true for ISKCON society.

 

In a sense, homosexuality - along with divorce, getting involved with other men's wives, defilement of women - is a form of illicit sex, although more blatant and vulgar than the other ones. The fact that these forms of illicit sex may now be practiced within ISKCON, by some weak and insincere individuals, does not mean that the whole body of Vaishnavas condone them.

 

By giving editorial space, in "Vaishnava-friendly" media, to such bagatelle as homosexuality, we are copycatting what the secular media is doing. Emulating the mleccha society is obviously not Srila Prabhupada's mission. Tout au contraire, we are supposed to bring about a revolution in their impious lives. To accomplish this revolution, our character and integrity as individuals, the moral standing of our institutions and organizations, ought to shine forth the principles of Vaishnava ethics, morality, philosophy and theology.

 

So, in every sense, we are not homophobes; we are serious about defending Srila Prabhupada's mission and his institution. The doors of Prabhupada's mission are not closed to Amara dasa or any homosexuals in general. We are all welcome. But once we are in, we are expected to honor the commitments and vows as requested by the parampara, via Srila Prabhupada. We are to take the stand of perfect gentlemen. Giving up all forms of illicit sex is not only compulsory to be part of Srila Prabhupada's mission, but to advance in spiritual realization, it is mandatory.

 

In the final analysis, the fruitless attempt to relate homosexuality with Vaishnava theology is an attempt to taint Vaishnavism, in general, and Srila Prabhupada's movement, in particular. It is a direct offense to Srila Prabhupada, to the parampara, and to the legacy that they have handed down to us.

 

Yours in the service of Srila Prabhupada,

 

Yugala Kishor dasa

Gainesville, Florida

[Guest guest]

i have read many of these "anti - galva" messages in various sites and forums

 

they are simply offensive to a devotee , amara dasa, who is depicting vedic culture as it is, really not sectarian and with a place for everyone in the purpose of serving the supreme personality of godhead

 

many devotees use srila prabhupada's quotations or vedic quotations as a backup for their sectarism and fanaticism...: " prabhupada says rascal...... then i say rascal"

 

first became mercyful and pure as srila prabhupada, then your "rascal" will sound as a music in vaishnava's ears

 

.

 

.

 

of course homosexuality is condemned in vedic/vaishnava culture, it is considered a big anartha, but the confusion in the male-female roles starts when our wife goes to work outside

 

my wife is the owner of the house i am living in, she has a job, she earns a little more than me

 

she was the one who pushed me, also when we had to take initiation

 

in strict terms he's sometimes protecting me, so, in vedic terms, she's sometimes THE MAN....... genitals have not all this importance

 

homosexuality or confusion of roles.. starts from here

[Guest guest]

Man is women

women is man

 

I guess on the liberated platform

 

things are much different :

 

where Krishna is the Supreme purusa

 

and we are all His tiny dasis

[Guest guest]

excess is not allowed /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

(you imagine goloka as a desert with only krsna and an unlimited number of girls in saree?..... naah /images/graemlins/smile.gif)

[Guest guest]

when you say aham brahma asmi, you are not the body.

so you are not man or woman.

 

but you - the soul- have taken a body of male or female.

 

one's duty is to produce god conscious children that one can afford to raise. to do so there is marrige institution. (only animals reproduce without a marriage.)

 

now, if a marriage cannot produce children, then such marrige is useless and no such marriage should take place if it is known in advance that procration is not possible.

 

jai sri krishna!

 

[Guest guest]

Yes,i agree this is the way of truly enlightened civilization,

where human life is held to be sacred

in the procreative act

inside the limits of a marriage institution.

 

The laws of God are meant for the welfare of humanity

progressing towards daivi varnasrama culture.

[theist 1]

This whole controversy is simply maya causing problems and factions within the vaisnava community. It is not just in Iskcon but various Christian sects are undergoing the same attack.

 

Some have decided that being a homosexual is some identity they want to hang on to for awhile. Accepting them as spiritsoul is not enough so they are engaged in a campaign of dis-information to gain acceptablity even if it means underminding Prabhupada's clear teachings on the subject.

[stonehearted 0]

theist: Some have decided that being a homosexual is some identity they want to hang on to for awhile. Accepting them as spiritsoul is not enough so they are engaged in a campaign of dis-information to gain acceptablity even if it means underminding Prabhupada's clear teachings on the subject.

 

Closer to the truth is that some have found that being homosexual is profound enough a part of their identity that just ignoring it without sufficient spiritual advancement doesn't always work. Everyone I know connected with GALVA is either celibate or has that as part of their goal. Their desire is to make spiritual progress. No one I know has as a goal changing the principles of spiritual life. Actually, their goals are less ambitious than that. They just want to call attention to the fact that even gay people aspire to become Krishna conscious; however, even when they are submissive to the direction of the spiritual master (this doesn't necessarily mean following perfectly, any more than it does for you or me), other aspiring devotees don't always treat them as spirit soul. Rather, they treat them as some sort of pariah. That's not always the case, of course. But we know of such instances. I know, for example, of a devotee who lives on Oahu who has been celibate for decades. Over the last I-don't-know-how-many years, he has regularly done Deity service and given classes at the Honolulu temple. Fairly recently, though, some deovtees have caused trouble for him, vocally refusing to attend an arati where he's the pujari, and vocally refusing to attend a class he gives. There's no way to justify such behavior.

 

As far as some of the articles on GALVA's site goes, those that seem to go a long way to explain the place of "third-gender" people in traditional Indian culture, I will not be baited into attacking or defending them. I don't really know enough about traditional Indian culture to make a valid judgment of the validity of any of the claims they make. I think many of them go further than I might to make their case, but since it's not my fight, it's not my call.

 

In Bhagavad-gita, Krishna says that those who are wise see equally brahmanas, cows, elephants, dogs and dog-eaters (5.18). He further asserts that best of yogis see the pain and pleasure of others as if they were their own (6.32). Srila Prabhupada also often cited a verse from Chanakya: matrivat para-dareshu, para-dravyani loshtavat, atmavat sarva-bhuteshu, yah pashyati sah panditah. "Those who are wise see women other than their own wives as mother [i.e., not mine--they don't identify with them], other's property as if it were garbage in the street [i.e., not mine to enjoy--they don't identify with it], but they see others' suffering as if it were their own [i.e., they do identify with it]. This identity with the suffering of others is part and parcel of vaishnava compassion.

 

Such equal vision doesn't necessarily mean you behave the same with everyone. We're less likely to invite a cow or an elephant in for Bhagavad-gita discussion than a brahmana or a dog-eater. And we may not want to associate closely with someone who strays from accepted behavior. But, because we can identify with someone who has trouble with intoxication or associating with the opposite sex, we tend to be more tolerant. But if someone we know has trouble with sex desire, and their mind is made in such a way that they're attracted to those of the same sex, we see them as abominable, untouchable, fit only to be cast aside. The truth is that it's the same problem--desire to explit the material energy for sensual pleasure--and the differences are merely superficial.

 

In fact, whatever differences we find with others are merely upadhis, material designations, and are temporary and superficial. What's profound is what we have in common, especially with other devotees. If we relate to others, especially other devotees of Krishna, based to any large degree on the idea that I'm a man and you're a woman, I'm white and you're black, I'm mature and you're young, I'm liberal and you're conservative, I'm an ISKCON devotee and you're a Gaudiya Math devotee, I'm straight and you're gay, we will never get far beyond base material consciousness, no matter how we dress it up. Truly progressive devotees must develop a dynamic, progressive vision and a dynamic, progressive program for advancing in loving Krishna. All the other stuff, including the entire cosmos, is ephemeral and ultimately has no value.

 

I apologize for the length of this reply. As usual, my real message is that we become careful thinkers, more introspective, and that we not willfully misread what others write just because we think we're supposed to disapprove of them. My message is not that anyone who doesn't see things my way is a creep, a demon, or out to undo everything our guru-varga has given us.

[yasodanandana 0]

your message is the sign of your big advancement in the spiritual path.. please accept my most respectiful obeisances

[stonehearted 0]

You're very kind, Yashodanandana prabhu, and that's natural because you're a devotee. However, the truth is that if there's anything of substance in my posts, it's due entirely to the mercy of Srila Prabhupada and the other devotees who have been kind enough not to eject me from the company of devotees. There have at times been some who were clear in their opinion that I had no business among them.

 

I want to emphasize, though, that my post was not meant to put down theist or Yugal Kishore, or any of the devotees who object to GALVA's goals, as they understand them. I intend only to share my understanding of these devotees' goals. theist and I know that, although we agree completely about the bottom line (and Amara and other GALVA members I know do also), we disagree about some intermediate details regarding how to deal with those who are vocal about the emotional pain they experience when devotees are reluctant to accept them. We will continue to disagree on this one topic (and probably some mundane political perspectives as well) with confidence that our mutual respect will remain intact (even if we have to occasionally apologize to each other when things get a little sparky).

 

I also sonetimes feel the need to point out that, if my posts sometimes strike others as somewhat didactic, it's because I've been a teacher for a long time--and also because it's sometimes hard for even someone as clever as I seem to think I am to hide his natural arrogance.

[theist 1]

 

Closer to the truth is that some have found that being homosexual is profound enough a part of their identity that just ignoring it without sufficient spiritual advancement doesn't always work.

 

 

What is the surprise. That is true of everyone. We are all trying to get past our false identity problem. Everyone has some problem. Some who don't consistently chant 16 rounds, or keep up the sadhana in other ways find it best for the group as a whole to simply drop the external vaisnava markings so as not to cause confusion.

 

This seems more rational then demanding the religious society change its core structure to give some so-called acceptance to the individuals problem.

 

 

 

Everyone I know connected with GALVA is either celibate or has that as part of their goal. Their desire is to make spiritual progress.

 

 

That is nice. Chant Hare Krsna and one makes progress. They are bringing up the issue of homo marriages now for Iskcon. See the recent article on Chakra. They should be applying that effort to their own internal change.

 

 

 

No one I know has as a goal changing the principles of spiritual life. Actually, their goals are less ambitious than that. They just want to call attention to the fact that even gay people aspire to become Krishna conscious; however, even when they are submissive to the direction of the spiritual master (this doesn't necessarily mean following perfectly, any more than it does for you or me), other aspiring devotees don't always treat them as spirit soul.

 

 

Aw, poor babies. Guess what, no one is really seeing others as spiritsoul.No one at these temples sees me as a spiritsoul either. You are not seen as a spiritsoul either. We are not seeing ourselves as spiritsoul. Most of us are in the learning phase. And that will always be the majority. So if Iskcon starts conducting weddings for homos then that means everyone is now seeing them as spiritsouls? Nonsense.

 

The ONLY solution is for respect to be shown to everyone who comes to a temple. That also means those that come to the temple should not flaunt themselves in anyway. No gal_a t-shirts, no playboy t-shirts, women and men should be modest and concentrate on Radha/Krsna.

 

 

 

Rather, they treat them as some sort of pariah. That's not always the case, of course. But we know of such instances. I know, for example, of a devotee who lives on Oahu who has been celibate for decades. Over the last I-don't-know-how-many years, he has regularly done Deity service and given classes at the Honolulu temple. Fairly recently, though, some deovtees have caused trouble for him, vocally refusing to attend an arati where he's the pujari, and vocally refusing to attend a class he gives. There's no way to justify such behavior.

 

 

"fairly recently". That's my point. They are causing a disturbance to the other vaisnavas. "fairly recently". No problem before so what is it they complaining about?

 

People don't want this thrown up in their face. The world is filled with disturbance. People enter temple life to try and get past these dumb games and it is a form of violence to bring them in and disturb the ashram atmosphere.

 

Their rejection will only grow. Not because they have a homo past or some lingering tendancies, but because they homo activists. Just look at what is happening presently in the Episcopalian church. They voted to allow a homo bishop for the first time. And now the more conservative members are talking of splintering away.

 

These activists are some of the more selfish people I have heard of. The one solid philosphy that contains the solution to EVERY problem faced by man and they feel they have to make their mark on it.

 

If I was in charge every member of gal_a would be forbidden from coming to the temple until they renounced their gay activism. Thes people are working to destroy Iskcon from within.

 

Sad to see.

 

They wouldn't try this _hit if they thought Prabhupada was here. Well he is, I feel, his disciples are here, so I know he checks in on them, to guide their continued progress.

 

What an insult to him.

 

Vaisnavism and homo activism don't mix.

 

[Guest guest]

Haribol, good point, holding on to false identity is the problem here, but If one says such, they are accused of hate crimes against the homos.

 

I always liked what my bro sudama said about the issue. (He was a homo, BTW). When discussing his sexual preference, he clearly joked that he was a perverted reflection of a perverted reflection of what actual love is all about.

 

Separate the issues here. To actively promote any kind of sexuality, homo or hetero, has nothing to do with reality of spiritual life. When Jesus was asked about such things, he deferred, saying that neither sex is represented in the spiritual world, just angels in heaven, and vaisnava theology confirms this. There is but one Male (purusa) and all the rest are female (prakrti, sakti, etc).

 

Galva just wants to have ability for men to wear saris, and act like gopis, without discrimination. Okay wear whatever, just keep your privates private.

 

ys mahak

[Guest guest]

Yes this is the fact

Homosexuality is a perversion of a perversion

So let us just deal with the actual perversion according to vedic culture,i.e. marriage between a man and a women,etc

 

 

--------------------------------

 

a perverted reflection of a perverted reflection of what actual love is all about.

 

--------

[Guest guest]

a little subtlety is required....

 

vedic homosexual weddings

 

or kicks in the ass

 

nothing in the middle

 

mmh!!

[Priitaa 0]

The fact is, Prabhupada did initiate homosexuals, knowingly in many cases.

 

The fact is, he expected homosexuals to give up their activities and follow the 4 regulative principles.

 

The fact is, too many straight devotees have put down homosexuals to such a point that many of them have felt unwelcomed, depressed, and returned to their homosexual behavior.

 

The fact is, most straight householders do not want a homosexual couple living next door to them while they are raising their children, and they should not have to.

 

The fact is, many devotees who are gay or lesbian want to make a third gender acceptable, and there is no where such a thing can be found in shastra OR any exception made by Srila Prabhupada.

 

 

If all these points (and many others) were taken into consideration and worked out consciously, many homophobics may not be homophobic. We have a lot to straighten out with this issue, but in the beginning it was not complicated because like eveyrone else, Prabhupada expected them to strictly follow the 4 regulative principles, chant 16 rounds, etc. How many straight devotees do that anymore? (Some, but no where near what it was.) Yet we expect homosexuals to keep it togehter when we cant. So first lets fix the boat before we criticize the passengers.

 

And lets be honest. A (real) homosexual has a BROKEN body, something both sides may get mad at me for, but a few may see my point. Like it or dislike it, such a body does not and cannot preform the way a normal body would. (Yes, I said normal.) We have no problem accepting the person in a wheel chair, and while I agree that acceptance of gay devotess should and MUST include they take the humble position and stop trying, as a couple, to camp near us and therefore our children at a devotee outting -- or trying to achieve a goal to make homosexual marriage acceptable within ISKCON -- or essentially trying to make their sexual preference normal and acceptable, something NO ONE who was gay did when Prabhupada was here), if they can come to that point, and heterosexuals can feel their kids are less likely to be contaminted by this so called 'choice' of which gender they will marry when they grow up, etc., etc, maybe 'then' this can get cleared up. But due to such strong prejudices on BOTH sides, I dont see it happening any time soon.

 

Though I have to agree, homosexuals are holding on to a false identity, and doing so as strongly as possible.

 

I also agree, if Prabhupada were here, they wouldn't even try this! Though if Prabhupada were here, there would be a place for them, yet properly. We all need to sit down and straighten things out, put them back the way Prabhupada had them.

 

YS,

Prtha dd

[Guest guest]

 

 

There are no homosexuals in Goloka Vrndavana

 

Let us us finish this unpalatable topic please

 

May it R.I.P.

[stonehearted 0]

theist: That is nice. Chant Hare Krsna and one makes progress. They are bringing up the issue of homo marriages now for Iskcon. See the recent article on Chakra. They should be applying that effort to their own internal change.

 

Babhru: In fact, many of them are applying such effort to "their own internal change" simultaneously. I'm not sure which Chakra article you refer to. Are you referring to Ananda's article? (As far as I know, Ananda is not a member of GALVA, nor is he gay.) I won't attempt to defend this since I have a different opinion. However, all they're doing is writing articles, and in doing so, they knowingly submit their ideas to the marketplace of ideas, knowing they'll be argued against, and that many of their arguments will be rejected. And knowing that many of us will revile them for doing so.

 

t: Aw, poor babies. Guess what, no one is really seeing others as spiritsoul.No one at these temples sees me as a spiritsoul either.

 

B: This is an expression of a lack of precisely the empathy Krishna glorifies in Bg. 6.32. I think it may be an overgeneralization to say that no one at these temples sees you as spirit soul. This may be a case of the flaw called atmavan manyate jagat, or projecting our own faults on others. I think there's a really good chance that someone does see you as spirit soul. I know what it's like to be discriminated against for a cirumstance outside my control. In 1973 a temple president railed at me for almost two hours just because I'm from Hawaii. His claim was, "You are not one of us. You are not ISKCON." Why? Because I joined the movement in Hawaii. He was sure that whenever I spoke about Srila Prabhupada I was really thinking of Siddhasvarupa, who he considered some sort of demon. The fact was, this guy apparently had no idea who I was, seemed unaware that I joined the Honolulu temple almost a year before Siddha joined ISKCON, and that he was my friend, not my guru. But it didn't matter to him. Nothing I said could change his mind. So it may be easier for me to identify with some of the devotees you would ban than it is for others.

 

t: The ONLY solution is for respect to be shown to everyone who comes to a temple. That also means those that come to the temple should not flaunt themselves in anyway. No gal_a t-shirts, no playboy t-shirts, women and men should be modest and concentrate on Radha/Krsna.

 

B: I don't have problem with that. Have you seen GALVA t-shirts, or are you making that up? In fact, Amara was here on the Big Island for our Rathayatra. He wore a kurta and dhoti and behaved as a perfect gentleman. If you didn't know who he was, it probably wouldn't even cross your mind that he was gay, much less a "gay activist."

 

t: "fairly recently". That's my point. They are causing a disturbance to the other vaisnavas. "fairly recently". No problem before so what is it they complaining about?

 

B: It's not accurate to say that he had no problem before. Perhaps I should have said "even fairly recently." And this man does nothing outwardly to cause any disturbance except to have mannerisms that many interpret as feminine, which can't be helped. I've known him since the late '70s and he has never been anything in his conduct other than a perfect gentleman.

 

t: If I was in charge every member of gal_a would be forbidden from coming to the temple until they renounced their gay activism. Thes people are working to destroy Iskcon from within.

 

B: Well, this is a popular tactic in ISKCON. I think it may be appropriate to ban someone for repeatedly causing a disturbance at the temple, but not for holding views not sanctioned by the GBC. This happens with followers of Narayana Maharaja. Some devotees who like him are allowed to come as long as they nver mention his name. In one temple I've seen them forced to sign letters agreeing never to talk of him or criticize any ISKCON leader. Otherwise, the temple leaders physically push them off the property, even have them roughed up a little. The same with ritviks. I know personally of one GBC man who approached a ritvik advocate every time he came to the temple and warned him against any ritvik funny business. This guy had never spoken out in favor of the ritvik idea at the temple, and every time this happened he'd come to me and ask why the GBC hassled him like this. Eventually, this GBC man physically shoved the other devotee out of the temple. So you may find support among ISCKON's leaders for banning GALVA members rather than acutally talking with them.

 

You're right that they probably wouldn't be so vocal in Srila Prabhupada's presence, but as Pritha says, they wouldn't be pushed around as they have in Srila Prabhupada's presence, either. He would make the concerned parties sit down and talk the problems out, perhaps even with him in the room.

 

Edited by rockheaded to acknowledge Ananda's article on gay marriage

[stonehearted 0]

Mahak: holding on to false identity is the problem here, but If one says such, they are accused of hate crimes against the homos.

 

Babhru: I think that's overstating the case. In fact, most of the GALVA members I know also advocate giving up all false identity. And I haven't actually seen anyone accused of hate crimes for simply quoting Rupa Gosvami.

 

M: I always liked what my bro sudama said about the issue. (He was a homo, BTW). When discussing his sexual preference, he clearly joked that he was a perverted reflection of a perverted reflection of what actual love is all about.

 

B: And he wasn't alone. I was good friends with Sudama over many years, and he was honest about his position. I also knew him well enough to know that it hurt when he was treated like _hit when weakness overcame him. My friend Upendra was also honest (he told me once he had impure thoughts about me). And I know it hurt him, too, when devotees related to him as gay rather than as a devotee. We all struggle with our conditioning because we think it's profound (although it's superficial and fleeting).

 

M: To actively promote any kind of sexuality, homo or hetero, has nothing to do with reality of spiritual life.

 

B: Ditto.

 

M: Galva just wants to have ability for men to wear saris, and act like gopis, without discrimination.

 

B: I've never heard that at all, except for the one or two devotees who are conditioned to be what has come to be called transgendered. Have you? That's actually a completely different issue.

 

M: just keep your privates private.

 

B: Amen!

[stonehearted 0]

Guest: a little subtlety is required....

 

vedic homosexual weddings

 

or kicks in the ass

 

nothing in the middle

 

Babhru: Exactly! Anyone who tries to address any of the subtleties involved is open to accusations of sophistry by those on both sides.

 

[stonehearted 0]

god: Let us us finish this unpalatable topic please

 

May it R.I.P.

 

Babhru: Hmmm . . . who was it who introduced the topic? Maybe you'll think twice, dear god, before you paste things from other sites. In fact, there's no real gain from hashing this out repeatedly here. No one with any position in ISKCON even knows we're here, much less cares. And we all know very well each others' positions.

[Priitaa 0]

This topic certainly has taken off.

 

Right, no ISKCON authority reads these boards and if by chance they do, they don't give a darn.

 

Right, There are no homosexuals in Goloka Vrndavana. Nor are any heterosexuals engaging in mundane sex there. The idea is to become qualified so we all CAN get there. Prabhupada initiated homosexuals, therefore how can we even indicate he should not have? So the idea is to give up sinful activity. Realistically of course, there will be falldown, but there is a difference between falldown and making something acceptable. That is where GALVA goes wrong. They are trying to make it acceptable and change the philosophy.

 

If GALVA originated just to help those with this type of "broken body" return to devotional service, as they claim they have brought some back to chanting and such, that would be fine. But if you read between the lines, and lately not even between the lines, this is NOT their goal. Their goal is to make a third gender acceptable, to make marriage of homosexuals normal, and so on, within DEVOTEE society. That is 100% bogus and we do not see even one example of Prabhupada making such allowances.

 

Be careful not to fall for the party line of GALVA. They are good politicians and make it sound like they just want to hear, chant and go to the temple like everyone else. But they want other things too, and they are things which are contrary to Prabhupada's teacihngs.

 

Or maybe they actually mean "like" everybody else - making it acceptable. But they are not like everybody else and need to accept that theselves. While I dont believe a homosexual can change, instead of trying to change us they need to be more honestly accepting of their birth in this life, deal with it, and own their sexual preference as a problem rather than ok. From there it will be easier to work on purification.

 

And yes, the person who started this topic may need to think twice before posting such things, or expecting it to be resolved here.

 

However, Prabhupada made it simple. Everyone had to strictly follow the 4 regs meaning no illicit sex, and no homosexual was to continue homosexual activities. That was that. But now that he's not here to face, so many alterations to his pure teachings are going on in every corner, not just this one. I feel for the new devotee. Most of them are going to have a hard time uncovering what Prabhupada actually taught.

 

YS,

Prtha dd

[Priitaa 0]

Oops, I realized much of my last post may have appeared to single out the poster named "god," which was not my intent. I merely wanted to comment on the topics brought up and not the various persons who may have posted them. After all, most of us are inclined to change our minds sometimes when new, significant information presents itself. Or we may not, but no intent here to single anyone out.

 

YS,

Prtha dd

[Guest guest]

 

No more of these cut and paste articles

 

on these unsavory topics

 

from the lower depths

 

of this depraved Kali-yuga culture

[Priitaa 0]

Personally I don't mind that you posted it here if it helps to shed some honest light on the subject. It has been not talking which caused more trouble in the movement than talking has. As different devotees post different information, ultimatley what Prabhupada really wanted will be uncovered. I just don't expect any major changes as a result. Maybe over time.

[Guest guest]

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