Your Business is to Bring Your Followers to Me--Prabhupada

[Guest guest]

 

 

This is your business. It's all right they may worship you if they like you very much, that's all right. But your business is to bring them to me. You are my disciple. The duty of the disciple is to bring the devotees to the spiritual master. This is your business. Your preaching should be like this. If your preaching does not bring them to this point, then it is useless.

 

Srutakirti Dasa

 

 

February, 1975; Honolulu, Hawaii U.S.A.; Camp: ISKCON, New Navadvipa

 

After six months in India Srila Prabhupada returned to the West by way of Hawaii. He remained on Oahu at New Nabadwip for one week. It was a very eventful stay. There was a great deal of agitation at this center because of the differences between the local authorities and that of Siddhaswarupa Ananda Goswami. The complaint was that Siddha did not follow Iskcon's authority. Objections were brought to the attention of Srila Prabhupada's secretary, Paramahamsa Swami. He went to Srila Prabhupada and explained some of the difficulties that were taking place. Srila Prabhupada said, "So, bring Siddhaswarup and we will have a meeting."

 

The meeting was attended by Srila Prabhupada, Siddhaswarupa Maharaja, Paramahamsa Maharaja, Nitai prabhu, the temple president and myself. It took place in Srila Prabhupada's quarters. A pleasant breeze came through the numerous open windows in Srila Prabhupada's cheerful sun filled room. There was a skylight above Srila Prabhupada's desk. Srila Prabhupada always enjoyed his visit to New Nabadwip and this time was no exception.

 

Srila Prabhupada did not waste any time with formalities. After everyone was seated on the floor he unemotionally looked at Siddha and stated, very objectively, "So, the devotees here have some complaints against you." Siddha smiled and replied, "What is that Srila Prabhupada?" Srila Prabhupada continued, "One thing, why you do not shave your head?" Siddha answered, "If I shave my head sometimes I get a cold." Srila Prabhupada began chuckling and said, "In Hawaii, you get a cold?" Siddha replied, "Sometimes, Srila Prabhupada." Srila Prabhupada suggested, "Then you can wear a hat. Then you will not catch cold. You are a sannyasi, other people are watching. It is important that you set a good example."

 

Srila Prabhupada continued with another complaint, "Also, you do not carry your danda?" Siddha replied, "Well, they don't usually let me carry it on airplanes, so it becomes difficult to travel around with it." Srila Prabhupada countered, "We have so many sannyasis, everyone is carrying their danda. Paramahamsa, he is carrying a danda. He brings it on the plane." Siddha answered, "Well, I have had many problems trying to get my danda on the plane."

 

Srila Prabhupada calmly moved on to the next point of contention. Each issue became more serious. Srila Prabhupada said, "They say that your followers, they do not come here to see me, that they only see you. They only hear from and deal with you. They won't come here?" Siddha replied, "If they want to come, they can come." Srila Prabhupada quickly replied in a more authoritative voice, "But this is your business. It's all right they may worship you if they like you very much, that's all right. But your business is to bring them to me. You are my disciple. The duty of the disciple is to bring the devotees to the spiritual master. This is your business. Your preaching should be like this. If your preaching does not bring them to this point, then it is useless." Siddha replied, "This is probably my defect. My preaching is not so good. Therefore they are not coming. But what can I do but try to preach to them." Srila Prabhupada replied, "Well, if your preaching is insufficient, then better not to preach."

 

As things became quiet a wave of courage washed over me. To keep the conversation moving I said, "Srila Prabhupada, I have one observation." Srila Prabhupada nodded his head in approval and said, "Yes, go on." I said, "For example, this morning in the temple room Siddhaswarupa Maharaja was giving the class. He was sitting along side of your Vyasasana and one of his people came up with a fresh flower garland and placed it on Siddhaswarupa. When I saw it happen, my mind became disturbed. In my opinion the garland should have been put on you, as there was no garland on your picture on the Vyasasana. I would think that the garland should have been put on the Vyasasana first." Srila Prabhupada turned to Siddha and said, "He has a good point. That is correct. It is all right, they may have wanted to put it on you, but you should have directed them to put it on my picture."

 

Srila Prabhupada finished the discussion not belaboring any point. He straightforwardly addressed the issue of following the instructions of the spiritual master and the relationship between Guru and disciple This final point wrapped up the meeting. We all offered obeisances and left the room of our Divine guide and loving Gurudeva. The next day Siddhaswarupa Maharaja visited Srila Prabhupada. Siddhaswarup gave Srila Prabhupada a $10,000 donation that one of his followers had given to him. This demonstrated his understanding of Srila Prabhupada's instruction

 

You are the perfect transparent via media to your Guru Maharaja. You always accept service on his behalf. Because you were the perfect disciple you are completely qualified as the perfect spiritual master. You pass on the devotion and adoration of your disciples to the lotus feet of your Guru Maharaja. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Maharaja passes the fruits of your devotion to the lotus feet of his Guru Maharaja. So it goes on from Guru to Guru within the Guru paramapara up to the lotus feet of Lord Sri Krsna. I humbly pray to remain connected to your lotus feet always remembering that you are eternally my Lord and master. Except for your causeless mercy my life has no value or qualification. I beg that you allow me to eternally spread your glories. I pray to swim in the ocean of bliss that is available by remembering your eternal lila.

 

Your lowly servant, Srutakirti dasa

 

- From the Srila Prabhupada Uvaca by HG Srutakirti Dasa

 

 

[Guest guest]

Right. This is how the disciple should preach. Come to guru and take dikza. Otherwise the disciple is a pretender. This is the principle of guru parampara. If your guru departed from this world, and he was a pure devotee, but you have not attained the goal of your sadhana, you should take shelter of another pure devotee, which is in your line of bhakti.

If you think that you alone will attain bhakti sadhya, without the association of the pure devotees, than big problems will come.

 

Everything depends on sincerity.

 

krsna bhakti janma mula haya sadhu sanga

kRSNa prema janme tenho punah mukhya anga

CC Madhya 22.83

 

the root cause (janma mula) of krsna bhakti is sadhu sanga

kRSNa prema take birth (janme tenho) also through sadhu sanga (punah), and this is the pricipal limb of bhakti (mukhya anga).

 

the neophyte

[Guest guest]

 

If your guru departed from this world, and he was a pure devotee, but you have not attained the goal of your sadhana, you should take shelter of another pure devotee, which is in your line of bhakti.

If you think that you alone will attain bhakti sadhya, without the association of the pure devotees, than big problems will come.

 

 

Dear Prabhu,

 

Are you implying that the disciple loses the association of his pure devotee spiritual master when that master physically departs? Srila Prabhupada emphatically stated that he was never without the association of his guru maharaja, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada. The sincere disciple always has the association of his guru, whether the guru is physically present or not.

 

Your humble servant, Forrest

 

 

 

 

[theist 1]

I have never come across any instruction like that given by Srila Prabhupada to his disciples.

 

It will be interesting to see where neophyte goes when his gurudeva passes. Is he even now looking around surreptiously to have one picked out in advance?

 

This is the advice of one who thinks his guru is the body he sees the guru using in krishna's service.

[Guest guest]

Haribol. Never was there any subterfuge regarding the position of a GURU whose GURU was still present physically. In fact, re-initiation was never even considered after maha-samadhi. Siddha set the best example in all of these dealings, yet he was still criticized, despite Srila Prabhupada's admonisions against such envious feelings.

 

I came to him (siddha) first, while he was still ISKCON. He never usurped his subserviance, and encouraged me to do exactly as Prabhupada has taught, as described by Sruta Kirti. After Srila Prabhupada's departure, he accepted his own disciples, exactly following ettiquette as described in other formats.

 

We certainly bring our disciples to Srila Prabhupada, as Srila Prabhupada brings us to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta. No guru stands independent of Parampara. This is the litmus test of authenticity. Some tried to place themselves as unilateral authority, but many of these folks were the main decriers of those disciples who did FOLLOW.

 

Hare Krsna ys, mahaksadasa

 

PS I am unaffiliated BTW, and do not pretend to represent Siddhaswarupa, Srila Prabhupada, or any other disciple.

[Guest guest]

if you are an uttama adhikari you live in the same plane of your spiritual master even if he is disappeared from this world.... if you are kanista or madyam you need a siksa guru to ask questions about your own sadhana and spiritual service and receive answers based on time, place and circumstance..

 

in this way, if the diksa guru was a manifestation of paramatma, the siksa act as a manifestation of the diksa guru

 

if you can reveal doubts, exchange questions and answers with the murti or the picture of the departed guru like you are doing with me, then you will accept a siksa guru with the purpose of teaching to us conditioned souls

 

......

 

krsna consciousness teachs that is difficult but it is possible to find purity and perfection in some special people living in this world with us... why i read in a gaudya vaishnava sanga like this the continue attempt to minimize the concept of the living spiritual master?

[theist 1]

 

"krsna consciousness teachs that is difficult but it is possible to find purity and perfection in some special people living in this world with us... why i read in a gaudya vaishnava sanga like this the continue attempt to minimize the concept of the living spiritual master? "

 

 

You are not reading an attempt to minimize that, although that may be the your mind is translating it as you read.

 

It shows in your use of the term "living" spiritual master.

 

So many people claim they "have" a "living" guru to get siksa from. Of course they only see this person's form when he travels into their area. They may hear a lecture and maybe even get some more direct darshan for a few minutes.

 

Siksa is meant to be constant as well as general. So how do these "living" gurus spread their siksa? Through lecture transcripts over the internet, books, and tapes etc.as well as through their more advanced disciples.

 

The receipients then turn around and preach to others the absolute need to have a "living" guru (meaning his earthly body) to take siksa from.

 

Such an embarrassing contradiction but they never seem to see it. Sometimes we even see them preaching to Srila Prabhupada's disciples that their guru (SP) is now no longer "living" and so their guru(who is "living") must now be accepted in his place.

 

Extremely offensive it appears to me.

[Guest guest]

i do not expect that if you say something correct you are hiding a deviation

 

every nice thing can be turned into fanaticism, but it is not my fault

 

master means "answers and questions given according time, place and circumstance".... if we are serious and if we are not offensive, krsna will help us sending a pure devotee to give us siksa

 

if we need him to have also diksa, or because our diksa guru is in another nation or in another world, it does not make too much difference

 

we have to learn to listen, to be chastized and to be humble

.

.

if anyone uses these concept to disturb devotees in their faith for srila prabhupada it is not my fault and surely it is not my purpose

[Guest guest]

 

So many people claim they "have" a "living" guru to get siksa from. Of course they only see this person's form when he travels into their area. They may hear a lecture and maybe even get some more direct darshan for a few minutes.

 

 

Dear Theist I think you mix sadhu sanga with Sikza.

Sadhu sanga means not necessarily Sikza .

 

Look once again at Bhakti Sandharba

Sikza guru is one that out of many competent Sravana gurus

gives instructions on bhajana which is specifically suitable to the bhava of his disciple

 

atha Sravana guru bhajana Sikza guroh

prayakam ekatvam iti tathaivAha

from Bh. Sand. Ann.206

The Sravana and bhajana Sikza guru are usually the same.

 

But Sikza means necessarily sadhu sanga

 

From another forum:

 

Statement

The siksha gurus are Sri Rupa Goswami, Sri Sanatan Goswami, Sri Bhatta Raghunatha Goswami, Sri Jiva Goswami, Sri Gopal Bhatta Goswami and Srila Raghunatha das Goswami These six are my siksha gurus and therefore I offer millions of respectful obeisances unto their lotus feet. One cannot be recognized as a Gaudiya Vaishnava if he is not obediant to these six siksha gurus.

 

Answer

I remember a prayer I use to say in the morning (maybe the Sanskrit is not correct)

Vairagya yug bhakti rasam prayatnair

apayayam mam anabipsum andham

kripam budhir ya para dhuka dhuki

sanatanam tvam prabhum asrayami

Srila Sanatana Gosvami induced me to drink the nectar of bhakti rasa laced with renunciation, because he cannot accept the sufferance of others.

That is why I accept Srila Sanatana Gosvami as my Sikzsa guru.

This are the prayers of Raghunata das Gosvami.

 

Quite interesting to see the prominent quality of the Sikza guru, inducing one to drink the nectar of bhakti rasa.

And most astounding that now someone pretend as having now as his Sikza guru the six Gosvamis.

The Sikza guru (the bhajana Sikza guru), who makes one to taste bhakti rasa, comes to the sadhaka personally from that realm to give him this treasure.

 

When krsna-rati, or in other words, the sthAyibhAva

(the permanent emotion of the heart in one of the five primary relationships of sAnta, dAsya, sakhya, and so on) becomes exceedingly tasty for the devotee by virtue of the elements known as

vibhAva, anubhAva, sAttvika-bhAva and vyabhicArî-bhAva,

induced through the medium of bhajana (sravana, kirtana, and so on) it is called bhakti-rasa.

In other words, when the sthAyibhAva or krsna-rati

mixes with vibhAva, anubhAva, sAttvika-bhAva and vyabhicArîbhAva

and becomes fit to be tasted in the heart of the devotee,

it is called bhakti-rasa.

 

From your previous post I felt a very strong opposition to the association with sadhus, and some sort of frustration.

Otherwise you are very moderate, and careful to avoid harsh tones.

the neophyte

[theist 1]

 

From your previous post I felt a very strong opposition to the association with sadhus, and some sort of frustration.

Otherwise you are very moderate, and careful to avoid harsh tones.

 

 

Yes my mind(under whose spell I present am)is strongly opposed to associating with sadhu's.

 

I do get very frustrated with people denying that sadhu lives in his commentaries, when Srila Prabhupada clearly says otherwise.

 

It is frustrating when you are reading one of Prabhupada's books and someone tells that that won't help you you need REAL sadhu-sanga, infering that Prabhupada is in some dead state. Actually that more than frustrates me it infuriates me.

 

I also get frustrated in conversations where I ask someone a straight forward question which they choose to ignore and instead respond with another copy and post.

 

[Guest guest]

Oh is very simple.

Many people study the books of the six Gosvamis and Caitanya CaritamRta and Srimad Bhagavatam, and some of them get also some degree.

But they do not get bhakti. Why?

They don’t follow. What? The limbs of bhakti. In Bhakti RasAmRta Sindhu are all there:

Guru padASraya, Sri guru DikSa Sikzadi, so begins Rupa Gosvami, but they do not follow; They cannot do this, their dull brain cannot understand this.

Rupa Gosvami describes as a distinct limb of bhakti Sastra seva (serving Sastra, study, translation …), they can follow this, and this is a pious activity with eternal benefit: sukriti, but not sadhana bhakti.

And before of this Rupa Gosvami says Sravanam – hearing Sastra from bonafide pure devotee – SRNivatam sva katham kRSNa punya Sravana kirtanah.

 

And also Rupa Gosvami gives as a distinct limb of bhakti sadhu sanga.

He does not say: Oh, you should study my books and bhakti comes.

But anyway they are not interested in bhakti, they want to get only their degree.

 

What to say about the potency of the transcendental sound, uttered by the pure devotee?

Being for a while in a Birmingham temple, I had the opportunity to hear recently a story about a person invited to some festivity, where some sadhu spoke in English for western devotee. After the class someone asked him in hindi: Why did you remain here? He replayed also in hindi saying that sometimes he heard the names of Krishna and Radha, from the sadhu, and that was enough to satisfy him. What he really meant by that, I do not know.

 

The neophyte

 

 

[Guest guest]

Sravanam

 

1. If the speaker is a bonafide spiritual master

 

If you are surrendered to the speaker

Realization will come.

If you have love for the speaker

Realization will come.

If you are listening to the speaker and

Realization will not come, it means

You are not a devotee of the speaker.

 

2. If the speaker is not a bonafide spiritual master

which means that his bhakti is not ahaituki, apratihata (uninterrupted, unmotivated),

and sometime he engages in some sort of whimsical nonsense things, due to his anarthas,

how can you follow him?

 

If the person who speaks is lusty

and you are listening to him,

you will become lusty

and you will realize that.

 

A conditioned soul cannot preach.

But everybody should preach. Not preach, but assisting preaching of the bonafide spiritual master (sad guru).

One should go everywhere and give gurudeva s books and say “this is my gurudeva and my gurudeva is coming very soon, you can also come and meet him”.

In this way one tries to bring people to gurudeva, by making them understand the position of the sadhu.

 

Preaching means feeling the heart of a conditioned soul which is empty with love.

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada says brajabasi gana pratyra kadana (sanskrit maybe not ok) “ Only the brajabasi can preach” the message of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Otherwise other persons will do it only for pratiSta.

 

A drowning person cannot help another drowning person, but can say “Look, there is a boat overthere”.

 

 

the neophyte

[Guest guest]

Its been so long. How hollow it all sounds now. Prisoners of these thoughts. Stiff unforgiving ignorant thoughts.

 

Krishna Caitanya

[Guest guest]

Yes. I am bring disciple for me guru-maharaja, and me guru-maharaja bring they Srila Prabhupada.

 

"This is your business. It's all right they may worship you if they like you very much, that's all right. But your business is to bring them to me. You are my disciple. The duty of the disciple is to bring the devotees to the spiritual master. This is your business. Your preaching should be like this. If your preaching does not bring them to this point, then it is useless. "