Drink Western milk?

[theist 1]

No one is against calcium, magnesium and vit d. But let's not assume milk is the only source.

 

Best source for d is sunlight.

 

For alternative sources of calcium check out nuts and seeds here http://www.vegsoc.org/info/nutsseeds.html for some basic info.

 

Especially high are almonds, Brazil nuts, sesame and sunflower seeds.

 

Blackstrap mollases for those that tolerate sugar well.

 

Seeds and nuts ground into a powder and used in smoothies are very nutrious, high in protein,high in minerals, healthy fats ect. So many other ways also.

 

Add to soups. I grind sunflower seeds and cover my salads with them. Or you can add them to dressings.

 

Yes, I agree its important to keep a highy myelin sheath to protect the nerves. But you don't need dairy to do that.

 

I am not sure though that is what Prabhupada meant by finer tissues of the brain or not but it is valuable info.

 

Again I am not on a crusade against milk, just the slaughter of cows, which you understand.

 

All of this to maintain a body that only gives us grief. Not a good bargain.

[Guest guest]

Milk is the best way to get the nutrients we need.

 

It is very good for Infants too ...and Cow's milk is the best nutrient supplier after breast milk

 

 

To take care of our bodies is also a dharma...

 

but what is the point if that would mean to kill another helpless creature...

 

 

[I_love_krishna_ 0]

I log in but when I post it comes as guest sometimes... sorry about that...

 

I am the poster above

[Guest guest]

Interesting topic. American dairy cows are going to the slaughterhouse whether we use their milk or not. Would it not be an act of mercy to at least let these cows make an offering to Krishna before death?

At the time of my death I can only hope that, maybe, one act of service that I performed was actually genuine.

Please take the milk of the condemned and sincerely offer it to Krishna. What other hope does our mother have?

[theist 1]

Well the only real chance mother cow may have to is to come under the protection of caring people. Failing that,since it's the demand for such products of tortue and death that fuels the cow slaughter industry, we could stop demanding it ourselves.

 

I must admit I am not entirly convinced of the great benefit

that the cows are supposedly receiving. When cows are milked the milk goes into giant containers to be pasturized. Their milk is all mixed. I suppose God keeps track of what molecules came from what cows and awards some sukriti to those cows whose milk makes it to the altar. He can do anything. I'm not sure that He does however.

 

But on the same principle one would expect He would similarily track which almond came from which tree and award sukriti to the soul that lived in the almond trees.

 

I mean one could offer almond milk in place of cow's milk and no one gets slaughtered.

 

It might also be a better example to others especially those we preach cow protection to. We must live what we preach.

 

How about the male calves that get separated from their mothers at birth, stuffed in a crate so small they can't even walk around in and then after a few weeks get butchered for veal? Do they get some sukriti also?

 

Anyway, I am not trying to make up religious law. Just asking people to think about it on a personal level and then act from the heart.

[theist 1]

Veal: A Cruel Meal

 

The veal calf industry is one of the most reprehensible of all the kinds of intensive animal agriculture. Veal calves are a by-product of the dairy industry; they are "manufactured" by "milk machines"--dairy cows. Female calves are raised to be dairy cows: They are confined and fed synthetic hormones to increase growth and production and antibiotics to keep them alive in their unhealthy, unnatural environments. They are artificially inseminated and, after giving birth, are milked for several years until their production levels drop, then they are slaughtered.

 

Male calves are taken from their mothers shortly after birth. Some are slaughtered soon after birth for "bob veal." Others are raised in "open pens," a kind of minimum security prison, and even then they are sometimes chained. Most are destined for the veal crate.

 

Solitary Confinement

 

The veal crate is a wooden restraining device that is the veal calf's permanent home. It is so small (22" x 54") that the calves cannot turn around or even lie down and stretch and is the ultimate in high-profit, confinement animal agriculture.(1) Designed to prevent movement (exercise), the crate does its job of atrophying the calves' muscles, thus producing tender "gourmet" veal.

 

"Feeding" Time

 

The calves are generally fed a milk substitute intentionally lacking in iron and other essential nutrients. This diet keeps the animals anemic and creates the pale pink or white color desired in the finished product. Craving iron, the calves lick urine-saturated slats and any metallic parts of their stalls. Farmers also withhold water from the animals, who, always thirsty, are driven to drink a large quantity of the high-fat liquid feed.

 

Because of such extremely unhealthy living conditions and restricted diets, calves are susceptible to a long list of diseases, including chronic pneumonia and "scours," or constant diarrhea. Consequently, they must be given massive doses of antibiotics and other drugs just to keep them alive. (The antibiotics are passed on to consumers in the meat.) The calves often suffer from wounds caused by the constant rubbing against the crates.

 

A Fate Worse Than Death

 

About 14 weeks after their birth, the calves are slaughtered. The quality of this "food," laden with chemicals, lacking in fiber and other nutrients, diseased and processed, is another matter. The real issue is the calves' experience. During their brief lives, they never see the sun or touch the Earth. They never see or taste the grass. Their anemic bodies crave proper sustenance. Their muscles ache for freedom and exercise. They long for maternal care. They are kept in darkness except to be fed two to three times a day for 20 minutes. The calves have committed no crime, yet have been sentenced to a fate comparable to any Nazi concentration camp.

 

What You Can Do

 

To help stop veal calf abuses, don't buy or eat veal, and tell friends, relatives, and neighbors why. Tell restaurant managers about veal cruelties and ask them to remove veal from their menus. Also, don't buy or eat dairy products, because of the dairy industry's role in veal production. Ask your state legislators to sponsor bills that would prohibit the use of veal crates.

 

http://www.goveg.com/r-fact4.html

 

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What is amazing is that some devotees that buy western milk have questioned my use of carrots as using a meat product. HUH? Like I'm the butcherman. WHAT?

[Guest guest]

Your point is well taken. Krishna may not keep track of every molecule, and if people stopped using milk the slaughter would stop. But any benefit I may receive is not determined by what another devotee does in the future. It will depend on what I did. Death for each mother cow is guaranteed and her benefit may not be determined by offerings of protected cows in the future. We are all condemned on this planet and each individual act of piety is still to our benefit.

Please understand, I am not trying to be antagonistic. I am not at all impressed by vegetarianism practiced for any reason other than mercy for the innocent. I am even happy that I fed prasadam to my dog before he died. Please take no offense as none was intended.

[theist 1]

the points I was trying to make. That's all I ask. You needn't worry about my taking some kind of offence by your holding a different opinon from me. Disagreements offer at least two kinds of benefits. One is that my own convictions will become strengthened and refined or I will be shown where I was wrong. It's all good as long as we don't make offences to others in the process.

 

Hare Krsna

[Guest guest]

All good points.

I guess my motivations come from the story of the little bird whose eggs were swallowed by the sea, and she then proceeded to try and drink the ocean to retrieve them. I guess it was her faith against impossible odds that suggests the possibility even for us, sometimes being the only avenue some of us.

[Guest guest]

Yes, I also take inspiration from that story for my position.

 

We are so small. But we must still try by living up to our ideals as best we can. Like the cells in the human body. We must do our little part that has been assinged to us. When all the cells do this the human form is said to be in optimum health.

 

If none follow suit then at least we will have helped a cow or two. Krsna may still be please by our efforts. In this way the smallest can please the greatest.

 

But cow (animal) protection will never come in one great act of law from the state. It will only happen one by one, by people considering the issue and then making their own internal resolution not to take part.

[Guest guest]

I think the point I'm trying to make is not to make a milk offering for my benefit but on behalf of these unfortunate animals. Srila Prabhupada did not require pure devotion before engaging his disciples. Similarly, he did not require that alcoholism and so many other diseases be eradicated before distributing prasadam or accepting service from the unfortunates among human society who suffered these maladies.

Even the most fallen, or unfortunate, are ultimately benefitted by even the smallest service to Krishna. Maybe even a drop of milk. I am sure there are many souls out there who are very grateful that the mercy of the devotees engaged them in even the smallest ways in Krishna's service.

Thanks for reminding me of many nice memories. Hare Krishna!