"They Should Not Leave Iskcon"

[Guest guest]

Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj : "They Should Not Leave Iskcon"

 

BY RASIKANANDA DAS

 

EDITORIAL, — Dear Devotees, please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga.

 

Recently, several devotees have been putting out false propaganda in order to try to recruit followers for Srila Narayana Maharaja. As a disciple of His Holiness Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja, I feel compelled to post this text in order to clear up this misleading information.

 

The following is an excerpt from an arrival lecture given in 1992 in Bhubaneswar India by His Holiness Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja.

 

..." Next thing, this Sacinandana Swami in Heidelberg, Germany, he asked me, "Maharaja, why have you come ? What is the purpose of your coming now ? You have so much bodily problem, you cannot move freely. So much thing I could notice. Still you are doing alot of touring, travelling and preaching. What is your purpose ?" He asked me. I said, " Maharaja, I have dedicated my life, my body, my mind, my speech, everything I've dedicated for the service of Guru and Gauranga and my revered spiritual master, Srimad A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Maharaja has founded this International Society for Krsna Consciousness, like his life, his body. He is getting so much pain now, I could feel so. After his disappearance, many left, so- called sannyasis, leaders, those who have joined the other camp, Sridhara Maharaja camp and some other camp and they are now criticising ISKCON, criticising Srila Prabhupada, committing such great offense they couldn't understand, and they must get punishment for it, definitely. But what they say, it is intolerable on my part, intolerable, especially in Rome.

 

They showed me that booklet they are publishing, Sadjana Tosani, and they have put the name of my guru maharaja there, Srimad A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, then Bhaktiraksa Sridhara, then Govinda maharaj. Why have they put the name of my guru maharaja ?

 

Devotee: It's cheating.

 

Gour Govinda maharaja: Cheating, yes they are cheating. You are publishing your booklet, then you'll put your name. But the photo of my guru maharaja, "Guru maharaja said" articles they have printed there and telling these ISKCON devotees that Bhaktivedanta Swami taught, gave only elementary knowledge, A B C. He has not given any higher Vaisnava philosophy, education.

 

Now, after Bhaktiraksita Sridhara maharaja, Govinda maharaja is keeping it up, "please come and join." So they are just tricking and stealing the men of ISKCON. And that is intolerable, very painful. I got such a shock in my heart. These fools, who are going there. They are fools ! I chastised them, "Why you are such a fool ? You believe them ? You don't believe Prabhupada who fulfilled the desire of Gauranga Mahaprabhu ?

 

prthivi-parajanta jata ache desa-grama

sarvatra sancara hoibek mora nama. C.B Antya 4.126

 

Who did it ? Did they do it ? Srimad Bhaktisiddanta Prabhupada maharaj already sent, prior to the coming of my guru maharaj to the West, he sent Bhakti Tirtha, Bhakti Hrdaya Bon maharaj and some others. Why they couldn't do ? They were sannyasis, they were living in the math with Bhaktisiddanta, but my guru maharaja was a grhasta, he was living in his home. he was not matha-vasi, staying in the matha. He was not a sannyasi at that time, he was a grhasta. But he could get the complete, full mercy, complete mercy of Bhaktisiddanta, Bhaktivinoda Thakur, specially empowered person, an empowered devotee. Who could fulfil the desire of all previous acaryas, especially Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Bhaktisiddanta Saraswati. Who came to the West. Who sowed the seed, who laid the foundation of Krsna Consciousness.

 

Who fulfilled the desire of Sri Gauranga Mahaprabhu. Specially empowered.

 

He's empowered. Can't you understand this thing, why couldn't they do this thing ? Why do they come at this time and do now, when the atmosphere is created, the platform is there, foundations are already laid some construction is there ? Now they are coming. Now you are going there, leaving ISKCON camp. Such foolishness ! You are such a fool. Can't you understand this thing ? Thereby they are committing such offence. He has given only elementary knowledge A B C, nothing higher ? You can't understand what he has said. When a tiny seed is there, it contains, like the seed of a banyan tree. So tiny but it contains a great banyan tree inside. You fool cannot understand this thing. So intolerable. As a disciple of my guru maharaja and as a member of this founded society ISKCON, it is our duty to keep up the prestige. Yes, it is our duty now.

 

So, when Sacinandana Swami asked me, I said this thing. Therefore I have come, and I am now coming and touring, very extensive tour I am doing...

 

...Yes, that is my only purpose. So I am coming and teaching. And I want to make them 'mum', shut their mouth. Now there is higher teaching in ISKCON.

 

Yes, the time has come now. The time has come when my guru maharaja, he gave everything in seed form. That seed will now be fructified. Yes, it contains everything and you should understand. You are so foolish you cannot understand this thing. What my guru maharaja said in one word, in one sentence, it needs further explanation. One word, one sentence contains and you can't understand, you're such fools. ...

 

End.

 

In 1994 in New York, U.S.A, I was with Srila Gour Govinda Swami when he made the following statement regarding his mission;

 

He said " My mission is to show how Prabhupada has put everything in his books. The Gaudiya matha, they criticise that Prabhupada only taught A B C, and this gives me so much pain in my heart. So my mission is to show how everything is there in Prabhupada's books and make them 'mum' and so nobody will leave ISKCON."

 

The following are two letters written by His Holiness Srila Gour Govinda Swami. One to Gudakesa das and one to Goloka Vrndavan das:

 

Dear Gudakesa das

 

Hare Krsna. Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

Thank you for your letter, undated. I have gone through it carefully and noted the contents.

 

My opinion is that Srila Prabhupada will not be happy with these senior devotees going outside of ISKCON.

 

Srila Prabhupada has said that everything is in his books. If you try to understand this, then by the mercy of Srila Prabhupada it will all be made clear to you.

 

It is a fact that if an elevated Vaisnava is there, then one should go and take his association. There is no harm in that. But in this case there is a danger that the discipline in our organisation will be affected adversely. If the leaders are going outside of ISKCON, how will we be able to maintain discipline ? Srila Prabhupada has formed this society, and this THREAT (my emphasis) to his society will only cause him PAIN (my emphasis).

 

With this consideration, they should not go. That will only lead to indiscipline in our society.

 

Two sides are there; philosophical and organisational. On the organisational side, this practice is not good. Therefore we have this GBC body which makes so many rules to maintain the discipline of the members of our society. But how will we be able to keep discipline now ? No one will listen, 'if the leaders are going, why should we listen, we will also go'.

 

This will create only trouble.

 

May this letter find you in the best of health and a blissful mood of Krsna consciousness.

 

Your servant

 

Gour Govinda Swami Dated 3/11/94

 

next letter:

 

Dear Goloka Vrndavan das,

 

Hare Krsna. May you have the blessings of Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga all the time. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

Thank you for your letter dated Oct., 23 1993, which I have just received. I have gone through it carefully and noted the contents.

 

You mention that many devotees are loosing faith in ISKCON and are leaving our society to find shelter elsewhere. That is not good. THEY SHOULD NOT LEAVE ISKCON (my emphasis); that will never please Srila Prabhupada.

 

Develop patience and tolerance, and pray to Srila Prabhupada from the core of your heart. How is it that he will not help you ?...

 

I hope this letter finds you in good health and a blissful mood of Krsna consciousness,

 

Yours in the service of Srila Prabhupada

 

Gour Govinda Swami. Dated 18/12/93

End.

 

 

 

Of course, if one is crooked, one may try to twist what has been said in the above texts . Some so called godbrothers of mine have done this, but for the honest devotee, I'm sure it is clear. No doubt some will try to reply with all kinds of philosophical word jugglery, this and that, but we should try to understand things as it is, not in a crooked way.

 

In his article of 8th August Giridhari das stated some gross untruths;

 

He said: " Because of their intimate relationship, it was Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayan Maharaj who installed the murti of Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj in the Krsna-Balaram mandir in Bhubaneswar."

 

Well, that's not exactly the fact. Yes, Narayan Maharaj was there as were many other senior vaisnavas, and one of Narayan Maharaj's disciples did help with the fire sacrafice, but to say that Narayan Maharaj installed the murti of my Gurudeva is a little exaggerated to say the least.

 

In the last sentence of his article Giridhari das states the following:

 

" By the arrangement of Sri Guru and Krsna the majority of Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj disciples have taken shelter at the lotus feet of Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayan Maharaj."

 

Sorry Giridhari, I don't think you've worked out your figures correctly.

 

There's a maximum of 60 disciples who have disobeyed the orders of their Spiritual Master, Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj, and are apparently taking shelter elsewhere. My Guru Maharaj has in excess of 600 disciples, therefore your 60 hardly constitutes a 'majority'.

 

The last point I'd like to make to set things straight is this idea that Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj ever actually met Srila Narayan Maharaj:

 

Previously it was being stated that they met firstly in 1995 in Jagganath Puri. Now that seems to have changed to 1993 or 1994 according to Giridhari das.

 

My question then is; why is it that none of Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj's senior disciples, who were always with him and knew all of his engagements, can confirm the meeting ? Infact they flatly deny that there was such a meeting. That there actually was no meeting is confirmed by Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj's personel diaries. There is a detailed entry every day of every meeting etc. We went through these diaries carefully and there is not only no mention of a meeting with Srila Narayan Maharaj in 1993 or 1994, but my Guru Maharaj did not even go to Jagganath Puri in 1993 or1994. He did go in 1995 however and had a meeting with Srila Satsvarup Maharaj, but no one else.

 

I leave you all to draw your own conclusions.

 

Hare Krsna

 

Y.S. Rasikananda das

 

[gHari 0]

Gopal dasa,

 

Is this a reprint of an old article or is this issue current?

 

gHari

[Guest guest]

YES THIS IS A REPRINT OF VNN POST(AUGUST 1999)

[Coyote 0]

I am wondering if then ISKON is a communal or missionary religion meaning it must retain and create have new devotees to survive?

 

Mostly religions with a one omnipotent being like Christianity and Buddhism are communal and care alot if people come and go.

 

Most Hindu sects are not communal. If you leave no one calls you on the phone or gets upset because you decided to go off to another temple or ashram for some time. No attempt is made really to retain devotees.

 

I am interested and now wondering if you would consider the Krisha sects to be Hindu.

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure why anyone would (out of the blue) wish to rehash old news such as the above. Apparently there is indeed a difference of opinion amongst disciples of Srila Gaur Govinda Swami regarding their views on whether there was in fact a meeting between their Guru and Srila Narayana Maharaja and whether or not the disciples should receive siksha from Srila Narayana Maharaja after the Disappearance of their Gurudeva. One thing is for certain: Srila Gaur Govinda Swami was badly mistreated by Iskcon's GBC and many members of the GBC did not even consider him bonafide and there was some pressure to have him removed from Iskcon. Hence, it seems rather odd that some of his disciples would fully embrace the GBC as they have, even to the point of offending a pure Vaishnava, despite the fact that the GBC committed similar offenses to their own Gurudeva both before and after his Disappearance.

 

 

BY GIRIDHARI DAS

 

EDITORIAL, Aug 23 (VNN) — Dear Rasikananda Prabhu,

 

Please accept my humble obeisances. Sri Guru-Gaurangau jayatah !

 

It is an irrefutable fact that Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj met Srila

Bhaktivedanta Narayan Maharaj, when His Divine Grace stayed in

Jagannath Puri in the house of Singhania. The dates I have presented

might be incorrect (1994 or 1995 ?), but these are really external

considerations. I think it is more important, at least to my understanding,

how these two acaryas dealt with each other and what they spoke. For

this reason I have interviewed an eyewitness, Sriman Subal Sakha

Prabhu, a senior disciple of Srila Bhaktivedanta Vaman Maharaj who

serves in Keshavji Gaudiya Math Mathura, during Srila Gurudeva's

preaching tour in Holland this summer. About one dozen Srila Gour

Govinda Maharaja's disciples were present at that time. Sriman

Govinda Bhakta Prabhu, temple president of Gour Govinda Gaudiya

Math, Birmingham, taped this gosthi.

 

As far as I can remember Subal Sakha Prabhu mentioned that a

brahmacari-disciple of Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj was also present

there, but he couldn't recall his name. The conversation between these

two acaryas was in Hindi and lasted nearly an hour. If you want to

know more, why don't you consult Subal Sakha prabhu? I forgot to say,

however, that this meeting was gupta, secret, as the GBC forbade Srila

Gour Govinda Maharaj to closely associate with Vaisnava acaryas

outside of GBC-ruled ISKCON. So, it is no wonder that you haven't

found any written records of that meeting. If the GBC knew about it,

they would have pressurized him even more. Anyhow, prior to being

banned from GBC-ISKCON he left that kanistha-institution for good.

And so have many faithful disciples of His Divine Grace, in order to

join ISKCON as it is. The GBC could never accept Srila Gour Govinda

Maharaja's teachings on jiva-tattva, guru-tattva, rasa-tattva etc. You

can imagine how the GBC was upset when they read following words

by Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja in Krishna-Kathamrta:

 

"In Ujjvala-nilamani, our authority, Rupa Gosvami, who is known as the

rasa-acarya, gives the definition of prema...Prabhupad has said it in one

line, but it has a very deep purport to it. Rupa Gosvami has explained it

in Ujjvala-nilamani, but unless you understand that, how can you

understand Prabhupad ? "Oh, Prabhupada's books are there, I will just

read them and understand it." But how can you understand these points

? No, Prabhupad gave a very short purport here, but so many things are

there."

 

(lecture on Bhagavad-gita, June 1, 1993)

 

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayan Maharaja preaches these same tattvas,

and is also heavily criticized by the GBC. Rasikananda prabhu, you will

surely understand that many of your god-brothers and god-sisters don't

want to be part of an institution governed by a Guru-aparadhi GBC.

The main motive, however, why many of Srila Gour Govinda

Maharaja's initiated disciples and aspirant disciples are taking siksa and

diksa from Srila Narayan Maharaj is, that they are confident that their

bhakti-lata will grow under his expert guidance. After all, sadhu-sanga

is the birth-place of bhakti. There is no doubt that Srila Gour Govinda

Maharaj regarded Srila Narayan Maharaj as an elevated Vaisnava

acarya. He is certainly happy that Srila Gurudeva takes care of his

sisyas. Otherwise what hope is there that our bhakti will grow without

sadhu-sanga? I request you to read the VNN article of Aug 8 again like

a sara-grahi (one who takes the essence), and not like a bhara-grahi

(one who gives only importance to external considerations).

 

Some further observations inspired by interesting comments to your

letter in "VNN forum":

 

The statements which Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj made about not

leaving ISKCON were made in 1992 and 1994. At that time the GBCs

have been more or less free to worship Srila Narayan Maharaj as their

siksa-guru. In the book Sri Navadvip-dham parikrama published by

Gaudiya Vaisnava Press there is a picture which shows Srila Narayan

Maharaj giving a lecture in a packed temple hall of the ISKCON

Mayapur Candrodaya Mandir. That was in 1993. However, at the

annual GBC meeting at 1995, when it became an official ISKCON

mandate that the members were to no longer associate with Srila

Narayan Maharaja, Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj did not approve of this

and said that he would challenge the GBC to a debate on this issue.

 

Unfortunately, Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj left this planet prior to the

annual GBC meeting in 1996. After that meeting the GBC passed the

infamous resolutions against Srila Narayan Maharaj, calling him a

sahajiya who should be avoided. This paper was then sent to all

ISKCON centers. I am confident that Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja

with his bold and uncompromising nature would have strongly opposed

this superlative vaisnava-aparadha. But again, he himself was about to

be banned from GBC ISKCON.

 

So, it is significant to note the contrast of Srila Gour Govinda

Maharaja's feelings on the "Don't leave ISKCON-matter" before the

1995 meeting and after.

 

The GBC resolutions of 1996 say that Srila Narayan Maharaj is a

sahajiya. ISKCON members should not associate with him, nor read his

books, nor glorify him. Yet, Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj relished

reading his books and lecturing on them, he went to meet Srila Narayan

Maharaj in Puri (offering his dandavat-pranams at his lotus-feet and

humbly asking him questions related to Radha-Krishna-lila) and he

glorified him as an elevated rasika acarya. Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj

would have never touched any book written by a sahajiya, what to

speak of associating with or glorifying such a person.

 

Rasikananda prabhu and all of you GBC-devoted Gour Govinda

Maharaja disciples! Why don't you write any letter against the

defamation of Srila Narayan Maharaj by the GBC body. Please follow

your Guru Maharaj ! When it comes to vaisnava-aparadha you are

either part of the solution or part of the problem.

 

In one letter you reproduced Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj says:

 

"It is a fact that if an elevated Vaisnava is there, ONE SHOULD GO

AND TAKE HIS ASSOCIATION." (my emphasis)

 

I conclude my letter here.

 

Vaisnava-dasanudas

 

Giridhari das

 

Of interest above is the well-known fact, that Srila Gaur Govinda Maharaja had been planning to debate the GBC, all by himself, regarding the GBC's resolutions regarding Srila Narayana Maharaja. Why would he have made such plans unless he felt so strongly about the issue and maintained a mood of respect, admiration, and love for Srila Narayana Maharaja. Hence, many of Srila Gaur Govinda Maharaja's disciple have adopted a similar mood and regularly receive siska from Srila Narayana Maharaja, or at least read his books as well as avoid committing ninda, especially publicly, which has become one of the chief trademarks of the GBC over the years, beginning with their infamous campaign against Srila Sridhara Maharaja in the early 1980's.

[Guest guest]

 

I am wondering if then ISKON is a communal or missionary religion meaning it must retain and create have new devotees to survive?

 

 

 

This would have been better in a new thread, but ok, since its here, I'll be the first to throw in my two cents.

 

The original ISKCON was pure and therefore would not have required new members to survive. However, due to contamination which I rather not get into here or you will see all sides start to fight, whereas most will agree the problems in general are there, so the bottom line is: due to such contaminations, they sure do need new people to join to keep it going!

 

 

Mostly religions with a one omnipotent being like Christianity and Buddhism are communal and care alot if people come and go.

 

 

Whether ISKCON is communal or not, is a yes and no answer. It depends on which ashrama you pick to live in. If you live in the temple as a brahmcari (monk) or brahmacarini (nun) then it is communal.

 

For those who want to marry, and most of them don't like communal living, they can live in apartments or homes, being independant.

 

 

Most Hindu sects are not communal. If you leave no one calls you on the phone or gets upset because you decided to go off to another temple or ashram for some time. No attempt is made really to retain devotees.

 

 

And then there are those, even in Christian religions, who call you on the phone to check up on you, harass you, try to run your life. Communal living sounds nice but is too often idealistic because most humans are not pure enough. It can open the door to turn it into a cult.

 

 

I am interested and now wondering if you would consider the Krisha sects to be Hindu.

 

 

We are not Hindus. Some Hindus worship Krishn as God, some don't. Hindusim is not an ancient word, is nowhere to be found in our Sanskrit texts. Some worship demi-gods, some are impersonalists, some are Shivites, some are stuck in the caste system, etc.

[Guest guest]

"We are not Hindus. "

 

hindu means vedic people, those who accept the authority of the vedas and live by it. hindu and hinduism are just new names of the vedic people and sanatana dharma.

therefore it is obvious that that words cannot be found in scriptures.

 

only the hindus worship krishna and know that krishna is god. therefore krishna devotees are hindus, and vaishnavas specifically. prabhupadas was not a muslim or christian or a jew or any one else except a pure hindus, a krishna bhakta. (how can you prove that he and chaitanya were not hindus?)

 

therefore his follower are hindus,

no matter what they say.

 

this politics of "we are not hindus" means this:

 

"if you think we are hindus then you hindus support us, follow us, but we are not hindus and we will not support you in your struggle for a hindu nation (like it was in the time of yudhisthira). we sure like to do yatras at various dhamas in india, but we will not care if the muslims destroy them. you worry about that, not we. why we say we are not hindus? well, there is no proof about it. we say it just becaue prabhupada said it. we are close minded followers. we cannot see the facts and make decisions.

we even do not try to understand why he said he is not preaching hinduism, when in fact he preached a major sect of hinduism."

 

jai sri prabhupada!

 

[Coyote 0]

Thank you for the reply. When I wrote communal I was not refering to physically living in communes but to communal religions-those that must have retention & new members to survive.

 

Like the Catholic church setting aside a couple billion for the conversion of India, including Mother Theresa's missions after so many churches closed in the USA and Europe-this occurred long before the priest scandals. The nature of belief is that it must perpetuate itself.

 

I understand that Hindu is not an ancient word as it would be very difficult to categorize the religions of India even today. Yet the sages of India proved to the British that all aspects of what they called Hinduism was geared towards mukti (enlightenment). Like there are those that worship the Christ who consider themselves Hindu as clearly in his message can be found moksha-liberation from births and deaths.

 

So this leads me to the question then is the Krishna religion geared towards enlightenment?

[Guest guest]

"Like there are those that worship the Christ who consider themselves Hindu"

 

In ignorance one can consider one self to be anything.

some thinnk they are god, e.g.. that is the freedom one has.

 

If you ask pope or any other church authority, they will clearly say that one is not christian unless one accepts jesus and only jesus. and hhey never would say that one who accepts jesus is a hindu.

 

"is the Krishna religion geared towards enlightenment? "

 

yes. enlightenment can be achieved in several ways:

 

- by only self effort, no dependence upon any one else.

this is really hard, one can do something that would take him away from god.

 

- by coopertive group effort. this is sankirtan. here one has to depend upon others. prabhupada made iskcon. many love prabhupdada. therefore they love iskcon also. if iskcon has defects or impurities in it, hten the right way is to stay in there and try to correct it rather thn run away from it with the hope that there is better green pasture some where else. this is the reason why i assuem they say do "do not leave iskcon.stay in and work to make iskcon better and ideal." the other reality is that if an org gets bad leaders then the org. will not survive. followers would quit if they cannot remove the leadership.

 

so, there is reason why one should quit

and rason why one should stick with.

 

when prabhupada established iskcon and the mission,

the world was not aware of terrorism asuras as they are now.

in light of that iskcon and hare krishna need to focus on practicing and preaching gita/krishna and not chaitanya.

the reason is simple. chanting and dancing cannot deter terrorists. they use ak-47's and granades, not mridangams and cymbals. kshatriya dharma cannot be neglected when there are islamic terrorists who just want to kill non muslims in order to go to haven to enjoy with 72 virgins.

 

jai sri prabhupada!

 

[Guest guest]

Genocide committed in the name of Allah: 3,000,000 Bangladeshi Hindus Killed during the Pakistan-Bangladesh war in 1971. From 1894 to 1896 Abdul Hamid, Sultan of the Ottoman Empire, killed 150,000 Armenian Christians. In India, Sikh Guru Tegh Bahadur along with his disciples was burned to death by the Moghul ruler Aurangzeb in 1675. Another Sikh, Bhai Mati Das was sawn into right and left halves while he was still alive. In July 1974, 4,000 Christians living in Cyprus were killed by Fahri Koroturk, president of Turkey and his Islamic army. From 1843 to 1846 10,000 Assyrian Christians including women and children were massacred by the Muslims. From 1915 to 1918 750,000 Assyrians were killed in the name of Islamic Jihad. In 1933 thousands of Assyrian villagers were murdered by the Iraqi soldiers in Northern Iraq. Since 1990 more than 10,000 Kashmiri Hindus have been brutally murdered by Islamic fundamentalists. Over 280,000 Ugandans killed during the reign of Idi Amin from 1971 to 1979. Over 30,000 Mauritanians have been killed by the Islamic dictators since 1960. In 1980, 20,000 Syrians were murdered under the rule of Hafez Al-Assad, President of Syria. Since 1992 120,000 Algerians have been murdered by the Islamic fundamentalist army.

H induism tells us that the "Self" which dwells in each and every being in this universe is one and the same with Godhead. Every soul in this uinverse is a reflection of this Supreme Self. Thus every individual has the potential to realize Godhead by the realization of this "Self".

 

Realization of the "Self" is possible only when someone is free to think on his/her own and act accordingly. The most heinous and barbaric crime in this world would be to stop an individual to think freely. And when such a crime is legalised in the form of a religion, one can easily imagine how disastrous it can be. Islam is such a religion.

 

Islam imposes a threat to the whole world which is far worse than deforestation, nuclear destruction or AIDS. It is an insidious, devilish disease creeping into the veins of the world. Every individual must realise the destructive and evil nature of this religion, for it eats away at the very foundation of humanity which is an individual's ability to think individually and act accordingly. The following articles logically analyse different aspects of this so called religion and bring forth the true nature of Islam

 

[Guest guest]

 

the hindu religion, or Sanatana Dharma(eternal duty)

is based on the guru-discpile relationship.

 

the guru generally has an ashram or gurukula, school

or religious commune.

 

the religion is not based on gaining new converts,

that is a newer phenomenon.

 

in the past only those born into hinduism were qualified

for entrance into the gurukula or ashram where they recieved instruction and schooling.

 

Sri Caitanya changed all that, his mission was to

distribute the highest conception of Yoga to the masses.

 

so this Iskcon, or hare krsna movement, or Gaudiya

vaisnavism was started by Him, 500 years ago.

 

The mission is to bring to the masses the highest form

of Yoga, other hindu schools have another role.

 

The Hare Krsna or Caitanya school is specifically

different, meant for mass consumption.

 

so, to say that the religion needs to expand is correct, that is it's raison d'tre, it's purpose.

 

Sankirtan, the congregational chanting and dancing

was inaguarated as the "yuga -dharma" by Sri caitanya.

 

every age, or Yuga , has a proscribed method of attaining

god consciouness,according to the "hindu" or vedic

shastra or scripture.

 

in this age Kali yuga, the method is Hari nam Sankirtan,

the chanting and dancing of the names of Hari, or god.

 

this is the scriptural method for this age, the other methods include meditation and hatha yoga, intense study and asceticism, and worship with grand and opulent

accoutremants.

 

this age the method has been made easy, This method

of Chanting, dancing, and study of shastra and association of sadhus, or holy men, is the easiest of the methods.

 

no need of extreme actions or ascetic lifestyle is neccessary.

 

Sri caitanya has given the highest thing , very easily

attainable, easily practiced by anyone.

 

[Guest guest]

"in the past only those born into hinduism were qualified

for entrance into the gurukula or ashram "

 

no, every human belign was allowed.

some who thought they were not hidnus

would not go for it.

else, no guru would usuelly reject a human in his ashram or gurukula.

there may be some mapractice some times, though.

 

other than this, your post is very good. thanks.

 

jai sri prabhupada!

 

[Guest guest]

actually usually only those born hindu were admitted,

Sri Caitanya allowed anyone.

 

the ashram or gurukula did not admit those outside

the faith, meateaters or people of other faiths

were considered not eligible, only after taking re birth as a hindu , they believed, would non hindus be allowed.

 

of course this wasn't true in every single case, but it was the norm.

 

[Coyote 0]

Quote************

the ashram or gurukula did not admit those outside

the faith, meateaters or people of other faiths*********

 

Not admit meat eaters? Correct me if I am wrong but that seems kind of modern. Was there was considerable animal sacrifice and burnt offerings & feasts in pre-Upanishad days and Vedic ritual.

 

Granted at the time of the Upanishads no respectable person in India ate meat per many scholars (whatever respectable may mean /images/graemlins/smile.gif) but before that........

[Coyote 0]

*********quote:

the world was not aware of terrorism asuras as they are now.

in light of that iskcon and hare krishna need to focus on practicing and preaching gita/krishna and not chaitanya.

***********

Which world?

I find that to be an interesting statement considering how India and much of the world has suffered for eons at the hands of perhaps the most imperialistic cultures in the history of man.

 

[Guest guest]

mantra de politica

 

iskcon and hare krishna need to focus on practicing and preaching gita/krishna and not chaitanya

 

 

 

I knew it.

I always knew it.

Iskcon preaches not the mission of Sri Caitanya,

who came to give ragAnuga marga.

and specially came to give manjari bhava

samrpaitum unantojjvala rasa(m)

sva bhakti Sriyam

 

You know Goya? The painter?

He said:

The beautiful ones with the beautiful ones and

the ugly ones with the ugly ones

so that there is harmony !

 

And what about the coyotes and shiva-coyote.

And what about the mercy?

[gHari 0]

You may keep your identity a secret from us while writing such disastrous comments, but Sri Krsna Caitanya knows exactly who you are. You accept God as something very cheap. Your "Raganuga" is simply imagination.

[Guest guest]

If I was isckonated I would certainly leave ISCKON.

[Guest guest]

I'm not the guest above who wrote either of those replies, but I'd rather be a cowardly guest than a foolish atheistic offender like yourself. The Raganuga he refers to is not imagination. If you believe that, then I guess you believe Sastra to be imagination also. And how on earth would you know if the guest takes God cheaply? Are you a mind-reader? You know this devotee personally? You've observed his sadhana and his bhajana?

 

Talk about disastrous comments.

[Guest guest]

Yes dear qHari, is this your name?

Oh, no!

If I was in IsKcon?

And being initiated by an IsKcon guru, means one belongs to IsKcon?

 

The huge majority I have met in IsKcon have no idea about

tattvas, what to say about rasa?

They preach only gita for beginers, as the cayote said,

and they imagine that like Ajamila will go to Vaikuntha.

Sri Caitanya rejected gita as goal of sadhana (read Raya Ramananda samvada CCM lila).

 

To taste Srimad Bhagavatam as Gaudya Vaisnavas do, one should hear Caitanya Bhagavat and Caitanya Caritamrita,

and the six Gosvamis, Srila Vishvanatha Cakravarti T. and others from the lips of pure devotees.

 

The mood of those raganuga devotees will produce the needed impressions in the heart, and the eternal pious credits,

to search for the association of pure devotees.

 

Iskcon doesn't preach the mission of Sri Caitanya.

I think you are not like kailasa, you know gauraga nahito tabe ke hoito/ kemone dharita do/ rAdhAra mahimA prema rasa simA / jagate jAnAto ke.

 

[gHari 0]

His is, however. A liberated soul would never ridicule Prabhupada's mission. Raganuga is only for those who are liberated. Ergo, his fantasy about being raganuga is imagination. All ego maintenance; perhaps the whole God trip has been simply self-aggrandizement. Whatever. To say that ISKCON teaches less than Sri Caitanya's ultimate desire is sheer petty nonsense, and very offensive.

 

I certainly don't place such a person's opinions above those of Srila Goura Govinda Swami. I don't give such a person the right to have opinions; and if he were at all wise or even humble, neither would he.

[theist 1]

"Iskcon doesn't preach the mission of Sri Caitanya."

 

I disagree with this statement very much. Lord Caitanya's message reached me on the West coast of the USA somehow. I certainly didn't decide to up and go to Radha-kund one day, and see what was there.

 

It was also through ISKCON that I came to even hear the name Ramananda Raya. Of course the real message came from Krsna's devotee but ISKCON was certainly the medium.

 

You may have some disagreements with present day ISKCON and what they teach, but wouldn't it be better to be stay on specifics where you think they have deviated from the siddhanta and steer clear from such broad indictments?

 

[raga 0]

I'd be interested to know the names of the people who post strong opinions without revealing their identity, just to get an idea of their background and to weigh the worth of their words. Anonymous questions are all right, but anonymous challenges and strong opinions practically invalidate themselves through anonymity. A person who speaks out loud without revealing himself is a person who is not willing to stand behind his claims. Such a person should rather be silent.

[raga 0]

 

Sri Caitanya rejected gita as goal of sadhana (read Raya Ramananda samvada CCM lila).

 

 

Mahaprabhu said nothing of Gita itself, only commenting on certain verses of the Gita which Ramananda Raya proposed as an option for sadhya. We know from the internal infrastructure of the Gita itself that it encompasses statements various grades of authority and significance, this is evident even from the words of Bhagavan Himself.

 

Prabhu rejected Gita 9.27 suggesting sannyasa-yoga as the sadhya. We know from Jiva's Bhakti-sandarbha that engagement in acts of aropa-siddha-bhakti is certainly not the ultimate means of sadhana, what to speak of its being the sadhya.

 

He also rejected Gita 18.66 suggesting dharma-tyaga and saranagati as the sadhya. They are certainly preliminary elements of sadhana, but not the sadhya. Prabhu rejected Gita 18.54 as well, since the attainment of mukti as a foundation for bhakti is also not the sadhya.

 

He did quote from Gita 4.11 when he began to explain the concept of gopi-bhava, though it became evident that Krishna couldn't actually reciprocate with the Vraja-ramanis according to His promise. Of course a careful observer will come to note that Gita 4.11 was spoken by Dvarakadhisa decades after Sri Nandanandana enjoyed with the gopis in Vraja-dhama; what Dvarakadhisa has said is certainly true, for He is a partial manifestation of Vrajendranandana, and in the realm where He presides, prema does not rise so high as to go beyond his reciprocal capacity.

 

However, Bhagavad Gita itself was never proposed as the sadhya; after all, how can a scripture be the object of sadhana? Rather it is a guide-book. Gita is a manual for people with varying eligibilities, not excluding the aspirants who desire to follow the raganuga-marga. Interestingly, in the closing passage (2.8) of his Raga Vartma Candrika, Srila Cakravartipad refers twice to the Gita to illustrate his point. This in itself should suffice to demonstrate the point that the general principles of the Gita, under proper guidance, are befitting for everyone.

 

After all, can one find any fault in the statements of Sri Gita, such as mac-cittA mad-gata-prANA, satata-yuktAnAM bhajatAM prIti-pUrvakam, ananyAz cintayanto mAm paryupAsate or mayy eva mana Adhatsva? They are certainly worth the careful consideration of both the aspirant and the accomplished one.

 

[raga 0]

 

in light of that iskcon and hare krishna need to focus on practicing and preaching gita/krishna and not chaitanya.

the reason is simple. chanting and dancing cannot deter terrorists. they use ak-47's and granades, not mridangams and cymbals. kshatriya dharma cannot be neglected when there are islamic terrorists who just want to kill non muslims in order to go to haven to enjoy with 72 virgins.

 

 

Do you have a good reason to believe that there were no crazy Muslims at the time of Mahaprabhu and His immediate followers? Have you by chance ever read any biographies of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu? All right, perhaps they didn't have hand granades back then, but just see the destruction they brought about during the century subsequent to Mahaprabhu's withdrawing His lila from the eyes of this world! Did the Gaudiyas emphasize Gita and ksatriya-dharma back then to the exclusion of Caitanya? No, in fact Gauranga-seva and Gauranga-upasana began to blossom far and wide.