theist 1 Report post Posted February 12, 2003 In the intoduction to the Bhagavada gita Srila Prabhupada lists five different ways that one may be in relationship to the Lord. The first one is: 1. One may be a devotee in a passive state. Well what does this mean? Can someone help explain what this state may be like? Can one be in a passive state relationship with Krsna and still be active in the ordinary course of life in this world, or does it means one has to retire and become inactive like living in a cave somewhere or something like that? What are the characteristics of this passive state? Thanks Hare Krsna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 12, 2003 Haribol, santa rasa is a rasa that is not considered an actual relationship with Krsna, in other words, there is no reciprocations of feelings between lover and beloved, prior to servitude, where such reciprocation is manifest. Santa is a peaceful feeling in knowing god exists, but there is no acting to reciprocate unconditional love. Gotta run, the scholars will make this a nice topic, hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jahnava Nitai Das 2 Report post Posted February 13, 2003 One example of a passive state are the stones in Vaikuntha, another is the liberated souls meditating in Mahesh-dhama, though in Vrindavana even the stones are on the level of madhurya rasa. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted February 13, 2003 "One should therefore glorify the Lord in the adoration of sänta-rasa ..."SB 7.6.2 pur Is this just for liberated souls such as in Vraja and Vaikuntha? What if someone starts to just appreciate the glory and presence of the Lord in material world around us? Like learning to perceive His presence and glory in the Sun for instance. Is that cultivation of a passive appreciation a beginning of santa rasa (passive relationship)? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livingentity 0 Report post Posted February 13, 2003 Srila Prabhupada tells us in Science of Self-Realization; chapter eight: "The cows in Krsna's abode are also liberated souls. They are called surabhi cows. There are many popular pictures showing how Krsna loves the cows, how He embraces and kisses them. That passive relationship with Krsna is called santa. Their perfect happiness is achieved when Krsna comes and simply touches them." I understand from this that the devotee in the passive state is very happy and content with the knowledge that Lord Krsna is there to love and protect them in this material world and also the Spiritual Sky. Just the fact that Lord Krsna is there is their happiness. They do not feel the inclination to actually perform service to the Lord such as cooking etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livingentity 0 Report post Posted February 14, 2003 Srila Prabhupada teaches us that it is by the process of devotional service that we revive our constitutional position as a devotee - be it friend, parent or one of conjugal lover. What of the devotee that is in the passive state who is not inclined to perform devotional service? Is it as Theist asks - a state only of the liberated souls? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 17, 2003 I always thought passive meant peace. To be a passive devotee would therefore mean to encourage serenity and have a flower in hand to promote enlightment instead of a fist for violence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 17, 2003 In the context being discussed, "passive" is referring to an inactive state of devotion, as in passive vs active, not "passive vs violence." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted February 17, 2003 TRANSLATION CC Madhya 19.215 “When a devotee is situated on the platform of sänta-rasa, he desires neither elevation to the heavenly planets nor liberation. These are the results of karma and jnäna, and the devotee considers them no better than hell. A person situated on the sänta-rasa platform manifests the two transcendental qualities of detachment from all material desires and full attachment to Krsna." "...manifests...full attachment to Krsna." So are the impersonalists considered in santa-rasa? They don't exhibit full attachment to Krsna. Or are there two types of santa-rasa? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livingentity 0 Report post Posted February 17, 2003 "Santa rasa is the neutral attitude of devotees who are in appreciation of the greatness of God, but are not actively engaged in His service. "Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur states that in Brajabhumi; the Yamuna River, the kadamba trees, the cows, Krishna's cowherding stick and flute all belong to the santa rasa (the mellow of neutrality or passive adoration)." (Caitanya Caritamrita Madhya 8.294 purport) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livingentity 0 Report post Posted February 17, 2003 I have been researching the Santa Rasa a bit and wonder if I am correct in saying that the Rasas build on each other as the devotee develops in his service to Lord Krsna. I also would like to know if the impersonalists are considered to be in the Santa Rasa as a permanent mood. If this is so, then what about the Yamuna River, kadamba trees, cows, Krishna's cowherding stick and flute - they are not impersonalists. They feel affection towards Lord Krsna. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 18, 2003 I like to be a devotee in a passive state. I read Srimad Bhagavatam all the time and I worship Krishna in my mind all the time but as far as going out and preaching or anything like that I could never do it. I am not patient and tolerant enough with people to do something like that. Every now and then I discuss some of Krishna Consciousness with my relatives but they just think I am off in space or something. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 18, 2003 To the other guests: the 'passive' state being referred to in this discussion is an English translation for the santa rasa, sometimes called the nuetral stage of Love of God. To Theist: I don't have any quotes to offer, but my understanding is that no, the impersonalists are definitely not situated in santa rasa. Santa rasa is one of the 5 primary rasas. One must be filled with pure love for Krsna, and free from all anarthas, in order to realize one's eternal relationship with Krsna, whether that may be in nuetrality, servitude, friendship, parental, or conjugal. Impersonalism is an anartha, ahankara. In fact, it is considered to be a very deep form of atheism, being that the impersonalist rejects the eternal form of Krsna, and desires to become one, or equal with Krsna. The impersonalist has not realized his constitutional position as an eternal servant of Krsna, and hence, will eventually fall down. Generally, inanimate objects like rocks are considered to be situated in santa rasa, although as JNdas points out, even the rocks in Vraja are assisting Their Lordships in the conjugal rasa. My understanding is that even though the rocks or trees or clouds may appear to be passive, and may be considered to be situated within santa rasa, still there is the desire to serve Krsna. The rocks want to be stepped on by Krsna's lotus feet, the clouds wish to offer shade from the Summer's heat, or to paint a pleasing picture in the sky for the pleasure of Their Lordships and Their devotees. In their hearts, those in santa rasa are actively serving at all times, even if externally it may appear that they are not performing so much service. Impersonalists, on the other hand, have no desire to serve Krsna's form, except perhaps in the beginning in order to attain their goal: the brahmajyoti. But once they've realized their goal, (which takes millions of lifetimes of austerities), they then reject Krsna's form as being a form of maya, hence the term mayavada. The impersonalists may be inactive, but their inaction is not the same as the apparent inaction of the unalloyed pure devotees situated in the santa rasa. The impersonalists motivation for inaction is just the opposite of the santa bhakta's motivation. One is motivated by maya, the other, by bhakti. mxyz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted February 18, 2003 These are all very nice explanations and I think I am starting to get a understanding for what santa is. Thank You, more is welcome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anveshan 0 Report post Posted February 18, 2003 “Who bears ill-will to none and forgives all, Who, emancipated from ego-sense Of “I” and “Mine”, is compassionate and kind Who reacts nor to pain nor joy, who‘s ever Contented, resolute and master of self ’’ This could be the nuetral, passive or samanvaya state, where your mind is completely devoid of hatred, ego sense, desires and completely merged and in shanti with the Super Soul. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted February 18, 2003 I have been researching the Santa Rasa a bit and wonder if I am correct in saying that the Rasas build on each other as the devotee develops in his service to Lord Krsna. I have the same question. I have read that one established in santa gets attracted to dasya, the mood of an active servant at some point. Perhaps someone can confirm this or add to it. And then does that dasya possibly develop into friendship paternal and congugal, if desired, with dasya as a foundation. Also is it necessary to develop santa as in awe and veneration before the others? Hare Krsna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mxyzptlk 0 Report post Posted February 18, 2003 Hare Krsna Theist Ji, These are intelligent questions. Unfortunately, I am not able to answer them authoritatively. I know that there is one book called Brihat Bhagavatamrita which elaborates upon these topics. Actually, Srila Prabhupada stated in a purport in the Caitanya Caritamrita that anyone interested in becoming Krsna Conscious must read this book. I don't know right off-hand where you can obtain a copy, although I do believe that Srila Narayana Maharaja has a summary study of this book, and Sripad Tripurari Maharaja has published a version of this great book, and no doubt there is an Iskcon version as well. The book describes the gradual spiritual progression of Gopa Kumar from Vaikuntha to Goloka. At any rate, I have read before that the madhurya rasa contains/includes the other 4 rasas. Whether one actually begins at santa rasa and progresses from one rasa to the next, I don't know. My understanding is that while practicing raganuga bhakti, that at an advanced stage, I believe in the bhava stage, Sri Guru reveals your eternal idendity and your eternal rasa. From what I understand, one usually doesn't switch from one rasa to another, although I have been told that it is possible. An aspiring devotee does indeed require awe and reverance in the beginning in order to develop faith in Krsna. However, one situated in santa rasa is already a pure devotee. So it's not quite the same. One situated in santa rasa has already attained perfection and has already realized his constitutional position in relationship with Krsna. Another possibility is to search through the index of books like Nectar of Devotion and Teachings of Lord Chaitanya, looking up the word 'rasa'. I'm sure you will find many references to the 5 primary rasas, which include the santa rasa. If my understanding of this topic is incorrect, I hope that someone with knowledge of this topic will indeed correct me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 19, 2003 Haribol. We see many understandings of the Vaisnava, and we should not think that such truth is controversial or contradictory. That said, Surabhi can also be considered not only on the passive stage, but also maternal as well, as she is fully considered the Mother of Krsna. The creepers at his feet can also be seen as servitude, as this is massage for the Transcendental Couple. Srimati tulasi devi is considered by many to be fixed up in madurya rasa, as She assists Srimati Radharani in her loving exchange with Krsna. Yamuna and Govardhana are directly serving the Lord, and protecting the devotees. In the absolute realm, there is no high or low, as all are completely engaged according to swarup, the constitutional position of the living entity. The Earth planet, as well, takes the form of a cow, and allows milk to flow into the hands of the Lord. Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kailasa 0 Report post Posted February 19, 2003 They the see lilas, but "not coming" with they. It is not impersonal. First person go in santa rasa, then in own. "Nobody not come for Me with out santa rasa" BRS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted February 21, 2003 Mxyz prabhu, I have read a copy of Brhihat Bhagavatamritam. It was the one published by the Gaudiya Matha translated by B.V. Madhusudana. I didn't know there were others. I will look for Tripuraris.I heard that ISKCON had one in the works. That is a good tip for this subject. I am curious as to if santa is generally the aspirants first glimpse of God in the progression and what the beginning symptoms might be. Was Arjuna's vision of the universal form considered Santa rasa? His mind was blown so much I don't know if we call that santa or not. Where Krsna describes Himself as the intelligence of the intelligent, the light in all luminous being etc. is that santa rasa or some stage prior to it? Hare Krsna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted February 21, 2003 Haribol Kailasa, Are you saying that everyone goes through Santa-rasa and then continue on to the rasa that is best suited for them? But Santa rasa first fir everyone? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kailasa 0 Report post Posted February 21, 2003 Haribol Prabhu! ***Are you saying that everyone goes through Santa-rasa and then continue on to the rasa that is best suited for them? Yes, in his originally rasa. ***But Santa rasa first fir everyone? Yes. Brahma bhuta prasannatma, as minimum. But is santa rasa who above brahman, person first take spiritual knowlege, and spiritual experiense. Many who speak abhout "madhurya" really stay in santa rasa may be /images/graemlins/smile.gif. They only teach do in spiritual reality may be. Who search spiritual taste not harry (?), then spiritual life deep, spiritual understanding mathure, it is real taste. Nobody not jamp in his spiritual body, in this all be in material qualitis. This "madhurya" rasa not attractive, only for similiar materialistic devotees. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted February 21, 2003 Understood. Thanks Kailasa. I like your emphasis on developing depth in God realization. Hare Krsna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
