Animal rights

[theist 1]

This link will take you to a thread on http//:beliefnet.com where animal rights is being discussed. The pictures are graphic. Don't go if you want to stay attached to your apathy on the issue.

 

http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?pageID=1&discussionID=207548&messages_per_page=4

[theist 1]

<img src=http://www.freefarmanimals.org/gallery/vealcow15.jpg>

 

 

This is the fate of bulls produced by the dairy industry. They can't produce milk so they are kept in these crates until slaughter. They are not allowed to move around because that would reduce the tenderness of the meat.

 

If you feel you must purchase milk please know the source.

[stonehearted 0]

Excellent point. A Godbrother of mine calls this the blood milk indistry. We're fortunate enough to have a devotee on this island who protects a few dozen cows and who sells us milk from cows whose baby bulls won't suffer this fate. Unfortunately, he's pretty much a one-man operation and doesn'thave facility to trainand work the bulls.

[theist 1]

Stone, what does he do with the baby bulls?

[stonehearted 0]

He keeps 'em. A couple of us have some ideas how he can come up with more support so he can develop his project. We need your blessings.

[theist 1]

stone,

 

Being wretched I can't offer blessings but I do wish you guys well on this.

 

We know in the past the bulls worked the fields. That is not so practical these days. Perhaps they will just walk around in fields eatting grass. Of course that presents other problems.

 

This came up on an animals right board on another forum and I could not offer and thing very positive.

 

If we as a society can't have milk wothout cruelty then the milk must go IMO.

 

Merry Christ-mass

 

ps the link on the first post is no longer fruitful. We suffered a troll attack that caused the whole thread to be abandoned.

[Gauracandra 1]

I really do admire this guy, as it must be extremely difficult. I posted a summary on a program about the Shakers here:

 

http://www.indiadivine.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=33875&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

 

A key part of their failing was that they just could not compete economically when the industrial revolution occured. To succeed I think devotees would need to develop some really high concentration in a single area. Then they could reasonably opt out of the broader economy for milk products. Devotees are just too thinned out to create real economic development.

[madhav 0]

How to get koshar milk?

 

There is Horizon Dairy that claims they treat cows humanely.

So, our family uses that product.

 

Does any one know first hand how they tret cows?

 

Another alterntive is that

A vaishnav org. or a rich vaishnav should go in dairy business, and some cow worshippers should provide free or low cost seva to the dairy to keep price competitive.

or the vaishnavas who purchase the milk should willingly pay higher price for this koshar milk.

 

 

Finally, do not buy milk and be happy.

 

Jai Sri Krishna!

 

 

[debbie 0]

I drink "Silk Soymilk" or "SunSoy Soymilk" as a alternative to drinking cow's milk. Since before, I was normally drinking skim milk, these made a nice alternative, for drinking or in cereal. I can't say that I have tried it in any recipes yet, but it might work in those, too. It generally comes in plain, vanilla, and chocolate. It may have other flavors too. For me, I like the vanilla and plain the best.(Sorry,I just read this, and my post sounded like a advertisement for soymilk).

Debbie

[theist 1]

Debbie, I also drink soy milk. I can't digest milk and now I see what suffering it causes. They are making it better all the time. I use it for smoothies. Vannila being my favorite. Soy milk, some fruit, berries maybe, a big spoonful of some p-nut or sesame butter and I'm on my way.

 

Modern milk has pus in it also. From their pumping some many hormones into the cows. their udders become grossly distended to the point of dragging on the ground. They become infected due to this and the pus cells end up in the milk right on the shelf. Yucko

[madhav 0]

i have tried it too.

 

i think it is good with, two drawbacks:

 

- In includes calcium carbonate (chalk) in it

to give appearance of milk. This CaCO3 is not soluble in water and is not an organic compound. So, if we eat it, it goes through the system and I believe it cannot give calcium the body needs. Body can use inorganic compounds of calcium only. Consequently, their claim that it is calcium rich is misleading. In the stomach I have felt weight of calcium carbonate like stone.

 

- We should depend less and less on tehnology if we can. So, we need to learn how to make soymilk at home or in a temple. Else we would have to go to work in factories that produce soymilk (which is not really bad compared to working in wine factory.)

 

Jai Sri Krishna!

 

[theist 1]

:"[st. Francis] looked upon creation with the eyes of one who could recognize in it the marvelous work of the hand of God. His solicitous care, not only towards men, but also towards animals is a faithful echo of the love with which God in the beginning pronounced his 'fiat' which brought them into existence. We too are called to a similar attitude." -- Pope John Paul II

 

Nice quote huh? But how hollow such fine sentiment rings when we learn that the bell striker is one who eats veal.

[Priitaa 0]

The milk company called "United" does not feed their cows chemically tainted foods and I am almost sure they do not kill them either.

 

Its best if we have our own cows. When we can't, its best we buy organic milk by those who protect their cows. However, sometimes we can't do even this, so its good to know there is a nondevotee milk compnay out there that is more humane than others. The owner loves his cows, as did his father before him.

 

YS,

Prtha dd

[Priitaa 0]

Be careful about soy milk. Its not the health food it appears to be. Soy in general is not as good for you as previously thought, and I admit to being attached to such products myself. However, my health forced me to surrender to accepting the truth about it. I'm not into debates so if you want to read about soy and the little known harm it can also do, here is a url.

 

http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/

 

If we drink milk according to the Ayurvedic method, the way Prabhupada taught us to, it won't be mucous forming or harmful. Even, it can be healing. Many Ayurvedic formula's include milk as a carrier.

 

For those who have an intolleance, that is a medical condition and something different. Try yogurt. I know a woman who was pregnant, lactose intollerant, but had no problem with (plain, unsweetened) yogurt. Use it as a salad dressing, etc. This may not work for all, but probably for a lot, since yogurt contains digestive enzymes and other benefits.

 

Just ideas. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Thanks for loaning an ear. Haribol!

 

YS,

Prtha dd

[livingentity 0]

I have milk intolerance and have no problem at all with yoghurt. Basically, yoghurt is already digested so there is no problem with it just sitting in the body fermenting like milk does with those who have the intolerance.

 

Little side story about milk intolerance:

 

About 20 years ago I started having horrid stomach pains and went to the doctor who told me that he did not even have to test me to know that I had an ulcer and to drink lots and lots of milk. I was already drinking a lot of milk at that time and upped it because of this doctor's orders.

 

Well, things went from bad to worse and the doctor did not help.

 

A friend of mine had married a doctor from India and they came to visit me. I told him the situation and he told me to immediately stop the milk.

 

The rest is history and this verifies the fact that "Doctors PRACTICEmedicine!"

[livingentity 0]

that we have on the treatment of dairy cows and the things that are done to the milk afterwards....perhaps milk intolerance isn't so bad afterall.

[theist 1]

Hare Krsna Pritha,

 

You said:"The milk company called "United" does not feed their cows chemically tainted foods and I am almost sure they do not kill them either."

 

Is this company a devotee owned business somewhere? I have never heard of them.

 

The question I would have is what do they do with the male calves. I hope they hide them from the Pope. But it is a serious question. In the US the dairy industry has no use for male calves. The calves want to drink their mothers milk(imagine that) and would diminish the profits. There is little or no use for bulls in society except as a meat source. The male calves are usually taken from their mothers and put in two foot wide crates with no room to move. This keeps their flesh nice and tender. They are also fed a liquid diet, milk maybe with some formula, but with a purposeful lack of iron. When there is an iron deficency the flesh remains a milky white color, which those with this taste find very attractive.

 

So myself I will not take milk products and support this. It is easier for me to "renounce" because I can't digest it anyway. I thought for years I was lactose intolerant but some one on these forums pointed out I may be allergic to the casein, the milk protein, instead of the sugar. Not sure but it definetly is a poison to me.

 

Anyway, we should be aware that by buying milk from the regular market, organic or not, we are supporting the slaughter of calves. At the same time we preach cow protection. There is a certain disconnect somewhere.

 

Hare Krsna

 

 

 

[Priitaa 0]

Haribol Theist,

 

The milk company, "United," is not devotee owned. I was not posting it as a first class choice, only for those who buy regular brands of milk anyway. Maybe they would want to switch over to this one if they see it in the stores. It is a good sized company on the east cost, but I am not sure how far it reaches. Still, it reaches more than one state.

 

I do not know how they treat the bulls. Good question. Still, Prabhupada pointed to milk as liquid religiousity and stressed that we drink it in order to properly understand transcendetnal matters. If we offer to Krishna, all karma is taken away. I am not saying this to mimimize any genuine problems with the milk industry, only that the humanitarian issue is not always the same as the religious one. Not to misunderstand. I am all for being humane, I am simply concerned with the importance of keeping brain cells alive to understand Prabhupada and Krishna. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Also, even the cow gets some benefit if it was her milk that was offered.

 

I also realize how the calves are taken away from the mothers (I lived on a couple of devotee farms, which dont do that but spoke about others doing so). Certainly this is awful. I don't know the details regarding what "United" does here, but I think they leave them with their mothers a 'little' longer. Again, I only mentioned this company for those who buy regular brands of milk anyway. If we can't stop the nonsense at least we can decrease it. Best we have our own cows, but so many years have passed and that has yet to happen. I'm a realist.

 

Yes, I know how veal is made too. This whole thing is demoniac but as of yet, so few devotee communities have been able to do something about it. Maybe a couple. That's good, but we are far away from doing so on a larger scale.

 

Buying milk or anything from the nondevotee store will support their many nondevotee activities, from slaighterhouses to alcohol to strange magazines, etc. But Prabhupada was never against purchasing from them, as there is a way to dovetail it. Actually he was asked this question before about milk, cows and mistreatment by the nondevotees, but pointed out how, if we simply offer all our food to Lord Sri Krishna, we are freed from that karmic reaction. Of course, he also wanted us to start our own farm communities, but as I touched on, that's not happening. Anyway, Krishna likes milk, so we are not buying the milk for ourself but for "Him," and we are offering the milk to "Him." We only get the left overs. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Lactose intollerance and allergies are another topic. And a health topic. It needs to be dealt with accordingly. I can drink milk but am a little sensitive to it. Cold -- forget it. I can only disgest hot. Which makes sense anyway as it's the Ayurvedic method.

 

This is also why I buy organic, as the other milk is generally full of hormones and other nonsense. I often wonder if the toxins, chemicals or hormones they add to milk is the larger cause of the allergies and lactose intollerance many are getting in this age of kali, over a food that Srila Sukadeva referred to as "perfect."

 

Many dont know it but even plastic contains hormones, as well as many chemicals from nail polish remover to paint thinner, pesticides, etc. It's a form of estrogen (toxic type), so we have many diseases out there today which are the result of toxic forms of estrogen. (There is healthy estrogen too -- another topic.) These disease effect everyone, so organic milkis the lesser of the evils. And you can read the backs of those cartons to often find out how they treat their cows, bulls, etc. When devotees get it together and start selling their cows milk, let me know. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

YS,

Prtha dd

 

[stonehearted 0]

Do you know if they have a Web site?

[Priitaa 0]

I know nothing about a web site. Matter of fact, even if they did have one, I doubt such info would be on it. The only reason I know what I know is because my kid made friends with the owner. He (owner) is a regular, nonvegetarian person trying to figure out life and mostly caught up in its entrapments. Some might call him a 'hick,' and maybe he is, but he is a hick with some intelligence on this particular topic, tho it took time. It was quite interesting really, to hear about his journey, initially not understanding or relating to the way his father loved the cows - to one where he himself eventually got to that place. Now he loves and takes good care of his cows. I dont know about all the other concerns previously mentioned, just this.

 

YS,

Prtha dd

[theist 1]

"Truly man is the king of beasts, for his brutality exceeds theirs. We live by the death of others: We are burial places!"

 

"I have from an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men" -Leonardo da Vinci

 

The brutality that da Vinci witnessed has only increased.

 

Speaking out on behalf of the voiceless is altruistic. "Altruistic activities done in the spirit of Sri Isopanishad are another form of karma-yoga."-Prabhupada

 

 

[Streetstraw 0]

Some say before Noah's flood all were vegetarian.

Those were the actual "Good Old Days"

In any case, animals today (cows, pigs, chickens) were previously human, but then they lost/forfeited their rights by killing & eating such bodies as they wear today.

"Blood Sweat & Tears" sang "Spinning Wheel & rightly so.

Groups name matches slaughterhouse supporters vikarmik rxns.

Texans kill & drill while professing Christianity.

Could anything be farther from the truth?

Such Mother Earth's blood, suck Mother Cow's blood.

"What goes around comes around" - Hare Krishna

[theist 1]

>>Some say before Noah's flood all were vegetarian.Those were the actual "Good Old Days"

<<

 

Yes,Genesis says the original diet was vegan. And not just for humans animals also. We are along way from that garden.

 

 

>>In any case, animals today (cows, pigs, chickens) were previously human, but then they lost/forfeited their rights by killing & eating such bodies as they wear today.

"Blood Sweat & Tears" sang "Spinning Wheel & rightly so.<<

 

Yes, we want to educate to stop the cycle, or at least pull a few from it.

 

Still animal rights exist. To say its there karma is correct, but that doesn't free humans from the responsibility of recognizing their rights. Let the devas figure out which soul takes the cow form destined for slaughter and which ones remain in the pastuering grounds.

 

>>Groups name matches slaughterhouse supporters vikarmik rxns.

Texans kill & drill while professing Christianity.<<

 

Why Texans? The whole world and especially the US is tied into fossil fuel comsumption and animal slaughter.

 

>>Could anything be farther from the truth?

Such Mother Earth's blood, suck Mother Cow's blood.

"What goes around comes around" - Hare Krishna <<

 

Even taking Mother Cow's blood in the form of milk is supporting cow slaughter, in the west at least. Yes so let's send some cow protection around, and when the results from that come back we will offer them also to Krsna.

 

Jai Gopala!

 

[theist 1]

From belief.net

 

 

I just ran across this quote when researching the topic of "honor killings" in Palestine. Just another social ill that needs to be confronted, but not on this board.

 

I have heard the name Eric Hoffer and feel as though I should know who he is, but I can't say that I do. Anyway I love this quote.

 

"The mystery of our time is the inability of decent people to get angry."---Eric Hoffer

 

I think anger is an emotion that has its palce when properly directed. This is different then just jumping in everyone's face. But as Animal Rights activists we have a right to be pissed off when we see billions of innocent being's tortured and slaughtered needlessly by our greedy and ignorant non-caring fellow humans.

 

If we speak out too passively that is OK with them as we are then easy to ignore. If we make our point loudly and strongly they will criticize us for being to pushy and spoiling their appetite. This is their way of avoiding the point. There are counter-productive excesses according to time and place however, and we should be wise in assessing any situation.

 

Animal slaughter is not just a personal lifestyle choice. "Each to his own." BS. It is a violent crime against other living beings and nature.

 

We need to be internaly resolved that this topic is not going away. In fact we will only become louder and more educated.

 

One should follow their own nature. If one is an academic, work in that way. If one is inclined to street theater do that. Just do something consistently.

 

"I'm not sorry to ruin your lunch sir. Why the hell are you eating murdered cow?"

 

[stonehearted 0]

I remember reading a long time ago that, when asked why he was a vegetarian, G. B. Shaw replied, "Oh, come! That boot is on the other leg. Why should you call me to account for eating decently? If I battened on the scorched corpses of animals, you might well ask me why I did that." Shaw also said, "Custom will reconcile people to any atrocity." Another from Shaw: "I look my age; and I am my age. It is the other people who look older than they are. What can you expect from people who eat corpses and drink spirits?" And one more: "When a man wants to murder a tiger, it's called sport; when the tiger wants to murder him it's called ferocity."

 

I occasionally confront my students about their eating habits. I do it with a smile and acknowledge that I'm in a small minority, but I do it nevertheless. When I was in graduate school, I wrote a paper attacking the slaughter of animals for food on several bases. My professor, a German immigrant, paid me what he admitted was his highest praise; he said the paper had ruined his family's "Thanksgiving gorge."