Disciplinic line of succession

[Manni]

Hi people... Ive been studying the ISKCON tradition with much interest over the past few years but I am still unclear on a couple of points because of my lack of knowledge on actual scripture.

 

One of the things I've been wondering about recently is the fact that Bhagvatam and like texts explicitly reveal the names of avatars, prophets and even the names of their parents etc. I understand that Srila Prabhupad is in the disciplinic line of succession (as explained in the first few pages of His Bhagavad Gita, As It Is) but is He or any of the previous 'members' (apart from Caitanya Mahaprabhu) named explicitly in any of the texts?

 

Thanks... Hari Bol...

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Though Avataras (incarnations of God) are named, or predicted, in texts such as the Srimad Bhagavatam, the line of succession (composed of saints) is not predicted. One identifies a saint based on his qualities, as described in the second chapter of Bhagavad Gita.

 

The line of disciplic succession (guru-sishya parampara) is just a chain of teachers and students going back to ancient times. It is through this chain that the spiritual knowledge is preserved and propagated.

 

[raga]

In addition to what JNDas stated, we should note that the disciplic succession presented in the Bhagavad Gita As It Is is not by any means the only succession which exists, though it is the particular succession which ISKCON recognizes as its own. Aside them, there are countless successions of qualified gurus and disciples in the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition.

 

In the Caitanya Caritamrita, the movement of Sri Caitanya is compared to a big tree, of which Caitanya Himself is the trunk, His prominent associates being its branches, and in turn their followers being its sub-branches, and so forth.

 

Aside the ISKCON-tradition and it's mother organization, the Gaudiya Matha founded by Bhaktivedanta's guru Bhaktisiddhanta, there are a number of old traditional lineages started by Nityananda Prabhu, Advaita Acarya, Gadadhara Pandit, Gopala Bhatta Gosvami, Raghunatha Bhatta Gosvami, Lokanatha Gosvami and Narottama Das Thakura, Srinivasa Acarya, Syamananda and Rasikananda, Vakresvara Pandit and Gopal Guru Gosvami, and so forth.

 

Who can count all of the branches and sub-branches of the blissful Caitanya tree?

 

[Guest guest]

Also ,the vedic texts are not limited to those allready written, the works of the self realized acharya are considered shastra as well.

 

So any shastra written by an acharya that glorifies

Srila Prabhupada can be considered as shastric evidence.

[raga]

What Shiva has said can be easily abused. We must understand that there are gradations of authority, the writings of the Six Gosvamis of Vrindavan being foundational when considering the precepts of the sampradaya.

 

The problem we are faced with is that we have hardly any objective means to verify the self-realizedness of an acarya. Hence we cannot universally uplift the writings of a particular acarya into the same status as the foundational scriptures of the sampradaya, although the students of a particular guru may consider the guru's writings equally authoritative for them.

[Guest guest]

I disgree, you stated that we have hardly any objective means to verify an acharya, or what he/she writes.

 

the test is simple , the writings that are in line with the previous acharyas, the parampara.

 

this is the whole point of the parampara, we can check mine or your authority by checking with the parampara.

 

In fact if one is not an acharya, if he faithfully represents the message of the personality of godhead,

then that writing can be accepted as revealed scripture,

this is why the person bhagavat is given preference

over the book bhagavat, the person is an open conduit to the personality of godhead.

 

The so called danger is in the ignorance of the person who is reading, to him the responsibilty is given to

check and study the message of the writer to the previous acharyas who have been accepted throughout time.

 

this is the essence of our parampara, to faithfully represent the message of the parampara, by this endeavor

the devotee becomes empowered as Guru, and the personality of godhead speaks through him/her.

 

The danger is mitigated by the sincerity of the seeker,

For the sincere seeker is led to the fountain of truth, and the cheater is led to a cheater.

 

[raga]

If I start pointing out obvious mistakes in the writings of someone you consider an acharya, contradictions with shastra and with the writings of earlier acharyas, what will you do, then?

[Guest guest]

don't worry yer purty little head now missy...

 

those who are sincere in their desire to understand and

be of he p to god, they will be guided by the hand of the lord.

no worries brah

 

By the grace of god one gets guru

by the grace of guru one gets god