Sri Krsna: 'when God himself falls in love' [From Sanga]

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

S a n g a

 

Tuesday, April 17, Disappearance of Srila Vrindavan das Thakur

 

"Krsna lila is human-like and human society best facilitates this

human-like lila of God. We are taught to love Krsna but Krsna is God when

God himself falls in love."

 

Q&A discussion with Swami B.V. Tripurari.

 

Q. While chanting I began to feel my body vibrate, and fall forward

uncontrollably. It was kind of frightening. What do you think happened?

 

A. Spiritual bliss is not frightening. It is prefaced by sattva guna and

the comforting sense of unity with all things. In its budding stage it

brings cold, joyful tears to the eyes and a sense of detachment. I am not

sure what happened to you. I suggest you pay closer attention to your

chanting.

 

Q. I have read where certain saints in India have had a divine vision

(darshan) of Sri Krsna yet they did not appear to become Vaisnavas, and

even more, each saint is saying different things about the real position of

Krsna. How is this?

 

A. Krsna is like a valuable jewel. If you look at a beautiful jewel from

different angles you will see its different facets. Similarly, Krsna has

many aspects. As persons surrender to him, he reveals himself accordingly.

He may even give darshan to a nondevotee for reasons of his own. In Kamsa's

wrestling arena he was seen by different persons

in different ways. For example, yogis saw him as a manifestation of

Paramatma.

 

Q. What is the main cause of violence and aggression?

 

A. The cause is lust, unsatisfied desire. Krsna says, 'kama esa krodha

esa, rajo-guna-samudbhavah' (Bg. 3.37). The dissatisfaction derived from

the pursuit of material desire transforms into anger. Passion transforms

into ignorance, lust into anger.

 

Q. In a recent Sanga you said that the residents of the spiritual world

are anxious to join Krsna's nara-lila because it is like a movie 'shot on

location.' Why would the Lord's lila in the material world have this

special quality?

 

A. Because Krsna lila is human-like. Krsna is God, whom we are taught to

love. But Krsna is God when God himself falls in love. Human society best

facilitates this human-like lila of God. In the prakata lila here on Earth,

Krsna can actually kill demons in youthful sport, whereas in the aprakata

lila there are no demons present. Here he can perform the lila of taking

birth, growing to boyhood and adolescence. All of this makes the prakata

lila sweeter and more charming. It is called nara-lila as opposed to

Krsna's deva-lila in his aprakata pastimes of Goloka.

 

Q. I found this verse in Sri Caitanya Caritamrita by Kavi Karnapura. It

does not appear to agree with your contention that only the jiva is saguna

Brahman. "In this way, that one eternal atman will remain as shesha (this

one eternal atman will exist after the dissolution of the worlds), it is

the Brahman with upadhi (guna) that emerges out of upadhi, otherwise that

Brahman with upadhi is also called jiva." (6.67) [Excerpted from an ongoing

discussion thread.]

 

A. Yes, in this verse the jiva is being identified as saguna Brahman. But

how you can use this to form a conclusion about Mahaprabhu's entire

philosophy is beyond me. In this verse, the word guna has various meanings.

Vaisnavas don't usually call Krsna 'saguna brahma.' But when they do, they

don't mean that God has material qualities, but rather spiritual qualities.

This verse uses neither the word guna or brahma, but upadhi and atma,

which, though parallel concepts, are not necessarily identical. The verse

must be interpreted in light of the entire siddhanta of Mahaprabhu.

 

Over and over again it is stressed throughout all of the biographies of

Mahaprabhu and in all of the books of his followers and their commentaries

that the jiva is an eternal unit of consciousness and the plurality of

souls in this world is not merely a result of Brahman being influenced by

material nature. According to Gaudiya Vedanta, the world is a

transformation of the sakti (maya sakti) of Brahman interacting with

another of Brahman's saktis (jiva sakti).

 

Previously I cited evidence from Padma Purana regarding the saktis of God

in relation to the Gaudiya understanding of the Gita (jiva bhuta maha baho

yayedam dharyate jagat). In spite of this and the thousands of statements

regarding the nature of the jiva in Gaudiya literature, its Vedantic basis

of sakti parinam vada, as opposed to Sankara's vivartavada, etc. you want

to think that Mahaprabhu's teaching supports the idea that the jiva is

actually Brahman in every respect, Brahman that is under the influence of

material nature thus appearing as many souls. Mahaprabhu taught that the

jiva and material nature are Brahman in the sense that they are saktis of

Brahman and thus one with Brahman and different from Brahman simultaneously

(acintya bhedabheda).

 

You seem to be following the conclusions of Aurobindo, which is fine. But

his conclusions are not the same as those of Mahaprabhu's followers. I

suggested that you read read Tattva-sandarbha if you are truly interested

in understanding the Vedanta of the followers of Mahaprabhu. Have you done

that? Read his followers' commentaries on the Gita as well. According to

Vaisnava commentaries, the Gita speaks of a plurality of eternal souls

beginning with verse 2.12. According to the Vaisnava commentaries, the Gita

verses that seem to speak of singularity are actually speaking of a

singular class of souls.

 

Not only the Gaudiyas, but all Vaisnavas sects understand the scripture to

be speaking of an eternal plurality of souls whose individuality is not

merely a product of association with material nature. Read the Gita

commentaries of Madhva, Ramanuja and others. Your conclusions drawn from

the Gita are different from those of the followers of Mahaprabhu and all

other Vaisnava sects. Surely you don't think that yours is the only correct

understanding?