Debate series

[dasanudas 0]

Sorry for the duel answers I was in the back room typing and didn't see Audarya Prabhus answer to you before i posted.

[Janus 0]

Hmm, what's a religious life?

Last Sunday I turned on the radio and the first song playing was My Sweet Lord by George Harrison. After that I went on Harinam, singing Hare Krsna. It's best when it's done in congregation, but with no devotees about. Long, long, long ago Bahudak, a great congregational chanter said that I had the finest voice in the movement of it's type, it hasn't changed much. So I walked past about 10,000 souls in the sapace of two hours singing Hare Krsna. Is that spiritual? Not from me, but Krsna's Name is spiritual and can grant all and the greatest benediction and so I like for people to hear it, and with no devotees about, what else can I do when its either me chanting it or they do not hear Krsna's name.

 

Do I know that Krsna's name is spiritual? Yes, if experience accounts for anything, I do, for I have seen people in their 80's jump towards the sound of Krsna's name as if they were sprinters dashing off at the sound od the start gun at the race. I have seen peoples eyes roll up in ecstacy at Krsna's name, and seen them almost faint. I have heard a tiger in it's deep seated roar chant Krsna, so many things.

 

To live a spiritual life means to live in the spirit. Chant Hare Krsna and live. Chant Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare and watch as your soul comes alive, in knowledge, in eternity, and in ecstacy. Chant Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare like a little lost kid crying for it's parent and Krsna will come and you will never feel lost or lonely again, and you will never lack for pleasure, and you will never die. That is my opinion.

 

[Janus 0]

>>Janus prabhu,There is a lot of reality in what you said. Imagine our present factions ever conceding that another might by right and they wrong.Just longing for days of yore I guess.<<<

 

You are not alone in longing for the days of yore Maitreya prabhu.

 

"When it was honorable to accept defeat and grow by the experience and the victor sought not the defeat of an opponent as the goal, but rather the resulting unity."

 

I must have been dreaming.

 

“For the Welsh to distinguish between myth and history has always been a difficult exercise.” Emyr Humphries

 

No, my friend, you were not just dreaming. Perhaps you are not Welsh, but you are perhaps of the same stock of which Srila Prabhupada referred to when he mentioned our war like spirits. You were simply innocent, not understanding the true goal of the aggressor. He must defeat the guardians of devotion, but that is only secondary, and he prefers to enlist them in his own service, but first he must cut them off from their head, the arms, the legs of the social body from its head.

ISKCON has the GBC as it’s head. Were it a wise head, a sagacious head, a head that had been concerned about the welfare of it’s social body all along, there would be no question of anyone being able to cut its head off, it would be to well protected and supported, it would simply be to strong.

Srila Narayana Maharaja commended Kirtananada as Mr. Iskcon, and still, as recent as a year or two ago was still telling his diciples that it was ok for them to attend ISKCON functions. Srila Narayana Maharaja gambled, gambled that he could gain ascendency in ISKCON by favoring it's corrupt leadership, and Srila Narayana Maharaja lost.

 

Now SNM is in my opinion; attempting a hostile takeover of ISKCON, gambling again (I feel).

He is hoping, I feel, that ISKCON will be to weak to stop him, that he can convert enough of it’s members and one time members to swing over to him so that he can accomplish a bloodless take over or a coup-de- tat. That is my opinion.

 

>Look next for my idea on how to implement world peace in our lifetime.

 

Jaya Prabhupada,

YS MC

 

Jaya Prabhupada

 

HMS JANUS

 

 

[Jagat 1]

Narayan Maharaj may accomplish a coup-d'état, but what then? What happens when he dies? Same thing.

 

There is NO chance of his being successful. Believe it or not, Iskcon has made certain institutional progress since 1977. Spiritual progress is another matter.

 

Jagat

[kailasa 0]

Thank Janus.

 

>Believe it or not, Iskcon has made certain institutional progress since 1977. Spiritual progress is another matter.

Spiritual progress he has made even more than organizational. Therefore not bad distinguishes. Yes purely that who considers that that SP is not present here? It is an error. Spiritual life it not the game in badminton.

 

 

 

[Janus 0]

...I was using SNM's praise of Kirtananada as point and cause as to why SNM could not be trusted. I am including the full text of the post in case you are interested.

 

“I see my Gurus as uttama also but I don't expect all to see them in that way.”

Puru das

 

No, you don’t “see” your guru’s as uttama, you believe that they areuttamas, but the fact of the matter is that you do not see, or know that theyare uttamas, unless you yourself are an uttama, your siska guru SNM hasexplained this quite clearly in his book “The Essence of All Advice” (in whichhe also, and again quite clearly, explains his rationalizations for attemptingthe takeover of ISKCON), in the following, from Chapter Three, Sloka 5 & 6,in his conversation with his disciples:

SNM: It may be that I am a madhyama-kanistha, bas, not more than that.THIS I KNOW. Sometimes I’m in the stage of kanistha and sometimes entering intomadhyama, so madhyama-kanistha.

Devotee: But we know that you are…

SNM: But you cannot realize it because you are not liberated

So, no Puru, you do not “see” or know, you simply believe, just like hewants you to believe.

Because you are a Westerner, and an American, your general tendency is toconsider that you deserve the best, the very best, the very best that money canbuy, the uttama. No wonder that about two years ago when I was telling you howbadly that SNM wanted ISKCON that instead of having any intimate understandingof your siska gurus mind, you were protesting vehemently and expressingmayavadi philosophy. Since then he has come out quite blatently with his claimthat he is Srila Prabhupadas heir, and thus, that he is the heir to ISKCON.Even were he an uttama adhikari (which he is not the only one that knows thathe is not), there would be nothing wrong with having such a desire. The problemis though that unless one really is an uttama adhikari there could be somethingvery, very wrong about trying to take over ISKCON, especially with a policythat puts godbrothers at one anothers throats (ISKCON vs Rtvik), sponsorsdisunity (divide and conquer) and the continued attrition of SP’s devotees,what to say of the damage that may be done through the difference inpresentation occasioned by something less than a pure devotee and a mahajanabeing at the helm of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhus mission in the West under theguise of a pure devotee of Krsna?

The problem that SNM isencountering with you and your ilk, is that he cannot drum in the point to youthat he is in all actuality exactly what he claims to be, a kanistha-madhyama.Were he to do so, and were he to do so successfully due to your Westernconsideration that you only deserve an uttama…well, you’d be out of there in awhoosh, at least, that is if you didn’t pause long enough to stone him, for hisimagined betrayal of you by making you believe that he is an uttama. Actuallyhe’s admitted to you his status, has tried to tell you, has told you that he isa kanistha-madhyama, but you will not listen to this, for even though amadhyama, for want of an uttama, is capable of leading ISKCON, you wouldn’thear of it, so:

Devotee: Maharaja, if you’re saying that you’re kanistha, then you cannottell him he’s not liberated.

SNM: What can we do! Accha.

God bless him. No, a kanistha cannot tell, but a madhyma can sometimes tell,and he sometimes can’t, but he can tell who is a kanistha, because from themadhyama stage one can “see” a persons positioning within the modes, and canalso understand their mentalities, without them ever having to say a singlething. I have insufficient knowledge of where this is spoken about in shastra,I am speaking from experience, from the experience of “seeing” that suchpersons as Hansadtuta, Jayatirtha, Rameswara, etc., were situated in the mixedmodes of passion and ignorance while at the same time they were being worshipedas being pure devotees, and while at the same time they were being acclaimed tobe greatly advanced Vaisnavas by the many unfortunates, and by also one who atthe time knew better. SNM claimed Kirtananda as “Mr ISKCON”. Nori J. Mustermentioned this in her book Betrayal of Spirit (which my sister bought fromBhramananda who recommended it), and mentioned it to he father, who saw rightthrough it. Nori did not however, nor did most of the devotees and Kirtananandaquoted this and other glowing praise emanating from the lotus lips of SNM abouthim to his disciples and to anyone else who would listen. Had not SNM givensuch glowing praise of demons, murderers, child molesters, who he knew at leastwere unqualified, then some devotees of these persons might have left a littlesooner, some people might not be dead, and some children might not have beenraped.

SNM gambled. Had SNM, at the time that he first realized it, then claimedthat he was then the only capable person available to act in SP’s stead. If hehad told the kids that they were not qualified to Intiate upon their ownbehalf, that at best some few of them were entering into madhyama (Now he isclaiming that they were never anything more than kanistha), but that none ofthem were capable to act as spiritual heads of ISKCON, instead of claiming theopposite, that they were advanced devotees, then he would not have to claim theopposite now, that they never were, something that he must have known then, butthat he did not reveal, because?

SNM gambled, and SNM lost. So what’s he going for now? Two out of three?

This really isn’t that much addressed to Puru (who I consider to be apower hungry manipulative liar), as it is to the rest of you who havn’t made upyour minds yet, or figured out why SNM is such a topic of conversation, whileother guru’s aren’t. The fact of the matter is that no other guru’s are out toacquire ISKCON to the degree that SNM, for no other gurus are possessed of suchenvy of SP as Srila Narayana is.

 

Ys, Bhakta George