So what is a workable model?

[Gauracandra 1]

I’m posing this question to get your thoughts on what would be a workable model that would unite Gaudiya Vaisnava’s toward a common cause. It seems today there are so many different camps. We have Iskcon, various branches of Gaudiya Math, Tripurari Swami’s following, Siddhasvarupananda’s group, Narasingha Maharaja’s following, followers of Sri Lalita Prasad, Rtviks etc…. Often there is talk that we should all cooperate to move forward Sri Caitanya’s movement. But how can this be done in a practical and verifiable manner?

 

There is one attempt in the World Vaisnava Association, but members of that group don’t really get along all that well. Plus I really don’t see any real projects being spearheaded under the auspices of the WVA (I may just be ignorant of them). In addition, this group does exclude other Gaudiya camps (if I’m not mistaken followers of Lalita Prasad are not included for instance).

 

Are we just being too utopian to think that we can truly work together? There is a lot of distrust on all sides I think. So what is a workable solution? Are there any other religious models we can utilize? For instance, I have always been curious as to how the Jewish religion manages its affairs. Are all synagogues separate or is there some united organization they work in to forward common objectives?

 

This is what I think has always been India’s greatest weakness. Its religious systems by nature create so much diversity that common ground often can’t be reached. I’m one who does not believe that diversity is by itself a strength. In fact, I would argue it more often than not is a weakness. So is it even possible to create a workable model that maintains focus of energy in the face of growing diversity? I’ve done the easy part by asking the question, I’ll leave the hard part of solutions to anyone who wants to respond

 

Gauracandra

 

[Maitreya 0]

Gauracandra,

 

You start off some interesting threads.When I got just to your first question the word compassion came into my head loud and clear.

 

When the welfare of other suffering living beings is seen as more important than all these petty little squabbles progress will be made.

 

Some differences may actually be seen as important.Okay, so work separately.But work we must.MUST.

 

I have come to think that it is not necessary for groups to group together.Working separately but with mutual respect may be Krishna's plan.

 

Groups should be able to cooperatively put on large festivals, like Ratha Yatra.Chant dance and feast together, however.

 

There is alot more at stake here than the pride of anyone's Math.

 

Lord Gauranga's movment is based on compassion.Compassion is the word.Acarya's have a big stock of it and we are meant to help them express it.In that way we receive it and learn to feel it ourselves.

 

We really don't need much in the way of big conferences and meetings with endless "resolutions and no solutions",we just have to get our hearts back into it.

 

YS MC

[dasanudas 0]

Prabhu, if you can come up with a workable model, I'll personally offer you 3 arotis a day. Now is that an incentive or what.

[premananda 0]

Hari Bol!

 

I think it will be difficult to unite all Gaudiya Vaishnavas in a preaching mission. There are too many differences between the various organizations and paramparas. ISKCON has for example forbidden their members to associate with "non-ISKCON entities" such as Gaudiya Math gurus, etc.

 

WVA seems like a very tolerant movement. But, as mentioned, they do not accept non-GM/non-ISKCON Vaishnavas as members, as far as I know.

 

The traditional Gaudiyas are not so interested in traveling to the West for preaching, especially not Babajis, who are expected to stay in the Holy Dhamas and not move around too much. They are also busy with taking care of the disciples they have, doing bhajana, preaching in the Dhama, and so on.

 

P D

[Jagat 1]

I don't think that there is any express ban on non-GM groups in the WVA. It is more a de facto exclusion. If any non-GM person is willing to cooperate with GM, they may, but they should probably not expect cooperation in return.

 

The point is a good one, Gauracandra. Iskcon has gone the furthest in successfully creating a large institution that manages to harness individual aspirations under a single banner.

 

Siddhanta Saraswati was likely trying to achieve the same goal, but failed because of the conflict between the principle of "guru independence" and institutional demands on the individual.

 

This was the root of the Sridhar/Iskcon split. Sridhar Maharaj felt that gurus would want "their own room" and that it would be very difficult to reconcile the conflicting demands. Iskcon was forced by circumstance and adherence to Prabhupada's desire to control guru independence to the point where with one or two exceptions, gurus have been reduced to a "priestly" rather than "prophetic" role.

 

This is not necessarily a bad thing. To some extent, the same thing happens in any institution that survives to a second generation.

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Jagat (edited 06-04-2001).]

[atma 0]

I know quite well Paramadwaita maharaja (Alanath before). He started his reform movement in 1983 from Colombia and later on he moved away from Iskcon, taking over the temples in that country. Many devotees left their gurus (after reading Maharaja's paper about all the wrong things in Iskcon, gurus fall down, etc). In the beginning PM took the devotees with him to take shelter of Sridhar Maharaja and later on he started giving initiations on his own. That was the funny part for me because in his paper he criticized devotees in Iskcon because THEY believed that they were gurus, they didn't just play the role, they believe it.

I'm talking all this because PM is one of the main persons in the WVA and I know as a fact that he doesn't want his disciples to associate with Narayana Maharaja. One of my closest friends left him for NM, and he is very upset about it. So much for a big family and take shelter of the senior vaisnavas. For me the problem for unity is the desire to be guru, everyone want to became one and that create competition and envy when the person is not completely pure. Is no way for cooperation when you're fighting for disciples.

[dasanudas 0]

Originally posted by Maitreya:

Gauracandra,

 

 

I have come to think that it is not necessary for groups to group together.Working separately but with mutual respect may be Krishna's plan.

 

Lord Gauranga's movment is based on compassion.Compassion is the word.Acarya's have a big stock of it and we are meant to help them express it.In that way we receive it and learn to feel it ourselves.

 

YS MC

For there to be true unity in diversity Srila GM used to say we must have common guardian, common master, then everything is harmonized around that centre common to all, no problem with difference, if it's all working for the same goal in mutual respect.

Here's a little snippet from 'Absolute Harmony' SSM

 

Disciple: How can we practically understand and apply the principle of harmony?

Srila Sridhara Maharaj: In your conception what does harmony mean?

Disciple: I understand that strictly speaking, harmony is a musical term referring to different musical tones which are in balance with each other.

Srila Sridhara Maharaj: In a choir or an orchestra, many instruments are being played or many singers are singing so the variety will be a credit to the harmony. Different types of instruments are being played but there must be harmony there, and the highest harmony depends upon how the many different instruments are playing, preparing the music, yet they must all be attuned to the conductor. So sacrifice, dedication in its highest degree, will be of such nature that it can accommodate and tolerate all difference. Therefore by tolerance, harmony will increase. The highest type of harmony can tolerate any type of opposition, it is all-accommodating. In this way, the highest conception of dedication means there is the accommodation of an infinite variety within it, and its sweetness will increase more and more.

So there are different instruments making different tunes from different strata of sound but they are all tuned to one. Plurality is connected to one center and is giving some sweet, soothing feeling of sentiment.

Similarly we can see that the earth and all the planets are each moving in their individual ways but are connected to another force. The moon is moving around the earth, and there are so many planets moving in relation to other planets which in turn are moving in their own way, but all are moving around the sun. Variety meets unity in different planes of movement. That is harmony. This applies everywhere, including the plane of color and the plane of sound. Many branches meet together in the trunk of a tree, the trunk harmonizes the many leaves, this is the movement of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. We must see a common master, and work around the will of that master or conductor.

Disciple: In the Absolute sense does discord bring harmony?

Srila Sridhara Maharaj: In the highest Absolute there is room to accommodate everything, otherwise it can’t be Absolute. If we consider something to be Absolute but can still find something outside of that, then it cannot be Absolute. The Absolute accommodates everything, in Him even the enemy is our friend. The center is everywhere, there is no circumference. In that plane only God can be traced everywhere and He cannot be our enemy.

 

 

 

[Maitreya 0]

Originally posted by atma:

For me the problem for unity is the desire to be guru, everyone want to became one and that create competition and envy when the person is not completely pure. Is no way for cooperation when you're fighting for disciples.

I AGREE.Mahaprabhu warned about desiring numbers of disciples.It's in one sense a fine line between wanting disciples, as in attracting others to Krishna, and wanting disciples as in attracting them to yourself.From another angle it is the widest of gulfs.

 

To the degree that one is disciple, that one is guru to others.

 

The problem is exaserbated by listening to decades old gossip.Instead we should tune our hearing to the Lord in the heart.

[dasanudas 0]

It's a delicate subject matter talking about our Gaurdiya acharyas. I know for a fact that Srila Sridhara Maharaj only ever wanted to harmonize differences and he was always respected as a harmonizer by a majority of his Godbrothers. He tried his best up to a point where he had to separate himself from the overwhelming separate interest. At this time he established SCSM. He lived a simple semi-reclusive life for some time untill many of his godbrothers came to try and draw him out to preach, including a dharsan of Lord Nityananda Prabhu who inspired him to give the treasure that he carried within his heart. Amongst them ACBSP and many others whom he gave Diksa and sanyas to, tried to engage him in their respective preaching missions. But in his own words he was a back-pushing man.

Very humble and simple in habit by nature.

It wasn't untill the westerners discovered him thru SP that Srila Govinda Maharaj begged him to give initiation to these floundering souls who arrived like refugees on his doorstep. Even tho he was reluctant to take many disciples SGM, along with Badri Narayan Bhagavat Bhusan his secretary, convinced him it was an emergency situation, so they opened up the door to the western wave of dedicated enthusiasm.

He took what may be considered a handful of these refugees,(My guess of apr. 500 to 1000 western disciples) my insignificant self included, under his wing.

I personally liked the feeling of serving in a simpler, more intimate family of devotees who were still linked to the tree of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur, without the divisions of the Gaudiya Math or the difficulty of who would steer Iskcon. I felt very safe and assured every thing was in good hands, and I still do to this day.

Even tho there are a number of missions that have come from Srila Guru Maharajs disciples, SCSW math is stable under the direction of Srila Govinda Maharaj

and has flourished multifold thru his dedication. He has increased the glory of the Chaitanya Saraswat line, extending Guru Maharajs' grace to thousands more thru apr. 50 centres on every continent of the globe.

I've personally come to except that the branches of the Caitanya tree have their own way of growing accordingly and the diversity has helped the movement flourish as much as it may have disturbed or stunted it originally, most sincere sadhakas are directed to their line and mood of devotion thru the Lord in their heart, and find a way to engage in suitable service, and many have matured considerably to take full responsibility since those volcanic beginnings.Apart from a few of these fanatical pockets it's all going on steadily overall.

I was once sitting talking to a Brijabasi in Loi Bazaar. And I asked what have you seen sitting there in the heart of Vrndavan for 30 years, you must have seen them all come and go, expecting some far out mystical tale which I'm sure there are countless, this devotee laughed and answered immediately, "Altho so many vaisnavas, maybe even millions, have walked this road from every conceivable faith, line, math, sampradaya, country, province, searching for Krsna, and altho they are all different they actually felt a common bond with each other in Krsna, and altho they even may talk one against each other they never come to a ruinous feud, he said they come back again and again. Unlike religious rivallries around the world they never come to war." And he thought that was the most amazing miracle of all. It made me stop and reflect for a moment and have a laugh with him.

[JRdd 0]

Even before I came to the sentence in which you mentioned volcanic beginnings, I was struck with your descriptions which reminded me of houw, after a volcanic eruption, there may seem to be chaos and pollution in the area, but when everything settles down again, the land, with all the volcanic dust, becomes more viable than before. Small pots of this dust is sold by nurseries at great cost, so strong and healthy are its properties. I love on a street that floods every few years (only twice since 1990), when the river freakishly overflows, and a lifelong resident was telling me how wonderfully everything grows because of it.

 

Mr Das, I enjoyed reading your history, and the perspective of how you felt in such a small secure clan, which I had never heard before (regarding joining the smaller family of Srila Sridhar Maharaj). I also remember how Srila Prabhupada always wanted these smaller families, within the larger family, as you yourself have described in the above posts. This is how it felt to me when I joined, and what joy there was too in meeting for big festivals, as Maitreya has mentioned, and seeing the larger family.

 

Compassion is the key to harmony and unity, I believe, as Maitreya has said. My heart leaped to see this keyword here. Now when harmony is discussed on an absolute level, does this mean that the diversity includes also anger. Can anger be reconciled in a harmonious way? These posts are giving me pause for reflection, I already made up my mind last night concerning my recent dealings with Valaya. I am now pondering about the appropiateness of anger, as we do know that anger for the sake of the truth does have its place; however, maybe my own compassion was tainted by my anger. And my question is not only about anger fitting in with the whole harmonious performance, but also about offensiveness to the acaryas fitting into the scheme of things. I accept the words, but find them inconceivable to some extent, when Srila Sridhara Maharaja says even the enemy fits in. (sorry, can't remember the exact words)

 

Anyway, thanks for these posts, all of you who are seeking to find ways to practice unity in diversity for the sake of livingentitykind.

 

ys

Jayaradhe