all humans are built on chemicals , any one dont agree?

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

if I simple say we are all nothing but chemicals substances.

those who dont know how livng organisms work may not agree with me.

but the fact is we are build on living cells which is composed of RNA and DNA.

RNA and DNA are nothing but complex chemical substances.

we take chemicals as food , we take oxigen gas for breathing.we drink water which is nothing but oxigen and hydrogen. life has naturally evolved from only six chemical substances

C - carbon

H - hydrogen

O - oxigen

P - phoshorus

S - sulphur

N - nitrogen

all the magic is happening because of the above chemicals

even concept of GOD (myth) came from those chemicals only.

who invented GOD , only humans. so humans species is the great on earth no one else.

[Chelaaraam]

<font color="blue"> Pranam Guest Jee !

Yes you are physically right. You say regarding the body only. But the combination of these CHOPSN makes some GOD (Generator Organizer and Destroyer) particles also. We are the chemical engines and the consciousness, the thought, the SOUL operates this Engine. Without Consciousness, the chemical substances are inactive. Are the CHOPSN act for the life and divinity or soul acts with these substances ? What do you think ? </color>

<font color="brown">

Om Namah Shivay ! </color>

[narayanadasa]

Jai Sriman Narayana:

 

Even as per science an inert body does not change its state unless an external force is applied.i.e. an inert body continues to be stationary if it already is or continues to be in motion if it already is unless an external force forces it to change its state Now, chemicals did not come from nowhere. What is the very 1st chemical and what was its state? They were created on account of some external force. This force is outside... just because it is not visible to the naked eye, or just because you cant feel it, just because you cant hear it doesnt mean it doesnt exist. This force is caused by the soul which has consciousness.

 

Secondly, you are telling God does not exist. But, can you please try and define what you think God is and then say he doesnt exist? Or is it that since you dont know, you can simply say God (as somebody defined) does not exist. I dont know you or your father or your mother, so you all dont exist! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

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This is one of the best explanations of why God allows pain and suffering that I have seen. It's an explanation other people will understand.

 

A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed.

Barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation. They talked about so many things and various subjects. When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said: "I don't believe that God exists."

 

Why do you say that?" asked the customer

 

"Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't exist. Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children? If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain. I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things."

 

The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument.

 

The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop. Just after he left the barbers shop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair & an un trimmed beard. He looked dirty and unkempt. The customer turned back and entered the barbershop again and he said to the barber:

 

"You know what? Barbers do not exist."

 

"How can you say that?" asked the surprised barber. "I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!No!" the customer exclaimed. "Barbers don't exist because if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards like that man outside."

 

"Ah, but barbers DO exist! What happens is, people do not come to me."

"Exactly!" affirmed the customer. "That's the point! God, too, DOES exist! What happens, is, people don't go to Him and do not look for Him. That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."

 

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[Guest guest]

Guest ! How are the chemicals formed ? Automatically ? If so which or who did the automation of that ? Baisahab, think and rethink. you will get the answer. Just debates wont give the answer. Rise the questions to yourself> who mixed the chemicals u said to grow it up? a sperm grows so big man weighing 60 kilos by just eating some thing in its life? who taught the digestive system to digest? who asked the kidney to separate ur impurities (not from the mind) from your pure blood? How Heart starts beating for the first time in a foetus? We are all machines baai sahab,

"Aham Yanthro hrishikesha - tvam yenthrikila keshava" Meaning - "Oh lord, I am a engiene and you are the driver"

 

THINK.

[Sephiroth]

all the magic is happening because of the above chemicals even concept of GOD (myth) came from those chemicals only.

 

IF you could be nice enough to answer two questions :

 

1. What is chemical combinations for the Individual Consciousness which all humans, and even some animals like Dolphins and the Great Apes have?

 

2. WHY, even so a person born as twins - genetically similar and grow up in the same environment, get same educations etc can have two different Consciousness?

 

By right, and if it is true that all humans are mere chemicals, the twins should be identical in nature and everything.

 

And finally,

 

3. Why does Permanent Death occurs?

If humans are mere chemical compounds which can be found in Nature, it is possible to replenish their reducing chemical compounds and even prevent Death.

[Guest guest]

"all the magic is happening because of the above chemicals even concept of GOD (myth) came from those chemicals only. "

 

I will agree with you if you answer this ques:

 

what is the difference between a dead body and living body?

the same chemicals are present in a dead body also. same carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, water, calcium etc are present in dead body as they are in living body. So my question is:

what is that 'chemical' which is missing in the dead body?

 

If you dont have an answer, let me answer it for you:

 

It is not a chemical. It is the spirit soul

[Sephiroth]

Science which Westerners (and some Hindus) believe today is Blind Science, which born about 250 years ago in Europe after years and years of oppression by Christianity. This Science reject anything and everything about Spiritualism in Science and many people raised to believe that being Scientific in thinking means you cannot be Spiritual.

 

Scientific thinking as stated in the East however was different - it flows with Spiritualism and Man formulated the Secrets of the World while respect the Gods and their domains.

 

That is why Indians could reject Blind Science and relearn how their forefathers had learnt to think.

 

Lastly, I like to say that while I can formulate an acceptable theory on what happened to the World 650 million years ago which gave rise to Cambrian Explosion BUT no Scientists in the West could possible explain why it occured. Why? They didn't research properly.

[maadhav]

okay,

who made the chemicals,

and who made humans out of chemicals?

 

 

[Samkhya]

««« 2. WHY, even so a person born as twins - genetically similar and grow up in the same environment, get same educations etc can have two different Consciousness? »»»

 

Twins are not PERFECTLY identical. They do not undergo exactly the same influences. Suppose one twin is with the mother and the other one with the father. They do not live exactly the same thing. Suppose the two twins are not in the same classrom. They are taught by two different teachers. So they undergo different influences.

 

Your statement: «grow up in the same environment» is not true in an absolute sense.

 

As to the rest, you are arguing from ignorance.

[Samkhya]

The question: «who made men out of chemicals» is unscientific. It is a hollow question, a question that prevents research. The real question, the question that leads to new discoveries, is: HOW were men made out of chemicals.

[maadhav]

thanks for sharing your view. we do not agree.

 

"who made man out of chemicals" is a very vaild question.

all smart rears need to answer it. who made scientific laws (like e.g. who made gravitational force, or electromagnetic medium, or why pure water is always tasteless, etc.), meaning, who made physical proerties is also a valid question.

 

when something is done, there is a doer.

there is no fault in this logic.

 

jai sri krishna!

 

[Samkhya]

""" when something is done, there is a doer. """

 

And why something happens, must there be a "happener"? It makes no sense. Physical events happen, and there is no need of a creator.

 

Even if we say that something is made, all that it means is that there is or there are some cause. This cause need not be a person or a supernatural being or even a unique thing. It may be a set of natural forces.

[Guest guest]

A small kid standing at the traffic signal sees the automatic functoning od red and green signals and thinks they are functioning on their own.

Only a sane person knows there is a brain behind the designing of the automatic functioning of lights.

 

Your position is as good as that of a kid. Since your senses cannot perceive the Absolute Reality, you are negating its existence.

[Sephiroth]

Twins are not PERFECTLY identical. They do not undergo exactly the same influences. Suppose one twin is with the mother and the other one with the father. They do not live exactly the same thing. Suppose the two twins are not in the same classrom. They are taught by two different teachers. So they undergo different influences.

 

READ properly what I have said, DON'T make your own stupid assumptions of what I probably said.

 

[Qoute]

WHY, even so a person born as twins - genetically similar and grow up in the same environment, get same educations etc can have two different Consciousness?

[/Qoute]

 

Genetically - Twins ARE the same - built from the SAME sperm and Ovum and then split into two organism.

 

I said SAME environment - both parents together (not separate). WHO said they are separated? Don't make your own assumption. And same educations and influences also.

 

YET - no twins are the same or behave the same. Two twins have same Consciousness.

 

As to the rest, you are arguing from ignorance.

You are the ignorant one here, making your own assumptions and false beliefs YET have guts to come and questions others as if you are a great Buddha.

[Samkhya]

I realize that I did not make my point perfectly clear, because English is not my mother language.

 

I will try to explain better:

 

The environment of the two twins is not PERFECTLY identical, even if we say, for practical purposes, that it is the same environment. It is just ROUGHLY true.

 

Suppose that, one day, one of the twins goes for a walk with the father whereas the other one remains at home with the mother. They will not live the same thing.

 

The differentiation begins at birth: suppose one of the twins is taken care of by one nurse whereas the other one is taken care of by another nurse. They won't have exactly the same experiences.

 

But, could you say, the difference between their experiences is very little whereas the differences between the behavior of the two twins is big. I reply that a little difference can result in a big difference in some kinds of systems. I am not sure of how they call it in English. In French they are called «chaotiques».

[Samkhya]

««« You are the ignorant one here, making your own assumptions and false beliefs YET have guts to come and questions others as if you are a great Buddha. »»»

 

You think you are justified just because you have not met someone with the answers. It is merely by chance that you have not been disproved.

[Sephiroth]

by Samkhya

 

Suppose that, one day, one of the twins goes for a walk with the father whereas the other one remains at home with the mother. They will not live the same thing.

 

So what? Didn't the creator of this thread stated that Humans are just chemicals? How does chemicals in the body have any influence on whether a person goes for a walk or not?

 

You saying everytime you go for a walk, your chemical changes? What Science Fiction is that? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

The differentiation begins at birth: suppose one of the twins is taken care of by one nurse whereas the other one is taken care of by another nurse. They won't have exactly the same experiences.

 

Who handles the children makes NO difference to the physical and chemical compounds of the body. All this is nonsense explaination.

 

But, could you say, the difference between their experiences is very little whereas the differences between the behavior of the two twins is big. I reply that a little difference can result in a big difference in some kinds of systems. I am not sure of how they call it in English. In French they are called «chaotiques».

 

Come back when you know what the English term is.

 

You think you are justified just because you have not met someone with the answers. It is merely by chance that you have not been disproved.

 

Wrong ... I have brought this questions to Atheists sites 2 years back and to THIS DAY, not one satisfactory answer was given.

 

EVEN your answer (half-baked) that two twins can "change" just because they go for a walk shows that Humans are NOT mere chemicals only.

[Samkhya]

Yes, chemicals can have influence on whether I go for a walk or not. But it is not the point.

 

When I go for a walk, the chemical processes in my body undergo some changes. For instance, if I get a new memory while walking, the chemistry of my brain will change.

 

""" Who handles the children makes NO difference to the physical and chemical compounds of the body. All this is nonsense explaination. """

 

YES it makes a difference at the level of chemical processes, processes for which new chemicals are not necessarily required. In other words, the chemicals present in the body behave in a new way as a result of external influences.

 

 

Here's a description of chaotic systems:

 

http://membrane.com/chaos/sidd.html

 

My opinion is that man is one of these chaotic systems.

 

[Sephiroth]

When I go for a walk, the chemical processes in my body undergo some changes. For instance, if I get a new memory while walking, the chemistry of my brain will change.

 

YES it makes a difference at the level of chemical processes, processes for which new chemicals are not necessarily required. In other words, the chemicals present in the body behave in a new way as a result of external influences.

 

Fact that you exist shows that your concept of Humans as chemical is wrong. I will explain.

 

Your characteristics, and such SHOULDN'T Exist as well. If the body constantly changes, your characteristics also should change as well. Years and years, new characteristics should appear in place of a new one.

 

We all know that individuals sometimes spend the whole lifetime with emotions like anger, hatred and resentment. WHY? Did the chemicals didn't change in their body?

 

If Humans are indeed nothing more than chemicals, your individuality shouldn't exists since there is no physical place for Mind to exist in a body.

 

And Dead People should be able to be revived and be walking around now - fact that no one could revive a dead person - despite of knowing what chemicals they made off shows that chemicals ain't the only agent in the body.

 

Also, explain to me what is the use of Emotions to individuals who is nothing more than chemicals? Isn't it better if they become like plants - automated to find food sources and move away from harms the same way plants grows toward the sun and move away from the dark to survive?

[Guest guest]

So you think that man who is intelligent enough to design computers, airplanes and big sky scrappers is nothing but a bag of bile, mucus, blood, bones and urine....

 

or is his identity something beyond it...

 

 

[Samkhya]

I don't say that man is just chemicals. All that I say is that you defend the soul with poor arguments.

 

The chemicals of the body constantly change but the STRUCTURE remains there.

 

It's like... if this year you replace the door of your house. The next year you replace the windows. The materials have changed, but the structure has remained the same.

[Sephiroth]

The chemicals of the body constantly change but the STRUCTURE remains there.

 

It's like... if this year you replace the door of your house. The next year you replace the windows. The materials have changed, but the structure has remained the same.

 

Which part of the Structure in a Human body remains the same?

 

If Man is a house, and you change the parts of the house little by little over a period of time, sooner or later, the house you have will be have is DIFFERENT to the house you brought.

 

Let say you have a single storey house. You change the window today, door tomorrow, change the color of the walls the next month, break down a wall and expanded it to make another room a year later and finally, made a garden at the back of the house where there's a little soil.

 

After all this renovations, do you still say that the house you brought is same as the house you have now?

 

Answer - NO. You had changed it.

 

But ONE fact remains - YOU DIDN'T change YOURSELF, just your house to show how you live your life to the World. In another words, your house becomes your Body to show the World your Personality.

 

That is what Human body and the Soul is. The Soul enables Man to make newer changes and such and the Mind is just a product of your body's interaction with your Soul - a byproduct and therefore false.

 

In your house example, the purpose of you renovating your house is to enable you to live and work more comfortably BUT, unknowingly, your house become your symbol of status and pride - temporary byproduct.

 

House can be brought down and destroyed, thus altering the Mind which attached to the Body BUT you remains and as long as you live and work, you can always find another home to settle in and repeat the cycle all over again.

[Samkhya]

In spite of all these renovations, at each step, the house has remained a house and could be recognized as such. It had a door, walls, windows, a top, rooms, etc... It remained ESSENTIALLY the same, though minor details have changed. Likewise, the body remains ESSENTIALLY the same in spite of the change of chemicals, and so because of chemical, biological and organic processes which control how waste products are rejected and how new products are used to preserve the body. The body is like a machine...

 

My point is that what makes a house a house remains unchanged, but little changes can occur to some extent. Especially little changes which do not occur at the same time.

[Sephiroth]

My point is that what makes a house a house remains unchanged, but little changes can occur to some extent. Especially little changes which do not occur at the same time.

 

Wrong ... the term "House" is just a name or a term, it means nothing.

 

There are bungalows, double-storey houses, single story, huts etc. All this is just different terms for houses, nothing more.

 

In that context, humans are just a name. Nothing in a Man makes him human. Even in Genetic terms - Humans share 98% similarities with the Great Apes and Chimpanzees and you go look at their features and ours and you WON'T be able to determine which 2% we have which makes humans unique.

 

Hell ... Ramayana is the first Epic which accepted this fact (NOT Bible or Al Quran) and said that Man and the Apes are brothers.

[Samkhya]

You misunderstand my analogy of the house. Yes, house is just a name, but it is not the point. The name house points to something real and definite. It does not point to anything. But I have shown that the name goes on to apply even when the thing named undergoes changes.

 

I attempted to show that a man can keep its physical identity (its likeness with himself) without necessarily having a soul. To explain the identity of the man by a soul is a lazy and unscientific explanation. Life sciences are bringing the answer without resorting to the soul.