Gotra and Varna

[narayanadasa]

Jai Sriman Narayana:

 

Does Gotra determine one's varna in a varnashrama dharma? If so, then does it mean at brahmins will all belong to a set of Gothra, Kshatriya will belong to another set, similarly Vaishyas and Sudras? Can there be an overlap here?

 

[Guest guest]

 

Yes. I cannot speak for other Varnas, but a Brahmana will have a valid gotra... has to.

 

There is no overlap. In fact, lineage is considered sacrosanct and cannot be compromised under any circumstances. This is how clear divisions were maintained between varnas - especially between Brahmanas & the others.

 

Cheers

 

 

[maadhav]

gotras and shakhas are in brahmans and kshatriyas only because the vedic knowledge was tansferred by memory from the rishis to their sons and disciples of the next generation. so the name of a gora and shakha signifies which part of vedic knowlege was propagated down the generations till now. vaishyas and shudras were not chosen to do this.

 

[narayanadasa]

Jai Sriman Narayana:

 

Thanks for all your replies!

 

So, Gotra cant change in one lifetime, right? If so, Varna doesnt change too or does it change for example if a Kshatriya gets initiated from a Brahmin Aacarya into a particular lineage?

[Guest guest]

 

As far as I have seen, varna cannot be changed during the course of one's lifetime through initiations, etc.

 

I am pretty sure a Kshatriya cannot become a Maadhva Brahmin or a Smaartha Brahmin. Such a conversion process does not exist -- traditionally at least, although I have heard of some recent westerners initiated into 'Brahmanism', whatever that means. I have no idea who initiated them and what the process was. Such a concept is certainly very new and unorthodox.

 

The gotra is equated with the Y-chromosome. The Y-chromosome comes entirely from the father and so in a family line, the Y-chromose of X is completely derived from his paternal ancestors. When a Brahmana says he belongs to the Bharadwaja gotra, it means there exists a single, unbroken paternal line connecting him to Bharadwaja. Thus, it is impossible for someone to obtain a gotra through an initiation process and one cannot be a Brahman if he does not belong to one of the standard Gotras.

 

Cheers

 

[Guest guest]

 

To add, modern day, global, religious groups who although claim to have their origin in obscurity, cannot stick to tradition because most of their monetary support comes from non-Indians who would tradtioanlly be categorized as impure Melchchas. It will not go down well with the 'Mlechcha' benefactors to be told about their impure status vs. traditional Brahmana superority. The consequence is the inflow of dollars & pounds would stop and the religious organizaton would go out of business.

 

To accomodate changing times, systems have to be constantly revised and traditions have to be compromised as necessary -- which makes perfect sense as there is no point is clinging onto rules made by parochial groups for bygone times.

 

Cheers

 

[Guest guest]

was there a person by that name from whom we descend?

[narayanadasa]

Jai Sriman Narayana:

 

On the other hand, suppose a person of Varna Brahmin, behaves out of Rajo guna, he may not become a Kshatriya but just a non-brahmin or may be even an out-caste.

 

Not sure if this is correct. People with knowledge on this please respond.

[narayanadasa]

Jai Sriman Narayana:

 

After initiation into a particular lineage does the person start quoting his new Gotra for example marriage and other rituals?