FATE AND KARMA

[barney 0]

There is a misconception of the above among the Hindus. What I believe is, Karma {action} and Vithi {fate} are associate beause Vithis is the menefistation of Karma.

Karma is action and Vithi is the happening. If good action the Vithi would spring good results and if bad action the consequence would be bad. So when someone says

it is his Vithi to suffer than his Karma was bad in the past. Most people confuse themsleves with

Vithi and Karma by saying the two have different meaning.

 

Any comments?

[narayanadasa 0]

Jai Sriman Narayan:

 

In my opinion Fate is generally mentioned by those who dont believe in Rebirth (or may be those who are not even aware). As I posted in another thread, they sometimes find strange things in the world that they cannot answer easily (by mental speculation) like for eg: if they find one baby born handicapped and another born well, they generally call it fate. Then they may tend to say that "God is partial that he made the babies different" which tends to conflict with their own religious beliefs that God is impartial. But, if we believe in Rebirth, then we do have another answer to this question i.e. Karma. So, God made the 2 babies different not because he was partial but because the souls in the 2 babies had different Karma attached and they have to experience different things on earth to get rid of their respective Karma.

 

Now, can experiencing Karma be called fate? because "experiencing Karma" is mandatory, right?

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

[Sephiroth 0]

I think Karma is the only thing which can explain Fate. Fate alone cannot be sufficient enough to explain what is happening. But many people do not believe in Karma or possibility of Reincarnation (to face our own Fate).

 

If a child is new (never been born before), then why does it need to suffer with handicaps, hole in the heart and sickness? God should have made ALL babies equal if the babies are sinless.

 

Christians and Muslims do not accept Reincarnation but choose to say God is impartial in creation of the children.

 

Again, if Christians choose Original Sin, then the handicap and sickness should go away as soon as the child accept Jesus and be baptized. Once again - it doesn't. It stays whether the child is Christian or not.

 

Muslims could say that it is test of faith by God for parents to have such children. Two falseness here : -

 

1) Why put an innocent child as a test subject when you can do it with the parents?

 

2) if the parent divorced and moved away, or died, the child still will suffer for the rest of the time.

 

ONLY possible explaination - the child itself had sinned in its pervious existence and now suffering for it.

[barney 0]

<Now, can experiencing Karma be called fate?>

 

Yes, you do not experience Karma but fate. KARMA is action caused by every individual be it past or present and FATE is the experience. The result of your action [KARMA] is the experience [FATE] you fo through life. So, my point is there is no FATE without KARMA. You would only come to a conculusion after the experience.

[narayanadasa 0]

Jai Sriman Narayan:

 

Just thinking more on the topic...

 

Fate is something predestined or something that is not under your control whatsoever. Although certain things are not under our control in this life, we definitely can make our future (next life) better by living good today. We just need to accumulate good Karma.

 

Thinking back on the same lines to the extent we went back our lives to our very first birth can we say it was our fate that we are still here today? No, fate, because nobody pre-destined anything for us to be here.... it was our own decision to get in touch with material nature and in the process accumulate karma and continue to be here.. God gave us what WE desired.

 

When we say "Fate" we tend to leave the responsibility for that with God. This is wrong because we are responsible for what we do, not God. We need the support of God to do Karma too (both Good and Bad as we desire) and God will provide support for both.. we have the choice. Again, it is our responsibility to choose, not our fate.

 

So, if I understand your answer correctly, are you telling that "Fate is the sum-total of Karma"? If so, is it fate that determined what I was in my previous lives? and is it fate that determines what I will be in my next life? Thinking again, fate as a literal dictionary meaning doesnt equate to Karma.

 

I may be wrong or going too far with the discussion. Please feel free to stop me if necessary.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

"Fate is something predestined or something that is not under your control whatsoever. Although certain things are not under our control in this life, we definitely can make our future (next life) better by living good today. We just need to accumulate good Karma."

 

Even in this life, if we surrender to God (i.e. serve Him), then God can change our karma - the key is to give up control to the Supreme Controller.

 

"So, if I understand your answer correctly, are you telling that "Fate is the sum-total of Karma"? If so, is it fate that determined what I was in my previous lives? and is it fate that determines what I will be in my next life? Thinking again, fate as a literal dictionary meaning doesnt equate to Karma."

 

Fate means that once you do an act, the reaction is inevitable - that is fate. However, as already explained, God can even change that fate. Another thing is fate is limited to the reaction. Our reaction to the 'bad' or 'good' thing that happens to us is not determined by fate. To the extent that we are attached to our senses, to that extent fate exists.

 

Hare Krishna

[barney 0]

narayanadasa said:

 

Fate is something predestined or something that is not under your control whatsoever. Although certain things are not under our control in this life, we definitely can make our future (next life) better by living good today. We just need to accumulate good Karma.

 

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You are here and it is you fate to be here. Like it or not this is your life. You would not know what you were before so it is now that you realize there was another life before this but otherwise how would you know you exist.

 

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narayanadasa said:

 

Thinking back on the same lines to the extent we went back our lives to our very first birth can we say it was our fate that we are still here today? No, fate, because nobody pre-destined anything for us to be here.... it was our own decision to get in touch with material nature and in the process accumulate karma and continue to be here.. God gave us what WE desired.

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No, the predestine is determind by the Lord before we were cast out inot this world. Before that we were all in the spritual world. You must remember out atman is imortal, there is no birth no end. So the birth of our life here was first determind bu the Lord due to our misbehaviour or desire to experience a mortal life. From than on we experinece birth and death until we exhaust our karma.

 

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narayanadasa said:

 

When we say "Fate" we tend to leave the responsibility for that with God. This is wrong because we are responsible for what we do, not God. We need the support of God to do Karma too (both Good and Bad as we desire) and God will provide support for both.. we have the choice. Again, it is our responsibility to choose, not our fate.

 

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No, that is wrong. God does not predestine our life. It is we who through our action and thought which determine our next birth. Ftae is something that you only realize when it has happened otherwise we would not know. Something like I wish to see my children grow up and get married so that I can see my grandchildren. But that desire is shortlived so what happens than, my kis folks wout say he is not fated to live to see his grandchildren. Now how does fate play here. If I had lived to see my grand children than is was predestined by my past karma that I would otherwise fate had desided to end my desire. This is something one need to ponder. Ofcourse there are many interpretation about fate and karma but we have to think of logic. Fate is only mentioned when something unwanted had happened otherwise fate would be forgotten. But most do not realize fate is happening every second of our live without us realizing. Meeting someone for the first time is fate and that is happening and it is due to our karma of the past. Otherwise you would not meet that new face. He was interlinked in your past life and was predsetined to meet you again in this present life at a certain period.

 

All life in this planest has a link to our past but we do not realize it. Your mother of father in yur past life could be one of your sons or daughters. Or if you had been a swan in your past life and since you have exhausted your karma there and in this life you take a human birth does not mean the link is over. Some or rather you would take a liking to the swans in this life and that is the intution of your past link. This is a very broad subject to dwell with but an intersting one. As for GOD he only observes all this and would wait for your return only. We would not know after how many births and deaths. That is why the rishis have show a certain way to return to him earlier than as destined, which is self realization. Those self realized souls have take abode with the Lord earlier than some who wish to dwell on God in search of him and trying to please him in different ways. Now that would take up most of your time and in the process you incure more bad karmas. Such as tell a person he way is wrong and this is how one should go by and if he refuses you way you cures him or make fun of his ways to irritate him and so on. This are all bad karmas. If you had chosen a path live by it in silent and cary on your belief in order not to hurt others. That would be your ticket to reach him otherwise it is back here again as predestined till your karm is exhausted. That is why I said KARMA & FATE works togeter in hand in hand in each and everyones life whithout you realizing it. Only when the action has taken its course that we say it is fate that it had to be this and that.

 

OM NAMA SHIVAYA

 

[Guest guest]

Fate is a mere perception. The proof that it's a perception is that the feeling of good and bad keeps changing in us.

 

What we consider as bad fate sometimes on us turns good as an after thought. For example: Hard work and no recognition for a while only makes us better to face realities in future life.

 

And sometimes what we would consider as good fate initially, turns as bad fate in the after thought.

 

So good and bad fate is a mere perception. Therefore "fate interpretation = ignorance". "Bad Karma also = ignorance"

 

ignorance (perceptions of Vithi) = ignorance (bad karma)

 

It really doesn't matter which one is in the left hand side. Focus of perceptions what-so-ever including fate, only leads to bad karma. In good karma, one ignores perceptions alltogether regardless of fate being god or bad.

 

Good karma = infinite knowledge