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how is permanence non-existant? by being permanent, there is an aspect of the permanance of anything that is existing, even if its only the permanance itself.

 

and by the fact that we exist, non-existance can not be permament

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none of our words refer

to anything that still exists.

 

Your reply comes from you intellect(thought)

 

at THIS typing what i am typing

about does not exist.

 

THIS *fact is seen *moment to *moment.

The intellect will block the *seeing.

 

What else will You notice...the self is destroyed

as fast as it is created. In other words, the

self does not exists. This also takes out

your misery.

 

My words here must all be lies.

Thats why JC said we are satan(the liar).

satan is not evil. Evil does not exist.

That is why UGK says He doesnt know what He is saying.

That is why JC said "if you say you know, you dont know."

 

The creation does not stop.

The flow of energy does not stop.

How can there be permanence?

It is so simple. Just watch. Dont faint.

.

.

.

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Existance is defined in terms of the birth and death of certain material things, and also with respect to things which are perccivable to your mind. But higher than the mind and intelligence is the soul, which is not even percieved by intelligence , and this soul is non existant- meaning beyond birth and death , in otherwords independent of time, unchanging and always the same.

 

To percive this, that you are an unchanging, immutable and eternal (without birth and death) a very big Sadhana (research and hard work) is required. And also required is a grace from the spiritual master. The soul cant be percieved by reading books and doing anything independently without the help of an authorised spiritual master.

 

Read Bhagavadgita once and you will get more info about the non existant (without birth and death)directly thru the Supreme Lord

 

As Lord says, " for the eternal there is no endurance "

 

Hari hari bol

 

 

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K

 

why do you cling to idea of the unchanging??

 

unchanging is impossible in THIS flow of energy

 

As Lord says, " for the eternal there is no endurance "

...no permanence!!!!!!

 

You want unchanging and no endurance simultaneous...that is false...you are still clinging to the self(it remains).

 

The Lord used high sounding words and confused you.

 

why do you cling to a master??..do you want to sell something??

Why do you say hard work when there is nothing to do??

You cant fool me.

 

The owl story is beautiful. :-) i can *see* IT.

UGK has nothing to say.

~~~

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It wasn't easy to decipher your message...are you trying to say there's no such thing as permanence? If so, what's the nature of the entity that's making that assertion? How does that entity recognize impermanence without having a (permanent) standard to compare it with?

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"trying to say there's no such thing as permanence?"

 

not trying...i said it!!

 

"entity that's making that assertion"

does not exist. The self does not exist.

It is destroyed as fast as it is created

in the creation field(no permanence)

 

"compare it with?"

You know better than that. That is the measurement

*problem* that you have already flushed down

the toilet.

 

Are you trying to trick me?

.

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you must respond rationally. You say the entity that's making the assertion doesn't exist. Then who's making the assertion? Who's typing the message? Besides, your conclusion is based on measurement, so there is no trick involved. It is the normal process.

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An object is never known directly, but always through mind.

 

so then there is no where to go,

there is nothing to do,nothing to find,

to reach the state we are already in

 

form is the emptiness

emptiness is form

there are no names required

 

there is nothing to understand

 

just live

 

...is this a good reply sir ? : )

 

 

 

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Well how are we supposed to make holy texts then?

 

We need to write a library of words, call them sacred, condition the children with them, then they'll know all about enlightenment.

 

Well, that seems to be the logic.

 

Just one problem, the 'enlightenment' of the books is not even there, and what really is there will have nothing to do with that stuff.

 

Oh well, the show must go on, or else there will be no words left to revere.

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Let me clarify certain things here on the basis of their meanings

 

1. Endurance - Is defined as the ability /susceptibilty of an existant fallible being to certain material task. And " for the non existance no endurance means, the concept of endurance is ruled out for the soul which is independent of time. Sceintifically , endurance of a metal eg. decreases as it undergoes cycle of loads with respect to TIME and this TIME is unpresent in the case of soul and thus there is no endurance for the soul.

Moreover when the endurance is not present or infinite (one and the same) the entity becomes permanant - as simple as that isnt it?

 

Listen dude Lord is not out ther to confuse , inact he is least botherered about that. You can understand the Lord and his activities only by his grace . Utter submission is required, else all look just a bunch of confusing things!!!

 

[why do you cling to a master??..do you want to sell something??

Why do you say hard work when there is nothing to do??

you cant fool me.]

 

For any realisation be it be material or spritual, first comes the theory i.e thru books and scriptures and then comes a deep research by the Guidance of Spiritual master to realise the truth as it is, this is a simple truth , there is no fooling ,otherwise one wud simply be lost.

 

I am not compaigning here for anybody nor do I wish to become ur spiritual master, I just say whats been heard and read from my spiritual masters.

 

Ya I know the old Owl story is beutiful and thats the reason its there for you to SEE it.

 

hari hari bol

 

 

 

 

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So many people throw the word soul about so easily and often that you almost get the impression that they actually know what they're talking about.

 

Never forget this tip:

 

They don’t know at all.

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Lemme first offer my sincere respects to my Spiritual master because of whose grace I could understand what the soul and the super souls are !!!

 

Let me start directly from the verse of Gita which gives a clear explanation of the same

 

Whats Soul?

 

Lord says,

 

indriyani parany ahur

indriyebhyah param manah

manasas tu para buddhir

yo buddheh paratas tu sah

 

The working senses are superior to dull matter; mind is higher than the senses; intelligence is still higher than the mind; and he [the soul] is even higher than the intelligence.

 

Characteristics of soul

 

The supreme lord says

 

nainam chindanti sastrani

nainam dahati pavakah

na cainam kledayanty apo

na sosayati marutah

 

traln:

 

The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind.

 

acchedyo 'yam adahyo 'yam

akledyo 'sosya eva ca

nityah sarva-gatah sthanur

acalo 'yam sanatanah

 

This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, all-pervading, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same.

 

jatasya hi dhruvo mrtyur

dhruvam janma mrtasya ca

tasmad apariharye 'rthe

na tvam socitum arhasi

 

For one who has taken his birth, death if certain; and for one who is dead, birth is certain. Therefore, in the unavoidable discharge of your duty, you should not lament.

 

ascarya-vat pasyati kascid enam

ascarya-vad vadati tathaiva canyah

ascarya-vac cainam anyah srnoti

srutvapy enam veda na caiva kascit

 

Some look at the soul as amazing, some describe him as amazing, and some hear of him as amazing, while others, even after hearing about him, cannot understand him at all.

 

dehi nityam avadhyo 'yam

dehe sarvasya bharata

tasmat sarvani bhutani

na tvam socitum arhasi

 

O descendant of Bharata, he who dwells in the body is eternal and can never be slain. Therefore you need not grieve for any creature.

 

The above one is very important one as it says clearly that you are actually not this body but a powerful entity called soul. As you have engrossed into this body and because of external illusions you have started thinking that you are a body . But by controlling one'S senses and following on the footsteps of Vaishnawa spiritual masters one can by the mercy of spiritual masters and Govinda know that one is nothing but a powerful entity soul and is a part and the parcel of the supreme lord Govinda.

 

Hope that help....for more info on the actual identity of onself i.e soul visit http://www.krishna.com/e-books/Bhagavad-gita_As_It_Is.pdf

 

Hope that brings you peace .........

 

Hari hari bol

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