Twice Born?

[Sephiroth 0]

"Let the twice-born enter the fearless kingdom of yoga, Vedic study, and solitary meditation in the forest. Let them become liberated in that way. As for us, we will spend hundreds of thousands of births chanting the holy name of Lord Krsna, whose splendid dark complexion and yellow garments are like a host of blue lotus flowers blooming in a grove of yellow-flower-bearing kadamba trees." [Padyavali - Introduction, Verse 18]

 

I was reading the Diary of Travelling Preacher from another thread when this word caught my sight.

 

What does it mean by "Twice Born"? How does one born twice if he never depart the body and return to it?

 

Does it has a spiritual meaning to it alone without any logical one?

 

Thank you beforehand.

[vishiva 0]

Twice Born -

 

life without the self knowledge. life after the self knowledge.

 

twice born.

[Sephiroth 0]

Twice Born -

 

life without the self knowledge. life after the self knowledge.

 

Something like Gautama Buddha's Enlightnment perhaps?

 

[vishiva 0]

I can't say that as i have never seen Bhuddha's first life and second life. neither know what he realised.he alone knows that

 

as we can't learn from just reading from ones life. its very difficult to intreprete ones life .its just a assumption and inference. which always ends in discussion . that this is good and this one is not.

 

but yes i know what he meant he meant for himself for not others, others just followed what they liked to be truth that is the base of any philosophy.if you have to get realised you have your own capability.need not go outward for search. as its in yourself and within yourself.

 

but for twice born.once born with out knowledge of self and when you are realised you again born in same body and live with different perception.

[Guest guest]

"What does it mean by "Twice Born"?"

 

it means initiated to spiritual practice and knowledge by a pure spiritual master

 

for the gita, for example, it is the only way to get moksa and devotion

 

gita says that guru has to be "tattva darshinah", one who sees and relationate in full consciousness with the absolute truth, god, krsna bhagavan

 

in sanskrit the word is dvija-bandu... in the average late hindu tradition it is a caste affair... for brahmins...

 

but dharmic science says that a brahmin is one who is connected with brahman, not one who is born in a priest's family..

 

so everyone can get initiation, and teachings from a pure master..

everyone can taje a new birth in spiritual consciousness..

everyone can be a brahmin, dvija bandu, twice born..

 

then he becomes a master for other aspiring "twice born"

 

(all is cleary demonstrated by indradyumna maharaja's "Diary" who speaks of people all over the word made twice born, brahmins, by chanting hare krsna, surrendering to spiritual master and reading gita, bhagavatam, chaitanya charitamrita and so on..)

[krishnadasa 0]

When one takes birth for the first time, one will do so from one's mother's womb. And one will be named for the first time

And the second time one will be initiated by a spiritual master and will be given a second time a name. And after this the person is suppossed to leave house to get lessons about Brahman from the Guru!!

 

Hope that made it more clear

 

hari hari bol

[Sephiroth 0]

by vishiva

 

but for twice born.once born with out knowledge of self and when you are realised you again born in same body and live with different perception.

 

From the three posts I received, I think this is the only thing makes sense. I don't think "Twice Born" refers to been initiated by any Gurus or Spiritual Masters.

 

I think (after thinking overnight) that "Born Twice" refers to killing of the Mind and reborn with sense of Self (your Soul) - like what above statement mentioned.

 

Everyone who is born to this world do so with attachment to this world. They live life according to the concept of right and wrong which they alone perceive and accept.

 

That is why there is people who, when confronted something he do not like, will either force himself to accept (Muslims are good at it), continue doing it by making different assumption and interpretations (Christians are good at this) or let go and wonder about it continously (some Buddhist and Hindus does this).

 

They do not reliaze that the cause of all this attachment is the Mind. For Man to be free, he must kill off his mind. When his mind is dead, he will ease to be attached to the world - thus, his first death.

 

But does it mean that mind is the soul? No.

Is dead of the Mind equals true death? No.

 

Therefore, he will be awaken with sense of True Self - realisation of his Soul and its relationship with God. Thus, he is born the second time - in the same body but like what Vishiva pointed out, with different perceptive.

[maadhav 0]

 

at birth a human is just an animal without a tail, per vedic literature. one has to undergo some samskaras, and yagnopavit ceremony, to become a human. that is then is considred born agan (as a human being) qualified to learn the message of the vedas and scriptures and then live by it.

 

dwija is also a category of brahmanas.

 

in contrast - islam is imposed on every child born in a muslim family, and there is no way out.

 

[Sephiroth 0]

at birth a human is just an animal without a tail, per vedic literature. one has to undergo some samskaras, and yagnopavit ceremony, to become a human. that is then is considred born agan (as a human being) qualified to learn the message of the vedas and scriptures and then live by it.

 

Sorry, I don't accept such concept. Why? Because to say such and agreed, it is to say that humans have no souls and enlightnment (since I'm from Jewish background, I say Rebirth) happens just by physical changes alone.

 

Physical changes is sufficient ONLY if you are soulless. If you have a soul, then your soul will interact with the envrionment around it through the body, and this will cause pain/pleasure, love/hate, love/lust and such duality to exists.

 

And to cope with this situations, a Mind is created, same way an abused child will create an alternative personality which willing to take its abuse while another personality exists to live. Whenever the environment become too abusive, the alternative reality sets in and the individual survives.

 

Scientifically, this is called "Selfish Gene", a theory which states that the genes in the body do the best they could to protect their own (body's) survival in any possible way. As long as the body exist, the genes exists and lives. In such state, we could all considered to be Souls, trapped by Nature in a body, too fragile to exists in nature without sense of duality.

 

So, in order for One to be Reborn, Something MUST die. That something is the Mind - sense of duality as stated in the Gita. Thus, once you have died in sense of the Mind (duality), you are then reborn as a new person with perception of the world, seen through the eyes of the Soul, and thus, will lead to God once again.

 

dwija is also a category of brahmanas.

 

Yet Brahmins means one who have characteristics of a Brahmin - to learn and teach others of God and Religion, not to act Holy just because he is born as such.

 

in contrast - islam is imposed on every child born in a muslim family, and there is no way out.

 

Wrong ... that is idiotic excuses. A duality in actions. You do not like Islam, just leave. If you do not like Islam yet force yourself to remain because you are not brave enough to leave, then it is not God's or your societies' fault, it is yours alone.

 

Anyone can read the Gita and claim he did so, but no one can force him to follow what is written in the Gita. Same goes for Islam, Laws of Moses, Christianity or Buddhism.

[Guest guest]

"Sorry, I don't accept such concept. Why? Because to say such and agreed, it is to say that humans have no souls and enlightnment (since I'm from Jewish background, I say Rebirth) happens just by physical changes alone. "

 

it is not a phisical change... it is samskara. To work it has to be together with the qualification of the master (he has to fully god's conscious or it is a fake ritual), the sincerity of the disciple, and initiation's moment has to be a start for a life devoted to enlightement and devotion.... otherwise there's no second birth or spiritual birth.

Bhagavad Gita speaks of guru and initiation but not as a mere ritualistic act.. there's to be interest in spiritual consciousness, complete purity in the guru and perfect following..

 

Chapter 4. Transcendental Knowledge

 

TEXT 34

 

tad viddhi pranipatena

pariprasnena sevaya

upadeksyanti te jnanam

jnaninas tattva-darsinah

 

SYNONYMS

tat--that knowledge of different sacrifices; viddhi--try to understand; pranipatena--by approaching a spiritual master; pariprasnena--by submissive inquiries; sevaya--by the rendering of service; upadeksyanti--initiate; te--unto you; jnanam--knowledge; jnaninah--the self-realized; tattva--truth; darsinah--the seers.

 

TRANSLATION

Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.

 

--

 

that's initiation.. spiritual birth... then everyone has his own rituals .

 

And Bhagavad Gita never says that it can happen only in hinduism.........

 

[maadhav 0]

<< Because to say such and agreed, it is to say that humans have no souls >>

 

every living being has a soul per vedic literature/sanatana dharma/hinduism.

 

krishna describes in gita what is a soul.

non hindus do not know it well.

 

[maadhav 0]

<< If you do not like Islam yet force yourself to remain because you are not brave enough to leave, then it is not God's or your societies' fault, it is yours alone. >>

 

koran says that if one quits islam, he/she must be killed.

this is intructon of allah.

gita/krishna does not say it.

 

after knowing what islam has done for the hindus and hindustan for 1000 years, only fool or ignorant hindu would say he likes islam over hinduism.

 

do you like islam more than hinduism?

 

[Sephiroth 0]

koran says that if one quits islam, he/she must be killed. this is intructon of allah.

gita/krishna does not say it.

 

Don't be an idiot. Only idiots makes excuses like Allah said this and that, so I'm doing this and that and continue to do stupid things. Such person is an atheist - one who live in delusion and continues to make excuses. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

after knowing what islam has done for the hindus and hindustan for 1000 years, only fool or ignorant hindu would say he likes islam over hinduism.

 

do you like islam more than hinduism?

 

I already beat you to it. Hindusm only suffered by hands of Muslims the last 1,000 years, but Jews had suffered at this idiots' hands for nearly 2,000 years.

 

1st by Christians who continued to damn Jews for not believing in Jesus and even worked with Greeks to wipe Jews of the Planet.

 

When Islam came around, Jews thought Muhammad could be kind and treat them equally, but he was worse than Christians. While Christians attack spiritually, Muslims attacked physically and without mercy. They attacked Jewish traditions, beliefs, land, made slaves of the people of the Book (which they stole the beliefs from) and dispers Jews all over the world.

 

So trust me ... Jews have MORE rights to hate Muslims. Understood?