My Theory - Quantum Consciousness Associate with Kurma Purana

[Sephiroth 0]

Pre-Cambrian Explosion Era

 

According to history, the early microboes which lived in the sea before Cambrian Explosion Era (some 500 Million years ago), were facing massive extinction due to some factors like increase of Oxygen, increase in temperature etc. There was a large gap in the sea due to extinction in massive levels.

 

This occurance similar to the facts that Dewas was in brink of losing before Lord Vishnu decided to do something about it. And, unlike Abrahamic Religion which speaks nothing of Heaven's actions, many Non-Abrahamic Religions (such as Hindusm and Taoism) contribute trumoil in heaven (and in some instance, hell itself) to conditions which occurred on the Planet itself.

 

So, by stating the Dewas were in brink of destruction (due to Shanjeevi Mantra) and that the Asuras will take over the three worlds - Heaven, Hell (the Pit) and Earth due to their actions, it doesn't fall far from the fact that before Cambrian Explosion, the world were about to become barren of life due to massive extinction of early lifeforms (due to changes in the atmosphere and conditions on the world itself).

 

Cambrian Explosion

 

Cambrian Explosion is one of the most important events in History of the Planet. It was the reasons why creatures we see today could exist, including Mankind.

 

Evolutionist (those who support Evolution) however have problem with trying to measure why Cambrian Explosion occured (ONCE) in the first place. If the event such as it occurred several times, then Scientists could study the environment and conditions which enable the Explosion to occur. Unfortunately, no other "Explosion" occurred after that one and Scientists have hard time trying to cook a right formula to mimic the Explosion the second time.

 

From what they know, it seems that the Earth went into what known as a True Polar Wander. In this occurrance, "something" made the world turn 45 degrees (slowly) to the point that north pole was in where today's Bahamas, Africa and Malaysia is located (and the nearest point toward the sun).

 

Also, something promoted growth of algae devouring microoganisms which started to pray upon Blue-Green Algae (which was dying due to Oxygen polution which created by its own self, much like Humans nowadays are "dying" due to Carbon Dioxide pollutions created by their own lungs.

 

In due course of time (a SHORT 40 million years), organisms with what known as Mitochondria had born and evolved, new beings with tougher shells (which needed in order to develop muscles later) appeared. New biological functions also occurred such as teeth, shells, ability to move and such.

 

Scientists have been looking for that "Something" which made all this possible, without any luck.

 

Linking Kurma Avatar to Cambrian Explosion

 

Scientific background - sea almost empty due to mass extinction before pre-Cambrian Explosion.

 

Hindusm background - Heaven in turmoil and the Dewas almost lost.

 

By Science and Western point of View, both situations have nothing to do with each other. In religion point of view, however, it could said that it was the war between Dewas and Asuras which led to the world almost deterioting.

 

 

Dewas need something to fight back and Lord Vishnu suggested of churning the Ocean to get Amiratham. You know how it goes, so no need to repeat it twice. Kurma Avatar is formed, used as a place to place the mountain and using Vasuki, Lord of the Snakes as rope, both Dewas and Asuras begin to churn the ocean.

 

Out of the Ocean came other organisma like a white horse, Lord of the Mane and a White Elephant. Note that both are creatures with backbones. Also, Lord Vishnu's disc weapon (rounded object with saw-like edge which cutting ability).

 

And finally Amiratham - elixir of Immortality.

 

Now, Scientific Point of View - one could wonder where does all this leads? Elixir of Immortality? Any scientist will push it aside as a fantasy.

 

But here's some fact :

 

During and after Cambrian Explosion, creatures which appeared has upgraded functions such as hardened shells (for better protection), stronger backbones (to support the hardened shells), capability of gnawing into other lifeforms (especially Green-Blue Algae which was destroying itself by emiting Oxygen) and such.

 

This could explain the existence of the Lord of the Mane and the White elephant (both are creatures with soft features but supported by backbones which support their massive features and gives them ability to move faster and develop muscles).

 

Also, creation of round shelled crab-like organisma (shell-fish) like Triobite appeared during Cambrian Explosion. This new creatures had one features which no other creature before had - saw-like teeth (which could explain Lord Vishnu's Disc-like weapon with saw-like edge) which enable them to consume other lifeforms, including Blue-Green Algae.

 

Finally, we come to the major question - What is Amiratham?

 

Logically speaking, I believe Amiratham is actually a form of chemical compound which is similar, or maybe is same as Mitochondria which exists in all lifeform today.

 

Mitochondria according to Scientists are a separate organisma (probably like Blue-Green Algae which went into an endosymbiotic with early organisma which later become descendant of every lifeforms on this Planet. Due to the long period of time (nearly 500 Million years since the Symbosis relationship occurred), the traces of the original organisma which later become Mitochondria in today's lifeforms had been lost, leaving only fragment of DNA which is separate from the Nucleous.

 

What IF the Churning process was actually process of refining this micro-organisma into another component which later known as Amiratham - Elixir of Immortality?

 

OK ... I can guess a lot of people will be laughing at this right about now, saying I have a wild imagination without any proof. Here's some arguements which I hope to provide as proof :

 

 

1. Mitochondria is energy powerhouse in all lifeforms including plants. It didn't come to play (actively) till Cambrian Explosion. After that, almost all new lifeform which emerged had traced of Mitochondria in it.

 

IF I believe that Cambrian Explosion IS what known to Hindus as Churning of the Sea by Lord Vishnu, then Mitochondria could be one of the (OR the final product) which enabled Evolution to take place. Therefore, Mitochondria, or maybe the original version of this power-house is what the Dewas were after in form of Amiratham.

 

2. Evolution itself cannot possibly start without organisma evolving new functions and features, and it is already stated that Pre-Cambrian Sea were empty due to mass extinction. Therefore, "something" new must added into the Evolution in order to give Life an extra boost it requires to evolve new features, and that something was Mitochondria.

 

3. Also, today's scientists have been doing extensive research on Mitochondria and associate it with many things like diseases which with insufficient Energy development in the body.

[Sephiroth 0]

Further Self-Studies :

 

http://www.quantumconsciousness. ... eroff/cambrian.html

- Quantum Consciousness.

 

[Qoute]

 

For it's first 3.5 billion years or so ("pre-Cambrian period") life seems to have evolved slowly, producing only single cells and a few simple multicellular organisms. The most significant life forms for the first 2 billion years of this period were algae and bacteria-like prokaryotes. Then, about 1.5 billion years ago, eukaryotic cells appeared apparently as symbiotic mergers of previously independent organelles (mitochondria, plastids) with prokaryotic cells. According to biologist Lynn Margulis (Margulis, 1975; Margulis and Sagan, 1995) microtubules and the dynamically functional cytoskeleton were also outside additions, originating as independent motile spirochetes which invaded prokaryotes and formed a mutually favorable symbiosis. Prokaryotic cells provided a stable, nourishing environment and biochemical energy to the spirochetes who reciprocated by cytoskeletal-based locomotion, sensation, mitosis and differentiation. Pre-Cambrian eukaryotic cells continued to slowly evolve for another billion or so years, resulting only in simple multicellular organisms. Then, in a rather brief 10 million years beginning about 540 million years ago (the beginning of the "Cambrian period"), there apparently occurred a world-wide dramatic acceleration in the rate of evolution: the "Cambrian explosion." A vast array of diversified life abruptly emerged: all the phyla from which today's animals are descended (e.g. Gould, 1989).

 

Can a particular biological functionality be identified that critically enhanced adaptation, survivability and mutation? Did purposeful, intelligent behavior accelerate evolution? The idea that behavior can directly alter genetic code formed the basis of an eighteenth century evolutionary theory by Jean-Baptiste Lamarck. No supportive evidence was found to show that behavior directly modified genetics, and "Lamarckism" was appropriately discredited.

 

The question of whether behavior can alter the course of evolution indirectly was discussed by Schrödinger (1958) who offered several examples (Scott, 1996). A species facing predators and harsh environment might best survive by producing a large number of offspring for cooperative support. Such a rapidly reproducing species is ripe for accelerated evolutionary development (Margulis and Sagan 1995). Another example is a species which finds a new habitat (moving onto land, climbing trees. . .) to which adaptation is facilitated by supporting mutations. Changes in behavior can also favor chance mutations which reinforce original changes, resulting in closed causal loops or positive feedback in evolutionary development (Scott, 1996). Generally, intelligent behavior can enhance a species' survivability and the opportunity for mutation by avoiding extinction.

 

 

 

Other Reading materials :

 

http://pr.caltech.edu/media/lead/072497JLK.html

http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~bioslab ... dria/mitorigin.html

http://hoopermuseum.earthsci.carleton.ca/camex/1ahome.html

http://www.cascadia.ctc.edu/facu ... brian_Explosion.htm

http://serc.carleton.edu/introgeo/earthhistory/cryptozo.html

[Sephiroth 0]

Basically, it is asking what is the Mind? How is it born? When is it born?

 

In Hindusm (and Buddhism), the Mind born from the Five Sensors, and several other organs (I believe it stated so in the Gita). Since the body developed the Mind, therefore, the Mind actually False.

 

In Scientific point of View, Consciousness refers to when organisma begin to take the "first steps" on their own to challenge and evolve, especially in challenging state of the World. I believe that happened during Cambrian Explosion. Evidence is presented by existence of lifeforms which developed new functions and features.

 

If that is true, the period in time, two "consciousness" existed - a Predator Consciousness and Prey Consciousness. Predator feed on the other to survive and the Prey feed on the world. Predator chase and Prey run.

 

The running took the prey out of the water, evolved lungs, sweat glands and other organs and a new dietery systems. The predator come right behind it with similar features as well.

 

Reading materials :

 

http://www.thymos.com/science/qc.html

http://home.earthlink.net/~dolascetta/MetaFrameSet.html

http://www.qedcorp.com/pcr/pcr/pq/pq1.htm

 

 

Note : Some may ask ... what so important about all this? Simple answer is - some people (who do not believe in God especially) asked one simple question - "If there is an Intelligent Design (meaning an intelligent being - God, design the World as we know it) for the world today, When did it start and Where?"

 

This thread about Quantum Consciousness is to answer that question, that the Design in the World as we know today begins at Cambrian Explosion (as most Scientists will agree) and it is explained accordingly in Kurma Purana.

[Guest guest]

im not going to attack your thread because to be honest, i dont fully understand it. there are many elements that go right over my head. it would be very mjuch appreciated if you can go step by step through the kurma avtar story and relate each sequence to your theory.

 

firstly, my question would be...how could any human being without extensive prior knowledge of specific evolutionary sequences and/or a specific knowledge of cellular biology come up with a story that explains this "pre-cambrian explosion".

 

secondly, i dont understand why or how any human could know of a possible mass extinction that took place some couple billion years ago. please do not say that they were advanced sages without actually explaining how it is that they still could have known this. advanced sages do have what would seem as "powers" to those that dont have it, but basically all it is a clear understanding of life and existance. this does not mean that they are all-knowing and could have known what happened billions of years before the first human beings. they might have logically mapped out a posible explanation of some factor of life, but they are not perfectly intelligent.

 

third, (perhaps soe would say im a little biased, but persoanlly i dont think so as i am thinking is through rationally) i like my explanation of kurma avatar better, as it seems more plausible.

 

Im not saying urs cant happen, im just saying, i think mine makes more sense in the realm of human understanding.

 

But , lets leave it up to others to decide which they believe is more likely....my theory or urs.

 

May Lord Shiva give you the clarity of thinking that you associate the sages who wrote the bhagavatam with (btw, the kurma avatar story i believe is not in the kurma purana, but the bhagavata purana).

[Guest guest]

yeah..already asked myself...when will R. come to this thread ? Anyway, I'll put my money on yours.

[Sephiroth 0]

1. Every heard of something called Fossil Records?

 

I based my facts that the Life in the Ancient Oceans prior to Cambrian Explosions were empty due to the fact of Scientists and Experts finding evidence (in form of rock sampling which shows Fossils etc) that mass existence had occured.

 

In Kurma Avatar Purana, it is stated that Dewas were almost lost the war due to Guru Sukrachayra's use of Shanjeevi mantra to revive the Asura warriors, giving advantage over the Dewas.

 

Also, in many Asian cultures such as Hindusm and Buddhism, it stated that, if good or evil took over the Heavens, the effect could be seen on the World itself. Annihilation of Life (which probably too fragile to withstand the changes in the Weather and such, due to war) is directly due to the War in between Asuras and Dewas.

 

2. I'm NOT a Sage. I took facts from Science and link it with Theology and come out with most possible outcome for both.

 

Science already mapped out how the Universe began, how the World formed, how old is the Life itself, Pre-Cambrian and Cambrian explosion and what followed from there. All this are Scientific facts and you don't need to be a Sage to link it with Theology.

 

3. I'm NOT going to argue who's explaination on Kurma Avatar is better.

 

But, 20 years from now when your children, exposed to Concepts such as Planet's history and Evolution comes to you and ask about Kurma Avatar and the best answer you could give is that God wasted His existence holding up a volcanoe, I couldn't help to wonder what will happen to your childrens' faith.

 

Im not saying urs cant happen, im just saying, i think mine makes more sense in the realm of human understanding.

 

It makes sense to you if you do not have adequate Scientific knowledge or ask question following Scientific knowledge. Or maybe, to a simple person, simple explaination is adequate (this is not meant as an insult, Sorry if it felt that way).

 

However, I for once will not make the same mistake made by Christians and Muslims alike, of having knowledge but not researching it properly with field of Science and end up, in the future, asked by the next generation and cannot answer then.

 

Better teach the children now about Science and that God had performed His actions in the World we know and not simply describe God as some lazy bum who sits in Heaven and do nothing (like what Christians and Muslims describe their God to be). Ahem ... no offence to either Lord Vishnu or Lord Shiva.

[Guest guest]

you misunderstood what i was saying. i wasnt saying your theory couldnt happen, i was asking how it is that a people that lived only a couple thousand years ago could have found out about pre-cambrian events that happened millions of years before humans seperated from apes.

 

Please give a more simpler account of your story for those that need a more simpler description. your delve into scientific facts only tends to confuse the truth over what exaclty you are saying. Perhaps this is, as you claim, because i am a simpler minded person, but if your truth is satyam then the truth cannot change. please explain in an easier manner.

 

 

My main point is that if humans were not around to have experienced such things, then how could they know of it, much less spread the message around of this events' existance with a story that got passed on for at least 2000 years. I find this a little hard to believe as it holds little similarities with the science that you propose the generation so deeply holds important.

[Sephiroth 0]

you misunderstood what i was saying. i wasnt saying your theory couldnt happen, i was asking how it is that a people that lived only a couple thousand years ago could have found out about pre-cambrian events that happened millions of years before humans seperated from apes.

 

Logical answer - They DIDN'T.

 

Sages in the past didn't know the significant of the Purana (that it was describing an actual event later known as Cambrian Explosion by Scientists) and simply put it as Lord Vishnu came down and protected the Dewas from the Asuras.

 

They didn't ask question on why Lord Vishnu didn't just order Indra earlier to go and get Shanjeevi Mantra, or Himself kill of Guru Sukracayra and end Asuras' advantage. Or why Lord Vishnu didn't give Amirtam to Indra and Dewas (within the period of a year when Guru Sukrachayra was doing his tapas).

 

All this is logical if Lord Vishnu wanted to defeat the Asuras and protect the Dewas, but that was never His intention (according to my logic). I believe He wanted to do as what described in Cambrian Explosion as something which benefict ALL lifeforms for millions of years to come and to Humans now as well. And He made use of both Dewas and Asuras to do so.

 

Sages in the past couldn't have understood this unless Lord Vishnu (or Lord Brahma or Lord Shiva - since both in charge of Life and Death and knows what going to happen) told Humans about it. They didn't and the Sages have no access to today's Science like Carbon-dating to understand what has happened.

 

My main point is that if humans were not around to have experienced such things, then how could they know of it, much less spread the message around of this events' existance with a story that got passed on for at least 2000 years. I find this a little hard to believe as it holds little similarities with the science that you propose the generation so deeply holds important.

 

Why do you keep thinking that Humans are the ONLY lifeform which will beneficts from God's actions? Do you have limited knowledge that Humans are ONLY intelligence lifeforms in this World?

 

And Kurma Purana is not simply 2,000 years old. It's older than that since it was passed down from one generation to another via oral.

 

As for next generations holding this important, they will because for a long time, there's several question which remained :

 

1. What caused Cambrian Explosion? Till now, reason is unknown.

 

2. What cause Consciousness (a.k.a the Mind) to appear? Science begin to understand that Cambrian Explosion maybe the reason for this and calls it Quantum Consciousness.

 

3. Is there an Intelligence Design in creation of Life in the World or did Life just evolved from nothing and continued to today? I say, Cambrian Explosion IS the Intelligence Design which mapped Evolution for millions of years to come.

[Sephiroth 0]

Kurma Avatar Purana :

 

1. Dewas lost badly to Asura. Environments of the World is effected as well due to the War.

 

2. Dewas ran to Lord Vishnu for help. Lord Vishnu suggested churning to Ocean for Amiratham. Dewas approach Asuras for help, Asuras agreed.

 

3. Churning process begin. How long is unknown. Effect - a lot of new lifeforms which didn't exist before appeared. Vasuki vomited poison but Lord Shiva saved the day.

 

4. Amiratham appeared - Lord Vishnu took it and the rest follows accordingly.

 

 

Actual Scientific Facts (follow point to point with above) :

 

1. Mass Extinction occured before a period known as Cambrian Explosion occured. Scientists found (through fossil records) that almost 80% of the World were covered in Ice and a lot of lifeforms has perished (this is concluded when Scientists found fossil records with their remains).

 

2. During the Period known as Cambrian Explosion, Scientists found out that "something" had tiled the World at angle of 45 degrees. This titling is known as True Polar Wandering. And Scientists also stated that such phenomena occured several times before as well.

 

In nutshells, True Polar Wander means North Pole had "wandered off" to where the Equator is today and Equator line is running from north to south like the Polar line is today. This I believe is because of the Pressure from the Churning process had made the World turn 45 degrees.

 

3. Scientists also found evidence (in form of fossil records) of lifeforms with newer functions after a short 40 million years (period known as Cambrian Explosion).

 

This features include thicker armours for some lifeforms, teeth to predator-like lifeform, Mitochondria cells emerging within other lifeforms and such, which made beginning stage for Evolution to come.

 

4. Mitochondria. Studies of it brings new light into its capabilities to rejuvenate human lifeforms. Mitochindria entered an endosymbiosis relationship with other lifeform during the period of Cambrian Explosion, and since then, continued to provide energy for all lifeform.

 

Matter a fact, today, we have similar lifeform to that of Mitochindria known as Spirulina :

http://www.spirulina.com/SPBSpirulina.html

 

I believe Mitochondria is the Amiratham which refered to by the Purana because its capability to provide energy. Dewas must have need it because of its energy giving capability, so they will be stronger than Asuras.

 

You maybe asking if we have Amirtham (all lifeforms HAS Mitochindria in them) in our body, then why don't we live forever?

 

Answer is in limitations of Mitochondria itself. Mitochindrian genetic undergoes mutations when it mixed with Oxygen. When it takes in glucose and Oxygen, it burns this and release energy known as ATP which used by the body.

 

However, due to Mitochondria's deal with Oxygen, its genetic material undergoes mutation and those which mutated were rejected from the Mitochindria and swallowed up by the Cell's defense system.

 

In a long run, as strains of Mitochondrian DNA gets shorter due to above process, so is the energy production. With less and less energy produced and distributed to the body, more and more cells dies and organs begins to lose its functions. And this is the process we called Aging.

 

IF Dewas are indeed beings who do not use Oxygen to produce energy like in human body, then Mitochondria in their body could not go into mutation and this could give them an unlimited supply of energy for a long period of time - thus immortality.

 

 

Also, if you notice that in Hindusm, there is four periods which starts with Satyam Yugam and ends with Kali Yugam. It could make sense that this Yugam is split in four (with declining in each) to mimic the decline of effectiveness of Amiratham in lifeform to support the lifeforms capabilities.

 

Which means, as time progresses, Humanity will lose more and more its Humanity and Intelligence and derive to become more animalistic in nature. This also means that other evolving lifeforms could take over our place as their Mitochondria reach a new height in evolution.

[Guest guest]

in the teachings which "lord vishnu told them" then why would they write it down, why would they pass it down, why tell the story at all?

 

and how did lord vishnu tell them? please do not tell me vishnu came down in a form that resembles those of the pictures which people depict Him as. vishnu is a force of life, not an incarnated form of material existance. vishnu does not have a body. he is a force, like gravity or love. he is the absolute force of existance. nota eprson that can come and tell people something. people can only understand life from "vishnu's mouth" based on observations and understandings of the experinces of life around them.

 

How could they have known of this pre-cambrian explosions? please explain how a people from a latter time can possible know of an event that occured ona micro-biological level millions of years before hand with no prior knowledge from which to build or any technological equipment to measure with????

 

Also, how old exactly is the kurma avatar?

[Sephiroth 0]

Now you being an idiot. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

How could they have known of this pre-cambrian explosions? please explain how a people from a latter time can possible know of an event that occured ona micro-biological level millions of years before hand with no prior knowledge from which to build or any technological equipment to measure with????

 

Did you even bother to wait for me to give detailed description about this before asking? Go and read above post.

 

Also, how old exactly is the kurma avatar?

 

IF my theory is true (and I believe it is), then Kurma Avatar should be over 1.5 BILLION years old, older even to the Dinosaurs.

[Guest guest]

in your theory, what exactly is kurma avatar? what is hjis position?

[Sephiroth 0]

Before that, I like to apologize for my outbreak last week. I'm dealing with some Atheists in another forum and the anger got boil over to this forum. Sorry.

 

in your theory, what exactly is kurma avatar? what is hjis position?

 

Position? You mean what does Kurma Avatar actually did? It's role?

 

If my theory is correct, Kurma Avatar is catalyst in linking two different organism into one new one - basically organism with Nucleus and another organism which later known as Mitochindria into a single organism which has both features.

 

This in return makes Kurma Avatar catalyst for Evolutional process of years to come.

 

From above process, all life in Earth begin to adapt Mitochondria as energy producer in Cellular level and abundant energy means new functions and faster evolutionary rate.

[Guest guest]

how exactly is this linkage shown in the kurma avatar stories? what part of the story makes one think about the nucleus and the mitochondria coming together? can you please elaborate using the story?

[Sephiroth 0]

how exactly is this linkage shown in the kurma avatar stories? what part of the story makes one think about the nucleus and the mitochondria coming together? can you please elaborate using the story?

 

Scientific Facts :

 

1. BEFORE Cambrian Explosion, organisms which has Nucleus were separate species, with no Mitochondria in them.

 

2. BEFORE Cambrian Explosion, organisms which were original Mitochindria were separate as well. No one knows what this original lifeforms look like or the full extend of their biological features (whether they are alive or non-living chemical components alone) because of lack of materials in studying the Original Mitochindria.

 

3. AFTER Cambrian Explosion, BOTH Nucleus and Mitochindria merged into One. The lifeform with Nucleus (already with bodily functions) emerged with Mitochindria and become a new species.

 

 

I assume that Mitochondria is the Amiratham because :

 

1. It came from the Sea (just like lifeforms with Nucleus as well).

 

2. Before Cambrian Explosion, it was separate from Nucleus so "something" must have "forced" it into unifications with Nucleus and that "something" is Kurma Avatar.

 

3. The role of Mitochindria matches closely to what the Amitatham supposed to accomplish - give immortality to the body.

 

Mitochondria also responsible for aging due to its interaction with Oxygen but if a lifeform do not have Oxygen but uses some other breathing method (such as Carbon Dixodi for example), the chance are that immortality can be established.

 

Now, important question - Do you accept that there is high chance that Amiratham IS Mitochondria?