Some Points on Bhagavad-Gita

[Subham 0]

Hari OM:

 

"MY belief and MY desire. So why it is contradiction"

 

As per definition of a slave, he should not have a belief and desire which is against his master, you are claiming that you are a Slave of God, but stating your desire is different from God's don't you think it is contradiction (at least the definition of the word slave)

 

"Following blindly is NOT the way of Hindusm"

 

i was not talking about Hinduism , i told "YOU" in that statement (since you are a Slave). can you see now that you are claiming you are a Hindu, but thinking like an alien (SLAVE)?

 

"God has NO Master. ANYONE claims such is an IDIOT who do not know God"

 

again this seems as an alien concept to me, atleast in Mahabartha, God served as a Chartioteer to Arjuna.Lord Shiva served as a servant to SundraMurthy Nayanar (another story not in Mahabartha)

 

Somewhere i had read as Bhagavan stating "I am a complete slave to my Loving Devotees, I can never refuse whatever he says or asks" and

 

That shows the Greatness of our God, he is willing to become your slave if you LOVE him and NOT threatning to make you as His SLAVE by use of Force.

 

Do you still doubt my statement that our beliefs (or mindset) is now being forced by alien belief?

 

"Define what is a Devotee"

 

is clearly explained in Narad Muni's "Bhakti Sutra", the essence of which is something like "Love God, His Names, His Words, All his creation -(including trees, animals, birds, rivers...) and surrender your ego to Him, then you become His devotee"

 

[Sephiroth 0]

As per definition of a slave, he should not have a belief and desire which is against his master, you are claiming that you are a Slave of God, but stating your desire is different from God's don't you think it is contradiction (at least the definition of the word slave)

 

What kind of idiotic defination is that? The Mind exists whether you are devotee or Slave. One who has a Mind will think things which has desires and beliefs. No one can stop a person from thinking and holding beliefs.

 

i was not talking about Hinduism , i told "YOU" in that statement (since you are a Slave). can you see now that you are claiming you are a Hindu, but thinking like an alien (SLAVE)?

 

I didn't claim I was a Hindu, did I?

 

And I'm talking about Hindusm here. You seems to think that following blindly like a cow with no intelligence is Hindusm. Well, I DON'T.

 

again this seems as an alien concept to me, atleast in Mahabartha, God served as a Chartioteer to Arjuna.Lord Shiva served as a servant to SundraMurthy Nayanar (another story not in Mahabartha)

 

In both stories, God become SERVANT, NOT SLAVES.

 

Not sure about story of Lord Shiva, but for Sri Krishna, He controlled the chariots and took Arjuna where he is needed most. Can Arjuna go anywhere he please without Sri Krishna's permission?

 

If you say Yes, Arjuna can, then that is like you are saying your legs are your slaves but your body and your legs can move separately and whereever they want to go, which is STUPID.

 

That shows the Greatness of our God, he is willing to become your slave if you LOVE him and NOT threatning to make you as His SLAVE by use of Force.

 

It is foolish people such as yourself who do not know WHO is WHOSE Slave. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

To a mother, her child is hers but in reality, her heart is bound by her child and she cannot go anywhere without thinking about her child. In that context, the mother is the slave to the child, even so it looks the opposite to you.

 

Save with husband and wife. The husband maybe the one who brings in money and wealth, hold power in decision and such, but by using bedroom policy, the wife can control his action.

 

All this shows that, even so God seems to be in your disposal, the true fact is, you are under His control for need to constantly need to adjust your attitude to suit His expectations. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Subham 0]

Hari OM:

 

"The Mind exists whether you are devotee or Slave. One who has a Mind will think things which has desires and beliefs"

 

"you are under His control for need to constantly need to adjust your attitude to suit His expectations"

 

""I for once feel He should reject the 1st two and just choose the last two"

 

i feel that there is contradications in these arguments, looks like you are saying ME to adjust myself to His desires and Beliefs, while at the same time you are also feeling that He should adjust to your beliefs and desires (reject 1 & 2 and accept only 3& 4), i think a honest crietria should be either Both of Us adjust to His desires or both of Us should be free to have own desires.

 

"I didn't claim I was a Hindu, did I?

 

And I'm talking about Hindusm here."

 

i think if you are not a Hindu then you may not be the correct person to take about Hinduism, since Hinduism (or for that matter any belief) is fully based on faith and only persons who have faith in that can speak about it, others are however welcome only to Ask about it.

 

" Can Arjuna go anywhere he please without Sri Krishna's permission? "

 

yes, Mahabharata tells that Arjuna wanted to fight with two brothers, even though Krishna told him not to do, but when Arjuna insisted Krishna told him that He will do as told (that is the day Abhimanyu dies)

 

"It is foolish people such as yourself who do not know WHO is WHOSE Slave"

 

in the initial post itself, i told i am an average intelligent person ( a polished way of telling i am a fool) and do not know many things, but still i think it is better to say so and try to know the things, instead of assuming that we already know about everything (what if our assumption was wrong?)

[Sephiroth 0]

"The Mind exists whether you are devotee or Slave. One who has a Mind will think things which has desires and beliefs"

 

"you are under His control for need to constantly need to adjust your attitude to suit His expectations"

 

""I for once feel He should reject the 1st two and just choose the last two"

 

i feel that there is contradications in these arguments, looks like you are saying ME to adjust myself to His desires and Beliefs, while at the same time you are also feeling that He should adjust to your beliefs and desires (reject 1 & 2 and accept only 3& 4), i think a honest crietria should be either Both of Us adjust to His desires or both of Us should be free to have own desires.

 

You feel there is contradiction because you're blind. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

None which I have spoke has contradiction to it.

 

Statement 1 means I have a Mind, Statement 3 is my desire (it is upto Him to choose whether He accept or not, therefore, my desire is mine alone) and Statement 2 is my belief. Both Statement 2 and 3 comes from my mind and my mind has nothing to do with whether I'm a devotee or a slave.

 

yes, Mahabharata tells that Arjuna wanted to fight with two brothers, even though Krishna told him not to do, but when Arjuna insisted Krishna told him that He will do as told (that is the day Abhimanyu dies)

 

Sri Krishna knew that Abimanyu is destined to die and gave a hint to Arjuna not to leave that place (since he is the only person who knows how to break into the formation and save Abimanyu). But like all ignorant man, Arjuna followed his own desires and order Sri Krishna away.

 

Same with your instinct. Sometimes, God will give feeling that you shouldn't go somewhere but you will be blinded by your desire and go there, only to be in trouble later.

[Subham 0]

Hari OM:

 

"But like all ignorant man, Arjuna followed his own desires and order Sri Krishna away"

 

Note that this event had taken place after Gita was reveled to him, so you mean to say that the entire teaching of Bhagvan, showing his cosmic form, etc., will have no effect and man will remain continue to remain ignorant after that?

[Sephiroth 0]

Note that this event had taken place after Gita was reveled to him, so you mean to say that the entire teaching of Bhagvan, showing his cosmic form, etc., will have no effect and man will remain continue to remain ignorant after that?

 

Yeah ... Arjuna is an ignorant man. Reasons I say this because he didn't receive Moksha and have to be reborn again (as a devotee to Lord Shiva I believe).

 

And no, no matter what God does or show, man (especially nowadays) will not believe in God or care. That is my belief, dealing with Men in various places.

 

Ignorant men will not believe in the Truth, they will believe in whatever they wish to believe. That is why Kali yugam is here - Age of Destruction.

[Subham 0]

Hari OM:

 

"And no, no matter what God does or show, man (especially nowadays) will not believe in God or care. That is my belief, dealing with Men in various places. "

 

Excellent (alien) belief i would say, so in one statement you are making all religions, their teachings and knowledge as irrelevant today, since man will not believe in God or care.

 

Dear friend, Gita, like all the books have a letter and spirit. Due to luck or good karma, Hindus were able to understand the spirit of Gita, if they would have understood only the letter of Gita, then today

 

-There will be no chairs or Sofas, only Kusa grass, tiger skin and cloth spread upon one another for seat.

 

-Archery would have been made a complusory subject and whoever fails in that would be given 100 lashes.

 

-Anybody found eating stale or pungent food would be beheaded

 

and so on (even we may have debates like whether Arujna had a long moustache or short moustache and people implementing the same style)

 

Now i believe Gita may be the only final saviour available to us before the force of Kali destorys everything (i.e., everything logical and rational) and hence it may be the only way to escape , so i would request you humbly to understand "The spirit of Gita" before concluding anything.

 

"Ignorant men will not believe in the Truth"

 

i would rather say, this statement is in stated in the reverse order (like right to left) confirming to your modern view.

 

rather i would people "who don't believe in the Truth, remain ignorant"- so whether you are ignorant or intelligent depends on how much you Yarn for the Truth and not other way round , the moment you desire Truth, God starts removing ignorance from you

 

[Guest guest]

Yeah ... Arjuna is an ignorant man. Reasons I say this because he didn't receive Moksha and have to be reborn again (as a devotee to Lord Shiva I believe)****

 

That isn't true, that's just a cooked-up story to popularise a temple in South India. lol. All people who fought at kurulshetra achieved moksha.

[Guest guest]

In Bhagvad Gita chapter X shloka 2 Lord Krishna imparts to Arjuna the secret of the domain of God, the Almighty Creator. None whomsoever has ever seen God with his physical eyes ... comprehending God is beyond the domain of senses and mind. Only after we have risen above a certain mental level can we visualize from our inner eyes the true concept of God. During the times of war sometimes a reconnaissance by flight is done to assess the ground realities ... which is neither possible nor feasible while remaining on the ground. This cuts down heavily on the casualties and augments the already existent planning. In the domain of God we have to take absolute control over our senses and also the mind before we can even think of visualizing the mighty power of God, the Almighty Creator.

 

How do we establish control over the mental powers ... is something which every Human Being longs for! Something beyond our reach using the available physical means. The power of celibacy practiced in its entirety ... followed by awakening of the Kundalini which in turn energizes the sahastra pushpa in our forehead (the thousand leaf lotus petaled chamber in our brain). The moment the sahastra pushpa is awakened ... all the dormant energies in the brain get released. This leads to opening up of inherent powers that be ... one establishes contact with God, the Almighty Creator for the balance of Life. What a blissful stage it would be. All dross having been removed ... our Atman (The Soul Within) reaches the last leg of Cosmic Life. Our Atman becomes one with the Creator.

 

Senses and mind are limited to a Human Being ... the highest manifested power on Mother Earth ... no other being encompasses powers anything even comparable with that of a Human Being. Only Human Being has the power to think ... to think logically until the final goal is achieved. The common man also thinks but he is always confused ... one whose thinking is focused and already has framed a goal of Life ... how can such a one be left behind without ever achieving his goal ... Madame Curie, Henry Ford, Winston Churchill are some examples who fought against the existing norms of time ... their indomitable will succeeded in the end ... fear was never the cause for worry. They stood the ground even in most adverse circumstances. They fought well within themselves and always stood by God ... never letting down the small inner voice which always guided them on the right path. Even such Human Beings were far away from the kingdom of God ... for the kingdom of God belongs to those who not only think and work for the benefit of mankind ... but having risen above the control of senses and mind they can perceive and distinguish wrong from right. They have become the guardian angels who shall now maintain the kingdom of God on Mother Earth.

 

Lord Krishna emphasizes upon the fact that the mind of a normal Human Being is unable to conceive the origination of God as all creation exists since Times Immemorial and is without a beginning. Yet, we can always feel the presence of God everywhere since the time of big bang. It is not God himself who manifests but his divinity ... our Atman (The Soul Within) that manifests on Mother Earth and shall always continue to manifest. Such Spiritual Masters after learning of the secrets of the domain of God can preach to the mankind the benefits of traveling on the path of wisdom. Once we believe in the fact that God always remains unseen but still we can always feel his presence ... what our Spiritual elders have to say in the matter is accepted by the society. Not because they are more learned than us but because they are the nodal points where manifests the divinity itself.

 

Lord Krishna also emphasizes upon the fact that the stage of a Human Being ... the highest manifested stage on Mother Earth is not to be passed of as a mere fact of Life. Only as a Human Being can one achieve Moksha (salvation). Even Devas (Celestial beings) have to come down to Mother Earth and take the garb of a Human Being before final liberation can take place. No other form other than of a Human Being can achieve salvation (Moksha). Having reached the highest stage of manifested Life ... must we all not strive to obtain salvation in this very Life! Difficult ... yet, not unachievable. We, living on Mother Earth strive to gain the kingdom of Heaven after we leave the body ... only again to come back on Mother Earth ... take the garb of a Human Being and realize God. The cycle can always go on and on ... until we realize the subtle truth. Does it mean that while in Heaven we cannot gain God realization ... Emancipation forever from the cycle of Birth and Death ... yes, we never can do that ... we need to come back to Mother Earth ... take the body of a Human Being ... become a Spiritual Master of the highest order like King Arjuna ... only then can we hope to achieve liberation from the manifest Life forever.

 

Spiritual masters who have not yet realized God ... Spiritual leaders of the level of Aurobindo, Vivekananda, Rabindra Nath Tagore, Acharya Rajneesh (osho) ... they also need to rise still higher up the mental plain before they can achieve liberation forever from the cycle of Life and Death. All these masters truly desired Self-Realization in their Life yet, could not succeed and all have truthfully admitted of this fact in their biographies and autobiographies. Similarily as heating water to the temperatures of 99 degrees centigrade cannot produce enough steam power enabling a steam engine to get started ... one needs to reach the hundred percent level before full steam power can be generated to give the final thrust to the Spiritual engine of Life. Vivekananda left his body at 99 degrees centigrade ... he was aware of it ... he deeply repented it yet, he had no solution. Similarily, Aurobindo desired God realization within this Life and admitted at the fag end of his Life that in spite of all the efforts he could not attain Self-Realization and hoped that in the next Life he would attain it ... such was the will power of these Spiritual Masters! Admitting of their failures and achievements in public is a feat which cannot be accomplished by man of lower virtues.

 

Why so? Not even the Spiritual Masters who have accomplished a certain state of Spiritual development are unable to conceive the concept of God. Not possible for Celestial beings (Devtas) and even Spiritual Masters ... there must be something divine in reaching the stage of God realization. To be able to distinguish the Pearls from the ordinary stones ... to be able to reach a stage when everything is permanent bliss ... what more is there to seek after having realized God.

 

 

[Sephiroth 0]

Hmph ... Now, I'm ignorant, eh? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Fine, have a nice day. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Sephiroth 0]

That isn't true, that's just a cooked-up story to popularise a temple in South India. lol. All people who fought at kurulshetra achieved moksha.

 

I don't remember reading ANYWHERE that ALL people who fought in Kurushektra had achieved Moksha. I don't remember Arjuna receiving it either.

[Subham 0]

Hari OM:

 

"Hmph ... Now, I'm ignorant, eh?"

 

Sorry i din't say you are ignorant, rather what i am saying is people who are not interested in Truth (but rather in personal gains or any other thing) will remain ignorant.

 

Bhagavan states in Gita that "Man is composed of Faith, and whatever he Believes he is verily that" and we can conclude that this statement summarizes the Hinduism.

 

So if you believe you are Brahman, then you are IT (Tatvam Asi- Advaitham)

 

If you believe you are an empty Shell and God is inside you making you function then you are an empty shell (Vistadvitham)

 

If you believe you are an spark which was seperated from God in the begining and will merge to Him in the end and no changes happens to you anytime then you are the Spark (Dvaitham)

 

If you believe you are (made) from clay and will return to Clay then you are Clay (Sankyha and alien beliefs)

 

If you believe you are an Asuran (no pun indtended) then you are an Asuran waiting to be slayed by Him.

 

That is the reason in most of the Prayers in Hinduism, there is a Saying "Aham Brahamasmi" - I am Brahaman. When you are keep on saying that you start believing it and once you start believing it then you are It.

 

Note whatever your belief you have to Finally merge in Him at the End of Brahams life, what you believe and how strong you believe can't change this Final event.

 

However if you believe in positive things, the path is beautiful and for negative things the path is fearful.

 

Both the Rishis and Asuras merged into Him Finally (as stated in Srimad Bhagavadam- The fruit of God's happiness and anger is the same, which is merger), however we find that Rishis were living mostly happy with wives, children and had a smooth pass-over, while the Asuras last years were filled with fear , anger , jealousy,. etc., and they suffered.

 

And i also think due to this reason, Hinduism will again become a major force in recent future, Because all alien beliefs are now talking about "End of Times" so the time will soon end for them due to their strong belief and Hinduism will regain its past glory.

 

[Sephiroth 0]

Bhagavan states in Gita that "Man is composed of Faith, and whatever he Believes he is verily that" and we can conclude that this statement summarizes the Hinduism.

 

And many times, you believe in wrong thing, follow wrong path and end up away from the Lord. How do you know when you are in the right path and when you are not?

 

If you believe you are an Asuran (no pun indtended) then you are an Asuran waiting to be slayed by Him.

 

Not all Asurans were slayed by Him. There are some who blessed by Him as well. Pali is one.

 

And i also think due to this reason, Hinduism will again become a major force in recent future, Because all alien beliefs are now talking about "End of Times" so the time will soon end for them due to their strong belief and Hinduism will regain its past glory.

 

OR Mankind will come to an End. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Subham 0]

Hari OM:

 

"How do you know when you are in the right path and when you are not"

 

There is no right path or wrong Path, and there is no Path leading AWAY from the God.

 

All the paths lead to Him alone, some are short and sweet and some are long and difficult.

 

 

Pali(Bali) was not slayed by Him because of his Grand father Prahalad, so exceptions does not become the rule.

 

"Mankind will come to an End"

 

only if all the Mankind will believe in "End of Times" which i think is not possible, a large portion of man kind may die due to wrong belief, however who don't believe in "End of Times" will again take birth , only the other group can't take birth due to their strong belief.

 

There is only one "Absolute Truth" - can't be explained or even understood. But there are infinite "Relative Truths" - each one caused by the Belief of an individual Jiva. Out of these there is nothing like "Real Relative Truth" or something, each one is true to the extent one believes it is true.

 

The only aim of your life(s) is to find out Your "Relative Truth". You can't just blindly follow the "Relative Truth" found out by your ancestors (or Guru or Prophets or whoever), people can help you in the process, however as long as you had not discovered it (or it is not relieved to you) you will be in the cycle of birth and death and except for the Truth no other factor (money, knowledge, health, force, energy, connections to high places,...) can help you break that cycle.

[Sephiroth 0]

There is no right path or wrong Path, and there is no Path leading AWAY from the God.

 

All the paths lead to Him alone, some are short and sweet and some are long and difficult.

 

That maybe your belief but not mine.

I don't believe everyone who mumbles about God has any faith in God. Atheists also mumble about God, is that mean they have faith?

 

Pali(Bali) was not slayed by Him because of his Grand father Prahalad, so exceptions does not become the rule.

 

Nope, Bali didn't die by Lord Vishnu's hands because Bali had respect and love for Lord Vishnu. And also, Bali were in the side of righteous because his father was unjustly killed by Indra.

 

only if all the Mankind will believe in "End of Times" which i think is not possible, a large portion of man kind may die due to wrong belief, however who don't believe in "End of Times" will again take birth , only the other group can't take birth due to their strong belief.

 

There's another misconception from you.

What Mankind believe or don't believe doesn't matter. IF God choose to destroy all life by destroying the Planet - that is His choice.

 

IF God choose to safeguard Man and give him another chance (I don't why He want to do that), that is His choice.

 

IF God choose to eliminate Man and replace Man with another species, that is His choice also.

 

Stop having arrogant thoughts that you could change anything by your mere thoughts, as if you are the Great Maheswara. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Subham 0]

Hari OM:

 

"What Mankind believe or don't believe doesn't matter. IF God choose to destroy all life by destroying the Planet - that is His choice"

 

If what you believe or don't believe doesn't and everything is His choice you are echoing some very old beliefs in Hinduism (called the fate theory), which in turn means that you are not Responsible for your actions or beliefs, everything is His choice in other word Fate. Now you can do anything and everything you like within your capacity, and no matter what you do (or don't do) is going to change what you would experience, what an irrational belief.

 

Also please note that destroying This Planent does not mean destroying You (unless you claim you are the body), even destroying the Whole universe will not destroy you, since you are beyond the material universe and an eternal Jiva. You can be "destroyed" only when you loose your identity or ego. [i mean this in literal sense, not in the meaning of a humble person where You supress your ego for some cause]

[Sephiroth 0]

You know ... for someone who claims to be follower of Gita, I truly think you don't know Bhavagad Gita.

 

what you believe or don't believe doesn't and everything is His choice you are echoing some very old beliefs in Hinduism (called the fate theory), which in turn means that you are not Responsible for your actions or beliefs, everything is His choice in other word Fate. Now you can do anything and everything you like within your capacity, and no matter what you do (or don't do) is going to change what you would experience, what an irrational belief.

 

Wrong interpretation.

 

You do everything to the best of your ability as an offering to Him (whether He is Lord Shiva or Lord Vishnu), whether He accept it or not, it depends on Him. IF He accept your offering, you will be successful in your endavour. THAT is Jnana Yoga and those who does it are Jnana Yogis. What? Your Vaishnavas didn't teach you that?

 

Funny thing is, you talk about making offering of food to Him but forget about offering yourself. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

And major difference between Muslims and Jnana Yogis is, Jnana Yogis MUST offer their best. Muslim on the other hand offer only what they could and even that, they don't do properly and call such lazy endavours Fate.

 

You go and buy gold, you choose the best for your money. You go and eat in restaurant, you expect the best food available and best service you can get. You go to doctor and you expect the best medicine money can buy.

 

Yet, when you choose to make offering to God, you give what you can and think it is enough. And no, it is NOT irrational belief, it is Jnana Yoga which you failed to understand. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Samurais in Japan, Knights of Christianity in Europe and Kyastrias of India all gave their very lives as offering to God in the way of Jnana Yogis. Sun God and Yama Dharma (Angel of Death) also Jnana Yogis as well for conducting their duties properly. All of them do not follow irrational beliefs. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Also please note that destroying This Planent does not mean destroying You (unless you claim you are the body), even destroying the Whole universe will not destroy you, since you are beyond the material universe and an eternal Jiva. You can be "destroyed" only when you loose your identity or ego. [i mean this in literal sense, not in the meaning of a humble person where You supress your ego for some cause]

 

Wrong belief or interpretation again. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

You seems to have this twisted notion that you are a God here. I don't know which tree you fall down from (or which tree fell on you) but your interpretation of Gita is as accurate as saying Prostitutes are virgins.(Sarcasm) /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

It is said in Bhavagad Gita that the Lord is the ONLY one who is capable of "killing" the Soul. When men kill another, he kills the body but the soul will find another host and reborn.

 

But when the Lord kills the body, He will take the Soul and there is no more rebirth. What the Lord does is His business.

 

So, by destroying the world and cease to have a place where the Souls will reborn in, humanity WILL perish.

 

Even if the World is not destroyed but humanity is wiped out, the soul will find other hosts to be reborn in and thus, the circle begins anew.

[Subham 0]

Hari OM:

 

It may be true that i had not understood Gita properly , in the first thread itself i told i am not an expert.

 

i think you are also no better, and you are becoming emotional too, i think loosing an argument is much better than loosing sight of Truth.

 

Now Bhagvan says in Gita, "Whoever offers me fruit, flower, leaves or even water With LOVE, I appear in person before him and accept his offerings".

 

Where does He say you should only offer yourself and what do you think He will do with your offering?

 

My dear friend it is LOVE that matters, it does not matter what you offer him and he does need anything also.

 

Say if a friend comes to your house, will he be happy if you offer him lot of Gold, dresses and costly food with a Frowning face or a cup of coffee with a smiling face? unless a person is in dire need of money all anybody expects is love.

 

So, i think you are applying A-brahmic filter to Gita and telling that He expects you to completely surrender to Him and He is not expecting any love from you , because He is at higher Altar than you, but Hinduism says that you and God are at the same level - Atman (Jiva and Prama)

 

And i dont know why you are comparing Muslims and Jnana yogis, Muslims are mainly based on Faith or Submission and Jnana Yogis are full of questioning (Read vedantha) they question the very concept of God.

 

Muslims belief is some thing like:

 

"My ideology is Supreme and pure while all other ideologies are impure and corrupted"

 

"If you don't believe my ideology then you are a sinner"

 

"Since you are a sinner I have the right to punish or kill you"

 

If you accept that ideology then you are accepting that you are a sinner.

 

If you reject or question that ideology then you will be killed (Blasphmey or whatever)

 

Where as Jnana Yogis don't have an ideology, they are in a continous enquiry mode, they enquire about each and every thing.

[Sephiroth 0]

t may be true that i had not understood Gita properly , in the first thread itself i told i am not an expert.

 

Sounds like you didn't listen to their advice. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Now Bhagvan says in Gita, "Whoever offers me fruit, flower, leaves or even water With LOVE, I appear in person before him and accept his offerings".

 

Where does He say you should only offer yourself and what do you think He will do with your offering?

 

My dear friend it is LOVE that matters, it does not matter what you offer him and he does need anything also.

 

He said it in Bhakti Yoga - All man performs Actions and some tries to become actionless (by performing meditation etc) to cut themselves from accumulating Karma, which almost impossible because even thoughts (which become action) are actions as well, thus generate Karma.

 

So what is the best way? Be inaction or do action for His sake and be free of Karma?

 

Jnana Yoga is method of performing action without seeking its fruits of the action, surrending oneself to the Lord your actions and fruits of the action and thus cutting yourself from good and bad Karma.

 

So, i think you are applying A-brahmic filter to Gita and telling that He expects you to completely surrender to Him and He is not expecting any love from you , because He is at higher Altar than you, but Hinduism says that you and God are at the same level - Atman (Jiva and Prama)

 

Wrong ... it is not Abrahamic filter. To me, Abrahamic religion (Islam) twisted Bhakti and Jnana Yoga into idiotic beliefs, to the fact that some Muslim actually believe that going to toilet and wash their a$$ properly is sign of Bhakti. Also that action of screwing their wives are alos method of Bhakti. Makes my skin crawl.

 

And WHERE did it say that you and God are in same level? Show me.

 

Your Soul is like a drop of water - just one droplet in billions of other droplets in the river known as Society. By stating that you and God is in same level is like saying a droplet of water will become an Ocean when it emerges with the Ocean at the end of the journey.

 

And i dont know why you are comparing Muslims and Jnana yogis, Muslims are mainly based on Faith or Submission and Jnana Yogis are full of questioning (Read vedantha) they question the very concept of God.

 

Wrong again ... Jnana Yogis are people who commit themselves in field of Action to reunite with God.

 

Bhakti Yogis are people who commit themselves in feild of Submission and Faith to reunite with God.

 

Dharma Yogis are the one who commit themselves to field of knowledge and Science in order to reunite with God.

 

This three category is from Bhavagad Gita and, frankly speaking, I don't know what you are.

[Subham 0]

Hari OM:

 

i think you are inventing new yogas, as far as i know there are 8 major paths or yogas in Hinduism:

 

Jnana Yoga - Attaining Him through Knowledge

Karma Yoga-through action

Bhakti Yoga- Through devotion

Dhyana Yoga-Through meditation

Dana Yoga-Through giving (Randidevan, Karna)

Hatha Yoga- Kundalini

Tapas- Through performing Tapas

Misc- any other way like austerity, penances, hearing sacred lore, piligramage,etc.,

 

Note that you had interchanged Jnana and Karma , Jnana means knowledge and Karma means action.

 

i had never had about Dhrama Yoga, Dhrama as per Hinduism is Praviriti (how to conduct yourself in a society) while yoga is Nivriti (how to escape from the society), i dont think we can have a Dhrama Yoga (oxymoron)

 

Bhagavan says in Gita-

 

"First you will see the entire creation within yourself and then in Me"

 

"I am Arjuna among Pandavas"

 

"Brahama is the fire, Brahama is the Ghee, Brahama is the laddle and Brahama is the one who pours Ghee into the Fire with Laddle"

 

And note that it does not matter in which chapter He tells these, truth does not change from chapter to chapter.

 

And other statements (outside Gita):

 

Aham Brahamasmi - I am Brahaman

 

Tatvam Asi - That is This

 

Prajyagna Brahamam - Consicousness is Brahaman

 

Puranam Idhao Puranam Adah - That is infinite and this is infinite

 

"frankly speaking, I don't know what you are"

 

Frankly i also don't know what (or Who) am I and i am in the search of it.

 

 

[Sephiroth 0]

Beforehand, thanks for correcting it.

 

Jnana Yoga - Attaining Him through Knowledge

Karma Yoga-through action

Bhakti Yoga- Through devotion

 

Yes, accordance to the Gita.

 

Note that you had interchanged Jnana and Karma , Jnana means knowledge and Karma means action.

 

Sorry, my mistake. I interchanged the words but the meaning is the same. One approach God by action and other by seeking knowledge.

 

As for the rest, if it is not stated in the Gita, I will not be bothered ... no insulted attended.

 

Bhagavan says in Gita-

 

"First you will see the entire creation within yourself and then in Me"

"I am Arjuna among Pandavas"

"Brahama is the fire, Brahama is the Ghee, Brahama is the laddle and Brahama is the one who pours Ghee into the Fire with Laddle"

 

And note that it does not matter in which chapter He tells these, truth does not change from chapter to chapter.

 

He said He exist within ALL creations, including you and me. It didn't say you will become God.

[Subham 0]

Hari OM:

 

First of all congrats on accepting mistakes, it needs a brave heart to do so.

 

All the eight paths are mentioned in Gita (including the correct and wrong ways of doing them), that is why the leaders of all Paths had quoted and written commentary on it (but of course each person exaggragtes his path, while ignoring or skipping other Paths)

 

If GOD exists within me then I am GOD, where is the question of Becoming GOD?

[Sephiroth 0]

First of all congrats on accepting mistakes, it needs a brave heart to do so.

 

Nonsense ... Humans make mistake and Humans correct their mistakes. I don't see what so hard about that or why a brave heart is required for anything.

 

All the eight paths are mentioned in Gita (including the correct and wrong ways of doing them), that is why the leaders of all Paths had quoted and written commentary on it (but of course each person exaggragtes his path, while ignoring or skipping other Paths)

 

I only know (and recognise) 4 Yogas - Dharma, Jnana and Karma as Yoga for Action and Bhakti as Yoga for Beliefs. This is as accordance to Puranas and the Gita. The rest are add-ons which comes later.

 

If GOD exists within me then I am GOD, where is the question of Becoming GOD?

 

If you believe such, then you are a fool. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

It is like saying, you eat a fruit (with seeds in them) and proclaim you are a tree which bears fruit.

 

Humans have Mind - product of the Brain and its sensors. As long as the Mind exists, you are you alone.

[Subham 0]

if every body is accepting their mistakes and correcting it then there would be no wars today.

 

i don't know what is the criteria you use to decide which is original Gita and which is add-on

 

i can't understand how "eating a fruit" corlates to "Existing of God within" , sorry i can't even connect the two with my wildest imaganation.

 

so you mean to say only mindless persons can "become" God?

 

A drop of Ocean is not different from Ocean, Qualitiatively, it has all the properties of the Ocean , which i quoted in an earlier reply, "Whatever is present in Macrosom (God) is also present in Microsom (Me)"

 

So taking your example of Drop and Ocean, itself, i can claim that i am not Qualitatively different from Him.

 

i think most of the issue, is because you are imagining God to be a shining, all intelligent, all powerful, angry Person sitting at some corner in the Universe, and giving grace or punishment selectively to some persons. if you understand the Hindu concept of God, then all your confusion will go away.

[Sephiroth 0]

i can't understand how "eating a fruit" corlates to "Existing of God within" , sorry i can't even connect the two with my wildest imaganation.

 

Think harder. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

so you mean to say only mindless persons can "become" God?

 

What is a Mind? Mind is product of the Brain and the Sensors; both the Gita and Buddhism (and even Sufism for that matter) will agree to it.

 

Since the Mind is a product of the Brain and Sensors, it is false because you create the Mind by experiencing your world.

 

Can a False notion of a Self promote you to find the Absolute truth? I don't believe it can.

 

A drop of Ocean is not different from Ocean, Qualitiatively, it has all the properties of the Ocean , which i quoted in an earlier reply, "Whatever is present in Macrosom (God) is also present in Microsom (Me)"

 

Nonsense ... that is your Ego speaking. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

If you mix a droplet of poison with a droplet of water and mix both, then drink it, you will die (depends on how strong the poison is).

 

If you mix the same poison in a jug of water and drink it, you will die in much slower rate.

 

If you mix it in the ocean and drink some of its water, you will not die because the ocean is so vast, the poison will lost its characteristics and its poison effects. In this statement, the poison do not exist, only the Ocean.

 

Same way, those who returned back to God will lose their own Self and become part of everything else (and God). They will not become God but a part of God, like your eyes is yours to use but not for you to hold on to.