Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Hi... I am a Hindu but also a man of science. I believe in evolution but am not sure if it is approved by other Hindu's. Any insight would be appreciated. Jai Shree Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samkhya Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 According to me, the fact of Evolution is of a lesser importance that the mechanisms - the how - of Evolution. The problem is that the dominant theory, neo-darwinism, and also an evolutionary biologist as Stephen Jay Gould, give a large room to chance in the explanation of Evolution, that which seems at odds with the belief in a cosmic purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 but I believe in evolution that is directed rather than haphazard. But this is purely subjective. Where one may see already the justification for a God, another may see none. Where one may choose to see God as some whimsical being, and thus see life itself as a mere product of chance, and not necessarily following any rules and thus life is seen as a display of completely free will, another may see this as cause to believe in no God because that person might believe God has a singular purpose and the purpose is set in stone while life may not fit this model. It really does depend on how you define God and how you define evolution. If those two definitions are compatible with each other, then you obviously should not have a problem in your belief of God. Nobody truly knows whether evolution is directed or not. Whether humans would have existed no matter what course evolution would take. Whether there even ARE any other possible courses evolution could/would take. However, Gopi Krishna, a Hindu who lived in Kashmir and had arisen his kundalini and wrote about his experiences, DID believe in evolution, but evolution that had a particular purpose or direction. He believed the shakti in all of us was intelligent and it was responsible for the course that evolution took. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maadhav Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 a hindu is a theist first. if there is evolution, it does not mean god is learning to make better models of bodies. it means the souls are buidling different bodies according to their desires and environment. it is easy to understand that man is able to make a house design of his choice. same is true for a jiva selecting/designing a body for himself. but the fact is that designing a body is not just the jiva's work. other jivas and environment and karma of different jivas also play part in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganeshprasad Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Jai Ganesh Pranam Madhav Kem che bhai jaja thi ram ram nice answer. souls do not have to build but to choose from 84lakh of species to choose from. Jai Shree Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 If you find Aliens all the theories will become false, because you will not know where the origin is, the entire universe has formed from one place, the big bang theory. Then the Aliens will come up with new God and concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 in vedic literature there's plenty of alien's descriptions.... devas.. gandharva.. raksasa.... asuras... so no problem of being philosophically or theologically put in chrisis by them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganeshprasad Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Jai Ganesh Re (If you find Aliens all the theories will become false, because you will not know where the origin is, the entire universe has formed from one place, the big bang theory. Then the Aliens will come up with new God and concept. ) Oh, I have no illusion about the origin, if all you can offer is aliens and big bangs then I pity you, even a child can observe that a bang can only lead to destruction and ciaos; it can not bring about order and creation. I suggest you read Bhagvat Gita Lord Krishna spoke 5000years ago especially chapter 16.He speaks about people who thinks this creation has no bases. Jai Shree Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samkhya Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 "Oh, I have no illusion about the origin, if all you can offer is aliens and big bangs then I pity you, even a child can observe that a bang can only lead to destruction and ciaos; it can not bring about order and creation." You seem to deny Big bang with a commonsensical argument. As far as I know, "Big bang" is only intended to mean the beginning of the expansion of space and evolution of matter. But I need a confirmation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganeshprasad Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Jai Ganesh Re (You seem to deny Big bang with a commonsensical argument.) I can not accept the so called scientific theory of big bang and do not forget it is a theory only, it presupposes existing of mass of matter, which blows up in all direction question arises where dose the matter come from and what triggers the explosion and even more astounding is, every thing fall in to perfect place brought about by a bang. Have you ever observed such a phenomena any where? Yes the universe will end with a bang, the Vedic science speaks of dissolution and creation but it comes about with the will of the Lord. We observe in our small world intelligence behind any creation and then to think the whole cosmic creation comes about without any intelligence behind it is utter madness on gigantic proposition Re (As far as I know, "Big bang" is only intended to mean the beginning of the expansion of space and evolution of matter.) Pure speculation. As far as I know complex matter in due course of time decays in to simpler form and not other way round. Re (But I need a confirmation.) You can put your faith in scientific speculation which is for ever changing theory, on the origin of creation in which case you may wait for ever or accept the Vedic science unchanged over the years, confirms our own observation that, even a tiny creation, comes about with an intelligence behind it. Jai Shree Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maadhav Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 << souls do not have to build but to choose from 84lakh of species to choose from. >> yes, but when a jiva has special desire in special environment, god helps make a new kind of body to suit that desire. so, ultimtely it is god that does it for jiva. jiva gets what it deserves, no more, no less. amArA paN tamne zAzA karine rAmrAm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samkhya Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 ««« We observe in our small world intelligence behind any creation and then to think the whole cosmic creation comes about without any intelligence behind it is utter madness on gigantic proposition »»» Why do you relate big bang to the atheistic view of the world? Is atheism involved in the theory of big bang? Can't somebody believe that the evolution of the world since big bang is directed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Do you think people who have written on Big Bang theory are kids, Do you think people who are in NASA are kids. I really pity on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 not kids, conditioned souls... so their opinion is not conclusive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Hinduism does not believe in any evolution. Hindus believe in creation. Purusha Sukta mentions how the world came into being. But that is just poetic imagination. Purusha being a "Pashu", Brahmanas came from Purusha's mouth, etc, is nice, but the bottom line is that according to Purusha Sukta, the world was "created", did not evolve. There are innumerable Puranic stories, the most famous being Shiva and Shakti taking various forms of animals, etc; this again speaks of creation. Kalidasa's "Jagathah Pitharou Vande" indicates that Shiva and Shakti are the primeval parents for the universe. Taittareeya Upanishad describes another way the universe came into existence, which sounds almost like evolution: "Aakaashaath Vaayuh, Vaayoragnih, Agneraapah, Aapah Prithvi, Prithivyoushadhah, Oushadhonnam, Annaath Purushah." First there was Space (Aakaasha); from Space came Air (Vaayu), from whence came Agni (Fire), which gave birth to Aapah (water), which gave rise to Prithvi (Earth); from Prithvi came plants (Oushadhayah) and from the plants came Purusha or man. If one considers air is really gas, galactic or otherwise and water is really liquid, this statement from Taittareeya Upanishad almost talks about how the earth is born from the cosmos. But this is the only place where Vedas speak about evolution in a sense. But even here, the hand of God is apparently evident. Creation for Hindus. But that does not mean it is the truth. We all know that Hinduism is not 100% true, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganeshprasad Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Jai Ganesh Re (Do you think people who have written on Big Bang theory are kids, Do you think people who are in NASA are kids. I really pity on you.) No doubt these are highly inteligent people but trying to unlock the mystries of creation by studying inert matter. for me life comes from life and not from dead matter. Chant the names of the lord it is a powerful tool to understand the spritual subject matter. It want cost you anything. Jai Shree Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 "Creation for Hindus. But that does not mean it is the truth. We all know that Hinduism is not 100% true, right? " a religion, as a school, is to be followed to discover if it is effective and valid a little pupil who wants to decide that something that the school teachs is allegoric, and sometime is true is simply pathetic vedas say that they are pure knowledge, truth... they cannot be followed believing the opposite.. actually there's nothing to believe, we have to follow and practice strictly and see if the practice brings results that's the way to decide if a religion is false or true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maadhav Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 << Creation for Hindus. >> no. as far as we know, it is for all who take it. << But that does not mean it is the truth. >> no hindu takes something that is not a truth. hindus have shortcut ways to know the truth. << We all know that Hinduism is not 100% true, right? >> no. as far as we hindus know, it is for all the mankind for all the times and places, and peoples. i have seen people who study vedas and upanishads just to find ways how to riducule or find faults in hinduism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rajashekhar Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 "no hindu takes something that is not a truth. hindus have shortcut ways to know the truth." Really? I can offer dozens of examples of Hindus (including my own kith and kin) accepting what is not the truth. Don't defend Hindus when we are wrong. "no. as far as we hindus know, it is for all the mankind for all the times and places, and peoples. Yeah, right. When do we start dividing Americans, Europeans or even the Arabs according to their Varnashrama Dharma? When do we start telling them, "Na Stree Svaathantryam Arhathi"? "i have seen people who study vedas and upanishads just to find ways how to riducule or find faults in hinduism." The Vedas and Upanishads don't have too many things to ridicule. I hope you have studied and appreciated the brilliance in the Samhita Kandas as well as the Vedantas. The Brahmanas with the animal sacrifices are another story but hey! that is religion for you. The truly ridiculous items appear in the Hindu literature in the form of Puranas like Krishna Leela or Rama Charitha Manasa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 you are simply choosing from religious message what suites better to your taste. This is not a serious behaviour and it is aganst any principle of acquiring culture by school and training it is really more coherent to refuse everything, because it is not possible to demonstrate that puranas are false while upanishads, because there's no stories, but only philosophy, is true if i believe that when you speak stories about your life you are a lie, and when you speak philosophical statements you say the truth is simply stupid.. or simply reveals that we do want to build our own religin picking here and there.. and that's not spirituality.. and not sanatana dharma religion comes from god,not from ourselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rajashekhar Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 [it is really more coherent to refuse everything, because it is not possible to demonstrate that puranas are false while upanishads, because there's no stories, but only philosophy, is true [if i believe that when you speak stories about your life you are a lie, and when you speak philosophical statements you say the truth is simply stupid.. or simply reveals that we do want to build our own religin picking here and there..] I have difficulty understanding your objections (I suppose they are objections), but it sounds like you are stating that (a) Puranas are all true, and (b) We should believe in EVERYTHING that Hinduism tells us? Is this true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samkhya Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 He seems to imply that, since religious texts allege to be the Word of God, they must be utterly true. If there is one error, it means that they are not the Word of God, who is infallible, therefore they are not reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 I have difficulty understanding your objections (I suppose they are objections), but it sounds like you are stating that (a) Puranas are all true, and (b) We should believe in EVERYTHING that Hinduism tells us? Is this true? --believing is a false problem. Too much attention on believing is a defect of middle eastern religions who consider joining and believing somewhat accessing a higher stage or something like that. Sometimes the importance is so excessive that reasoning is considered irreligious. The other side of the coin of this behaviour is the atheist.. who, seeing that they decide about important truths only by feeling (=belief), he feels himself authorized to do the same thing in the opposite sense. So a believer will feel that god exist, and another kind of believer will feel that god does not exist.. all feeling, no cosciousness, no experience. Vedas teach that religion is a training.. that it is necessary accept a pure spiritual master and be initiated in a progressive journey of "upgrading" our mind to a higher understanding to experience what, with a limited mind, we can judge impossible or false.... the training is intellectual, philosophical, but also mystical.. there's mantras, prayers, pilgrimages.. and some life rules to follow. Exactly like school if we both do not study piano.. we will never understand the pleasure experienced by someone playing piano. And if we remain outside the relationship man-woman but we study only what happens in the body of two lovers by a biological point of view we'll never understand love. religion is like that.. it is not only intellectualism, but also love, devotion, experience, school.... and increasing our perceptions in my neophite condition it is useless that i show to be sure that divine lilas are true, and in your condition of "external" of simple "examiner" of religion, not a practitioneer, it is useless to state that such activities are false..... if we do not follow the process, we cannot judge the process and the culture who surrounds him.. when we are speaking of other sciences we accept it easily, when we speak of religion, because we are polluted by the useless principle of preventive faith, we uselessly decide to accept everything fanatically or to refuse everything or something..... fanatically Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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