broken bones of jesus

[Guest guest]

Please read the verses that are supposed to be claiming that Christ should have been a military leader and married with loin born children.

 

Isaiah 2:3 - And many nations shall go, and they shall say, "Come, let us go up to the L-rd's mount, to the House of the G-d of Jacob, and let Him teach us of His ways, and we will go in His paths;" for out of Zion shall the Torah come forth, and the Word of the L-rd from Jerusalem.

 

Ezekiel 46:16-17 – (16) Thus says the L-rd G-d: "If the Prince gives a gift to any of his sons, it is his inheritance to remain in their possession; it is their property by inheritance. (17) But if he gives a gift of his inheritance to one of his servants, then it shall be his [the servant's] until the year of liberty, and then it returns to the Prince; only to his sons shall his inheritance belong.

 

 

No where you will find such. I am a Siva bhakta and I find these attempts childish.

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

You people, like many Christians, have only one agenda -- to do propanda of your belief and throw shruti to the winds. Have you read the Shruti yourself?

 

 

careful now. You may be accused of the same.

 

 

This reply is not for you. I know what reply you will give, since you have willed yourself to be blind forever.

 

But lest other readers may not be fooled.

 

 

 

and you think you know better. This is all your EGO. anyway this is for you AND OTHERS.

 

 

IV. iv. 5. 5.

a Homage to Bhava and to Rudra.

b -----

e Homage to him of a thousand eyes, and to him of a hundred bows.

f Homage to him who haunteth the mountains, and to Çipivista.

 

 

This is true. Rudra is called Shipivishta in this verse. Rudra is called Shiva(auspicious) as well and HE, Lord Rudra, is verily so. But perhaps you should know that Lord Rudra did not acquire such merits independently.

 

There is Sruti in support of this.

 

asya devasya mīḷhuṣo vayā viṣṇoreṣasya prabhṛthe havirbhiḥ |

vide hi rudro rudriyaṃ mahitvaṃ yāsiṣṭaṃ vartiraśvināvirāvat ||(Rig Veda 7:40:5)

 

With offerings I propitiate the branches of this swift-moving God, the bounteous Visnu.

Hence Rudra gained his Rudra-strength: O Asvins, ye sought the house that hath celestial viands.

 

Besides read Visvakarma Sukta of Rig Veda, which clearly says that all NAMES belong only to Visnu, for HE is the real owner of all those qualities.(Rig Veda 10:82)

 

 

Also read that He is portion of Agni (Lord of Consecration), He is portion of Indra (Lord of Visnu).

 

 

III. iv. 3. 9.

a Thou art the portion of Agni, the overlordship of consecration, the holy power saved, the threefold Stoma.

b Thou art the portion of Indra, the overlordship of Visnu, the lordly power saved, the fifteenfold Stoma.

 

 

What makes you think these verses are about Rudra Deva ?

 

These verses are about the sacrifice itself. Through Veda Yajnas(Visnu and devatas) become controlled. That is what it says. This is through pure devtion and sacrifcies mentioned in Vedas.

 

 

IV. iv. 4. 9.

(Thou art) Prajapati in mind, when come to the Soma; --------; Çipivista when put in place; --------; Visnu when being taken down; ------------

 

 

Some correction. It is not "Çipivista when put in place" but "Aditi when put in place". This is accoring to Taittiriya Samhita. Which one did you refer to or do you not know the different samhitas?

 

Another coorection is that these verses again refer to the sacrifice itself. This same verse also mentions that "thou art Rudra when offered". Nothing mentioned about your concocted philosophy.

[Guest guest]

 

Please read the verses that are supposed to be claiming that Christ should have been a military leader and married with loin born children.

 

Isaiah 2:3 - And many nations shall go, and they shall say, "Come, let us go up to the L-rd's mount, to the House of the G-d of Jacob, and let Him teach us of His ways, and we will go in His paths;" for out of Zion shall the Torah come forth, and the Word of the L-rd from Jerusalem.

 

Ezekiel 46:16-17 – (16) Thus says the L-rd G-d: "If the Prince gives a gift to any of his sons, it is his inheritance to remain in their possession; it is their property by inheritance. (17) But if he gives a gift of his inheritance to one of his servants, then it shall be his [the servant's] until the year of liberty, and then it returns to the Prince; only to his sons shall his inheritance belong.

 

 

No where you will find such. I am a Siva bhakta and I find these attempts childish.

 

 

I find it amusing that yo think you know old testament better than all the Jewish Rabbis. This is what christians claim and If I wnat to learn what OT teaches then I will go to a Jewish Rabbi and not you.

[Guest guest]

 

It is not "Çipivista when put in place" but "Aditi when put in place". This is accoring to Taittiriya Samhita.

 

 

Correction in my post. Cipivishta and Aditi, both are mentioned.

[Guest guest]

Jesus never claimed that he was God.When he said "I am my father are one" it was in the context that both have the same mindset.When he said "if you know me you know my father" it means that if you understand his teaching you know god the father.

 

he never claimed that he was God.He was a devout vaishnavite.

[Guest guest]

Well someone claimed what is given below.

 

 

********Therefore the sruti implies that no other devata(including Siva) can claim such.*************

 

 

And I cited:

 

IV. iv. 5. 5.

 

a Homage to Bhava and to Rudra.

b -----

e Homage to him of a thousand eyes, and to him of a hundred bows.

f Homage to him who haunteth the mountains, and to Çipivista.

 

 

 

*********What makes you think these verses are about Rudra Deva ?************

 

 

 

And by the way do not you know that Agni Deva is mild form of Rudra? Or you want citations. All forms -- including yours, are HIS. Whatever name you prefer of HIM.

 

 

Om

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

*********I find it amusing that yo think you know old testament better than all the Jewish Rabbis. This is what christians claim and If I wnat to learn what OT teaches then I will go to a Jewish Rabbi and not you. *************

 

Believe me, I myself find myself not only amusing but also awkward.

 

But can't you do better? Just read the verses and be objective for the time being.

 

 

Do the verses support the claim that Jesus should have had loin born children and He should have been a military leader?

 

Om Namah Sivayya

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

P-v, I do not want to argue and least with you.

 

Just contemplate on "I am that I am" of Bible and "You art That" or "Soham" of Vedas.

[Guest guest]

******thou art Rudra when offered***********

 

So, to whom the sacrifices are being offered?

[Guest guest]

 

And by the way do not you know that Agni Deva is mild form of Rudra? Or you want citations. All forms -- including yours, are HIS. Whatever name you prefer of HIM. Om

 

 

Agni Deva is different being, and Rudra Deva is a different being. There is no mild or strong form of Rudra. This has no basis on sruti. All this is your concocted imagination.

[Guest guest]

 

Believe me, I myself find myself not only amusing but also awkward.

 

But can't you do better? Just read the verses and be objective for the time being.

 

 

Do the verses support the claim that Jesus should have had loin born children and He should have been a military leader?

 

Om Namah Sivayya

 

 

As I said before, I would learn it from a Rabbi, not you. Besodes do you know Hebrew well. For all you I know the verse(s) may be translated wrong, out of context and twisted to mean something else.

 

The fact remains that jesus failed utterly to bring world peace, through military or otherwise, throughout the world as per the OT prophecy. This is a necessary requirement for person to be THE MESSIAH.

[Guest guest]

 

******thou art Rudra when offered***********

 

So, to whom the sacrifices are being offered?

 

 

In any sacrifice(Yajnas), all devatas(Including Rudra Deva) have their portions of offerings. That is why we have different Veda mantras chanted. In the end of sacrifice, after all Devatas are offered, we have what is called Poornahuti. In this stage, whatever is left is offered in entirity to Rudra Deva. Rudra Deva always is offered at this stage only. No sacrifice is complete without this and one will not get the benefit without poornahuti.

 

This is external meaning. The higher meaning is that the offerings are made to the Paramatma(Visnu) within every Devata. Just like Krishna satisfied Durvasa muni by taking a grain from akshaya patra of Pandavas, so are all these Devatas satisfied completely when one offers everything to Visnu within Devatas(Includes Rudra). One may get material benefits of the sacrifice without this knowledge, but not the ultimate purpose ie Liberation.

[Guest guest]

<<Just like Krishna satisfied Durvasa muni by taking a grain from akshaya patra of Pandavas, so are all these Devatas satisfied completely when one offers everything to Visnu within Devatas(Includes Rudra>>

 

So why do we need to have seperate mantras for different devadatas, if just offering to vishnu satisfies every devata, y chant each mantra for another devata. Have one mantra and sacrifice it to vishnu as all others will be satisfied by this .

 

[Guest guest]

Are the verses written in Hebrew?

 

 

*********For all you I know the verse(s) may be translated wrong, out of context and twisted to mean something else. *******************

 

Sir, you only cited them.

 

[Guest guest]

there's separate mantras because vishnu/krsna in the gita says that when one is really devotee of Him, very often he takes away everything to increase his attachement to Him..

 

so if you want money, health and othe material advantages it is more advisable to worship some devata, not directly the supreme

 

(that's happens in every religion, if you do not want the liberation or the devotion but something else you do not ask to god but to some subordinate.. a devata, a saint..)

 

but devatas are nothing without the supreme because they receive their powers to satisfy their devotees by Him, not by themselves

[Guest guest]

<<vishnu/krsna in the gita says that when one is really devotee of Him, very often he takes away everything to increase his attachement to Him..>>

 

where does he say so in gita, which chapter which verse ?

 

[Guest guest]

**********Agni Deva is different being, and Rudra Deva is a different being. There is no mild or strong form of Rudra. -------- All this is your concocted imagination. ********

 

 

Concocted imagination? Whose?

 

Yajur Veda v. 7. 3.

-------

The fire is Rudra; now two are his bodies, the dread the one, the auspicious the other; -------

 

Imagination? Eh? Please read more.

 

v. 4. 3.

 

The fire is Rudra; he is born then when he is completely piled up; ----------

 

v. 4. 10.

 

The fire is Rudra, and it is as if one stirs up a sleeping lion.

 

 

 

v. 5. 7.

 

The fire is Rudra, his are three missiles, one that comes straight on, one that strikes transversely, and one that follows up.

 

v. 5. 9.

 

a O Agni, the ocean, thy arrow called the young, with it be gentle

to us;

------

i The Rudra in the fire, in the waters, in the plants, the Rudra that hath entered all beings, to that Rudra be homage.

 

 

i. 8. 6.

------

d Rudra alone yieldeth to no second.

e The mole is thy beast, O Rudra; rejoice in it.

 

 

Satisfied? No? Read more.

 

 

 

 

************The higher meaning is that the offerings are made to the Paramatma(Visnu) within every Devata. *****************

 

 

 

Your explanation of a higher meaning will not make it true.

 

 

 

Yajur Veda: iv. 5. 9.

 

 

a ----------.

p Homage to you, sparkling soul of the gods

 

 

 

Well, read on more.

 

Rig Veda

 

Book 10 HYMN XCII. Visvedevas.

 

9 With humble adoration show this day your song of praise to mighty Rudra, Ruler of the brave: With whom, the Eager Ones, going their ordered course, he comes from heaven Self-bright, auspicious, strong to guard.

 

 

 

11 For these songs, the Earth and Heaven with their abundant seed, four-bodied Narasmsa, Yama, Aditi, God Tvastar Wealth-bestower, the Rbhuksanas, Rodasi, Maruts, Visnu, claim and merit praise.

 

 

 

Note: All else --- Narasmsa, Yama, Aditi, God Tvastar Wealth-bestower, the Rbhuksanas, Rodasi, Maruts, Visnu ----claim and merit praise on account of Him alone.

 

 

 

That is the truth -- the Bhagas do not give praise where it is due. they know only the visible -- the Adityas. There sacrifices are destroyed.

[Guest guest]

 

Rig Veda Book 6 HYMN XIII. Indra.

 

1. INDRA, when Soma juices flow, makes his mind pure and meet for lauds. He gains the power that brings success, for great is he.

 

20 That mind of Rudra, fresh and strong, moves conscious in the ancient ways, With reference whereto the wise have ordered this.

 

 

Who is Indra?

 

 

Rig Veda Book 8 HYMN XII. Indra.

 

27 When Visnu, through thine energy, strode wide those three great steps of his, Then thy two beautiful Bay Steeds carried thee on.

 

 

 

Note: Visnu through Indra’s energy took wide strides and formed the quarters.

 

 

Rig Veda Book 8 HYMN XV. Indra.

 

 

9 Visnu, Varuna, Mitra sing thy praise: In thee the Maruts' company have great delight.

 

 

Note: Visnu sings Indra’s praise

 

 

Book 10 HYMN CXTII. Indra.

 

 

2 This majesty of his, Visnu extols and lauds, making the stalk that gives the meath flow forth with might

 

 

Note: Visnu extols and lauds majesty of Indra

 

 

 

Visnu lauds Indra. Visnu extols Indra. : Visnu sings Indra’s praise.

 

 

Rig Veda 7.46.2

 

To Rudra bring these songs, whose bow is firm and strong, the self-dependent God with swiftly-flying shafts, The Wise, the Conqueror whom none may overcome, armed with sharp-pointed weapons: may he hear our call.

 

He through his lordship thinks on beings of the earth, on heavenly beings through his high imperial sway.

 

 

Note: the self-dependent God. He is the conqueror whom none may overcome. Why?

 

Yajur Veda i. 8. 6.

a -------

d Rudra alone yieldeth to no second.

 

 

Yajur Veda: iv. 5. 9.

 

a ----------.

p Homage to you, sparkling hearts of the gods

 

 

 

Book 10 HYMN XCII. Visvedevas.

 

9 With humble adoration show this day your song of praise to mighty Rudra, Ruler of the brave: With whom, the Eager Ones, going their ordered course, he comes from heaven Self-bright, auspicious, strong to guard.

 

 

 

11 For these songs, the Earth and Heaven with their abundant seed, four-bodied Narasmsa, Yama, Aditi, God Tvastar Wealth-bestower, the Rbhuksanas, Rodasi, Maruts, Visnu, claim and merit praise.

 

 

 

 

Note: All else --- Narasmsa, Yama, Aditi, God Tvastar Wealth-bestower, the Rbhuksanas, Rodasi, Maruts, Visnu ---- claim and merit praise on account of Him alone.

 

 

Sarveshvara

 

SU III, 3-4

i) 3. On all sides eye, on all sides face,

on all sides arms, on all sides feet,

he, God, the One, creates heaven and earth,

forging them together with arms and wings.

 

4. He who is source and origin of the Gods,

the Lord of all, Rudra, the mighty sage,

who produced in ancient days the Golden Germ--

may he endow us with purity of mind!

 

 

Subordination?

 

 

Yajur Veda i. 8. 6.

a -------

d Rudra alone yieldeth to no second.

 

[Guest guest]

"Just contemplate on "I am that I am" of Bible and "You art That" or "Soham" of Vedas. "

 

I also contemplate "I pray god to put a curse on those who dont accept him" from corinthians and also "whichever diety you worship i give favours to you through that deity" from geetha

[Guest guest]

"Subordination ?"

 

yes .. subordination...

 

god is one and devatas are subordinated

[Guest guest]

"The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second"

 

 

When He is one without a second, what and who he will subordinate?

 

Subordination is a mental concept.

[Guest guest]

P-V your Hmm-- is nice.

 

*******I also contemplate "I pray god to put a curse on those who dont accept him" from corinthians and also "whichever diety you worship i give favours to you through that deity" from geetha **************

 

Why don't you just contemplate on "whichever diety you worship i give favours to you through that deity" and let others be.

 

you may or may not like the suggestion.

 

 

Lord indeed has lauded "equal vision" in Gita.

[Guest guest]

"Why don't you just contemplate on "whichever diety you worship i give favours to you through that deity" and let others be."

 

becaue they come to our homes and schools and insult my religion in public.

[Guest guest]

********* becaue they come to our homes and schools and insult my religion in public ******************

 

 

It is definitely not just. But do you really believe that true spiritualists do that?

 

True spiritualists abide by Lord's will and do not try to influence or seduce gullible people -- who are mostly poor also, with money and other things.

 

But is it just to judge Jeshua, based on doings of some so-called followers?

 

 

You know, I will tell you a small incidence. I was travelling and I was reading something wherein Lord was instructing sage Vashista. A foreigner sitting next to me asked "Who is the Lord?" I said "Lord is Shiva". He asked "Jeshua?". And I said "Yes, Shiva". And He said "Yes, Jeshua".

 

 

 

Hope I do not upset you. I like your posts.

[Guest guest]

oneness and variety