Caste/racial differences, Aryan/Dravidians blah blah

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone,

 

Sorry if this topic has already been discussed. I was born into Hinduism, but didn't have much interest into learning about it until awhile ago. I would appreciate it if you could help me with something, or share your views.

 

Don't ask why, but I stumbled across a White Nationalist forum (Stormfront.org), which basically consists of white people that are mainly concerned with the preservation of their race. They are rigidly supportive of segregation. Some people might call them White Supremacists, but they don't believe in any violence towards non-whites of any sort.

 

There has been a lot of talk on that forum about upper caste Hindus having more white blood and North Indians having more Caucasian ancestry, and the so-called lower castes having more "australoid or Eastern Asian ancestry." Some people claim that Indians are a mixture of Caucasian and Australian Aborigine ancestry, while others claim that they are a mixture of Caucasian and Oriental ancestry (while the upper castes are said to have naturally more white blood in them).

 

I found this journal article/study, which was posted on that forum, claiming that.

 

http://www.utah.edu/unews/releases/...angenetics.html

 

 

The notion of Southern Indians being more "negroid like" and "lower caste", or being a completely different race than that of Northern Indians seems to dominate these people's minds. Actually, some black people even seem to think that South Indians are Africans, or "black people with nice hair and noses." Even some of my white acquaintances automatically assume that light Indians=North Indians, darker Indians=South Indians. Sadly enough, some North Indians are also brain-washed into thinking that South Indians are all jet black and unnattractive.......Take a look at Bollywood, that's not true.

 

This is a white nationalist man's claim of what the "typical" Southern Indian looks like.

 

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=29967&stc=1&thumb=1

 

 

Speaking soley from personal experiences and what I have seen within the Indian community, I have seen light-skinned South Indians, sharp featured South Indians, dark skinned brahmins, blunt featured North Indians, sharp-featured Sudras.........the list goes on! I also feel that the whole concept of caste correlating with skin color and facial features is stupid. Go to a matrimonial site and try to guess who's what solely based on skin color, or facial structure. It's not that easy. Anybody agree with me?

 

 

What's even more ridiculous is that some of these WN's (white nationalists) claim that Aishwarya Rai is one of the few, pure Indo-Aryan women left. Well, hate to break it to you, but she's South Indian. What happened to the South Indians being more "australoid", huh? :rolls eyes:

 

 

I have shared my views on that forum and have even posted various pics of both upper-caste/lower-caste Indians, South Indians and North Indians just to show that there aren't any blatantly huge differences, but people act like I'm naive and that I don't know what we're talking about.

 

They claim that the Rig Veda has a lot of mention about the "blonde-haired, light-eyed warriors," their dark-skinned enemies, etc. You have to forgive me, because I haven't been able to thoroughly read the Rig Veda. That's why I'm here to get your views on this. These people have claimed that they have extensively studied the racial origins of Indians and the Hindu scriptures.

 

 

 

Even though I'm not an expert on Hinduism, I was taught by other Hindus that Hinduism is a peaceful way of life that preaches equality and seeing God in every living thing. These people claim that Hinduism is all about preserving racial purity, particularly "white purity."

 

 

What's even more pathetic is that there are a few Hindu nationalists that post on that site, and they agree with what the White Nationalists have to say.

 

This man told me that Hinduism clearly banned mixed marriages, and that inter-caste relationships is the equivalent of an Indian marrying an African.

 

Another Indian man said that there should be separate nations for light-skinned and dark-skinned Indians.

 

A Brahmin woman on there thinks that she has the right to call herself a "European and not related to other Indians," just because those WN's think that Brahmins are the purest out of all the castes.

 

 

I know this is getting too long.....but please share what you think about this. Do you think that my views are naive, do you agree with what the WN's say, even when they have posted genetic studies helping their claim? BTW, do you any of you feel that the entire concept of caste should be dismissed from Hinduism?

[Guest guest]

those racists are ignorant, and you shouldn't concern yourself with them.

 

They'll have to pay back their own bad karma, why involve yourselves with them? Don't even worry about white/black indians, there may be a bit of truth to it, but there's just as much falsehood as there is truth to it.

 

In fact, there is no definite proof other than genetics to indicate anything of the sort, and it's not like Hinduism is actually founded by white invaders. Even if there WERE white invaders, Hinduism came from the original inhabitants of India, and spread to the invaders. Even that's a controversial issue as there has been as much evidence to dispute any such invasion as there has been evidence to suggest some sort of invasion.

 

The caste system, as far as I'm concerned is about doing your duty in life before you're ready to transcend this reality and reach Brahman.

 

Don't concern yourself with moronic white nationalists, they're set in their ways and adhere to one viewpoint alone: anything that supports their view that white people are the best.

 

You can't use logic with them, so no need to even try.

[maadhav]

 

first knwo what hinduism is.

this link will help.

 

http://www.geocities.com/shvyaas/Intro-SD.html

 

[Guest guest]

The link you posted above was helpful, but I actually already knew a lot of the stuff that was stated there.

 

 

Here's the thing: All the sources I have gathered about Hinduism say completely different things and often contradict each other.

 

 

I remember learning in my highschool and college religion classes that the Hindu scriptures literally say that "Dalits" are the equivalent of an animal. I have read magazines and scholarly journals that say that caste is something you're born into, and the Hindu religion makes you a "slave" from the day you were born.

 

Then, there are numerous geocities websites that say the exact opposite about Hinduism, and even say that caste was originally determined by one's qualities/performance and actions.

 

 

 

I know I'm going to sound kind of stupid, but sometimes I just don't know what to believe. Even Hindus themselves say the same thing what these white men are writing.

 

Hell, just look at what that other guy posted about the Dalits, and look how the Hindus are treating them. Look how some Hindus are treating their wives and daughters. I was pretty disgusted to read about a Hindu male priest that encouraged and praised "satis."

 

 

 

I tried talking to my mom about the caste system, and she even said that it's a big part of the Hindu religion, and that God purposely made the Brahmins and Kshatriyas "higher." The Sudras were meant to be "lower" people.

 

 

I tried sharing with her some of the stuff that I read. For instance, how caste was basically related to occupation and how the four classes were supposed to work together to create harmony. I told her how I found some Hindu verses online that dispute the concept of today's caste system.

 

" "The humble sages, by virtue of true knowledge, see with equal vision a learned and gentle Brahman, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater."

 

 

 

She told me that I didn't know what I was talking about ,and how she was raised by so many Hindus in India that the caste system is just a rank order thing, and that's what the Hindu scriptures teach. It's not just her who feels that way. A lot of aunties, uncles, and older relatives feel the same way. I'm sure if I share with these people some of the websites disputing the caste system, they would all laugh at me and tell me that I was dumb.

 

Then again, she has never read the Hindu scriptures. I noticed a lot of Indians just go by whatever people tell them.

 

Unfortunately, she comes from a Rajput family that think that they are being "good Hindus" to not allow "lower-castes " and "Muslims" to enter the house. They think that a woman is being a "good Hindu" if she doesn't divorce her abusive and cheating husband. If she does, she's a "bad Hindu." However, it's perfectly alright for a Hindu man to divorce his wife and remarry whoever he wants.

 

 

 

I really want to get my hands on the scriptures, and see if what all these people are fussing about is true. Are there any online versions of the Bhagavad Gita, or the Rig Veda? I'm a college student, so I'm hoping I can spend more time reading this stuff.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

http://e-vedas.com/elib.htm

 

The above website has many free books about our vaishnava culture. Very basic books giving simple understanding to progress in the right direction. Hope this helps.

[Guest guest]

http://www.asitis.com/

 

[Guest guest]

because they were raised in ignorance.

 

Since they don't read the scriptures, why bother with what they think?

 

They don't know, and they can't claim to know. What they're professing are racist comments, and you should enlighten them. True spirituality goes beyond color, caste, or whatever.

 

It's the soul that matters, not the body.

 

And Hinduism has professed this from the beginning.

 

However, I do see the caste system as being a burden that needs to be eradicated from Hinduism. And I do not think you should listen to your family about what Hinduism is rather than a guru. They are nothing compared to a guru. They have no authority, they have not seen God, they have not studied the scriptures. So why even take their opinions seriously?

 

I do have the opinion that the caste system was a noble thing once, but it is something that devolved into this racist expression. Yes, Hindus do now see the caste system as divisive due to skin color essentially. But that is only because of Kali Yuga, and not its original purpose.

 

There is more ignorance out there even with Hindus about their own religion.

 

There are many Hindu yogis who reject the caste system, yet they are Hindu. So what does that tell you? It should tell you Hinduism and caste system do not need each other and that the caste system is a social institution that has outlived any usefulness it may have served in the past. Sati is a social instituion as well and not integral to Hinduism.