Happy life 2 -- For Ganeshprasad ji

[Guest guest]

 

Om Namah Sivayya

 

 

There is bliss. The one I that is Brahman, that is Self, and that is sarvesvara exists in three states like water exists as liquid, solid and gas. In the first state -- the body self--- I, me (the body), mine, and they (all others including God) exist. In this state believers recite mantra to an outside God who is different from I. There is enjoyment to be had here followed by intense pain. So I by self effort and grace (that is ever present) goes to the second state: the state of two birds, the manas or the soul as the small i and the paramatma -- the antaryami, the indweller controller. Here small i -- the manas, prays to the real I to take control since the small i is found barely adequate to cope. In this state Om Namah Sivayya has another meaning. The soul first invokes OM as the real I and then prostrates to it naming it Sivayya. There is bliss here but not absolute.

 

 

Then suddenly, while reciting Om Namah Sivayya,the jnana takes hold of the soul i (manas), that whom the manas is praying to? The manas has only descended from the antaryami, how can it be a second entity capable of praying to antaryami as different? Gradually Om Namah Sivayya takes up another meaning. Sivayya leads the soul through water, fire, air, and ether to beyond. And the manas becomes That.

 

That is happy life.

 

 

There is bliss but not yet. There is anticipation.

 

 

Atma Upanishad

 

I-1. Now Angirah: The Spirit, manifests Itself, in three ways: the self, the inner Self and the supreme Self.

 

I-2. There are the organs – the skin, inner and outer: flesh, hair, the thumb, the fingers, the backbone, the nails, the ankles, the stomach, the navel, the penis, the hip, the thighs, the cheeks, the ears, the brows, the forehead, the hands, the flanks, the head and the eyes; these are born and these die; so they constitute the self.

 

I-3. Next this inner self is (indicated by the elements) earth, water, fire, air, ether, desire, aversion, pleasure, pain, desire, delusion, doubts, etc., and memory, (marked by) the high pitch and accentlessness, short, long and prolate (vowel sounds), the hearer, smeller, taster, leader, agent and self of knowledge vis-à-vis stumbling, shouting, enjoying, dancing, singing and playing on musical instruments. He is the ancient spirit that distinguishes between Nyaya, Mimamsa and the institutes of law and the specific object of listening, smelling and grasping. He is the inner Self.

 

I-4. Next the supreme Self, the imperishable, He is to meditated on with (the help of) the Yogic steps, breath control, withdrawal (of sense organs), fixation (of mind), contemplation and concentration, He is to be inferred by the thinkers on the Self as like unto the seed of the Banyan tree or a grain of millet or a hundredth part of a split hair. (Thus) is He won and not known. He is not born, does not die, does not dry, is not wetted, not burnt, does not tremble, is not split, does not sweat. He is beyond the gunas, is spectator, is pure, partless, alone, subtle, owning naught, blemishless, immutable, devoid of sound, touch, colour, taste, smell, is indubitable, non-grasping, omnipresent. He is unthinkable and invisible. He purifies the impure, the unhallowed. He acts not. He is not subject to empirical existence.

 

 

 

II-1. The good named the Atman is pure, one and non-dual always, in the form of Brahman. Brahman alone shines forth.

 

 

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II-19-20. By fate is the body borne into contexts of experiences at appropriate times. (On the contrary) he who, giving up all migrations, both knowledge and unknowable, stays as the pure unqualified Self, is himself the manifest Shiva. He is the best of all Brahman-Knowers. In life itself the foremost Brahman-Knower is the ever free, he has accomplished his End.

 

II-21. All adjuncts having perished, being Brahman he is assimilated to the non-dual Brahman, like a man who, with (appropriate) apparels, is an actor and without them (resumes his natural state),

 

II-22(a). In the same way the best of Brahman-Knowers is always Brahman alone and none else.

 

II-22(b)-23. Just as space becomes space itself when the (enclosing) pot perishes, so, when particular cognitions are dissolved, the Brahman-Knower himself becomes nothing but Brahman, as milk poured into milk, oil into oil, and water into water become (milk, oil and water).

 

II-24(a). Just as, combined, they become one, so does the Atman-knowing sage in the Atman.

 

 

 

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Katha Upanishad

 

 

2-I-15. As pure water poured into pure water remains the same only, so does the Self of the thinker who knows thus become, O Gautama.

 

 

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2-II-7. Some jivas enter the womb for assuming bodies; others go into the unmoving, in accordance with their karma and with their knowledge.

 

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2-II-9. Just as fire, though one, having entered the world, assumes a separate form in respect of every form, so does the in-dwelling Self of all beings, though one, assume a form in respect of every form, and is outside it.

 

2-II-10. Just as wind, though one, having entered the world, assumes a separate form in respect of each form, so does the in-dwelling Self of all beings, though one, assumes a form in respect of every form and is outside it.

 

2-II-11. Just as the sun, which is the eye of the entire world, is not tainted by the external impurities seen by the eyes, so also, the in-dwelling Self of all beings, though one, is not tainted by the sorrows of the world, It being external.

 

2-II-12. Eternal happiness belongs to the intelligent – not to others – who realize in their hearts Him who is one, the controller and the in-dwelling Self of all beings, and who makes the one form manifold.

 

2-II-13. Whoso among the intelligent realize the Self in the (inner space of the) heart as the eternal among the ephemeral, the consciousness among the conscious, who, though one, dispenses the desired objects to many, to them belongs eternal peace, not to others.

 

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2-III-17. Purusha of the size of a thumb, the inner Self, is ever seated in the heart of all living beings. One should, with steadiness, separate Him from one’s own body as stalk from the Munja grass. One should know Him as pure and immortal; one should know Him as pure and immortal.

 

 

 

 

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Mundaka Upanishad

 

 

 

 

 

I-ii-10: The deluded fools, believing the rites inculcated by the Vedas and the Smritis to be the highest, do not understand the other thing (that leads to) liberation. They, having enjoyed (the fruits of actions) in the abode of pleasure on the heights of heaven, enter this world or an inferior one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

III-i-1: Two birds that are ever associated and have similar names, cling to the same tree. Of these, one eats the fruit of divergent tastes, and the other looks on without eating.

 

III-i-2: On the same tree, the individual soul remains drowned (i.e. stuck), as it were; and so it moans, being worried by its impotence. When it sees thus the other, the adored Lord, and His glory, then it becomes liberated from sorrow.

 

III-i-3: When the seer sees the Purusha – the golden-hued, creator, lord, and the source of the inferior Brahman – then the illumined one completely shakes off both merit and demerit, becomes taintless, and attains absolute equality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

III-ii-6: Those to whom the entity presented by the Vedantic knowledge has become fully ascertained, who are assiduous and have become pure in mind through the Yoga of monasticism – all of them, at the supreme moment of final departure, become identified with the supreme Immortality in the worlds that are Brahman, and they become freed on every side.

 

III-ii-7: To their sources repair the fifteen constituents (of the body) and to their respective gods go all the gods (of the senses). The karmas and the soul appearing like the intellect, all become unified with the supreme Undecaying.

 

III-ii-8: As rivers, flowing down, become indistinguishable on reaching the sea by giving up their names and forms, so also the illumined soul, having become freed from name and form, reaches the self-effulgent Purusha that is higher than the highest (Maya).

 

III-ii-9: Anyone who knows that supreme Brahman becomes Brahman indeed. In his line is not born anyone who does not know Brahman. He overcomes grief, and rises above aberrations; and becoming freed from the knots of the heart, he attains immortality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Om Namah Sivayya

 

 

 

 

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

om namah shivya Atanu

 

Thank you, for targeting me, on this day many moons ago(I lost count now) I came into this world, so it is kind of nice blessing from you.

I do not know much but what I do know is my happiness lies in reconnecting my relation with the lord

As pushpadant sings

 

7.There are different paths of realization as enjoined by the three Vedas, Samkhya, Yoga and Pasupata doctrine and Vaishnava Sastras. Persons following different paths - straight or crooked according as they consider that this path is best or that one is proper due to the difference in temperaments, reach Thee alone just as rivers enter the ocean.

 

 

2.Thy greatness is beyond the reach of mind and speech. Who will praise That which even the Vedas describe with trepidation by the method of 'not this,not this' ? - how many qualities does That possess ? and can be perceived by whom ? Yet to the form taken later, whose mind and speech do not turn ?

 

I will try follow dharma as best I can, chant his glories and names for everything else is academic.

 

Jai Bhole, Jai SitaRam

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

Impressive ! Effective ! Really . . . I am obtaining knowledge.

Write more . . . . . . . . . . .

 

[Guest guest]

 

 

This is an excellent explanation. I just closed my eyes and thought about what you have said. It is great and surely unbiased.

 

Indeed Om Namah Shivaya is the mantra for us to reach Niguna Brahman from Saguna Brahman.

 

Keep posting such things. My whole hearted thanks to you.

[Guest guest]

 

If we consider the 3 paths: Dwaita, Vishistadvaita and Advaita, they are like 3 different stages.

 

The first stage is Dwaita where the individual feels he is entirely different God. As he attains some knowledge, he starts feeling that he is part of God which is Vishistadvaita. Finally, as he matures more and more, he experiences the supreme state i.e. he sees no difference between him and God which is Advaita.

 

Advaita is a state where we identify with Atman. Hence there is no difference between God and Individual. But in other two states, we identify ourselves with body, senses and mind. So, it is natural that we don't feel individuals are supreme.

 

For understanding Vishistadvita and Dwaita, we have to learn.

For experiencing Advaita, we have to unlearn.

 

When we are in deep sleep state, we are indeed in Advaita state. There is no duality. In that state, there is no God separate from us, there is no seeking of God, there are no dualities like pain and pleasure, right and wrong, good and bad, high and low. It is the state, where all the duality has ceased. There is only one and it is all.

 

The challenge for us is to reach that state when we are awake. The is self-realization or liberation. Surely, this stage cannot be attained by knowledge. It can only be experienced.

[Guest guest]

a true spiritual realization is permanent.. one never come back.. or he's still not pure,not realized.

 

so... if you lose your individuality merging in brahman you cannot do it without phisically die and you do not come back to say it to us

 

so everyone who has experienced advaita and comes to us to explain he's a cheater

 

(advaita is not complete... because in transcendence there's also transcendental variety and individuality...

 

dvaita is not complete because we are not different by god

 

so you have to use the definitions together

 

we are different by god and non different simultaneously,

 

because we are god, nothing's outside god.. but god is also a different individual because he cannot miss the possibility to relationate and love

 

and for relationships and love you need union yes.. but union of two different subjects because love is generated by differences

 

again.. united and separated..simultaneously)

[Guest guest]

A very meaningful explanation of the 3 paths or rather 3 stages of human journey.

 

I can understand that Advaita is the absolute standpoint. Rest are relative. Though they can't be considered false, they are lower truths whereas Advaita is the absolute truth.

[Guest guest]

 

 

You have got it wrong. Nobody ever claims he has reached Advaita state after waking up from the sleep. I agree, if such a claim is done, then such a person is really a cheat.

 

But the fact is, deep sleep state is not attained consiously. But a person who while in the waking reaches the state of deep sleep will never take birth again. To him, the physical world and dream world are not true. He is liberated. He doesn't any duality at all.

 

Probably you will not agree with this. I have found such resistance with Vishsistadvaitins in the past.

 

Vishistadvaitins generally consider the world as Truth. That is the reason they feel individuals are finite. But the Advaitins consider the world as Maya, something apparent, mind-born. So, the discussions could go on and on.

 

But what I wish to convey is, there can never be any sort of wanting in the state of Moksha. Even the wanting of God. If, after attaining Moksha, the individual has a want for God, then it is not Moksha at all. It is no different from the cycles of birth and death. Not worth attaining at all.

 

Ultimately every wave in the ocean cannot keep feeling that they are only the finite waves with beginning and end. Each wave has to drop the individual feeling and feel that it is the ocean. Then immediately duality subsides. There is one and it is all.

 

Dwaita is like salt and water separate.

Vishistadvaita is like a salt in water but not yet solved.

Advaita is like a salt mixed in water. You cannot say this is salt and that is water. Both are inseparable.

 

[Guest guest]

Probably you will not agree with this. I have found such resistance with Vishsistadvaitins in the past.

--the problem is not my identification.. the problem is that i do not believe blindly.. if it is a problem

 

Vishistadvaitins generally consider the world as Truth. That is the reason they feel individuals are finite. But the Advaitins consider the world as Maya, something apparent, mind-born.

--my point is that, illusion or not, the absolute cannot miss what there is in abbundance in the matter... individuality and relationships. No one can dream something bigger of reality, our mind cannot create anything. So god cannot have less features of maya.

So there's unity and diversity, oneness and variety, no pain but relationships and love..

 

But what I wish to convey is, there can never be any sort of wanting in the state of Moksha. Even the wanting of God.

--that's right under the conditionated point of view. Who is liberated, or god who is eternally liberated have no egoistic exchanges or desires. But they have them. Spiritual is the source of matter, so what is in the matter is there also in the spirit but in a sat, cita, ananda form.

 

If, after attaining Moksha, the individual has a want for God

--moksa is liberation from the blindness of matter. When i am no more blinded i see god.. simple. Andif god has made him visible to me i am liberated. God and darkness are not working together

 

Advaita is like a salt mixed in water. You cannot say this is salt and that is water. Both are inseparable.

--that's in conditionated state,when we are not CIT. In our human condition we cannot understand how to see something who is oneness and variety simultaneously.

In liberated state we can see water and salt mixed and simultaneously water and salt separated. Like in a loving couple... you can see that they are one thing, and you can see that they are also different,, because they seek pleasure and they find happiness in their difference

[Guest guest]

 

 

You say that mind cannot create anything. Then how are dreams caused? Who is creating the space, time and personalities in your dream?

 

One more question. When you dream, the experiences in it look so real (as long as you dream). But do you agree that they are real?

 

 

[Guest guest]

dreams are simple mixing of reality elements or things that we have read or seen in movies, tv and so on... i can see some gold, i can see a mountain, and i can dream a golden mountain

 

dream experiences are not real but there's a certain percentage of reality given by the fact that they use elements from reality.

If i see you today and we go eating together somewhere, then i see in tv some movie when people fly,it is possible that sleeping i see you and me flying together.. so there's reality elements and fantasy elements.

Thats reflects the nature of matter.. matter is real because his source is the spirit,,, but matter is also unreal because his combinations, mixing of elements are unstable and inpermanent

[Guest guest]

 

Then how "real" is this world after death?

[Guest guest]

 

 

....... and how "real" is it before birth?

[Guest guest]

are you attempting to demonstrate that reality can be unreal?

what's the use of it?

are you coherent in your everyday behaviour with this philosophy?

[Guest guest]

Please, it becomes confusing if so many guests argue. Who is saying what and against whose reply? I request all to assume good names, if using registered name is not ok.

 

Why use guest name all the time -- because of fear of attack, ridicule etc.?

 

Please, this my earnest request.

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

 

Please answer my question in a direct way? Don't start some other questions and change the topic.

 

If dreams can be real while experiencing and become unreal after you come out of the dream state then so too is this world. It looks real between birth and death. Beyond that, is it real?

 

 

[Guest guest]

Om Nama Shivayya,

 

You are right. People should identify names.

Always mystification, who is from which question

or answer ? Everybody knows, the name is an

Identification of this body. And here, everybody

is not using his / her real name. Just a sign. So

kindly use a sign / hoax name. Thanks you all.

 

[Guest guest]

You wrote,

 

If dreams can be real while experiencing and become unreal after you come out of the dream state then so too is this world. It looks real between birth and death. Beyond that, is it real?

 

Beyond that, it is not real. Awaken from the dream. Even although, these kinds of dream and awaken-ness can be realize between birth and death, if the devotee reaches such a realm within his/her lifetime. I think, sages say it SAMADHI. Out of body experience.

 

The mind and its coordinators make this illusionary world and dreams. We do not make this physical world surrounding us in our mother s womb. We make it day after day, after incarnation. It is effects of MAYA, which propel us from the actual reality to illusion.

 

[Guest guest]

 

Out of body experience is not samadhi. During the out of body experience, mind is very much active. But it is not the same with samadhi. Samadhi is a state which is beyond mind. PURE CONSCIOUSNESS

[Guest guest]

Swaminathan jee,

 

Out of body experience is not samadhi.

 

Yes, I admit. You are right.

THANKS for the correction. Thank you very much.

 

[Guest guest]

"Please answer my question in a direct way? Don't start some other questions and change the topic.

If dreams can be real while experiencing and become unreal after you come out of the dream state then so too is this world. It looks real between birth and death. Beyond that, is it real"

 

my answer was absolutely not escaping... i repeat it in other words...

 

me and you do not live our life like it were unreal, we deal with food, money, relationships, people, right and bad, justice and injustice and we discriminate every minute. So for me the hypothesis that everything is a dream is useful only for someone who is deciding to suicide. If everything is unreal, this life is an useless pain... so both we have to kill ourselves. But i do not want to do it, so i try to live a inner life coherent with my external one..

 

another answer is that dream or not, what is created by mind cannot be a real creation because we are creatures, not creators.. so our fantasies or our realities exist somewhere else. And if there's a spiritual reality who is beyond all our dreams and our realities, this spiritual reality has to be greater and most various of what we conceive in our limited minds

[Guest guest]

**********--my point is that, illusion or not, the absolute cannot miss what there is in abbundance in the matter... individuality and relationships. No one can dream something bigger of reality, our mind cannot create anything. So god cannot have less features of maya. ***********

 

No. God has not planned a real world where plunderers, cheaters, rapists abound. Read Gopala Tapaniya again and again till you grasp the essence.

 

 

One can never understand but one can experience and Gopala Tapaniya where Durvasha explains to Gopis is one of the finest that one can read and absorb prior to experience.

[Guest guest]

"God has not planned a real world where plunderers, cheaters, rapists abound"

 

nothing is outside god's plans and project

 

[Guest guest]

 

Ok. We have to deal with food, money, injustice, etc and a whole lot of things that happen between birth and death. If that is the purpose of life, why do we require God at all?

 

Do all the people who don't have money, food, etc get them once they pray? Are all their problems solved by that?

 

Also, for what all should I pray? Should I pray for getting more money, more food? Should I pray for not losing the money that I already have? Should I pray for not getting hit by bus, train, etc? Should I pray for my mom, dad, relatives, etc? Should I pray that some boulder should not fall on my head when I walk? Should I pray that I am not affected by earthquake? Should I pray for recovery from the illness?

 

Can there be any end to the list of prayers that we have to make to deal with the life?

 

Why should I fantacise that there is some God bigger than me and pray to him endlessly for the daily problems that are never going to end?

 

Even if I agree that God exists, I can say to myself that he has been partial in creating me as a poor and some one else as rich. How can such a person help me. And not bother about him at all.

 

A correction: So for me the hypothesis that everything is a dream is useful only for someone who is deciding to suicide.

 

- It is not that only the people who commit suicide, die. Every one dies. Death is worth considering, to atleast help us in understanding the purpose of life.

[Guest guest]

 

*******************so... if you lose your individuality merging in brahman you cannot do it without phisically die and you do not come back to say it to us***********************

 

 

No, there are sages who lose body-mind sense while living. Shruti is there to prove it and sages are there to prove it. And they also come back and speak about a fourth indescribable state of oneness beyond that of waking, dreaming and sleeping. This is called Turiyatta. If this is cheating then whole of Upanishad is cheating.

 

 

 

BRIHADARANYAKA-UPANISHAD Part 1

 

FOURTH BRAHMANA.

 

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10. Verily in the beginning this was Brahman, that Brahman knew (its) Self only, saying, 'I am Brahman.' From it all this sprang. Thus, whatever Deva was awakened (so as to know Brahman), he indeed became that (Brahman); and the same with Rishis and men. The Rishi Vamadeva saw and understood it, singing, 'I was Manu (moon), I was the sun.'

 

 

 

Mandukaya Upanishad

 

He is undefinable, unthinkable, and indescribable. The only proof of his existence is union with him. The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second. This is the fourth condition of the self the most worthy of all.*******************

 

 

End of citation

 

 

 

Rishi Vamadeva says it. Yajnavalka says it. All Upanishads say this.

 

 

 

******************so everyone who has experienced advaita and comes to us to explain he's a cheater*************************

**********(advaita is not complete... because in transcendence there's also transcendental variety and individuality...**********************

 

 

So, Rishi Vamadeva – an incarnation of Shiva is a cheat? You mad man.

 

 

I ask, how do you know? Have you experienced Advaitic experience? If you have not experienced it how can you say that cheaters preach it? How can you say that achyntya beda---- etc. is beyond Advaita? If you have not experienced Advaita yourself, then how can you claim that there is something beyond Turiyatta?

 

 

Your guru has taught you to stick to something which is suitable to you but I do not think that he has given you license to call others fools, cheaters, rascal, dog etc.

 

 

I have all the posts where like a coward you call people such names in the garb of being a guest.

 

 

************** because we are god, nothing's outside god.. but god is also a different individual because he cannot miss the possibility to relationate and love

 

and for relationships and love you need union yes.. but union of two different subjects because love is generated by differences

 

again.. united and separated..simultaneously)******************************

 

 

You are naïve or you are an agent to create problem. Shruti says clearly that every one loves one’s own self more than anything. If life of your family member and you are at stake you will save your own life and give up your family members life. Br. Upanishad states that this is due to love of the self. Then further it teaches that this self is not the body mind but Lord himself who resides within everyone.

 

Don’t tell me you don’t love yourself more than anything else. To protect your name you cowardly appear as guest time and again and abuse others.

 

Contemplate.

 

It is due to nature of Sanatana dharma which teaches that what one harvests one gets back that we are tolerant since we know that Niyati is the Supreme controller above which only Lord exists. Even Lord abides by Niyati.

 

 

If you term advaitic sages as cheaters then you are abusing Vedas and Vedanta. Try doing this in another culture. You will be lynched, stoned to death or crucified.

 

But we believe that you will pay for your own karma.

 

 

As a final note: I am sure your guru has not given you license to call others fools and cheaters. If your guru has given you this license then karma goes to him.

 

OM VASUVEVAYYA NAMAH

OM NAMAH SIVAYYA