Meat Eating

[Guest guest]

"During the Vedic period (1500-500 BC), the priestly castes sacrificed animals to appease and gain boons from the gods, after which the flesh was consumed."

So were our ancestors from whom the vedas are obtained uncivilized too?

 

if you are able to make animal sacrifices like the vedic ones i give to you my authorization

 

in the ancient authorized sacrifices the animal entered in the fire and got out with renovated body and spiritual advancement

 

if you consider this like a vedic mac donald you simply have not enough informations and culture

...........

 

Eating meat does not make the rest of us any less pious or immoral or uncivilized.

 

civilization means to give the less problems possible to the living beings causing less pain possible.. picking an apple causes undoubtely infinitely less pain than cutting the troath of a calf, everyone sees it.

So civilization is to avoid violence that is done only for sense gratification. Who does not follow this rule has many problems in his spiritual research, in controlling his mind,in counteracting the fact that according the laws of nature he has to suffer for the problems that he causes to others..

 

so better to be more civilized and peaceful

 

.-----

We have a personal opinion and basis behind our non-vegetarian lifestyle too.

 

opinion is not synonim of good opinion

 

----

 

i am sorry if you are offended..but in a site like this, with people who believe and see in his very life the effect of karma law, it is very difficult to come and preach that killing animals for simple sense gratification is civilization... even if the murderers are nice in producing phone cells, computers, electric guitars or cars

 

who cares if i have my new phone cell every week, if in the next lifes i have to be repeatedly killed in the same painful way of the innocent animals that i have slaughtered and killed?

 

who will answer to my call? the butcher?

 

study deeply vedic culture..you will find great benefit

 

 

[Guest guest]

""During the Vedic period (1500-500 BC), the priestly castes sacrificed animals to appease and gain boons from the gods, after which the flesh was consumed."

So were our ancestors from whom the vedas are obtained uncivilized too?

 

if you are able to make animal sacrifices like the vedic ones i give to you my authorization

 

in the ancient authorized sacrifices the animal entered in the fire and got out with renovated body and spiritual advancement

 

if you consider this like a vedic mac donald you simply have not enough informations and culture"

...........

 

If you read my email carefully you would have noted that the sentence actually says that after the sacrifice the FLESH WAS CONSUMED. Regardless of how spiritual the ceremony and sacrifice was, the fact remains that these vedic priests CONSUMED meat. I am in no way comparing these vedic sacrifices with a macdonalds. My point is simply this - that in my reading of the scriptures, I am yet to come across a definite "thou shall not eat meat" statement. If anything, the practises of the vedic priests contradicts vegetarianism.

 

 

"Eating meat does not make the rest of us any less pious or immoral or uncivilized.

 

civilization means to give the less problems possible to the living beings causing less pain possible.. picking an apple causes undoubtely infinitely less pain than cutting the troath of a calf, everyone sees it."

 

Your definition of civilization is your own definition. With regards to causing pain, I have two points. One, that it is impossible to go through life and not cause pain to any other living organism. Even when you drink milk, the animal still experienced pain in the extracting of the milk. Your leather accessories came from the death of animals, and I can go on and on about dependance on other organims for your own subsistence. We are all connected in a food web and at one point or the other, we are going to cause pain to one another. Secondly, i think it would be double standards to say one organism experiences more pain than another. You do not feel the pain of an apple plucked from a tree because it lacks the ability to communicate. On the other hand, the pain of a larger mammal is vocalized. Just because one is capable of making sounds and the other is not does not undermine the pain of the organism that cannot make sounds. So to tell me that an apple plucked from the tree "experiences less pain" than an animal slaughtered for meat is a statement without basis.

 

Now just because i say this does not make me a raging maniac out to kill and destroy. I believe it is sad that we have to depend on other living organisms for food, but it is a sad fact of life. I will not unnecessarily kill an animal or plant simply for the pleasure of it. I will only kill the plant or animal if the need arises in terms of me gaining nourishment or fulfilling some other functional need. I simply refuse to be hypocritical and agree to take advantage of a plant but not an animal. To me and any other biologist they are both living organisms.

 

"So civilization is to avoid violence that is done only for sense gratification. Who does not follow this rule has many problems in his spiritual research, in controlling his mind,in counteracting the fact that according the laws of nature he has to suffer for the problems that he causes to others..

 

so better to be more civilized and peaceful"

 

.-----

 

hopefully my comments above answer this

 

"We have a personal opinion and basis behind our non-vegetarian lifestyle too.

 

opinion is not synonim of good opinion"

 

----

 

I agree..an opinion does not necessarily mean a good opinion.

 

"i am sorry if you are offended..but in a site like this, with people who believe and see in his very life the effect of karma law, it is very difficult to come and preach that killing animals for simple sense gratification is civilization... even if the murderers are nice in producing phone cells, computers, electric guitars or cars

 

who cares if i have my new phone cell every week, if in the next lifes i have to be repeatedly killed in the same painful way of the innocent animals that i have slaughtered and killed?

 

who will answer to my call? the butcher?"

 

I am not offended - I am simply trying to rationalize here. But I am sure that there are other meat eaters that may have been offended by your comments. Once again, I will mention that I do not promote killing animals or plants for personal gratification. But the sad fact of life remains that in order to survive and fulfill various functional needs you do need to depend on other living organisms and unfortunately at times cause pain to them.

 

"study deeply vedic culture..you will find great benefit"

 

I am a student of vedic culture. And I do not claim to know it all.

 

[Guest guest]

If you read my email carefully you would have noted that the sentence actually says that after the sacrifice the FLESH WAS CONSUMED

••so that ceremony is not vedic and itis not an example of right behaviour, 1500 bc we are already in kali yuga the age of corruption

 

Your definition of civilization is your own definition

••yes.. everyone gives his definitions even if he has learned principles from a culture

 

One, that it is impossible to go through life and not cause pain to any other living organism.

••so let us cause less as possible

 

Your leather accessories came from the death of animals

••i do not use leather

 

So to tell me that an apple plucked from the tree "experiences less pain" than an animal slaughtered for meat is a statement without basis.

••so eat only fruits fallen from the trees..in this way you will cause no pain at all. If you do not do it i assume that all your conference about the pain of the plants is hipochrit and i go on believing on what i see and feel..... I expect also that you sometimes eat some human. If you do not feel any graduality ..from minerals to plants,,, from plants to animals... you surely do not discriminate even between animals and humans

 

"So civilization is to avoid violence that is done only for sense gratification. Who does not follow this rule has many problems in his spiritual research, in controlling his mind,in counteracting the fact that according the laws of nature he has to suffer for the problems that he causes to others..

so better to be more civilized and peaceful"

.-----

hopefully my comments above answer this

••no..it's not an answer because karma law is clearly stated in vedic scriptures. It is another perspective.. Killing an animal is considered infinitely more sinful than killing a plant.

 

But I am sure that there are other meat eaters that may have been offended by your comments

••we are in a site devoted to a vegetarian culture.. and a culture who believes in cause-effects law. Vegetarianism is at the basis of the behaviour of a sanatana dharmi, so it is not possible to talk here in favor of meat eating and not to hear some opposition. It is like to go in a christian forum and be annoyed by the fact that they talk about jesus.

Consider also the offence that the animal murderers/eaters do against the animals they're killing every day

 

I am a student of vedic culture. And I do not claim to know it all.

••vegetarianism is not a very esoteric matter... it is basis. I do not know what you are understanding by your studies if you do not follow this basic principle and behaviour.Knowing the principles you will take also much more reaction from your sinful act than a simple ignorant

 

please stop the massacre...elevate your self....be vegetarian

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

vedas and shastras dont want any life to be killed including plants and trees and even grass.But they also dont impose it on you immediatly.

 

1)if u attain the sanyasi stage youb can eat only fruits fallen on earth and grass which has gone dry and dead plants

 

2)before that you cannot eat meat if u are a bhramana or vysya.

 

3)even other csates cannot eat meat on special days and even months.

 

4. as days progress u forgetv all bad habits.

 

theoritically u can eat meat and be hindu.But u are supposed to leave it as soon as possible.becasue vedas knew if it says all should not eat meat,it wont be adhered to.Like how buddhists in china now eat snakes,it would have gone useless.

 

hierarchially those who dont even eat plants are superior to plant eaters.plant eaters are superior to meat eaters.simple.

[Guest guest]

Thank you! thats the first sensible argument i have heard in a while! incidentally, what do those at the top of the hierarchy eat if they do not eat even plants? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

"If you read my email carefully you would have noted that the sentence actually says that after the sacrifice the FLESH WAS CONSUMED

••so that ceremony is not vedic and itis not an example of right behaviour, 1500 bc we are already in kali yuga the age of corruption"

 

i did not draw conclusions..i simply stated facts...what you make of it is your own conclusion. I simply stated the fact that a vedic ceremony incorporated flesh eating. I certainly did not make that up.

 

"Your definition of civilization is your own definition

••yes.. everyone gives his definitions even if he has learned principles from a culture"

 

sure..i dont argue with that..what's your point?

 

"One, that it is impossible to go through life and not cause pain to any other living organism.

••so let us cause less as possible"

 

I agree...which is why i clarified that i am not a raging maniac who kills animals or plants for the pleasure of it. The sad fact of life is you have to depend on all living organisms for nourishment and fulfilling other functional needs.

 

"Your leather accessories came from the death of animals

••i do not use leather"

 

Good for you! just to get picky and obnoxious..i noticed you kept quiet about milk though...since you are so self righteous about not depending on animal products...while we're on it, i hope you dont take any medicines either..they contain animal based products.

 

"So to tell me that an apple plucked from the tree "experiences less pain" than an animal slaughtered for meat is a statement without basis.

••so eat only fruits fallen from the trees..in this way you will cause no pain at all. If you do not do it i assume that all your conference about the pain of the plants is hipochrit and i go on believing on what i see and feel..... I expect also that you sometimes eat some human. If you do not feel any graduality ..from minerals to plants,,, from plants to animals... you surely do not discriminate even between animals and humans"

 

nope..i do not discriminate between take advantage of plants, animals or humans for that matter. I am all for blood transfusions and bone marrow transplants, in which case i take advantage of another human being in order to fulfill my functional needs. I even obtained nourishment from my mother when she breast fed me. I do not understand why I should be the one eating fruits fallen from the tree. I am not the one that is insisting on not causing pain to other organisms. Heck, i eat meat! You are the one that insists on causing minimal pain to animals..so you should be the one eating apples from the ground..did you just get lost in the argument? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

"So civilization is to avoid violence that is done only for sense gratification. Who does not follow this rule has many problems in his spiritual research, in controlling his mind,in counteracting the fact that according the laws of nature he has to suffer for the problems that he causes to others..

so better to be more civilized and peaceful"

.-----

hopefully my comments above answer this

••no..it's not an answer because karma law is clearly stated in vedic scriptures. It is another perspective.. Killing an animal is considered infinitely more sinful than killing a plant."

 

maybe you're right..i havent yet come across that particulr line in the scripture that considers killing animals more sinful than plants...i thought that the argument in the scriptures is toward not killing all living organisms unnecessarily. If you happen to have that particular verse / sentence that puts animals above plants do let me know. As I said before i do not claim to know it all.

 

"But I am sure that there are other meat eaters that may have been offended by your comments

••we are in a site devoted to a vegetarian culture.. and a culture who believes in cause-effects law. Vegetarianism is at the basis of the behaviour of a sanatana dharmi, so it is not possible to talk here in favor of meat eating and not to hear some opposition. It is like to go in a christian forum and be annoyed by the fact that they talk about jesus.

Consider also the offence that the animal murderers/eaters do against the animals they're killing every day"

 

You mentioned we're in a site devoted to vegetarian culture. I dont know what site you're on..but the site i am on is devoted to hindu religion and not culture. There is a difference btwn culture and religion. To me, hindu culture may be a vegetarian culture, but I am not convinced that hindu religion prohibits meat eating, as you want me to believe. I do not believe that I become any less hindu or any less religious or pious than you by eating meat. And your insisting that the rest of the meat eating hindu population are sub humans and asuras is offensive not just to me but to the rest of the hindus in the forum. While we are considering animal murders, please consider plant murders too.

 

"I am a student of vedic culture. And I do not claim to know it all.

••vegetarianism is not a very esoteric matter... it is basis. I do not know what you are understanding by your studies if you do not follow this basic principle and behaviour.Knowing the principles you will take also much more reaction from your sinful act than a simple ignorant"

 

i read the scriptures and let them speak to me. I do not blindly follow a culture or tradition. When i read something that prohibits meat eating, i definitely will think twice.

 

"please stop the massacre...elevate your self....be vegetarian"

 

oh...quit being dramatic! while we're at it...i'll put in a little of my own dramatism - please stop killing embryos...lentils are nothing but embryos of plants! elevate yourself...be autotrophic!

[Guest guest]

plants too have life and should not be consumed.Hinduism knew it long back.But it also knew that it cannot make it a common rule for everybody.Buddhism made this mistake.Jainism made this mistake.They made vegetarianism common to everybody and it failed.

 

Hinduism knew that we should train people to shed their bad habits.So initially you eat meat but not in holy months and holy days.Then slowly as you age you reduce meat eating.when you go to vanaprastha stage you even avoid eating when you are not hungry.

 

such people are hierarchially superior to even plants eaters like us.They can eat only fallen fruits, fallen grains etc.They can wear dead animals leather too,but that animal should have died naturally.Thast why saints use deer skin and tiger skin.

 

They cannot harm a single living being like ants and plants.That is the greatness of hinduism.you get trained and then you are made to leave meat on your own.no religion had this foresight.Buddha who so loudly protested at animals being eaten by hindus made vegetarianism compulsary for all.Now not even monks follow him.They eat snakes,lizards and dogs in korea.Buddha would have been proud of hinduism had he been alive now.

 

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

Jiva jivaSe jivaNam

One living entity is depended on another living entity

Humans are forced to work very hard simply to be able to provide fuel to keep this body and soul together

 

We can live healthy and happily without the need to eat flesh but this body would not survive without the fruits and vegetables.

 

It is only intelligence to eat what is necessary where is the need to cause the pain which is so visible for any one to see, so plants also has life but do we actually feel the suffering they feel? We sure can see the hurt in the animals.

 

Ahimsa is practice to minimize the suffering to other living beings. Animals have nerves system more advanced then plants, besides Lord has asked clearly what he would accept as offering, a leaf a flower a fruit and water simple.Bg9.26(in reply to- If you happen to have that particular verse / sentence that puts animals above plants do let me know.)

 

As for milk where is the problem? No killing is involved, she produces more milk then her calf can consume, she is a mother to all of humanity any one after having fully satisfied by her milk wants to eat her will not please Krishna.

Jai Govind Jai Gopal

Jai Shree Krishna