why pakistan failed. india listen up.

[veluthukaran 0]

Jinnah's grandson is an Indian. Bangladeshis now come to India to find work. Pakistan's Muslim unity broke apart into Bangladesh (so what makes them think Kashmir would not want the same). There is no pan arab islamic state. all reasons for pakistan turned out to not be true. one cannot create a country based on religion. it will fail. religion and politics do not mix, that is why america successful. why nepal not friendly to bharat? india listen up.

[Guest guest]

Jinnah's grandson did not become an indian by love for India.At independence he had a huge textile business empire in India.Had he gone to pakistan he would have lost it.It's familiar to all(Bombay dyeing)That's why he is still Indian.

 

Jinnah's daughter(she is indian) was shown in doordharshan when she went to see the indo-pak one day series under special invitation from musharraf.When paksiatn lost the series she got upset and left to her hotel room.That's some patriotism.

 

Nepal is friendly to India.Indian companies are the biggest investors in Nepal.If we pull out nepal will collapse.Mao communists in India and their stooges raise the anti-india slogan in Nepal often,that's all.

 

I dont want India to be hindu-country.I only request that Hindus be treated as equal to muslims and christians."Dont treat hindus as second class citizens,in India" is my humble request.

 

Hindus cannot start colleges,schools.But minorities start it with ease and convert by will.Hindus are second class citizens in India.Change it.Make it equal to all first

[maadhav 0]

<< religion and politics do not mix,>>

 

in islam, religion and politics is same, per koran and hadith.

 

that is why every muslim in every country wants separate laws for them, and foolishly bharat has given them.

it has to change. no separte laws.

 

 

[veluthukaran 0]

agree

[maadhav 0]

thanks.

 

and why the vedic country should declare muslim holidays as national holidays when islam actually is anti hindu?

 

this neeeds to stop.

 

[Guest guest]

Why your Atal has nominated Abdul kalam as president, why not a hindu?.

[maadhav 0]

why "my"?

 

he is a muslim by name only in my view.

he should give up islam and accept hinduism.

or at least give up islam.

 

[Guest guest]

Abdul Kalam is a vegetarian.His favorite book is bhagavd geetha.He is a patriot.He wants to make India a super power in 2020.He is the father of Indian atom bomb.He is not only a model muslim,but he is a model indian and model human.

[maadhav 0]

<< Abdul Kalam is a vegetarian.His favorite book is bhagavd geetha.He is a patriot.He wants to make India a super power in 2020.He is the father of Indian atom bomb.He is not only a model muslim,but he is a model indian and model human. >>

 

thanks priya vaishnava!

 

he respectfully bow-downs to hindu gurus and swamis

just like a hindu with folded hands.

he listens them too respetfully.

and seeks blessings too.

 

if i meet him, i would respectfully request him to give up islam because he, being rational, can see and understand that islam is barbaric and anti-hindu.

 

[Guest guest]

i am a devout hindu, yet i utterly disagree with you, maadhav.

it seems to me that you see hinduism as some sort of monolithic and perfect entity. but you have to understand that that simply is not true. hinduism has its faults--just like every religion. you shouldn't go around parading your own views and your religion just because you think the other party is wrong in their views and religion: who are you to judge what is the right religion and what is not? if someone chooses to believe in islam, you--as a hindu--should respect that choice. this does not mean you agree with that choice, but this also does not mean you deem the choice "irrational" and "barbaric" because, frankly, you yourself do not know the Truth. religion is merely a path for you to attain the Truth. realize this: all the paths eventually lead to the same Truth. respect each path, no matter how long and "irrational" it may seem to you. that is what hinduism is about.

[maadhav 0]

<< i am a devout hindu, yet i utterly disagree with you, maadhav. it seems to me that you see hinduism as some sort of monolithic and perfect entity. but you have to understand that that simply is not true. >>

 

if so, then why you foolishly became a devout follower of an imperfect religion?

 

has any hindu forced you at gun point to stay hindu?

 

either you know the truth about hinduism, or find a perfect religon of your choice, and never say you are a hindu. then people would see you as a smart man.

 

<< hinduism has its faults--just like every religion. >>

 

when one's brain cannot understand something, one says teh subject is faulty ( and one sees oneself as perfet. kindly prove your self to be perfect.)

 

who is your guru, or which shastra you live by?

 

<< you shouldn't go around parading your own views and your religion just because you think the other party is wrong in their views and religion: >>

 

islam caused hindus' genocide for 1000 years and you still like islam?

 

<< who are you to judge what is the right religion and what is not? >>

 

if some one stabs you in front and in back, destroys your home or occupies it and keeps you mother as a whore, who are you to judge the staber is a bad guy?

 

<< if someone chooses to believe in islam, you--as a hindu--should respect that choice. >>

 

sure i do, as long as they do it out of bharat.

becaue bharat is deva bhoomi, not a asura bhoomi.

it is not for islam. islam did not grow there but has invaded.

 

<< this does not mean you agree with that choice, but this also does not mean you deem the choice "irrational" and "barbaric" because, frankly, you yourself do not know the Truth. >>

 

yes, and so we know the truth from the vedic gurus, sadhus and shastras. do you hate them and love koran instead?

 

<< religion is merely a path for you to attain the Truth. >>

 

and it seem you have not yet realized what hinduism is.

 

<< realize this: all the paths eventually lead to the same Truth. >>

 

then why islam made hell for the hindus for 1000 years?

 

< respect each path, no matter how long and "irrational" it may seem to you. that is what hinduism is about. >>

 

no, it is not.

prove that islam is better than hinduism.

i have proved it is not.

 

[Guest guest]

[[<< i am a devout hindu, yet i utterly disagree with you, maadhav. it seems to me that you see hinduism as some sort of monolithic and perfect entity. but you have to understand that that simply is not true. >>

if so, then why you foolishly became a devout follower of an imperfect religion?]]

 

-->My understanding is that all religions are imperfect in one way or another because there is nothing that the human mind can grasp that can be "perfect." You can have a religion that is most near to perfect as possible in comparison to other religions, but it will nonetheless remain imperfect. There is only one thing that is perfect and that is the Truth. Religion is the path TO the Truth, not the Truth itself. These must never be confused.

 

[[has any hindu forced you at gun point to stay hindu?

either you know the truth about hinduism, or find a perfect religon of your choice, and never say you are a hindu. then people would see you as a smart man.]]

 

-->Have you not read the Vedas, my friend? "Ekam sad viprah bahudeh vadanti," says the Rg-Veda. Translation--"The Truth is One, the wise call it by many names." This means that the Truth has more than one form, more than one name. You choose to call him Krishna. Muslims choose to call him Allah. Neither of you truely know what the Truth is, because the human mind, as you said, cannot understand something that is perfect. Think of it this way: the Truth stands at the peak of a mountain. You have to climb this mountain to attain the Truth (God, Krishna, Allah, etc.). How do you climb this mountain? Do you go straight up or go around and around slowly higher and higher? You are choosing to go straight up, whereas the Muslim may be choosing to go around and around. But in the end, does it matter what way you took? You both came to the same peak of the mountain. You may've gotten there faster, yes, but why would you persecute the Muslim for taking the "wrong" way to the Truth when he's just taking a longer way? There is no need to fight about how to get there: all paths you take will lead to the the top of the mountain. Combine that analogy with the Bhagavad Gita 9:23--"Whatever a man may sacrifice to other gods, O son of Kunti, is really meant for Me alone, but it is offered without true understanding." Here, Krishna acknowledges that when a non-Hindu worships their God or Gods, they are indirectly worshiping Krishna.

 

[[who is your guru, or which shastra you live by?]]

 

-->I do not have a guru since I have been raised in the US where such practices are not commonplace. Also, I do not ascribe myself to a particular Shastra but I can tell you that I have read the four Vedic Samhitas, the Upanishads upon which Shankaracharya commented upon (plus some minor ones), the Brahma Sutras, the Bhagavad Gita, and other major scriptures of Hinduism. I have also read parts of the Holy Bible and Koran. The scriptures that I most highly respect are the Upanishads. Now I am forced to ask you the same question, maadhav: what is your basis of understanding the Hindu religion? What scriptures have you read and are familiar with?

 

[[islam caused hindus' genocide for 1000 years and you still like islam?]]

 

-->As I said, every religion has its imperfections. Hinduism has the caste system which is responsible for unnecessary suffering of millions of innocent civilians. Islam, as you said, committed genocide. Christainity led the crusades. Etc. Etc. Etc. But, as a Hindu, you should realize that you are no one to act as a punisher. My life on earth is effected by my previous lives on earth and ther collective karma therefrom. If I suffer in this lifetime, I must have commited a sin in a previous lifetime. So I brought about my own punishment, my own suffering in this lifetime from my actions in previous lifetimes. If Muslims in the past have commited evil actions, then they will be punished for those actions through karma. You are not the one to judge who gets what punishment--that is karma's job.

 

[[if some one stabs you in front and in back, destroys your home or occupies it and keeps you mother as a whore, who are you to judge the staber is a bad guy?]]

 

-->I can call that person a bad person, but this does not mean that I go to his house to stab him and occupy his home and do what he did to me. That would be sinking to his level of ignorance and violence. If he did something so evil, his own karma will give him punishment, not me. I can consider him an evil person if I wanted to, but in no way would I be the executor of his punishment. Karma will punish him first through the law by arresting him and possibly giving him a death penalty, and karma will punish him in a future lifetime as well.

 

[[sure i do, as long as they do it out of bharat.

becaue bharat is deva bhoomi, not a asura bhoomi.

it is not for islam. islam did not grow there but has invaded.]]

 

-->India is a great country, and I will stand as a proud Indian any day. But it is nowhere close to being a "deva-bhoomi." Prostitution, persecution through caste system, widespread corruption, spurts of social havoc and economic chaos, riots, floods, droughts, earthquakes. This isn't a "deva-bhoomi" just because the scriptures say it is a "deva-bhoomi." It is only a "deva-bhoomi" when people make it into one by living in peace, harmony, nonviolence, and cooperation instead of violence and prejudiceness. It doesn't matter that Islam grew up in India or not, the fact of the matter is that its there and its influence is not going to go away no matter how hard you try. Stop trying to seek retribution for past wrongs and live in the present: if we don't cooperate at home, we will be taken advantage of by the rest of the world.

 

It almost seems to me that you argue from your side not only to support Hinduism but also to express your xenophobia: you are afraid of foreign influence upon Hinduism, specifically Islamic influence. If this is true, then you have no reason to worry--Hinduism has survived as the oldest practiced religion on earth for a reason: it has been able to adapt and grow even with head-on-head clash with other philosophies, religions, and beliefs. It will continue to do so as long as we have an open, nonviolent approach to things. Violence should only be used for defensive purposes.

 

[[<< this does not mean you agree with that choice, but this also does not mean you deem the choice "irrational" and "barbaric" because, frankly, you yourself do not know the Truth. >>

yes, and so we know the truth from the vedic gurus, sadhus and shastras. do you hate them and love koran instead?]]

 

-->Why do you keep insisting that I am anti-Hindu? Hinduism isn't subtitled "Lets All Hate Islam." If anything, Hinduism is subtitled as "Tolerance." Tolerance of other beliefs, of other religions, is what has helped Hinduism survive for all these thousands of years.

 

[[<< religion is merely a path for you to attain the Truth.>>

and it seem you have not yet realized what hinduism is.]]

 

-->Do explain to me what your view of Hinduism exactly is. Explain what i have "not yet realized" about Hinduism after reading so many of its most vital scriptures. Explain to me what I could not find in the Gita, in the Upanishads, in the Samhitas, etc.

 

[[<< realize this: all the paths eventually lead to the same Truth. >>

then why islam made hell for the hindus for 1000 years?]]

 

-->What does your answer to my statement have anything to do with what I wrote? I wrote a simple statement: All paths lead to the same Truth. And your response was again drawing attention away from the topic at hand to point to a past wrong committed on part of the Muslims. Muslims did slay Hindus in the past: yes. And Hindus have slayed Muslims in the past: yes. If both sides continue hatred and violence and remain ignorant of each other, nothing will ever be accomplished.

 

[[<< respect each path, no matter how long and "irrational" it may seem to you. that is what hinduism is about. >>

no, it is not.

prove that islam is better than hinduism.

i have proved it is not.]]

 

-->You are still caught up in the idea that religion is some sort of competition to see who's better than who. Religion is not a competition. Religion is a path. Religion is a way of life. The Hindu view of religion is anything BUT a competition--it is a journey that people as individuals, not members of religions or faiths, must take to attain something that they themselves must indulge upon.

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

Re

(My understanding is that all religions are imperfect in one way or another because there is nothing that the human mind can grasp that can be "perfect." You can have a religion that is most near to perfect as possible in comparison to other religions, but it will nonetheless remain imperfect. There is only one thing that is perfect and that is the Truth. Religion is the path TO the Truth, not the Truth itself. These must never be confused.)

 

I beg to differ if the path is imperfect it can never reach the truth, on the other hand the Dharma given by the Lord is always perfect, imperfection is in our sincerity to follow it, caught up in this ocean of sansar full of desires.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[veluthukaran 0]

well said h85!

[maadhav 0]

<< Muslims did slay Hindus in the past: yes. And Hindus have slayed Muslims in the past: yes. >>

 

did we invade other country and converted any one to hinduism? did we convert any muslim to hinduism like that?

 

did they do it to us and by invading our home land?

 

<< If both sides continue hatred and violence and remain ignorant of each other, nothing will ever be accomplished.>>

 

even gandhi failed to make the muslims non violent.

even you failed to save bamian buddha statue from the islam missiles. you need to kill the ideology. or it will kill the vedic culture. who caused 350 deaths in a russian school recently? islam or hinduism? would you like to go to chechnia and make the muslim terrorists your disciples?

 

was krishna a fool when he said to arjun that he must fight?

 

my sadhana is dvaita, and we may never come to agreement.

 

let us say i am a moodha.

and let us say for the sake of argument,

that majority of the hindus are moodhas.

so we would live by krishna's words as we understand it.

if you do not like, then then make ten muslim terrorist your disciples and come here, and we may think you are not a moodha.

 

BTW, jai sankaracharya!

bhaja govindam moodha mate.

 

 

[maadhav 0]

very good response, ganeshprasadji!

please keep it up.

 

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

Pranam maadhavji

 

Happy janmashtami for Monday

 

You keep it up too.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[Guest guest]

maadhav, you have once again failed to answer each one of my questions. In my post before this one, I wrote so many things that I wanted you to answer, but you ignored every single one of those questions and statements. Why did you do this? Is it because you have no answer? Is it because you cannot face the reality of what Hinduism is and has been for thousands of years?

 

All you did was take 2 of my statements--specifically, ones that had to do with violence & hatred--and refuted them. I want you to refute all of what I wrote. As for my refutations to your last post:

 

[[<< Muslims did slay Hindus in the past: yes. And Hindus have slayed Muslims in the past: yes. >>

did we invade other country and converted any one to hinduism? did we convert any muslim to hinduism like that?

did they do it to us and by invading our home land?]]

 

-->Why do you continue to seek retribution for history? Karma will take care of their punishment. Stop gathering bad karma by trying to kill innocent people. All Muslims are not evil--there are Hindus who are evil people, just like there are Muslims Christians Jews etc. who are evil people. Stop being prejudiced against a whole people for the actions of individuals.

 

[[<< If both sides continue hatred and violence and remain ignorant of each other, nothing will ever be accomplished.>>

even gandhi failed to make the muslims non violent.

even you failed to save bamian buddha statue from the islam missiles.]]

 

So if even Gandhi failed to make some particular Muslims non-violent, then it is never accomplishable? That is very VERY flawed logic. Do you know who killed our great Mahatma Gandhi? Nathuram Godse: he was a HINDU. Not a Muslim terrorist. So does this mean that all Hindus are terrorists who don't want people like Mahatma Gandhi to live? NO.

 

[[you need to kill the ideology. or it will kill the vedic culture. who caused 350 deaths in a russian school recently? islam or hinduism?]]

 

Who are you to determine which ideology is killed and which isn't? As a Hindu you should realize that karma will take care of the punishment of "kill[ing] the ideology."

 

[[would you like to go to chechnia and make the muslim terrorists your disciples?

was krishna a fool when he said to arjun that he must fight?]]

 

-->Again, you revert to drawing attention away from the topic at hand and accuse me of being anti-Hindu for pointint out the truth: all Muslims are not evil. Just because someone doesn't AGREE with you on how Hinduism is does not mean that they are not Hindu. Learn tolerance.

 

What is a "moodha"?

[Guest guest]

...that above post was by me...

[veluthukaran 0]

 

did we invade other country and converted any one to hinduism? did we convert any muslim to hinduism like that?

 

did they do it to us and by invading our home land?

 

 

 

be aware some would argue that aryans from caucus region came to india and instilled vedic culture or mixed culture with aboriginal peoples so Hinduism's beginnings may have started with what I would not call invasion, but foreign influence (at least to aboriginal peoples). Read scientific paper:

 

Analysis of Indian population based on Y-STRs reveals existence of male gene flow across different language groups.

 

Saha A, Udhayasuriyan PT, Bhat KV, Bamezai R.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14659043

 

 

and....

 

 

Population genetic analysis among five Indian population groups using six microsatellite markers.

Hum Biol. 2003 Apr;75(2):189-203.

PMID: 12943158 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12943158

 

 

 

even you failed to save bamian buddha statue from the islam missiles.

 

 

yes, and , "some" buddhist temples all across bharat became converted to hindu temples (and yes turks and arabs did play a small role in the destruction of buddhism in bharat). there is archeological evidence you cannot deny.

 

 

 

was krishna a fool when he said to arjun that he must fight?

 

 

 

no, but you are not sri krsna to make that judgement for yourself. only krsna justifies the end to the means. gandhiji did not believe in being passive at all times. gandhiji would approve of using violence only as the last resort (if a man was about to shoot at school children and there was no other way to stop him then you should kill him). Satyagrahis understand this.

 

 

that majority of the hindus are moodhas.

 

 

majority of hindus do not understand hinduism as they cannot read or do not have access to vedic books. it would be inaccurate to say that majority of hindus are educated like yourself regarding vedic texts. majoruty hindus know stories only passed on to them orally or from TV serials maybe (and serials are wrong, like Ramayan serial).

 

you also have not answered all of h85's questions.

[Guest guest]

...maadhav, you always seem to make good points, but your whole argument falls when you denounce Islam

One must make a distinction between the religion of Islam, and the interpretation of the religion by the minority...

 

The majority of followers of Islam will not kill or forcibly convert others...so there is where your argument fails...

 

The minority must be targeted...not the religion itself...

 

I give an example - that Abdul Karam - he is a vegetarian etc, and you applauded him...then u go and persuade him to give up islam - here u clearly illogically condemn a religion when you admit that a follower of that religion (Abdul Karam) is a great person...

 

In fact the truth is that most of the followers of Islam are 100% peaceful...

 

So please do not blame everything on the religion - target those who INCORRECTLY interpret the Koran, and do this by helping those followers of Islam who are giving the correct interpretation by showing the world that this is the correct interpretation...and all Muslims will follow...

[maadhav 0]

<< One must make a distinction between the religion of Islam, and the interpretation of the religion by the minority...

 

The majority of followers of Islam will not kill or forcibly convert others...>>

 

sure, because they do not have to.

the minority does the job for them by the secret support from the majority. or many even do not know that their donation helps the islam soildiers.

 

also note that this "peace loving" majority never tries to pacify or control or eliminat the violent and barbaric minority. nor they condemn them even. besides the koran and hadith do not teach peace but violence: convert or kill.

 

<< so there is where your argument fails...>>

 

no, that is where you fail to understand islam and the muslims.

 

<< The minority must be targeted...not the religion itself...>>

 

no. kill the ideology (remove it from the vedic land) and the problem is solved. this violent minority is produced by the teachings of koran and hadith in the madressas, within bharat and in pakistan, saudi arabia etc. if there were no madressas, no mosuques, no mullas, no koran copies, and no muslim neighborhoods where the hindus cannot enter freely, then there would not be any terrorists either.

 

<< I give an example - that Abdul Karam - he is a vegetarian etc, and you applauded him...then u go and persuade him to give up islam - here u clearly illogically condemn a religion when you admit that a follower of that religion (Abdul Karam) is a great person...>>

 

and you missed the point that kalam is not a real muslim. but by name only. and that is why he should give up islam, becaues he is not following it really. he is more a hindu in practice.

 

<< In fact the truth is that most of the followers of Islam are 100% peaceful...>>

 

is that not a cunning way to spread islam brutally?

support the small number of violents, and show the world you are peace loving, even when koran teaches violence.

 

<< So please do not blame everything on the religion - >>

 

to not blame islam would be very foolish after suffering for 1000 years.

 

<< target those who INCORRECTLY interpret the Koran, and do this by helping those followers of Islam who are giving the correct interpretation by showing the world that this is the correct interpretation...>>

 

why "we" should help them?

are they weak to control the misinterpretors?

did any one said they are?

give me an example where a mullah came to you and said, "please help me, i want to teach correct islam to the islamists."

 

we can help them by freeing them from islam on our land.

what right islam has on the invaded vedic land?

zero.

to think tht islam has any right in bharat is the greatest illuson and detrimental to the hindus.

 

<< and all Muslims will follow... >>

 

they will follow their mullas only and koran and hadith.

look at the history and tht will be clear.

 

no one has given more chance to the muslims to become peace loving than the hindus, and that too at the cost of millions of hindu lives and thousands of acres of land, and thousands of temples. knowing this, it is unfortunate that still some think like you. too sad. too sad.

 

[Guest guest]

How is it that you have the time and will to answer the questions posed by the Guest above but no time or will to answer MY inquiries that I posed in my second post? Your refusal to answer all my questions shows your weakness: it proves that you HAVE no response to my arguments. You are ignorance personified if you cannot understand the simple logic with which I have responded to your posts. Your ignorance is such that you will still argue that it is night-time even if I show you the sun is at high noon. It is a sad fault of the human mind, this ignorance and stubbornness that you so bluntly put on display for the world to see.

[Guest guest]

Thank you veluthukaran for your continued support! Continue the good work! *applauds*

[veluthukaran 0]

thank you h85, why not register?

 

secondly, I respect maadav and his viewpoints and do not consider him to be an ignorant person, just the opposite. i do feel however that he has some hatred in his heart (and I can understand where this hate comes from) and he would be better to let it rise away from him. we all want what is best for bharat and the protection of its people. islam cannot be reconciled with hindu tradition and it is true we did not invade any other lands with our ways of life and islam has. that said, we cannot lower ourselves to that level. i would also appreciate a response to my post as well.