Raghuramanji please explain

[gokulkr 1]

I have downloaded your posts (proving vishnu as supreme)in my pc. thanks for that.

 

my father is a smartha. alomost all smarthas including my father are obsessesed with jyoti worship & they say vallalars way is best as he merged with jyothi.

 

since being my father i didnt debated/argued with him.

 

Even in our vaishnavam great souls like "goddess Andal, Alwars, Sri Sri Sugandha Deepa thirtha Swamigal, Sri Sri Venkata Surya Swamigal, Srimathi Meerabhai" merged with Sriranganatha/Sri krishna.

 

[also sri sri madhvacharya merged with vayu , sri sri vallabhacharya merged with yamuna & sri sri chaitanya mahaprabhu merged with ganges.]

so why do above scholars/saints/incarnations are not reverred as much as vallalar. why do smarthas give importance only to vallalar. i think above scholars/saints also deserve equal respect as vallalar has been given.

 

i think smarthas are narrow minded. they always try to belittle vaishnava sampradayas & its scholars. they say vaishnava sampradayas are for the "less-intelligent" & advaitham is for "wise people".

 

but smarthas view is not supported by vedas & smritis. so how does smarthas argue that their views are genuine ?

 

pls explain.

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Om Namah Shivaya

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Om Namo Venkatesaya

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

Eventhough smarthas worship all Gods like Lord Skanda, Lord Ganesh etc., they are strictly Shivites. This is true of all followers of Advitists as well. That is why you find advitists applying Vibuthi all over their bodies. They believe that Lord Shiva is the origin of all. They read only Shiva purana and like, and most of them do not read Vedas. Infact they do not know they are wrong. As for learned adviaitists you do not need explanation.

 

Also in a smartha family, there is utter satisfaction among family members praying to their family deity and attending to daily activities. They concentrate more on acts and Karmas than philosophizing about which God is great and what is truth(although they believe Lord Shiva is the supreme God). So naturally there is no interest among smarthas on Sri Mahvacharya. However Rayuru is considered as pratyaksha Daivam and so is Shirdi Sai Baba among Smartha.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

I remember an event when I was perhaps 12-14 years of age. One of my friends of my age told me once that SriVaishnavas pray only to Lord Vishnu and none else as we were going to a SriVaishnava temple. I told him why are these SriVaishnavas so narrow minded. All Gods are same. I felt deeply hurt about the way SriVaishnavas thought about other Gods. That is then.

 

Here I stand now quoting verses to prove Lord Vishnu's Sarvottamatva. I gave this story just to show how smarthas feel about Vaishnavism and consequently about AchArya Madhva.

[Guest guest]

Raghuram ji,

 

Some Smarthas apply Vibuti, Some apply Chandan, Some Kumkum, Some Sendur etc etc.

 

Its wrong to say that Smarthas apply Only Vibhuti.

 

You calling Smarthas as Saivites just because of Vibhuthi is not a sufficient proof.

 

Its actually, the other way. Saivites AND Smarthas apply Vibhithi.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

I come from a Smartha family and I know that all smarthas are by heart Shivites.

[Guest guest]

Dear Sir,

 

I am also from a Smartha family. My mother prays Shakthi, my father prays Muruga, my wife prays Ganapathi and I pray muruga.

 

None of us pray Shiva. FYI.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

Shivism is infused with monism. If you know that. So for Shivites, praying to Shiva Parivar is most preferred.

[Guest guest]

Lot of Smarthas go to Perumal temples.

They also worship Ram, Hanuman, they are equally at ease in worshipping all gods ( not just one particular god).

 

Since you said YOU come from a smartha family I gave example from MY family.

 

So smarthas are not strictly saivites or vaishnavites.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

Lot of Vaishnavas pray to Lord Shiva. That does not make them a Shivite. The fact is all Smarthas believe that Lord Shiva is supreme. You can simply test this by telling them Lord Shiva is not supreme and it is Lord Vishnu who is supreme. They will start telling stories from Shiva Purana etc. to prove Lord Shiva is supreme. But they won't care if you tell them that Lord Agni is not suprme God. So instead of denying the truth accept it. Perhaps smarthas do not know what they even believe.

[Guest guest]

Shaivites worship Shiva( and none other).

Vaishnavites worship Vishnu ( and none other).

 

Smarthas worship Shiva, Vishnu, Ganapathi, Skanda, Shakthi .

A Smartha is neither a Shaivite or a Vaishnavite.

And their religious symbols can vary like Vibuthi, Chandan etc.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

There are different versions of Shivism. Some Shivites pray to other Gods but believe Lord Shiva is supreme. For example in Sri lankan and Tamil version, they believe that all achieve union with Lord Shiva in the end(Monistic Shivism).

 

There are different versions of Vaishnavism. Some pray to Lord Rudra, as in Madhvas.

 

Smarthas similarly pray to all Gods, but believe Lord Shiva is supreme. So that makes them a Shivite.

[Guest guest]

Though they may have a Saiva look, as they usually wear the sacred ashes, they are not to be regarded as Saivas. They are followers of Adi Sankara (8th century A.D.) and the six fold faith or “Shanmata” , which he is believed to have established

[Guest guest]

Shaivites worship Shiva( and none other).

Vaishnavites worship Vishnu ( and none other).

Smarthas worship Shiva, Vishnu, Ganapathi, Skanda, Shakthi .

A Smartha is neither a Shaivite or a Vaishnavite.

And their religious symbols can vary like Vibuthi, Chandan etc.

 

 

not true, vaishnavas worship vishnu knowing that he's god, and he worships devatas knowing that they're servants of god

 

if anyone is worshipping everyone not knowing exactly who is worsipping or thinking that all is the same, or worse, that divine forms are only material manifestations of impersonal brahman, he superficially can be considered tolerant and wide minded.. but the truth is that he considers all devatas false and product of maya

 

so he poses as one who respects every deity but the reality is that he offend them all

[Guest guest]

<--- not true, vaishnavas worship vishnu knowing that he's god, and he worships devatas knowing that they're servants of god

 

if anyone is worshipping everyone not knowing exactly who is worsipping or thinking that all is the same, or worse, that divine forms are only material manifestations of impersonal brahman, he superficially can be considered tolerant and wide minded.. but the truth is that he considers all devatas false and product of maya

 

so he poses as one who respects every deity but the reality is that he offend them all --- >

 

so u say that as though vaishnavas offend other deities and shivties&smarthas respect all deities. if u think like that its the greatest blunder of all.

 

i dont know where are u living. i think u are living in US or UK. come to india, especially south india. see how so called "shivaties & smarthas" make fun of vishnus symbol ie., thirumann (nama). they associate the symbol of vishnu with forgery & fraud. when someone wants to tell that he is chaeated then he used to say he was putten "nama" on his head. so cheap the shaivates are. they actually dont know that they are committing big blasphemy. Also when some shaivatees want to say everything is lost, then they used to say as "everything has become govinda". i think u can get the tone of shaivatees/smarthas showing how much respect they have towards vishnu & its symbol.

Also some shaivatees/smarthas consider seeing a "person wearing a nama" as a bad omen or bad sign.

 

So above fact is enough to prove "shaivatees/smarthas" dont respect vishnu. for name sake only they tell vishnu & shiva are one. but in real sense, they worship shiva & insult vishnu.

 

EVEN IN SHIVA PURANA you can see many tales humiliating Vishnu (& also mahalakshmi). BUT IN BHAGAVATHAM rudra is not insulted as vishnu is insulted in shiva-purana.

 

SO ACtully it is shaivatees & smarthas offend vishnu.

Vaishnavas dont offend rudra & they treat rudra as devotee of vishnu. Moreover, according to vaishnavam, all deities are parts of vishnu only. so by praying vishnu, we worship all gods. so theres no necessary for a vaishnava to respect all gods. actually vaishnavas dont offend any gods.

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Om Namah Shivaya

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Om Namo Venkatesaya

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

gokul, sleep a little more, you're tired... i was saying exactly the opposite

 

(that vaishnavas respect devatas and that advaita smartas do not really respect anyone)

[Guest guest]

if you want u can come to my home, i will take you a short trip around chennai. there you can see shaivatees/smarthas ridiculing vishnu & his symbol. u can see it with ur own eyes.

 

but can u able to show any vaishnava ridiculing shiva & his symbol ? u cant.

 

so stop playing word jugglery & come to real world. dont sleep inside ur house. go outside and see for urself.

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Om Namah Shivaya

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Om Namo Venkatesaya

[Guest guest]

dear guestji (xyx),

 

my prev posts in this thread is targetted to another Guest who supports shaivatee. not to you.

 

why dont u people sign up ur name? many people come here in name of 'Guest' & create confusion.

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Om Namah Shivaya

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Om Namo Venkatesaya

[Guest guest]

so u say that as though vaishnavas offend other deities and shivties&smarthas respect all deities. if u think like that its the greatest blunder of all.

 

--no gokul, i have made a philosophical point..

 

a vaishnava worships siva and devatas as subordinates of vishnu but he respects them giving them the status of complete, real, eternal and holy personalities

 

one who thinks that they are mere images generated by nirguna brahman to help ignorant people in the worship and, for this reason, believes that they are all the same, he is the real, great aparadhi

 

apparently a great tolerant mahatma, but the reality is that he is a personality killer.. a killer of the personality of god and devatas

 

i have learned that vishnu/krsna is supreme, and i am very sorry of religious wars and discriminations, but i do not engage in discussions on who is greater between vishnu and siva because they are two authentic and factual objects of worship and they both give directly or indirectly (if one attain the darshan of sri siva, siva brings him to vishnu.. so the goal is ultimately the same) eternal and complete spiritual realization.

 

my discussion is ony with impersonalists who, saying that all is impersonal, are attempting to kill the personality of krsna, vishnu, siva and all devatas even if they externally appear tolerant and lovers of all the universe

 

of course all these discussions are to be made in peace... it is maya's desire that religious persons make war, in this way the materialists have a big pretext to remain materialists: "if they have the same our behaviour, what's the advantage to accept a religion?"