phallic worship

[Guest guest]

i know this topic may seem controversial for some people, but i must address it. I had heard before that the linga was a phallic figure, but i always dismissed it, because it didnt look like other cultures' phallic figures. but recently, i saw in a malayalam dictionary that penis was "purusha lingam" and vagina was "yoni."

 

i also learned in class recently that the bottom part of the linga (which i had heard before was supposed to be the female part) is called a yoni, while the top is the lingam.

 

How old is linga worhip? Was it originally worshipped as a fertility god? Most cultures, if not all, have worshipped phallic figures in their past, with the neolithic age being the peak of that worship. Indian culture is probably just liike that, and ancient Indians worshipped the linga as a fertility god.

 

I can also see where the linga gets associated with Lord Siva. Abuse of sex and lust can lead to the moral, physical and metaphysical destruction of oneself. And rebirth always comes thru the union of penis and vagina (linga and yoni)

 

anyone else with thoughts on this?

[barney]

Why not Shivalinga has limbs

 

The idols that are the symbols of Gods, often appear peculiar. There are four different kinds of symbol. These are :

1) Swambhu Vignaha - Self appearing elements created by God, that appear all by themselves like the moon, the fire, the earth and rivers etc.

2) Nirguna Vigraha - Things that are assumed to represent the invisible, shapeless forms of God like Shaligrama, Shivalinga, Narmadeshwar etc.

3) Saguna Vigraha - Forms of four-handed Vishnu, eight-handed Jagdamba with conch and wheel and four headed Brahma, five headed Shiva etc.

4) Avatara Vigraha - Shri Rama with bow and arrow, Shri Krishna, Narasimha etc.

 

Among all these forms, the Swambhu Vigrahas (forms) are as original as made by God in the beginning. Avatara Vigrahas also remain unchanged with deformity creeping in their appearance. Nirguna Vigrahas represent or symbolize the shapeless, invisible forms. Hence there is no question of existence of limbs in them. And that is why also they are not called as the idols. To distinguish their peculiarity from the limbed idols. These forms are named as Linga. Linga means Leena that is submerged in devotion. , Shali means group of the gods and Grama means abode. Hence, because of being a symbol of shapeless God, Shivalinga and Shaligrama don't have any limbs.These also show the hidden existence of Shiva, Ganapati.

 

 

 

SHALIGRAMA SHILAYAM TUTRAILOKYAMSACHARA CHARAM |

MAYA SAHA MAHASEN, LEENAMTISHTHATI SARVADA ||

 

Meaning : O the brave warrior of the gods Kartikeya, all the moving and fixed things of the world, all the three Lokas and I, always remain submerged in the rock of Lord Shaligrama. In Skandapurana Lord Shiva Says to Kartikeya!

 

SHALIGRAMAM HARESHCHINHAM PUNYAHAM PUJAYEMTARAH

 

Shaligrama is the symbol of Lord Vishnu, so the man worshps it daily.

 

Reason for the Origin of Shivalinga

 

According to a Puranic tale, once some difference of opinions arose between Brahma the creator and Vishnu the preservor on the question of superiority. Brahma said that being the creator he was great while Vishnu maintained that being the preserver and fosterer he was great. But it could not be decided for years as to who was the greater.This indecision led to the great disturbances in creation and preservation of the universe causing an interruption in the meditation of Lord Shiva the destroyer. Lord Shiva saw that the difference of opinion between Brahma and Vishnu had taken a serious magnitude. If their dispute was not solved earlier, it could severely upset the sequence of the creation.

 

To put their dispute at an end, Lord Shiva appeared between Brahma and Vishnu as a shapeless, formless Linga. At the same time a heavenly voice declared that whoever would first discover the beginning and end of that Linga would be the greater.

 

Thus the practice of Shivalinga worship got started.

 

[barney]

 

1 - ãpãthãla nabha sthhalãntha bhuvana brahmãnda mãvisphurathu

2 - jyothisphãtika linga mouli vilasath poorneendu vãnthãmuthaihi

3 - asthokaapluthamekameeshamanisham rudrãnuvãkãm japeth

4 - dhhyeedikshitha sidhhayee dhruvapadam viprobhhishinchechhivam

5 - brahmãndavyãptha dehã bhhasitha himaruchaa bhhãsamãna bhhujangaihi

6 - kanthhee kãlãha kapardhaha kalithasa sikhalãschanda kodanda hasthãha

7 - trakshya rudrãksha mãlã sulalitha vapusha sãmbhavãmoorthi bhedhãha

8 - rudrãsre rudra sooktha prakathitha vibhavãnaha prayachanthu soukhyam

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Shiva Dhyanam - Translation

 

1. From the lowest levels of creation through the gross cosmic creation, involving in the subtleties of the Consciousness, encompassing the universe bound by the time and space and not bound by time and space.

2. What ever exists in the form of the glory of the Supreme Brahman devoid of qualities, that is symbolized by the eternal deity of the Lord Shiva in the shape of Linga. (The form of Shiva is explained below).

3. It is this Shiva that makes the cosmos cross the differential states of duality as it is the genesis of the Universe and for he recitation of this glory we recite the Rudra Namakam and Chamakam or Rudra Anuvakam or Rudra Prasnam or Rudra Adhyayam.

4. All the one who are well versed in the Vedic Realization, for the sake of achieving the eternal infinite state of consciousness which is immortal, will worship this Lord of the universe and offer oblations of their heart and soul to him.

5. The whole of the Brahmanda ( which is the gross manifestation bound by time and space and not bound by time and space) became his snake over his head.

6. The time which is the kala and which is part of the Yoga Maya, which is the cause of the creation of different states of the cosmos became his blue throat and his hands which are strong like bows. (Shiva's bow is called as Pinaka)

7. The three states of matter (Tredons - Tamasika, Photons - Rajasika, and Tachyons - Satwika) became his three eyes, and all subsidiary states of matter within these three bounds (like gasses, solids, liquids, plasma etc.) became the Rudraksha Garlands over his head, and manifested in the different aspects (bhedhaas) of Shiva. (Shiva is viewed with 5 faces to symbolize 5 elemental aspects of the Prakrithi. These faces are: VAMADEVA, TATPURUSHA, ISHANA, AGHORA, SADAASHIVA. These are called as 5 bhedhas. The 12 jyothirlingaas are the bhedas of the lingaas corresponding to these faces and 12 great temples are built for these linga bhedhaas. They are Amareshwar-Himaalayaas, Bhimeshwar- Andhara Pradesh, Chidembreshwar- Tamil Nadu, Kedareshwar- Kashmir, Mahakaleshwar- Ujjain, Mallikeshwar- Andhara Pradesh, Nageshwar, Omkareshwar- Bengal, Rameshwar- Tamil Nadu, Someswar- Gujarat, Traimbakeshwar- Maharastra, Vishveshar- Uttar Pradesh).

8. This glory of the Shiva and Linga is explained in the Rudra Suktha, for the auspiciousness and welfare of the humanity and we recite this for the Lord Shiva.

Sarve Janaha Sukhino Bhavanthu.

 

[Guest guest]

How old is linga worhip?

••eternal

 

Most cultures, if not all, have worshipped phallic figures in their past, with the neolithic age being the peak of that worship

••we consider that they are resemblance of the original siva lingam worship performed all over the world in all the ages except kaliyuga

 

Abuse of sex and lust can lead to the moral, physical and metaphysical destruction of oneself. And rebirth always comes thru the union of penis and vagina (linga and yoni)

••this in the material world... the relationship between exalted personalities like siva and parvati has nothing to do with mundane sex even if we see similarities

 

anyone else with thoughts on this?

••there's another story on the birth of this worship, well accepted by scholars and acharyas: "Bhrugu who cursed him to be worshipped in the Linga form. Bhrugu was sent by other sages to test the three gods to find out which one was the greatest. When he went to visit Shiva, Shiva did not welcome him with due respect as he was immersed in a dance with his wife Parvathi. For this act of neglecting to welcome the sage, Bhrugu cursed him to be worshipped only in Linga form."

 

of course we are speaking of lilas, shiva is not ignorant or inconscious of proper behaviour and etiquette, this is only to start the beautiful and saint practice of lingam/yoni worshipping for our benefit

 

 

[Guest guest]

all your explanations, though they are good, are based on religious interpretations. Im speaking in a sense of historically. The stories of how linga worship started are mythological stories whose basis was to teach why we worship a linga. why we worship Sivalinga is different from how it started. If it started as a phallic figure, then man originally worshiped it as a sort of sex god or fertility god. Eventually, through philsophy perhaps, the linga becamse associated with Lord Siva, the lord of destruction and recreation.

 

I personally believe that the linga was probably a phallic figure associated with sex when it was originally worshipped. Through time and change, it became associated with Lord Siva and now is worshipped as solely as a form of the Lord.

 

But being a phallic figure, we cannot deny that the Linga was originally worshiped for sexual reasons. This is true in all cultures. There is nothing out of this world amazing about the Indian culture that makes it the only culture who felt different. We are just as succeptible to ideas and worshipping as our ethnic brothers and sisters.

[Guest guest]

The physical interpretation is from minds of people.

 

But the essence is from RG Veda. I have to search the verse. But it says that The Lord was sthanu and other Gods brought divine damsels and placed them on HIs lap for all manifestations to begin. Do not think physically (even if you think there is no problem), but spiritiual essence is eternal. In the realm of spirit, things are different.

 

[Guest guest]

the only problem is that in a forum is not possible to start from the basics and build a comprehension based scientifically on sacred scriptures and on the rational learning method under the guidance of the spiritual master... so it is more easy to find a speculated and simplicistic explanation based on modern "science".. phallic symbol and so on

 

spirituality is a school, not a faith.. obviously siva lingam and siva lilas are not ABC, we are already at the university classes, and you are right that putting them in a message without the necessary "course" before, it makes people think at blind faith, religion, dogmas and mythology.

 

it is not all your fault, in many cases religious people say that religion is a matter of faith, so irreligious people use a faith approach to say that religion is false... and they conceptually correct... if it depends from faith, feeling, sentiment... you accept, i refuse and we are equally right

 

but this is not an honest and productive approach

 

you too, bringing a "modern rational approach", use the word "believe"

 

and this is not scientific

 

anyway.... the possibility to learn spirituality in a scientific way is there, we can use it, or we can use religious approaches (=faith) to accept religion or to refuse it

[gokulkr]

Yes According to varaha purana :

 

Sage brgu wanted to know which of the trinity are supreme ?

so he went to test the gods to know the supremacy of gods.

 

when he went to shiva, Shiva didnt wanted to be mistook by brgu as supreme (as shiva knows vishnu is supreme & shiva himself a devotee of vishnu) and pretended to be indulgeb in "***" with parvati when brgu came. So brgu so got angry by seeing shiva behaving like this even in presence of him. so he cursed shiva to be worshipped in form of phallic symbol along with yoni . so thus shiva came to be worshipped in form of linga.

 

of course, after brhu went to vishnu, he realised the truth vishnu is supreme. rest of events happened lead vishnu to take form of "Lord Venkateswara" & reside in Tirupathi.

 

Varaha purana is considered as "authentic" purana since it supports vedas. Story given by barney is "tamasic" & is against the vedas. so ignore barney's story.

 

of course, people like you may dismiss above story as imaginary/mythology. but this is the true fact.

[Guest guest]

"of course, people like you may dismiss above story as imaginary/mythology. but this is the true fact. "

 

why this behaviour? be more kind, people has not to believe blindly, if you have an idea to show please demonstrate it..

[gokulkr]

what to demonstrate ?

 

should i have to demonstrate varaha-purana is authentic purana supported by vedas ?

 

or

 

should i have to demonstrate incident narrated by varaha-purana happened really & is not a imaginary one ?

 

if it is a latter case, sorry i cant do that. but i know thru with "conscience" that the above incident is true. but the presence of "tirupathi" temple itself proves that incident is true.

 

if it is a former case, u can approach "Raghuraman ji". since he is scholarly than me.

[Guest guest]

so if you can't demonstrate be kind with others

[Guest guest]

i never said that i dismiss stories as mythology. Mythology to me isnt just a bunch of garbage stories. I listen to the stories. I dont take it as literal happenings of people, instead symbolic of the essesnce of what they represent. I blieve in the stories, but not in a literal sense. The storie4s speak thru symbolism.

 

I examine things before following blindly. Im sorry if that comes off as being disbelieving.