Guest guest Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 namaste!! I'd like to know if there's any interaction between the hindu gods. since there are so many (a great part being incarnations), are some of them friends, maybe hate each other..or some other form of contact..? and above all, if a hindu worships mostly vishnu, does he worship shiva as well? am curious about some answers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Hare Krishna, According to Hinduism there are many Devas(Demi-Gods) and one Bhagavan(Lord Visnu) without a second. Lord Shiva is a Great Deva(MahaDeva), but HE cannot be even compared to Bhagavan for Bhagavan is infinite in Goodness. This is according to Vedas which is considered infallible by Hindus. Worshipping Devas with this right knowledge is not considered sin according to Vedas. The word incarnation, meaning taking a body of flesh and blood is a misnomer(wrong name) used for AVATARAS(Descents) of Bhagavan. All AVATARAS are IDENTICAL in every way according to THEIR nature, but do not possess material bodies. AVATARAS are all the SELF-SAME Lord Visnu or Bhagavan. THEY may appear as two or three different people appearing at the same time but Bhagavan's glory is unlimited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 namaste, thanks for your detailed answer. what would be of interest to me as well is what the relationship between vishnu and the other devas is like..? bhaja govindaM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Let us put things in an impartial way. You are making a mockery of people who pray lord Siva as the ultimate god. Why dont you consider the holy trinity, and explain from there on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Hare Krishna, Let us put things in an impartial way. You are making a mockery of people who pray lord Siva as the ultimate god. Why dont you consider the holy trinity, and explain from there on? This is getting tiring. Lord Visnu is Bhagavan. Other Devas are dependent on Lord Visnu. Please read Vedas and then talk instead of giving false information. Please refer Rig Veda 7:40:5 to start with. Sruti has highest authority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Hare Krishna, namaste, thanks for your detailed answer. what would be of interest to me as well is what the relationship between vishnu and the other devas is like..? bhaja govindaM! Lord Visnu is GOD supreme and the only independent entity. Other devatas like Lord Brahma, Lord Rudra(Shiva) etc. depend on Lord Visnu for their mere existence. Infact everything that exists depends on Lord Visnu for its mere existence. At the end of dissolution when Bhagavan destriys everything, Devatas obtain successively higher positions in the next creation and some Devatas obtain salvation ie freedom from birth and death. Even Devatas are subject to birth and death like human beings, only that they live much much longer depending on their position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 so, if I got you right, there is no special relationship between vishnu and the other gods, like in comparison to greek mythology where gods have human qualities and sometimes even fight against each other and sometimes fall in love with each other!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 so, if I got you right, there is no special relationship between vishnu and the other gods, like in comparison to greek mythology where gods have human qualities and sometimes even fight against each other and sometimes fall in love with each other!? Vedas has Nothing to do with greek ideologies. Lord Visnu cannot even be thought to be like a human being. Lord Visnu has no needs to be fulfilled. HE is perfect and FULL(Purna). Lord Visnu has no physical body but has a body of absolute goodness, bliss and knowledge(for lack of other words). On the other hand there are gradations among dependent beings. For example Maha Lakshmi(Great Goddess), according to Vedas, is considered to be like a wife is to a man. This is somewhat similar to jesus being son of god. The GODDESS is a unique category among dependent beings. Similarly, Lord Shiva has a special position unique to HIM and so on. The relationship between Lord Visnu and other Devatas are also UNIQUE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 My only point is, Hinduism is much beyond the simplicity http://www.plansofmice.co.uk/sinanju/shiva.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 you see, I did not intend to be rude towards any religious believe or holy scripts. but this is all quite difficult to understand for someone who has grown up in a country with a catholic majority. but thanks again for your answers! namaste! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Yeah. I can understand. Thats one reason, why I want you to understand the diversity in hinduism, and you will also be amazed at the unity in diversity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 guess it's something one has to experience him/herself and 'live' it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 You hit the nail on the head. In a nut shell, ( I cannot generalise like that) 1.There are Viashnavas , for whom Vishnu is the most powerful god, 2. There are Shaivas for whom Shiva is the Ultimate god, 3. There are Smarthas, for whom Smrithi is ultimate. The third Category prays a variety of gods, and does not any difficulty in seeing all gods as equal. The conflict is between the first two categories ( as you would have some threads in this forum). To give you a small example, Lord Ganesh is the Son of Lord Shiva. Vaishnavites Call him Thumbikkai Azhvar and put their religious sign in his forehead, whereas he is the son of lord Shiva, who has a different religious sign. Hope you see the point. But in general, Vaishnavas are the most intolerant, Shivas to a lesser extent ans smarthas, the most tolerant of all. Keep watching this thread, and I will post a couple of links that will explain the religion in detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 well, thanks indeed for the one link you've posted. it is a great general approach to the whole topic. talking to some people made me actually realize that for some vishnu is the supreme god and for others it is shiva, I just haven't heard about the specific names the two groups have. to tell the truth, I wouldn't consider hinduism as a religion in the sense of the word, but rather a state of mind, a life style (without degrading it), it is so complex that I guess not even hindus themselves can get down to the whole of it. may I ask you what your religion is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Dear Guest1, In reality there is not conflict at all in Hinduism. An ordianry Hindu does not have any difficulty in understanding the one ness in all gods. Some hindoos even have a formless god ( Nirgun Bhakthi), but most of them are comforatble in having a form ( Sagun Bhakthi). And Vishnu, Siva, ganpahi, Shakthi, Lakshmi are all the various forms. Personally I am comfortable in worshipping gods, that are saatvic ( includes lord, Shiva, Vishnu, Muruga, Ganesh etc.)and the prayers and rituals are governed by agamas. But there are some gods, godesses that require some special rituals, called tantric worship. I dont want to vwnture into that areas, where the powers are beyond control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 "you see, I did not intend to be rude towards any religious believe or holy scripts. but this is all quite difficult to understand for someone who has grown up in a country with a catholic majority." oh it is not a big problem, it is easy to understand that if even a president, a king or a minister has an entourage, messengers, representatives and so on, god, in the same way has a minister for the weather, one for the fire, one for that planet or universe, one for the hell prison, one for each power given to living beings to act in ignorance, passion and goodness.. and the concept of god as a king with ministers and representatives is eternal.. sometimes, for various reasons, in the religions we almost forget or "blur" the supreme god, like in ancient grecian and roman religion.. sometimes, as a reaction, the supreme god (vishnu, krishna), or his reperesentative, jesus christ, has to put a religion with an empty universe and god only.. but the things go towards the right balance, and people put saints in the place of the devas.. now we are mature, keeping our religious tradition, to say the right things and to reveal the complete and detailed truth written in veda, puranas, upanishads (the homeric concept with gods very "human" in behaviour and charachter is bogus) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Catholocism is "going towards the right balance"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 yes.. why not? vedic culture, holy name, harinama is spreading all over the world, let's have faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 As you can see on this board there is conflict between different sectarian movements, esp the Vaishnavas against the Shivites. So I guess Hindus shouldn't really claim to be the most tolerant religions in the world, when they can't even tolerate each others sects. But in Hinduism, God is known as the ultimate reality (Brahman) and has both impersonal and personal aspects. The personal God is termed Ishvar and can manifest in the form of all the popular Hindu 'gods' you hear about, while the impersoanl is a formless spirit you can discover through spiritual realisation. The confusion comes in with what is termed as 'Hindu mythology', where you have the gods as friends, families or arguing with each other. In reality all these 'gods' are just one. Here is a good unbiased website to learn more www.atributetohinduism.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barney Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Any fool will know God is one but manifestation any many. Brahma, Vishnu, Sadhashiva hara, hara, hara, Mahadeva. If you cannot undestand this formula than I would say you are half baked pundit. It is up to an individual which form he wishes to focus on. All prayers and rituals to any form will reach the Omnipresent, Omnipotent and all prevailing Supreme Being we call GOD. Being born a human is the greatest gift a soul had received and it is like a doorway to the celestial world and if you do not, I repeat if you do not understand this simple formula I am sorry to say you passage will be delayed may be another few more birth before you realize the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 "Any fool will know God is one but manifestation any many. Brahma, Vishnu, Sadhashiva hara, hara, hara, Mahadeva. If you cannot undestand this formula than I would say you are half baked pundit." No, that's not the case. We may believe that but others don't. Many people are confused over this, whether you like it or not and various sectarian bodies think differently to you and think that the gods are all different, not ONE, while one god is the supreme the others are mere demigods, whereas for other ALL these gods or Devas are just manifestations of the One. I think that when the real difference of opinions of Hindus comes out. I understand that One God, many manifestations, but can't say all sects will agree with this. And I think you ought to be careful with who you call a half-baked pundit, didn't hinduism teach you tolerance and understanding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Hare Krishna, Any fool will know God is one but manifestation any many. Brahma, Vishnu, Sadhashiva hara, hara, hara, Mahadeva. If you cannot undestand this formula than I would say you are half baked pundit. It is up to an individual which form he wishes to focus on. All prayers and rituals to any form will reach the Omnipresent, Omnipotent and all prevailing Supreme Being we call GOD. Being born a human is the greatest gift a soul had received and it is like a doorway to the celestial world and if you do not, I repeat if you do not understand this simple formula I am sorry to say you passage will be delayed may be another few more birth before you realize the truth. Frankly it has been shown from Veda Samhitas that all these devatas are subordinate to Lord Visnu. This includes Lord Shiva who is subordinate even to Lord Vayu(Vayu sukta of Rig Veda). Since you cannot provide any rational argument based on Vedas you are attacking people who show evidence from Vedas. As for trinity, this is massive mis-interpretation. Any interpretation has to agree with Sruti. Sruti clearly mentions that Lord Visnu is supreme and Lord Rudra depends on Lord Visnu(Rig Veda 7:40:5). If you have a rational answer to this then please provide. Otherwise it is better for you people not to enter into a mode of denial. Barney please provide one verse from Sruti for your claims that Lord Visnu, Lord Brahma and Lord Rudra are all equal and the same GOD. If you cannot, then you should accept with decency that you do not know instead of diverting and abusing people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 http://www.himalayanacademy.com/basics/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Hare Krishna, well, thanks indeed for the one link you've posted. The link gives correct information in the sense of how Hinduism is practised in modern times. It is erroneous in the sense that it completely misinterprets the true teachings of Vedas. Often what people believe and practise contradicts what Vedas teach. For your information, a short note on Hindu scriptures. 1. Primary Scriptures(Sruti): These are considered to be authorless(Even GOD is not the author) and infallible. a. Veda Samhitas = Mantras and verses b. Brahmanas = Ritual Manual c. Aranyakas = Forest of knowledge d. Upanishads = Philosophy on Spiritual Truths as it exists in relity. 2. Secondary Scriptures: These are considered to be fallible and are considered true only if it agrees with primary scriptures. a. Puranas = History and Upa-puranas b. Smritis and Dharma Shastras it is a great general approach to the whole topic. talking to some people made me actually realize that for some vishnu is the supreme god and for others it is shiva, While people may believe what they want, the question is what do Vedas or primary scriptures teach. These scriptures show you the real teachings of Hinduism as it existed before a lot of people started misinterpreting. Vedas clearly teach that Lord Visnu is supreme. There are a lot of verses to prove this. There are lot of verses to prove that Lord Shiva(Rudra) is lower in position to Lord Visnu and even to other Gods and Goddesses. I just haven't heard about the specific names the two groups have. 1. Vaishnavas: Those who practise actual teachings of Vedas and know that Vedas teach about supremacy of Lord Visnu. 2. Shivites: Those who believe that Lord Shiva is supreme. to tell the truth, I wouldn't consider hinduism as a religion in the sense of the word, but rather a state of mind, a life style (without degrading it), it is so complex that I guess not even hindus themselves can get down to the whole of it. That is because misled Hindus do not read Vedas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 As you can see on this board there is conflict between different sectarian movements, esp the Vaishnavas against the Shivites. So I guess Hindus shouldn't really claim to be the most tolerant religions in the world, when they can't even tolerate each others sects. ••the problem is not to nullify differences to be in peace, the problem, is to be in peace even if there's differences... i find it very easy to do, i accept without problems that you have maybe opposite beliefs.. no problem But in Hinduism, God is known as the ultimate reality (Brahman) and has both impersonal and personal aspects. ••the difference is on what form is considered the "ultimate", the "source"... for me the personal is the origin of the impersonal one.. i consider the opposite a big and important difference that make me maybe more close to some non hindu religion, as christianism, than some hindu ones that are only apparently close to my beliefs The personal God is termed Ishvar and can manifest in the form of all the popular Hindu 'gods' you hear about ••this is your conception, mine is that if one studies carefully it is easy to understand when a personal form, a deva is the supreme god, his manifestation (avatara) or a jiva in an important position in the universe while the impersoanl is a formless spirit you can discover through spiritual realisation. ••all these realities, personal and impersonal, are spiritual... so you need realization to discover both ones where you have the gods as friends, families or arguing with each other. ••the problem is not to argue or to annihilate differences with a false "all is the same".. the problem is to study carefully and to learn to convive with opinion differences In reality all these 'gods' are just one. ••your undimostrated opinion... not mine, not everyone's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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