The blessed Vishnu said: "I salute Mahadeva. Salutations to Thee.

[Guest guest]

***** Who is the speaker of the Gita? Find out who Krishna is. ***********

 

Why don't you bring him to me. If you know Krishna so well then he will ;isten to you. You real child.

 

Krishna tells me every moment that He is my I and He is also everything else.

 

 

****** By the way you missed out this verse-

 

Bg.8.4

Physical nature is known to be endlessly mutable. The universe is the cosmic form of the Supreme Lord, and I am that Lord represented as the Supersoul, dwelling in the heart of every embodied being. ************

 

Thank you. But what you want to prove? You have an agenda? Does this verse over rule "akshara para brahma"?

 

 

Vasudeva is all. And THAT which is ONE but appears as if divided in beings -- the maheswara.

 

 

 

Go and take some rest.

---

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Atanu,

 

 

Does this verse over rule "akshara para brahma"?

 

 

Vasudeva is all. And THAT which is ONE but appears as if divided in beings -- the maheswara.

 

 

Can you explain the verse, where Lord Krishna clearly tells

 

Just like there was never a time I did not exist, there was never a time you or these kings did not exist.

 

This proves multiplicity of Souls, here it is Arjuna, the kings in the war etc. Also shows that there is a difference between LORD Krishna(Paramatma) and others too.

 

Combine this with other verses of Gita where Krishna tells that HE is the indweller. You will get the whole picture.

[Guest guest]

 

Suddenly Dear Atanu. I am surprised.

 

 

Dear Guest

 

Please read again and again and contemplate.

 

 

****** Just like there was never a time I did not exist, there was never a time you or these kings did not exist. ********

 

" there was never a time I did not exist, there was never a time you or these kings did not exist" does not specify that you and I exist as different atmas. Does it?

 

Atma is ONE: Self is ONE. Purushas are many.

 

 

BG 2.24 Acchedyo’yam adaahyo’yam akledyo’shoshya eva cha;

Nityah sarvagatah sthaanur achalo’yam sanaatanah.

 

 

Gita has many layers for different levels of aspirants. For devotees who see god apart from oneself, he teaches suitably, since such aspirants are not capable of handling truths which are beyond perception.

 

For example, if Krishna were to say: This Universe is ME, including this solid mountain, but I have no form and I am un-born. How would you take it? RV truly says so: “Whatever one sees is spandan in Brahman”.

 

Lord says “there was no time You and I did not exist”. He also says “You and I have had many births, and I remember them all.”

 

WE are immortal as Atma but we die repeatedly as bodies (fields).

 

 

For Yogis Krishna says “One who always abides in Self, has no work to do”. Whereas, for you and me, He says, worship me.

 

In Chapter II Lord says I do not have a form. Yet in Chapter XI, He says: “See my form as the Universe”. He also says to Arjuna “See in me whatever else you wish to see”. He also says “Kalosmi”. Does time have a form?

 

He says “I transcend three worlds”. Yet Arjuna sees three worlds in Him.

 

 

So "there was never a time I did not exist, there was never a time you or these kings did not exist" does not specify that you and I existed as different atmas.

 

Purushas (the adi-daivam) entities, enmeshed in prakriti are many but "Acchedyo’yam Nityah sarvagatah sthaanur achalo’yam sanaatanah" is ONE.

 

Same is repeated in Chapter 13 that the Param Atman exists in beings as if divided but is undivided.

 

Lord also says that see this Universe as a chain of beads. Beads are many, distinct, but the common thread is ONE.

 

KATH U IV, 14-15

 

 

14. As water descending on mountain crags

wastes its energies among the gullies,

so he who views things as separate

wastes his energies in their pursuit.

 

 

15. But as pure water poured into pure

becomes the selfsame--wholly pure,

so too becomes the self of the silent sage,

of the one, O Gautama, who has understanding.

 

 

Anyone can see many beings, One will be a fool to refute that. But these multiple beings are purushas (adi-daivam beings) enmeshed in gunas of prakriti and not Atma -- the Acchedyo’yam (the indivisible Self), which is ONE.

 

 

 

Finally

 

18.20 Sarvabhooteshu yenaikam bhaavamavyayameekshate;

Avibhaktam vibhakteshu tajjnaanam viddhi saattwikam.

 

18.20. That by which one sees the one indestructible Reality in all beings, not separate in all the separate beings—know thou that knowledge to be Sattwic (pure).

 

 

Now whether you associate yourself with purusha enmeshed in prakriti or with Self is upto you. There cannot be any fight over that. To each according to karma.

 

 

 

BRIHADARANYAKA-UPANISHAD Part 1

 

FOURTH BRAHMANA.

 

10. Verily in the beginning this was Brahman, that Brahman knew (its) Self only, saying, 'I am Brahman.' From it all this sprang. Thus, whatever Deva was awakened (so as to know Brahman), he indeed became that (Brahman); and the same with Rishis and men. The Rishi Vamadeva saw and understood it, singing, 'I was Manu (moon), I was the sun.'

 

 

Therefore now also he who thus knows that he is Brahman, becomes all this, and even the Devas cannot prevent it, for he himself is their Self.

 

Now if a man worships another deity, thinking the deity is one and he another, he does not know. He is like a beast for the Devas. For verily, as many beasts nourish a man, thus does every man nourish the Devas. If only one beast is taken away, it is not pleasant; how much more when many are taken! Therefore it is not pleasant to the Devas that men should know this.

 

 

 

A note:

 

Please do not use atma and soul as synonyms. Atma is Self -- the indivisible. Whereas Christians use soul very loosely.

[Guest guest]

******* Combine this with other verses of Gita where Krishna tells that HE is the indweller. You will get the whole picture. ************

 

If Krishna is the indweller then who are you?

 

Are there two selves in you?

 

 

 

What is your agenda? To show, paramatma of chapter 13, who is supreme brahman, param purusha, Ishwara, the controller and permitter, and Mahesvara is under control of your diety?

 

 

Om Namah Sivayya

 

[Guest guest]

 

If Krishna is the indweller then who are you?

 

Are there two selves in you?

 

 

Exactly, just like Kathaka Upanishad says, two birds dwell in a tree, one ever self satisfied and the other busy eating the fruits of the tree.

[Guest guest]

 

Atma is ONE: Self is ONE. Purushas are many.

 

 

 

Your entire post is based on false translation and false interpretation. So I do not have time to contend each point of yours.

[Guest guest]

Mata Durge Sharnam Namah

 

 

********************

If Krishna is the indweller then who are you?

 

Are there two selves in you?

--

Exactly, just like Kathaka Upanishad says, two birds dwell in a tree, one ever self satisfied and the other busy eating the fruits of the tree.

 

******************

 

Nice to know this. Now I understand.

[Guest guest]

********************

Are there two selves in you?

--

 

Exactly, just like Kathaka Upanishad says, two birds dwell in a tree, one ever self satisfied and the other busy eating the fruits of the tree.

************************

 

 

Do you mean Mundaka Up. as below?

 

MUNDAKA UPANISHAD

 

3.1.1. Two birds, inseparable friends, cling to the same tree. One of them cats the sweet fruit, the other looks on without eating.

 

3.1.2. On the same tree man sits grieving, immersed, bewildered by his own impotence (an-isa). But when he sees the other lord (isa) contented and knows his glory, then his grief passes away.

 

3.1.3. When the seer sees the brilliant maker and lord (of the world) as the Person who has his source in Brahman, then he is wise, and shaking off good and evil, he reaches the highest oneness, free from passions;

 

 

If yes, then please read 3.1.3 also.

 

 

And Katha Up. passage on rivers joining sea is cited above in this thread only.