Guest guest Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 One is not aware if one chose to follow a gurus word. If you listen to him and see his words by being free, free to think what u want yourself, then you're aware. If u chose to listen to him and then belive what he says, then you're not aware anymore. If u belive a gurus word you are cornered to repeat what u are told to repeat and belive. You will belive words, you will belive what you see, and you see what you are told to see. U don't see for yourself if u chose to listen to people, then you are told what to see, you cannot see for yourself. U don't see anything. U can see whatever you want, whatever someone tells you to see. ALl you have to do is belive what a person is telling you, but then you're in trouble. Be aware, don't let anyone take away your freedome to see everything. to see everything might be the anwser to more then you know /images/graemlins/wink.gif No truth, no greed, no hate. Now is wonderfull, the time "now" is all one can see /images/graemlins/wink.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 you have to follow someone, the society, the government, the nature... the senses. The real freedom is to choose carefully who is to serve, who gives the freedom. We have not the freedom now, we are in the jail of the material world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 You said: "you have to follow someone, the society, the government, the nature... the senses." Anwser: No, you don't have to follow all that. If you do, you shoot the gun with one bullet and u have no idea where it's gonna take you, if you're gonna kill or be lucky. Follow and you give away your freedome to be just you. Follow and you cannot see what u can se. Follow and you will be cornered. You will be suprised what u can see if you open your eyes and see everything. Tast that: to see everything. See everything and don't claim it to be right or wrong, just see it. You said: "The real freedom is to choose carefully who is to serve, who gives the freedom. We have not the freedom now, we are in the jail of the material world." Anwser: It is not freedome to repeat what someone told you like you are now. Repeat and u don't see for yourself. The jail you're in is put in you by a guru. Listen to a guru and he will tell you that there is a better place for you then this world. U belive him and you're in trouble. He was rude enough to take away your freedome to make yourself have value in what u allready have. When you value what u allready have less the your guru's words, u will not love it as we should. Dreams make us value what we have less. See what u have and see how importan it really is. WE should all do that. Respect things more and we would be able to make this paradise we live on much better for us all. The essence is to create, not to forget and sweep it under a carpet. No greed, no hate=) no questions, cause what u can't see isn't there. that's why it is called unknow /images/graemlins/wink.gif What you see is what you can see. Don't dissrespekt that and escape from it. You escape and you will do less for this world. Selfishness for yourself and yourself only will not make this paradise better my friend =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 you can be illuded to be free, but you are not free.. you are subjected to illness, and when the moment comes you have to die,,, there's a school to learn to be free... religion... and the real freedom is love, love for god. And love is to serve. If you think to be free, the death will remember you that you are a poor slave of the laws of nature Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 HareKrishna! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!I offer my humble obeisances unto Him! First of all- I have to say you are talking "NONSENSE". If we are deprived of freedom because of following a GURU, so are you. You must have gone to school...right?so in that case, you must have followed your math, english, physics,chemistry teachers.All are gurus teaching u something. sameway as that is material science this is spiritual science and we want someone to teach us. Just that you believe in material science because you believe the books to be true same way we believe Lord Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and only true bonafide Gurus can take us there. so in one way or the other, you are following some one or something or some principles, in this case you are believeing U.G.Krishnamurthy. You take his words as true and talk and we take reference from scriptures. So according to your hypothesis, following a GURU is deprivaiton of FREEDOM, then you are no better than us.You, in fact, are in a worse condition. Becuase you are following one person's words but we are following a time tested SAMPRADAYA. HareKrishna! anand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 this topic is interesting, but confusing to some. it is about freedom to think, wish, speak, and do. freedom is needed to find solutions to problems. problems can be solved if the truth becomes known. successful people are those who are able to solve theirs and others' problems. if you can solve tougher problems, you can make more money, or more people would would want to follow you. one who knows to solve every problem does not need a guru. such a person knows the truth and has means and processes to solve any problem. such a person is rare, very rare. in reality, each person can solve a few problems, but needs help of others to solve his other problems. so, we all are interdependent. when you depend on other, you trust other. we depend on doctors, pharmacists, engineers, barbers, drivers, pilots, teacher, soldier, police, maps, etc. so in that way, they are our gurus, we listen and follow them. if we do not get the desired outcome after folloing them, then we know they are not good gurus, and we would not follow them any more. one who wants to progress spiritually (i.e towards god) needs a guru. a guru is one who already is somewhat advanced than you are. a guru cannot help you advance more than he is advanced, generally. (some time a guru knows the process of advancing, but is not following the process well himself, but his disciple would follow the process well and advance more than the guru.) a good guru has no intention to rob your freedom. his interest is to advise you what freedom to not exercise, because exercising some freedoms could put you in trouble or divert you from your chosen path of progress or your goal. if you want to go closer to god, you cannot exercise all your freedom and go closer. e.g. if you want to go to NY from a place, you cannot go in every direction and reach NY. when you encouner a situation on your path and do not know what to do, then the guru might know what to do, and advise you. a good guru knows the truth usueful to you. you can realize this truth sooner or later by following his advice. the truths understood in the material mentality are different than understood in spiritual mentality. e.g. most want to get more and more money and do not want to give away anything. a saintly person, in contrast, has no hesitation to give away what ever posssession he has at any moment. charity is a virtue. more you give, the better (spiritually, not materially). so, bottom line: a guru show the right path to live which can take you closer to god. a good guru is a guide and your well wisher. he loves you. his pleasure is to see you advanced. a bad guru does not love you, but loves your free service or you donations. he want you as his slave, more or less. hope it helps. jai sri prishna! -madhav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 Post deleted by jndas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 (some time a guru knows the process of advancing, but is not following the process well himself,) and this is not a guru even if he's calling himself in this way, a guru teachs with the behaviour.. the example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 " anyone who has different ideas is a fool or ignorant. Hitler and Saddam had the same approach " so in this way you do not welcome who has different views from you calling them hitler and saddam.... what is the difference? are you respecting others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 freedom is ultimate and it lies in the unification of thought and mind . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barney Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 A real Guru will only advice and teach you the right path but the choice is yours. Whereas a bogus Guru will compel you to follow his path and brainwash you to think in his way like the Rev. Jim Jones who took the freedom and life on innocent people. There are many calling themselves Gurus and avathars but if you are sincere and open minded the real Guru will be seen by your inner eyes that we call the third eye. The atman will show you the real Guru you are seeking. Till than go investigate, mix, ask questions and let you heart tell you what you really want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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