Guest guest Report post Posted February 6, 2003 If Krishna knows everything you have done in the past, everything you are doing and everything you are going to do in the future does that mean even the times in your life you felt like you made the wrong decision is it ultimately the will of Krishna? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul108 0 Report post Posted February 6, 2003 That's pretty much the way I see it. Hare Krishna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xxvvii 0 Report post Posted February 6, 2003 Everyone longs for unexpected help, but this is a gamblers'world: both right & wrong decision with free will is to indicate the right way. Please entrust your future to careful choices more than too much help that disturbs the game. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted February 6, 2003 Ever want to do something but you know its wrong, and you wrestle with that deep down voice of consciece that is trying to talk you out of it, trying to influence you to take the high road, but you do it anyway? Was that voice Supersoul? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livingentity 0 Report post Posted February 6, 2003 What about when you are trying to decide whether or not to do something (not necessarily wrong) and you keep flip flopping - yes no yes no - I know the ultimate decision is the Supreme Lord's but what is the decision battle about? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted February 6, 2003 I think that may just be the mind. It's nature is to accept and reject. Not sure though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livingentity 0 Report post Posted February 6, 2003 Very true. The mind can be our friend and our enemy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 6, 2003 more mistakes=more learning All glories to RadheKrsna! Joy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul108 0 Report post Posted February 6, 2003 When I can't decide about something relatively trivial, I often flip a coin. If I can't decide about something more important, I still may flip a coin, but with the option of overruling the coin. A non-binding coin toss can easily raise my awareness of the decision I want to make when it's not always clear at first. Hare Krishna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 7, 2003 I think mistakes are the result of our own spiritual entanglement and not anything Krishna has imposed. I think Krishna is pleased if we learn from our mistakes but isn't planning on watching us repeat them. Krishna does not make the decision to apply one's self for us, so we are left to fend for ourselves until we reach the enlightened plateau where he is waiting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 8, 2003 Just like we know the seasons of a year ahead, the Lord too knows about the future. But whether the living entity is going to surrender to the Lord or not is still open and that is freedom is still in the hands of the individual soul. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 8, 2003 Just like we know the seasons of a year ahead, the Lord too knows about the future. But whether the living entity is going to surrender to the Lord or not is still open and that is freedom is still in the hands of the individual soul. The proof for this is there In Prabhupada's teachings. K. Jayavel. jayavel_k2000@.co.in Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 9, 2003 If Krishna knows everything that is going to happen then he surely knows who is going to surrender to him and who is not doesn't he. So even if you end up surrendering to him it is still his will isn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 9, 2003 Knowledge of an event and willing that event to take place are not the same thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Priitaa 0 Report post Posted February 12, 2003 Freewill is always part of the decision making process IMHO. We can't blame Krsihna if we make a poor choice, even if He has the ability to know ahead of time which way we shall go. If Krishna didn't want us to have freewill, He would have kept us, by force, in the Spiritual world. Who would want to live in a word devoid of genuine freedom in the first place? Lack of freedom is not really spiriutal. Therefore we are given opportunity to learn how to correctly utilize that freedom, getting repeated chances to choose between Krishna or Maya -- with what appears as some grey area's in between, tho ultimately they are not. I agree the mind plays a role in this too, but even that boils down to freewill. Krishna could force our mind to make a certain choice, but He lets us grow, as we let our children grow up. Thru our successes and mistakes we learn, we get purified, we make better spiriutal choices next time and maintain the good ones. This is my understanding, anyway. Thanks for loaning an ear. YS, Prtha dd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 12, 2003 If Krsna knows what is going to happen in future, then it does not prove that He willed it. But it does prove that it has to happen and nobody can stop it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 12, 2003 If Krsna knows what is going to happen in future, then it does not prove that He willed it. But it does prove that it has to happen and nobody can stop it. Avinash Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Priitaa 0 Report post Posted February 12, 2003 I don't know that anything "has" to happen, because Krishna does give freewill. Unless you are speaking about karma. Though as devotees of Krishna, if we are following, Prabhupada explained we have unplugged the karmic fan and it is merely winding down. This isn't even regular karma, it is called "Krishna Karma." /images/graemlins/smile.gif So we get a little slap on the hand when we should have had our hand cut off, had it been our full or regular karma in action. As devotees not only is our karma drastically decreased, but we are more attentive and knowledgeable about the lessons it is trying to show us. Anyway, we always get to choose between Maya and Krishna. This is my understanding, for what its worth. Haribol. YS, Prtha dd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Priitaa 0 Report post Posted February 12, 2003 Someone just sent this to me in an email and I thought it related to the topic here regarding how choices, karma, and especially Krishna karma, is trying to show us various life lessons and spiriutal lessons in order to advance. While it may not be perfect as a representation of Krishna consciousness, it runs a close second. Hope the devotees on this forum like it. YS, Prtha dd ---- BEAUTIFUL PRAYER I asked God to take away my habit. God said, No. It is not for me to take away, but for you to give it up. I asked God to make my handicapped child whole. God said, No. His spirit is whole, his body is only temporary I asked God to grant me patience. God said, No. Patience is a byproduct of tribulations; it isn't granted, it is learned. I asked God to give me happiness. God said, No. I give you blessings; Happiness is up to you. I asked God to spare me pain. God said, No. Suffering draws you apart from worldly cares and brings you closer to Me. I asked God to make my spirit grow. God said, No. You must grow on your own!, but I will prune you to make you fruitful. I ask God to help me LOVE others, as much as He loves me. God said...Ahhhh, finally you have the idea. May God Bless You. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Avinash 0 Report post Posted February 13, 2003 If somebody knows everything that is going to happen, then we can not have free will. Of course we feel that we have free will, but that is not the same as really having free will. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 13, 2003 I don't think that Krsna's forknowledge of our actions comprimises the free will we have. It just means he knows how we will use it. He knows the extent of our conditioning and our karma. He knows the situations that will present themselves to us and further how we, the conscious jiva, will percieve that through the conditioning we have. Yet still we are free to choose our own course of action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gHari 0 Report post Posted February 14, 2003 Mundane logic and Sri Krsna are often incompatible. <table border=0 cellpadding="3" cellspacing="3" width="100%"><td width="25%" align="center" valign ="center"><img src=http://home.primus.ca/~caitanya/syama.jpg width=145 height=237> </td><td valign ="center" width="75%">Krsna somehow arranges our separate existences for a good reason, namely His pleasure. Free will must be taken as axiomatic. If we find a paradox with our mundane logic that suggests that there really is no free will, then we must examine our premises, assumptions, and even the 'logic' process itself. Free will is a given. We do not know just how Krsna knows the future. We seem to assume that He deduces it somehow, like a computer. We can only see one side of a block, yet Krsna knows that the unseen side of the block is painted red. How? Certainly it cannot be deduced. I have speculated on this question before that Krsna can see the future, when it actually happens, as it actually happens. Our own free will shall produce the future, but that future whatever it may be can be seen (known) by Sri Krsna now. Total cognition. Cent percent cit; not to mention absolute sat and ananda. So cool, our sac-cid-ananda-vigraha Lord Syamasundara !</td></table> gHari Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Priitaa 0 Report post Posted February 14, 2003 It is a mind boggler - to understand how, if someone knows all that will happen, that we still have freewill. Of course I must clarify, I am not speaking of the nondeovtee who is living a karmic life, but of the initiated (or serious) devotee who is chanting 16 rounds daily, following the 4 regs, rising early for Mongala and the whole morning program, spending their entire day serving and preaching somehow or other, winding it up with evening arotika and Krishna Book. /images/graemlins/smile.gif How many of us are doing that? My guess is we are all struggling. Those who are not doing it are, to various degrees, under karmic laws. However, let's say everyone is doing all of this. In which case, how can such a person/devotee have freewill if Krishna knows their future? First I want to recap that we always have freewill to chose betewen Krishna or Maya, then add that we are also always under the illusion of MayaMaya or YogaMaya. Secondly, with our mundane minds we can never understand fully how the Lord works. He can know things, and simultaneously not know them. For example. I remember a story Acutyananda once told. He said in India the question was asked by Mayavadi's, "If Krishna is God, and God can do anything, then if He chose NOT to lift Goverdhana Hill, could He make it heavier than Himself? Could He NOT lift it?" The Vaisnava's replied, "Yes." To which the Mayavadi happily jumped all over that one and said, "Uh huh! Your God can no longer lift Goverdhana Hill, so He is no longer God!" Then the Vaisnava's casually replied, "But then, He will lift it." /images/graemlins/smile.gif Confusing? To try to understand God with our pea brain IS confusinng. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Your fallen servant, Prtha dd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Priitaa 0 Report post Posted February 14, 2003 I think that Krsna's forknowledge of our actions comprimises the free will we have. It just means he knows how we will use it. He knows the extent of our conditioning and our karma. He knows the situations that will present themselves to us and further how we, the conscious jiva, will percieve that through the conditioning we have. Yet still we are free to choose our own course of action. Just wanted to say, good point! Thank you. It reminds me of raising my children. Sometimes I would question their choices. Matter of fact, some of them downright got to me! But then it turned out to be a good choice, not bad. So here I was, the all knowing parent, not knowing. Of course God always knows. However the example is still there, since He is our loving parent, that He gives ---- GIVES us freewill. We may not karmically have it, we may not deserve it, but He can grant it when He wants. In addition, it is through following Prabhupada's program that we achieve genuine freedom. And gHari, lovely post! I am in agreement and lilke the way you presented it. Thank you. YS, Prtha dd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xxvvii 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2003 If somebody knows everything that is going to happen, then we can not have free will. Of course we feel that we have free will, but that is not the same as really having free will. --------- Usually you're insatiable, while in trouble you're rejective for it. For example. I remember a story Acutyananda once told. He said in India the question was asked by Mayavadi's, "If Krishna is God, and God can do anything, then if He chose NOT to lift Goverdhana Hill, could He make it heavier than Himself? Could He NOT lift it?" The Vaisnava's replied, "Yes." To which the Mayavadi happily jumped all over that one and said, "Uh huh! Your God can no longer lift Goverdhana Hill, so He is no longer God!" Then the Vaisnava's casually replied, "But then, He will lift it." --------- Stupid q&a. God is there forever. Athing. is over there forever. Q.s neither create nor destroy athing. nor reach athing.'s essence. O.Z. has a balloon & the girl needs the helps on her own feet, which is all the story means to convey. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
