I cannot accept Srila Prabhupada as my spiritual father.

[Guest guest]

I’m a soul and trough the body I type for you my brother soul trough the eyes to read.

 

Amongst souls – The Supreme soul is the Highest on high in stage. He resides in the highest on high abode in peace and silence. He is the Father of souls.

 

In the Gita it’s written God speaks. He must have needed a mouth. The one who listened must have needed the ears. God spoke. Did he write? Some Human being must have written down the Gita – after having listened, so that we can have it nowadays. When did God spoke the Gita? To whom? Trough him the new world must have been created. God created the world. When? When the old world reached a state of total degradation he came to create a new world out of the old. To transform Hell into Heaven. That is why he is called Heavenly God the Father. God creates Heaven and human beings create Hell. Trough the Gita written by human beings the world became hell. Trough the true Gita God created the new world that is the true world. He himself comes to say: children the Kingdom of Heaven is your God fatherly birthright.

 

He has come onto the battlefield in the eve of the great war of Mahabharat to speak the Gita. When will this war be fought? When will this Kaliyug end? Wake up! Do we have to wait some more thousands of years? Will you sleep in the deep sleep of Kumbakharna when the war is fought or will you choose God at your side? There is no greater happiness than to lead a righteous war. If we can know he has come for us souls to take us back home with him once again, one will run to Him to stick to him. Only he is the bestower of salvation.

 

If God was omnipresent why go here and there to worship? If God is in me why not worship me? He has come to take away the sorrow...He has come to take away the sorrow and give happiness, to change hell into heaven. He has come with heaven on the palm of his hand still we call him omnipresent. It is not fame to be omnipresent but defamation. Will you call your father omnipresent? He is never called the bestower of sorrow. It is not he that is omnipresent, but degradation is omnipresent. He is present in one only.

 

A human being will have a Father in a human form. An elephant will have a father in the form of an elephant. We are souls. So is he. We souls play a role through the body. He plays a role of the Supreme soul trough the body of the one who is called the father of the human beings. One can say I’m the guru of the whole world but one only can say I’m everyone’s father because it is a relationship. Others are brothers. I cannot accept Srila Prabhupada as my spiritual father.

 

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada is the only saviour for modern man. There is no other saviour.

 

He made the white cow eating elephants into true followers of God who now wake up at 4am, chant for 2 hours min, practice auterities, respect all living beings, and have the highest spiritual kowledge which come from Srila Prabhupada's books. Drunkards, gamblers, drugies, and killers (meat eaters) were transformed into god loving humans by Srila Prabhupada. Without him the white elephants would still be rats, killing for a living.

 

The alternative is to wake up late, eat anything that moves, go to the church on sunday and ask for the daily bread, ignore God and worship a man, and while there also ask for forgivess for the sins commited during the week. Then repeat week, after week. Will this save you?

 

Srila Prabhupada is the only saviour.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna and all glories to Srila Prabhupada

 

Dear Sir,

it is quite alright if you do not want to accept SP as your father. What is important, however, is that you turn your life towards God. You may read the Gita As It Is, which is the best translation of the Gita that i have read. All the issues that you have raised have been explained wonderfully in the Bhagavad Gita by Lord Krishna, and elaborated upon by the super-excellent purports by Srila Prabhupada.

 

Haribol

[Guest guest]

Dear sirs,

 

It's new knowledge that i've learned.

 

Please, excuse my ignorance, but i would like to ask if Srila Prabhupada is still in his mortal body. If he is not than how would he save me. I don't know him. If i'm to accept his greatness based on stories of praise of the ones who has been his contemporary or observe the results of his actions to judge his greatness it is like observing the present condition of the world accepring God has created this. No definetely God must have created Heaven and it is he only that can recreate it. Great sould may come to repair the world here and there, but creation is his task only and noone else can complete it.

 

I suppose it has been Gita's greatness that has attracted people to change their lifes. So the seremoniser of the Gita must be the true guru.

 

One can wake up at 4 and chant, but not all do this. If Srila Prabhupada has been able to change some few souls who is entitled to change all the soul who are considered by the whole world as hopleless cases?

[Guest guest]

Just read his books and follow his instructions and you too will be saved.

 

The alternative is a wasted life which will result in hell after this life.

 

Srila Prabhupada is still alive in his books, audio CDs, and DVDs.

[Guest guest]

Saved from what?

 

How can a man save one man from another?

 

I am sure your teacher did many nice things but who is the highest of all teachers?

 

God.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna and all glories to Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga

 

Dear Sir,

you are quite right - the highest teacher of all if God. We Gaudiya Vaishnavas believe that the highest teacher, or, the "highest" guru, was Lord Caitanya, who was Supreme Lord Krishna incarnate.

 

Now, the problem is, to reach the "highest guru", one needs the help of a guru in our material world. The guru in this world helps us reach the guru in the spiritual world. Srila Prabhupada was that guru for many of us. Even though he may not be physically alive on this earth, he lives through his books, lectures, etc.

 

Haribol

[Guest guest]

"saved from what?"

 

saved from the endless cycle of birth and death, saved from the endless cycle of mysery in this material world. The biggest point that we have to understand is that we are factually unhappy in this world. There is absolutely not even a pinch of happiness here.

 

Hare Krishna

[Guest guest]

I agree the happiness is very temporary indeed.

 

In my country people live in very expensive homes, we have all you can eat buffets etc. Yet many are not happy.

 

Do you believe that we can elminate the re-births?

 

What do you think happens to those who acheive this?

[Guest guest]

Salvation is from sorrow. Only one is never affected by happiness and sorrow. He is the supreme soul who never comes into the cycle of birth and rebirth.

 

Definetely a guru is needed in corporeal form to guide us souls back home again. He is called one satguru /true guru/ akalmurth /whom death cannot eat/.

[Guest guest]

Why should i go to hell in my next birth after i'm already present in hell in my present birth.

[Guest guest]

Omshanti.

Learned guest wrote:

---------------------------

saved from the endless cycle of birth and death, saved from the endless cycle of mysery in this material world. The biggest point that we have to understand is that we are factually unhappy in this world. There is absolutely not even a pinch of happiness here.

---------------------------

 

I wish to know that if we can attain complete peace, happiness through the remembrance of God and realization of self while living in this world itself then why should we aim for liberation from the cycle of birth and death. And how does one know whether one has achieved liberation from this cycle or not? Nobody, who is supposed to have been liberated has returned to tell us his/her experience of liberation. Then how do we know if a particular soul has actually attained salvation or has taken rebirth?

With regards,

ON Godly service,

Roohani Sevadhari,

Prajapita Brahmakumar

[Guest guest]

If it was possible to be liberated form the cycle of birth and rebirth something which has been there -the soul will vanish. Even phisics says nothing is created or anihilated. Souls has always been there, so has been the world. It is possible to leave the body in happiness and be born in happiness. However we have to stay in the body to change from human beings into deities. One supreme soul has come tho change human beings into deities.

[sumedh 0]

Hare Krishna

 

 

I wish to know that if we can attain complete peace, happiness through the remembrance of God and realization of self while living in this world itself then why should we aim for liberation from the cycle of birth and death.

 

 

 

Liberation means Self realization and God realization.

 

 

Nobody, who is supposed to have been liberated has returned to tell us his/her experience of liberation. Then how do we know if a particular soul has actually attained salvation or has taken rebirth?

 

 

 

This is only your imagination. Moreover, this reasoning fits better for Lekhraj.

[sumedh 0]

Seems like the bhrama-kumaras have taken a particular liking to this site. Too much time on their hands ...

 

 

If it was possible to be liberated form the cycle of birth and rebirth something which has been there -the soul will vanish.

 

 

 

Soul will "vanish" from the material world into the spiritual realm.

[Guest guest]

Sure the soul will vanish in the spiritual realm, but will come again in the material world to play the part. It's a cycle. No world /material/spiritual/ is ever created or will cease to exist. If a soul would vanish to never return the sycle would stop. It's an accurate drama that goes on for the soul as an actor in the body to fall down and be uplifted by the supreme soul trough knowledge. Indeed will reach the spiritual realm where no bodyconciousness exists.

[sumedh 0]

Hare Krishna

 

 

Sure the soul will vanish in the spiritual realm, but will come again in the material world to play the part. It's a cycle.

 

 

 

Material world is created/destroyed in cycles. Spiritual world is not -- it is Eternal realm where there is no past or future, only the undivided eternal present.

 

From Srimad Bhagavad-Gita

 

8.15

mam upetya punar janma

duhkhalayam asasvatam

napnuvanti mahatmanah

samsiddhim paramam gatah

 

SYNONYMS

mam -- Me; upetya -- achieving; punah -- again; janma -- birth; duhkha-alayam -- place of miseries; asasvatam -- temporary; na -- never; apnuvanti -- attain; maha-atmanah -- the great souls; samsiddhim -- perfection; paramam -- ultimate; gatah -- having achieved.

 

TRANSLATION

After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogis in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection.

 

 

8.16

a-brahma-bhuvanal lokah

punar avartino 'rjuna

mam upetya tu kaunteya

punar janma na vidyate

 

SYNONYMS

a-brahma-bhuvanat -- up to the Brahmaloka planet; lokah -- the planetary systems; punah -- again; avartinah -- returning; arjuna -- O Arjuna; mam -- unto Me; upetya -- arriving; tu -- but; kaunteya -- O son of Kunti; punah janma -- rebirth; na -- never; vidyate -- takes place.

 

TRANSLATION

From the highest planet in the material world down to the lowest, all are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place. But one who attains to My abode, O son of Kunti, never takes birth again.

 

 

8.20

paras tasmat tu bhavo 'nyo

'vyakto 'vyaktat sanatanah

yah sa sarveshu bhuteshu

nasyatsu na vinasyati

 

SYNONYMS

parah -- transcendental; tasmat -- to that; tu -- but; bhavah -- nature; anyah -- another; avyaktah -- unmanifest; avyaktat -- to the unmanifest; sanatanah -- eternal; yah sah -- that which; sarveshu -- all; bhuteshu -- manifestation; nasyatsu -- being annihilated; na -- never; vinasyati -- is annihilated.

 

TRANSLATION

Yet there is another unmanifest nature, which is eternal and is transcendental to this manifested and unmanifested matter. It is supreme and is never annihilated. When all in this world is annihilated, that part remains as it is.

 

 

8.21

avyakto 'kshara ity uktas

tam ahuh paramam gatim

yam prapya na nivartante

tad dhama paramam mama

 

SYNONYMS

avyaktah -- unmanifested; aksharah -- infallible; iti -- thus; uktah -- is said; tam -- that; ahuh -- is known; paramam -- the ultimate; gatim -- destination; yam -- which; prapya -- gaining; na -- never; nivartante -- come back; tat -- that; dhama -- abode; paramam -- supreme; mama -- My.

 

TRANSLATION

That which the Vedantists describe as unmanifest and infallible, that which is known as the supreme destination, that place from which, having attained it, one never returns -- that is My supreme abode.

 

 

 

 

you said:

 

If a soul would vanish to never return the sycle would stop.

 

 

 

The cycle will not stop, but not because the souls will return. It will not stop because the Lord is infinite and consequently there are infinite vibbhinnamsas viz. the infinitesemal jiva souls.

[Guest guest]

Dear sir,

 

Thank you for sweet quotations. I'm not to give clarifications just to insist on possibility for wrong interpretation. E.G. not return to the miserly world may mean one will return to a beautifull world.

Just think of a runner who runs arround in the stadium. At first he is full of power, later he weakens and finally the run is over. However it cannot be said the aim of his running is to stop. Surely one will need rest as we souls after running arround the cycle got tired. Rest is Ok. After resting in the supreme abode, one is to enjoy heaven on earth and all of this whilst the soul is in the body. Isn't it miraculous?

[Guest guest]

It has been said purity is highest power. However what a purity is to cast oneself away from the world. Definetely purity would be possible in the world.

[sumedh 0]

Hare Krishna

 

guest said:

 

E.G. not return to the miserly world may mean one will return to a beautifull world.

 

 

 

which is the Eternal abode of the Lord. Why is there any confusion in this regard? You think that Lord's abode is devoid of "beauty" or varigedness while the exact opposite is true; there are so many descriptions of the Lord's abode which describe how the most beautiful things of material world are insignificant in comparison to it.

 

then you said:

 

Just think of a runner who runs arround in the stadium. At first he is full of power, later he weakens and finally the run is over. However it cannot be said the aim of his running is to stop. Surely one will need rest as we souls after running arround the cycle got tired. Rest is Ok. After resting in the supreme abode, one is to enjoy heaven on earth and all of this whilst the soul is in the body.

 

 

 

It is your misconception that the soul rests or needs any rest. The Eternal abode of the Lord is completely transcendental sat-cid-ananda where the jiva souls eternally engage with the Lord in Transcendental bliss in their original svarupa; the tiring of the body etc. are only in the material world while the soul itself never gets tired nor needs rest nor is inactive for even a moment in the spiritual realm. The resting and coming back is only goes on as long as the soul is enclosed in the subtle body in this material world. More quotes in this regard will not be useful at this point. Suffice to say that the material worlds are only a faint perverted reflections of the spiritual realm which is the region of true beauty.

[Guest guest]

There are tree abodes. One is incorporeal where souls stay stable in peace. Second is subtle and third is material. If it is a cycle and the soul finally goes to the supreme abode, than this should be the abode where the soul initially comes from. Land of Krishna can be called beautifull but it should be on earth /land/. The supreme abode cannot even be called a land. There is no question of beauty and ugliness, happindess and sorrow in the supreme abode. If the Lord too were subservient to matter to become ugly from beautifull and experience happiness and sorrow what kind of a Lord is he. I used the analogy with the sportsman to say everything passes trough stages. Only one Supreme soul does not.

[Guest guest]

Omshanti.

Learned Sumedh ji wrote: which is the Eternal abode of the Lord. Why is there any confusion in this regard? You think that Lord's abode is devoid of "beauty" or varigedness while the exact opposite is true; there are so many descriptions of the Lord's abode which describe how the most beautiful things of material world are insignificant in comparison to it.

 

Where is this beautiful world of your Lord. Has anyone seen it? Muslims and Christians also describe a heaven that exists beyond the seven skies. Is your heaven the same as the heaven described by the Muslims and Christians? Are the heavens of Muslims, Christians and Hindus different? Why do we sing - swarga yahaan, narka yahaan, iskay siva jaana kahaan i.e. heaven is here, hell is here, where else do we go? India was once a golden bird, i.e heaven, but the entire world has become a hell now. God has come to transform it into a heaven once again.

 

With regards,

On Godly service,

Roohani sevadhari,

Prajapita Brahmakumar.

 

 

 

[sumedh 0]

Hare Krishna

 

 

There are tree abodes. One is incorporeal where souls stay stable in peace. Second is subtle and third is material. If it is a cycle and the soul finally goes to the supreme abode, than this should be the abode where the soul initially comes from. Land of Krishna can be called beautifull but it should be on earth /land/.

 

 

 

These are your speculations. This is what the Lord says:

Bhagavad-Gita 8.15

 

mam upetya punar janma

duhkhalayam asasvatam

napnuvanti mahatmanah

samsiddhim paramam gatah

 

After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogis in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection.

 

 

 

This world is "dukhalayam". Why? Because the four stages of birth, disease, old age and death are everywhere which are a source of misery. In addition the three kinds of material afflictions (adhyAtmika, Adibhautika, Adidaivika) are always troubling the jivas. The material world is a mismatch for the spiritual self. The origin of the jiva souls is in the tatastha region i.e. the marginal region between the spiritual and material worlds, which is not a stable position and the jivas go to either the material world or to the spiritual world.

 

So there are indeed three abodes: spiritual, material and marginal. But the marginal one is not a resting place. The way you categorize it, there are 14 levels of material and subtle lokas in the material worlds while in the spiritual world there are unlimited spiritual "planets" each of which is infinite. In the spiritual world there is also the siddha-loka which is the effulgence of the Lord outside of the spiritual "planets".

 

 

There is no question of beauty and ugliness, happindess and sorrow in the supreme abode. If the Lord too were subservient to matter to become ugly from beautifull and experience happiness and sorrow what kind of a Lord is he.

 

 

 

There are no dual qualities in the spiritual realm; only bliss and its infinite variegatedness. The nature of Lord and His abode is sat-cid-ananda which incidently does not mean nothing or zero or "nirakaar". Why is this so difficult to understand? Are you always so dense.

 

roohani sevadhari said:

 

Where is this beautiful world of your Lord. Has anyone seen it? Muslims and Christians also describe a heaven that exists beyond the seven skies. Is your heaven the same as the heaven described by the Muslims and Christians? Are the heavens of Muslims, Christians and Hindus different? Why do we sing - swarga yahaan, narka yahaan, iskay siva jaana kahaan i.e. heaven is here, hell is here, where else do we go?

 

 

 

Read the previous quotes regarding the nature of the Lord's abode e.g. it is Eternal etc. which is not the case with the material world. This is the version of the scriptures accepted by all authorities whose words have been tested by millions of humans. Many, many devotees have seen the abode of the Lord which is still manifest to the pure devotees in this life itself. There are many accounts of this but of no relevance to you for you would not be interested.

 

The heaven mentioned in christians/muslims is not beyond the seven skies, but from the descriptions seems to be one of bhuvah/svah lokas; the kingdom of God mentioned in Bible could be same as vaikuntha but it is not possible that normal christians/muslims would go to heavens or vaikuntha because of the animal killing they indulge in. And i do not sing the song you mentioned which is from a movie, so the rest of post has no relevance to me.

 

So the abode of Lord (tad vishnoh paramam padam: Rg Veda) is the ultimate destination for a jiva which is eternal. Of course, in the gaudiya theology the ultimate is unadulterated causeless devotional service to the Lord independent of where the devotee is. Take it or leave it; do not bore us with your speculations.

[sumedh 0]

There are pramanas (from vedic scriptures) for each and every statement i wrote. But there is no point in presenting them to you.

 

[Guest guest]

Yes, the subtle world is not a resting place and is a middle stage.

 

When the Lord is said sat it mens truth. Is there falsehood in the supreme abode? Chit means living. Is there death in the supreme abode? Anand is bliss so is there misery in the supreme abode? The point is all these qualities can be shown here on earth.

 

Really soul would not return to a temporary world but to the land of immortality.

 

When should this supreme abode be reached? Before leaving the body or after leaving the body?

 

It is just that the gita you quote may not be correct. God may have spoken it but Human being must have written it and falsified it, putting the name of Krishna instead of Shiva. Now the Gita seremoniser Shiva has come to speak the gita and he sais there is no possibility of attainig eternal liberation and the soul has to play a part. However the better new is that a new world will be there where miseries will not be there.