Humans have the ability to be the supreme controller

[Guest guest]

Well that got your attention. This is a verse I found in the Uddhava geeta.

 

27. A person who perfectly meditates on Me acquires My nature of being the supreme ruler and controller. His order, like Mine, can never be frustrated by any means.

 

-Uddhava Geeta Ch 15

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

A person who perfectly meditates on Me acquires My nature of being the supreme ruler and controller. His order, like Mine, can never be frustrated by any means.

 

It says we acquire the same nature as Krishna who IS the Supreme Controller. A devotees is never frustrated in his endevours either, which is said at the last sentence.

-

 

You know this is why we read Bhagavad-gita 1st. Uddhava-Gita is very advanced lol!!!!!!!

[Guest guest]

Thanks but I have read and listened to BG many hundreds of times. The verse says the person acquires his nature OF BEING supreme ruler and controller. It also says his ORDER, not just his endeavours...

 

This is quite different from saying He acquires my nature who am the supreme controller.

 

It says he acquires my nature OF BEING.... and these are the operative words.

 

 

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

 

A person who perfectly meditates on Me acquires My nature of being the supreme ruler and controller. His order, like Mine, can never be frustrated by any means.

____________

 

 

Dandavats, hare krishna

Nature is Krishna spiritual world. Thats what you get. What does Nature mean? And what does meditate mean? Why would Krishna say He is God, then say somebody else can become God. How stupid can you get. Only a complete fool would say this. Not saying your a fool or anything. Ok maybe I am a little. [don't be offended] ..

 

Ok Maybe be a little offended. That's ok. Now in your anger, tell me what the verse says. Bet is looks really different. What mode of nature are you in now?

 

Krishna is saying by thinking of Him, you go to Him, in the spiritual world. As far as Supreme Ruler and Controller is, that's Uddahva-Gita, I don't know why your reading this. Its very advanced, you don't seem to even understand the concept of God, Jiva, Nature etc. May Lord Nityananda Mercy be with you. Gaura-Nitai!

 

Your servant

pankaja_dasa

[Guest guest]

Well actually no I am not offended in the slightest. It was quite humorous actually. The progressive unfolding of your honesty is quite refreshing ("How stupid can you get. Only a complete fool would say this. Not saying your a fool or anything. Ok maybe I am a little. [don't be offended] ..") In future feel free be as emotional as you like don't stiffle your emotions on my account that is not healthy, and dont worry about how you will appear because you think I might take it as an insult. It really doesn't bother me.

 

After all.. All men are forced to act by the impulses born of material nature therefore none should think himself the doer not even for a moment. Whom am I to get angry with? It is only beginningless action unfolding. Krsna says HE is the only doer. Can I ever be angry with him?

 

What is said is quite obvious. I am not trying to twist the Krsna's words in any way whatsoever. I am simply reading what is quite obvious.

 

The verse does not say you go to him or live with him or anything of this sort. IT is very clear it says the person ACQUIRES the NATURE OF BEING the supreme ruler and controller. The next sentence where he says his ORDER can never be frustrated confirms this is the actual meaning. I am not going to offer an explanation as to WHY he said it though. but there is no doubt as the verse shows that he DID say it. Moreover your interprettation would not fit the context of his discussions with Uddhava since this verse comes in discussion of the attinment of siddhis. Please read the relevant section before trying to debate about the meaning, then you will see that Bhagavan was certainly not talking about going to the spiritual world.

 

 

[Guest guest]

"As far as Supreme Ruler and Controller is, that's Uddahva-Gita, I don't know why your reading this. "

 

There is no harm in saying you don't know.

This verse obviously goes against everything you knew and believed so it is naturally difficult to accept. Try to read between the lines.

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

Ok I am happy your find me refesrhing. You won't find any contradictions in Krishna words. I tried to explain already what Nature means. You talking everything like its easy to understand krishna words. Even great Philosphers find it difficult to understand even one verse in Gita. You know and I know it, you need to be a devotee to understand. Lord Krishna spoke Gita to Lord Uddhuva [His devotee, whom He [krishna] regards as dear to Him as even Shambu, Lakmi,].

 

 

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

"As far as Supreme Ruler and Controller is, that's Uddahva-Gita, I don't know why your reading this. "

 

There is no harm in saying you don't know.

This verse obviously goes against everything you knew and believed so it is naturally difficult to accept. Try to read between the lines.

 

 

 

I know what it means. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Your reading outside of the line. Ps. Are you a devotee of Krishna /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Guest guest]

Hi

 

Your explanation of nature does not fit the verse nor the context of what krsna was saying to Uddhava. Let me attach some of the surrounding verses and you will see why.

 

This was the question asked by Uddhava

 

1. Sri Uddhava said: My dear Lord Acyuta, by what process can mystic perfection be achieved, and what is the nature of such perfection? How many mystic perfections are there? Please explain these things to me. Indeed, You are the bestower of all mystic perfections.

 

10. One who worships Me in My atomic form pervading all subtle elements, fixing his mind on that alone, obtains the mystic perfection called anima.

 

11. One who absorbs his mind in the particular form of the mahat-tattva and thus meditates upon Me as the Supreme Soul of the total material existence achieves the mystic perfection called mahima. By further absorbing the mind in the situation of each individual element such as the sky, air, fire, and so on, one progressively acquires the greatness of each material element.

 

16. The yogi who places his mind in My form of Narayana, known as the fourth factor, full of all opulences, becomes endowed with My nature and thus obtains the mystic perfection called vasita.

 

17. One who fixes his pure mind on Me in My manifestation as the impersonal Brahman obtains the greatest happiness, wherein all his desires are completely fulfilled

 

25. The yogi who desires to enjoy in the pleasure gardens of the demigods should meditate on the purified mode of goodness, which is situated within Me, and then the heavenly women, generated from the mode of goodness, will approach him in airplanes.

 

26. A yogi who has faith in Me, absorbing his mind in Me and knowing that My purpose is always fulfilled, will always achieve his purpose by the very means he has determined to follow.

 

Verse 27 is the verse in question as you can see your earlier comments regarding not being hindered are covered in verse 26 and is independent of this verse.

 

28. A yogi who has purified his existence by devotion to Me and who thus expertly knows the process of meditation obtains knowledge of past, present and future. He can therefore see the birth and death of himself and others.

 

29. Just as the bodies of aquatics cannot be injured by water, similarly, the body of a yogi whose consciousness is pacified by devotion to Me and who is fully developed in yoga science cannot be injured by fire, sun, water, poison, and so forth

 

------------------------

 

I hope you can see now that what you are saying simply does not fit the context of this part of his discourse.

 

When I said read between the lines, I did not mean between the lines of the verse. I meant the situation. Keep a constant awareness of mind, look at how action unfolds.

 

"In you in me and everywhere there is but the one Vishnu, mistakenly viewing me with a sense of difference you are ill disposed toward me. Try to see in all beings only the Vishnu who is your own self. Give up your false and egoistic separateness from other beings, cultivate a sense of kinship unity and oneness with all"

-Bhaja Govindam

 

"Are you a devotee of Krishna "

 

Why else would I be reading both geetas and Bhagavatam?

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

I am not sure whos Translation you are reading, maybe that is the Problem. This is one by Iskcon:-

See verse 45 /images/graemlins/smile.gif

http://srimadbhagavatam.com/11/14/en

 

I already tried to explain the verse in question. But you saying to me to read between the lines. You refuce to listen to what I am saying..

 

Chapter 14: Lord Krishna Explains the Yoga System to Sri Uddhava

 

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Srimad Bhagavatam

 

SB 11.14 Summary

 

SB 11.14.1: Sri Uddhava said: My dear Krishna, the learned sages who explain Vedic literature recommend various processes for perfecting one's life. Considering these varieties of viewpoint, my Lord, please tell me whether all these processes are equally important, or whether one of them is supreme.

 

SB 11.14.2: My dear Lord, You have clearly explained the process of unalloyed devotional service, by which a devotee removes all material association from his life, enabling him to fix his mind on You.

 

SB 11.14.3: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: By the influence of time, the transcendental sound of Vedic knowledge was lost at the time of annihilation. Therefore, when the subsequent creation took place, I spoke the Vedic knowledge to Brahma because I Myself am the religious principles enunciated in the Vedas.

 

SB 11.14.4: Lord Brahma spoke this Vedic knowledge to his eldest son, Manu, and the seven great sages headed by Bhrigu Muni then accepted the same knowledge from Manu.

 

SB 11.14.5-7: From the forefathers headed by Bhrigu Muni and other sons of Brahma appeared many children and descendants, who assumed different forms as demigods, demons, human beings, Guhyakas, Siddhas, Gandharvas, Vidyadharas, Caranas, Kindevas, Kinnaras, Nagas, Kimpurushas, and so on. All of the many universal species, along with their respective leaders, appeared with different natures and desires generated from the three modes of material nature. Therefore, because of the different characteristics of the living entities within the universe, there are a great many Vedic rituals, mantras and rewards.

 

SB 11.14.8: Thus, due to the great variety of desires and natures among human beings, there are many different theistic philosophies of life, which are handed down through tradition, custom and disciplic succession. There are other teachers who directly support atheistic viewpoints.

 

SB 11.14.9: O best among men, the intelligence of human beings is bewildered by My illusory potency, and thus, according to their own activities and whims, they speak in innumerable ways about what is actually good for people.

 

SB 11.14.10: Some say that people will be happy by performing pious religious activities. Others say that happiness is attained through fame, sense gratification, truthfulness, self-control, peace, self-interest, political influence, opulence, renunciation, consumption, sacrifice, penance, charity, vows, regulated duties or strict disciplinary regulation. Each process has its proponents.

 

SB 11.14.11: All the persons I have just mentioned obtain temporary fruits from their material work. Indeed, the meager and miserable situations they achieve bring future unhappiness and are based on ignorance. Even while enjoying the fruits of their work, such persons are filled with lamentation.

 

SB 11.14.12: O learned Uddhava, those who fix their consciousness on Me, giving up all material desires, share with Me a happiness that cannot possibly be experienced by those engaged in sense gratification.

 

SB 11.14.13: One who does not desire anything within this world, who has achieved peace by controlling his senses, whose consciousness is equal in all conditions and whose mind is completely satisfied in Me finds only happiness wherever he goes.

 

SB 11.14.14: One who has fixed his consciousness on Me desires neither the position or abode of Lord Brahma or Lord Indra, nor an empire on the earth, nor sovereignty in the lower planetary systems, nor the eightfold perfection of yoga, nor liberation from birth and death. Such a person desires Me alone.

 

SB 11.14.15: My dear Uddhava, neither Lord Brahma, Lord Siva, Lord Sankarshana, the goddess of fortune nor indeed My own self are as dear to Me as you are.

 

SB 11.14.16: With the dust of My devotees' lotus feet I desire to purify the material worlds, which are situated within Me. Thus, I always follow the footsteps of My pure devotees, who are free from all personal desire, rapt in thought of My pastimes, peaceful, without any feelings of enmity, and of equal disposition everywhere.

 

SB 11.14.17: Those who are without any desire for personal gratification, whose minds are always attached to Me, who are peaceful, without false ego and merciful to all living entities, and whose consciousness is never affected by opportunities for sense gratification -- such persons enjoy in Me a happiness that cannot be known or achieved by those lacking such detachment from the material world.

 

SB 11.14.18: My dear Uddhava, if My devotee has not fully conquered his senses, he may be harassed by material desires, but because of his unflinching devotion for Me, he will not be defeated by sense gratification.

 

SB 11.14.19: My dear Uddhava, just as a blazing fire turns firewood into ashes, similarly, devotion unto Me completely burns to ashes sins committed by My devotees.

 

SB 11.14.20: My dear Uddhava, the unalloyed devotional service rendered to Me by My devotees brings Me under their control. I cannot be thus controlled by those engaged in mystic yoga, Sankhya philosophy, pious work, Vedic study, austerity or renunciation.

 

SB 11.14.21: Only by practicing unalloyed devotional service with full faith in Me can one obtain Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. I am naturally dear to My devotees, who take Me as the only goal of their loving service. By engaging in such pure devotional service, even the dog-eaters can purify themselves from the contamination of their low birth.

 

SB 11.14.22: Neither religious activities endowed with honesty and mercy nor knowledge obtained with great penance can completely purify one's consciousness if they are bereft of loving service to Me.

 

SB 11.14.23: If one's hairs do not stand on end, how can the heart melt? And if the heart does not melt, how can tears of love flow from the eyes? If one does not cry in spiritual happiness, how can one render loving service to the Lord? And without such service, how can the consciousness be purified?

 

SB 11.14.24: A devotee whose speech is sometimes choked up, whose heart melts, who cries continually and sometimes laughs, who feels ashamed and cries out loudly and then dances -- a devotee thus fixed in loving service to Me purifies the entire universe.

 

SB 11.14.25: Just as gold, when smelted in fire, gives up its impurities and returns to its pure brilliant state, similarly, the spirit soul, absorbed in the fire of bhakti-yoga, is purified of all contamination caused by previous fruitive activities and returns to its original position of serving Me in the spiritual world.

 

SB 11.14.26: When a diseased eye is treated with medicinal ointment it gradually recovers its power to see. Similarly, as a conscious living entity cleanses himself of material contamination by hearing and chanting the pious narrations of My glories, he regains his ability to see Me, the Absolute Truth, in My subtle spiritual form.

 

SB 11.14.27: The mind of one meditating upon the objects of sense gratification is certainly entangled in such objects, but if one constantly remembers Me, then the mind is absorbed in Me.

 

SB 11.14.28: Therefore, one should reject all material processes of elevation, which are like the mental creations of a dream, and should completely absorb one's mind in Me. By constantly thinking of Me, one becomes purified.

 

SB 11.14.29: Being conscious of the eternal self, one should give up association with women and those intimately associated with women. Sitting fearlessly in a solitary place, one should concentrate the mind on Me with great attention.

 

SB 11.14.30: Of all kinds of suffering and bondage arising from various attachments, none is greater than the suffering and bondage arising from attachment to women and intimate contact with those attached to women.

 

SB 11.14.31: Sri Uddhava said: My dear lotus-eyed Krishna, by what process should one who desires liberation meditate upon You, of what specific nature should his meditation be, and upon which form should he meditate? Kindly explain to me this topic of meditation.

 

SB 11.14.32-33: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Sitting on a level seat that is not too high or too low, keeping the body straight and erect yet comfortable, placing the two hands on one's lap and focusing the eyes on the tip of one's nose, one should purify the pathways of breathing by practicing the mechanical exercises of puraka, kumbhaka and recaka, and then one should reverse the procedure (recaka, kumbhaka, puraka). Having fully controlled the senses, one may thus practice pranayama step by step.

 

SB 11.14.34: Beginning from the muladhara-cakra, one should move the life air continuously upward like the fibers in the lotus stalk until one reaches the heart, where the sacred syllable om is situated like the sound of a bell. One should thus continue raising the sacred syllable upward the distance of twelve angulas, and there the omkara should be joined together with the fifteen vibrations produced with anusvara.

 

SB 11.14.35: Being fixed in the omkara, one should carefully practice the pranayama system ten times at each sunrise, noon and sunset. Thus, after one month one will have conquered the life air.

 

SB 11.14.36-42: Keeping the eyes half closed and fixed on the tip of one's nose, being enlivened and alert, one should meditate on the lotus flower situated within the heart. This lotus has eight petals and is situated on an erect lotus stalk. One should meditate on the sun, moon and fire, placing them one after the other within the whorl of that lotus flower. Placing My transcendental form within the fire, one should meditate upon it as the auspicious goal of all meditation. That form is perfectly proportioned, gentle and cheerful. It possesses four beautiful long arms, a charming, beautiful neck, a handsome forehead, a pure smile and glowing, shark-shaped earrings suspended from two identical ears. That spiritual form is the color of a dark rain cloud and is garbed in golden-yellowish silk. The chest of that form is the abode of Srivatsa and the goddess of fortune, and that form is also decorated with a conchshell, disc, club, lotus flower and garland of forest flowers. The two brilliant lotus feet are decorated with ankle bells and bracelets, and that form exhibits the Kaustubha gem along with an effulgent crown. The upper hips are beautified by a golden belt, and the arms are decorated with valuable bracelets. All of the limbs of that beautiful form capture the heart, and the face is beautified by merciful glancing. Pulling the senses back from the sense objects, one should be grave and self-controlled and should use the intelligence to strongly fix the mind upon all of the limbs of My transcendental body. Thus one should meditate upon that most delicate transcendental form of Mine.

 

SB 11.14.43: One should then pull the consciousness back from all the limbs of that transcendental body. At that time, one should meditate only on the wonderfully smiling face of the Lord.

 

SB 11.14.44: Being established in meditation on the Lord's face, one should then withdraw the consciousness and fix it in the sky. Then giving up such meditation, one should become established in Me and give up the process of meditation altogether.

 

SB 11.14.45: One who has completely fixed his mind on Me should see Me within his own soul and should see the individual soul within Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Thus, he sees the individual souls united with the Supreme Soul, just as one sees the sun's rays completely united with the sun.

 

SB 11.14.46: When the yogi thus controls his mind by intensely concentrated meditation, his illusory identification with material objects, knowledge and activities is very quickly extinguished.

---

 

The above bold verse explains Achintya Bhede Bheda. Inconcievable oneness and difference from God.

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

"In you in me and everywhere there is but the one Vishnu, mistakenly viewing me with a sense of difference you are ill disposed toward me. Try to see in all beings only the Vishnu who is your own self. Give up your false and egoistic separateness from other beings, cultivate a sense of kinship unity and oneness with all"

-Bhaja Govindam

 

 

I think this is by Sriman Sankrcharya. Whom Gaudiya Vaishnava regard as Achraya. Due to Him being an Incarnation of Lord Shiva. Other than this we reject everything he said, because he taught covered Buddisum. Buddisum is Voidism. And Sankrcharya taught Covered Buddisum. He said due to the covered of Maya we have become Jivas, but when this coverering is removed we become God. Also with some verses from the Vedas [called the Maha-vakya by Mayavadis]. The Doctrine was established. And many were brought back to reading the Vedas. For this reason Vaisnavas are ever thankful to Him. Just as Lord Buddha stopped the killing of animals, in the name of the Vedas.

 

We also do NOT read the commentantaries of Sriman Sankrcharya because we know His purpose. He taught we are all God, but he did hint that only Krishna is God or Vishnu. But there is not even a hint of Bhakti in this Doctrine. But Many Mayavadi Sannyasi have become devotees of Lord Sri Krishna, because before they were very strict in thier practice. So they reached Brahman realisation. But could not find any happiness in this. That is why so many Mayavadis were converted to Vaishnava Dharma in India, at the time of Madhavacharya. And also when Gauranga [Chaitanya] Mahaprabhu was present. But you will note that there were no Mayavadis in Mayapura, the Dhama of Mahaprabhu. Before of After the Appearence of Sriman Sankrcharya. Hope that wasn't too long to read.

[Guest guest]

Govindaraman, Spirituality may not be a monopoly of hinduism, as hinduism is sanatana dharma more than a religion brand. Most other religions attained spirituality and might have good connections to india in that process of achievement. India is the seat of sanatana dharma, and it's the place considered as holy to attain spirituality. So was Budha (there are guesses available on the spiritual experience of Jesus christ)

 

Mayavadhi influence is something the vaishnavites know better. Who else spoke about mayavadhis more than Vaishnavites since the 11th century.

 

The spiritual realization is unique from 3 fundamental perspectives in hinduism.

 

(1) Shiva the universal spiritual self, (2) Shakthy the unversal formless energy. Shiva & Shakthy are together in each entity appearing in this world. We are alive is a proof of their love which is one within us. The garb of identity we assume as we wake/grow-up is actually attributable to them (all else is ignorance).

 

Having born as shiva shakthy we're born to material world. there is no escaping. And even if one were to kill oneself, there is no escaping (Moksha) other than the realization of the Universal self Shiva. So where are you to hurry wondering what next, after a spiritual realization.

 

So might as well live in this body form in this material world. You'll have to take care of your bodily needs like food, bath, urine, health, shelter, basic security etc. And in doing so you also will have to stay centered on the spiritual self. You'll know that this body is all filth & therefore meant for unconditional service and the material acquired is all ignorance & maya over the illusion of mine, yours his, her's etc.

 

(3) Such living personalities are symbolised in the Vishnu avatars with names forms characters etc (though difficult to capture in description or comprehend). Hinduism is different from you Mayavadhis in this third aspect of Vishnu or Krishna, considering the supreme personality. Personality full of energy, actions & full of renunciation to the spiritual self (unlimited bliss & grace). Such personalities are so much in sync with the nature in all their actions, that material prosperity (lakshmi) and mother earth (boo devi) are their greatest admirers & very protective of their existence. What can country men ask for more than having such personality as kings.

 

Acharya Sankara is the only one who's dwelled on all these teaching in hinduism, at a time when we were fast loosing all the vedic knowledge.

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

Paravati is also Durga who is called Maha-Maya. Shiva is very powerful almost on the same level as Narayana. Still Shiva always serves Narayana. Theres not much to it. Simple is best, I gtg go, not posting. Sorry. Busy.

 

My add is pankaja_dasa@

[Guest guest]

Yes I also posted part of this under the title progressive meditation.

 

It is the same translation. I skipped verses just for brevity

[Guest guest]

The buddha most certainly did not teach voidism. It is because this was what people began thinking he taught that Shankara had to clear things up. The buddha's rejection of everything people say viz (ie. it is not this is, not not this not this and not this it is not not this and not that) was merely to keep people free from speculation as Krsna himself also taught

 

"My dear Arjuna, one who is engaged in My pure devotional service, free from the contaminations of previous activities and from mental speculation, who is friendly to every living entity, certainly comes to Me. "

 

Please do not caste aspersions when you don't understand. You would yourself know how long it takes to study a philosophical system. You have not studied either Shankara's Kevala advaita or Buddhism in their true spirit and therefore should not try to impose your own ideas.

 

Blind rejection because people tell you to reject will get you nowhere. These views on buddhism and Shankara are not qualifiable in the least. Shankara also in Bhaja Govindam says:

 

Even a little study and understanding of the Bhagawad Gita, or

sipping of even a tiny drop of the waters of the holy Ganges or

even a little worship of Murari -- these will surely save one

from confrontation with death !

 

AND

 

 

Recite the Gita; chant the thousand Names of the lord (Vishnu

Sahasranama), meditate ceaselessly on the Consort and Lord of Lakshmi,

lead the mind towards association with the good. Give away your wealth

in charity to those in need and who are poor.

 

 

Are these wrong too?

Please see.. and keep the context of the discussion. Since you want the full text I will post it next

 

[Guest guest]

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Srimad Bhagavatam

 

SB 11.15 Summary

 

SB 11.15.1: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Uddhava, the mystic perfections of yoga are acquired by a yogi who has conquered his senses, steadied his mind, conquered the breathing process and fixed his mind on Me.

 

SB 11.15.2: Sri Uddhava said: My dear Lord Acyuta, by what process can mystic perfection be achieved, and what is the nature of such perfection? How many mystic perfections are there? Please explain these things to me. Indeed, You are the bestower of all mystic perfections.

 

SB 11.15.3: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: The masters of the yoga system have declared that there are eighteen types of mystic perfection and meditation, of which eight are primary, having their shelter in Me, and ten are secondary, appearing from the material mode of goodness.

 

SB 11.15.4-5: Among the eight primary mystic perfections, the three by which one transforms one's own body are anima, becoming smaller than the smallest; mahima, becoming greater than the greatest; and laghima, becoming lighter than the lightest. Through the perfection of prapti one acquires whatever one desires, and through prakamya-siddhi one experiences any enjoyable object, either in this world or the next. Through isita-siddhi one can manipulate the subpotencies of maya, and through the controlling potency called vasita-siddhi one is unimpeded by the three modes of nature. One who has acquired kamavasayita-siddhi can obtain anything from anywhere, to the highest possible limit. My dear gentle Uddhava, these eight mystic perfections are considered to be naturally existing and unexcelled within this world.

 

SB 11.15.6-7: The ten secondary mystic perfections arising from the modes of nature are the powers of freeing oneself from hunger and thirst and other bodily disturbances, hearing and seeing things far away, moving the body at the speed of the mind, assuming any form one desires, entering the bodies of others, dying when one desires, witnessing the pastimes between the demigods and the celestial girls called Apsaras, completely executing one's determination and giving orders whose fulfillment is unimpeded.

 

SB 11.15.8-9: The power to know past, present and future; tolerance of heat, cold and other dualities; knowing the minds of others; checking the influence of fire, sun, water, poison, and so on; and remaining unconquered by others -- these constitute five perfections of the mystic process of yoga and meditation. I am simply listing these here according to their names and characteristics. Now please learn from Me how specific mystic perfections arise from specific meditations and also of the particular processes involved.

 

SB 11.15.10: One who worships Me in My atomic form pervading all subtle elements, fixing his mind on that alone, obtains the mystic perfection called anima.

 

SB 11.15.11: One who absorbs his mind in the particular form of the mahat-tattva and thus meditates upon Me as the Supreme Soul of the total material existence achieves the mystic perfection called mahima. By further absorbing the mind in the situation of each individual element such as the sky, air, fire, and so on, one progressively acquires the greatness of each material element.

 

SB 11.15.12: I exist within everything, and I am therefore the essence of the atomic constituents of material elements. By attaching his mind to Me in this form, the yogi may achieve the perfection called laghima, by which he realizes the subtle atomic substance of time.

 

SB 11.15.13: Fixing his mind completely in Me within the element of false ego generated from the mode of goodness, the yogi obtains the power of mystic acquisition, by which he becomes the proprietor of the senses of all living entities. He obtains such perfection because his mind is absorbed in Me.

 

SB 11.15.14: One who concentrates all mental activities in Me as the Supersoul of that phase of the mahat-tattva which manifests the chain of fruitive activities obtains from Me, whose appearance is beyond material perception, the most excellent mystic perfection called prakamya.

 

SB 11.15.15: One who places his consciousness on Vishnu, the Supersoul, the prime mover and Supreme Lord of the external energy consisting of three modes, obtains the mystic perfection of controlling other conditioned souls, their material bodies and their bodily designations.

 

SB 11.15.16: The yogi who places his mind in My form of Narayana, known as the fourth factor, full of all opulences, becomes endowed with My nature and thus obtains the mystic perfection called vasita.

 

SB 11.15.17: One who fixes his pure mind on Me in My manifestation as the impersonal Brahman obtains the greatest happiness, wherein all his desires are completely fulfilled.

 

SB 11.15.18: A human being who concentrates on Me as the upholder of religious principles, the personification of purity and the Lord of Svetadvipa obtains the pure existence in which he is freed from the six waves of material disturbance, namely hunger, thirst, decay, death, grief and illusion.

 

SB 11.15.19: That purified living entity who fixes his mind on the extraordinary sound vibrations occurring within Me as the personified sky and total life air is then able to perceive within the sky the speaking of all living entities.

 

SB 11.15.20: Merging one's sight into the sun planet and then the sun planet into one's eyes, one should meditate on Me as existing within the combination of sun and vision; thus one acquires the power to see any distant thing.

 

SB 11.15.21: The yogi who completely absorbs his mind in Me, and who then makes use of the wind that follows the mind to absorb the material body in Me, obtains through the potency of meditation on Me the mystic perfection by which his body immediately follows his mind wherever it goes.

 

SB 11.15.22: When the yogi, applying his mind in a certain way, desires to assume a particular form, that very form immediately appears. Such perfection is possible by absorbing the mind in the shelter of My inconceivable mystic potency, by which I assume innumerable forms.

 

SB 11.15.23: When a perfect yogi desires to enter another's body, he should meditate upon himself within the other body, and then, giving up his own gross body, he should enter the other's body through the pathways of air, as easily as a bee leaves one flower and flies into another.

 

SB 11.15.24: The yogi who has achieved the mystic perfection called svacchanda-mrityu blocks the anus with the heel of the foot and then lifts the soul from the heart to the chest, to the neck and finally to the head. Situated within the brahma-randhra, the yogi then gives up his material body and guides the spirit soul to the selected destination.

 

SB 11.15.25: The yogi who desires to enjoy in the pleasure gardens of the demigods should meditate on the purified mode of goodness, which is situated within Me, and then the heavenly women, generated from the mode of goodness, will approach him in airplanes.

 

SB 11.15.26: A yogi who has faith in Me, absorbing his mind in Me and knowing that My purpose is always fulfilled, will always achieve his purpose by the very means he has determined to follow.

 

SB 11.15.27: A person who perfectly meditates on Me acquires My nature of being the supreme ruler and controller. His order, like Mine, can never be frustrated by any means.

 

SB 11.15.28: A yogi who has purified his existence by devotion to Me and who thus expertly knows the process of meditation obtains knowledge of past, present and future. He can therefore see the birth and death of himself and others.

 

SB 11.15.29: Just as the bodies of aquatics cannot be injured by water, similarly, the body of a yogi whose consciousness is pacified by devotion to Me and who is fully developed in yoga science cannot be injured by fire, sun, water, poison, and so forth.

 

SB 11.15.30: My devotee becomes unconquerable by meditating on My opulent incarnations, which are decorated with Srivatsa and various weapons and are endowed with imperial paraphernalia such as flags, ornamental umbrellas and fans.

 

SB 11.15.31: A learned devotee who worships Me through yoga meditation certainly obtains in all respects the mystic perfections that I have described.

 

SB 11.15.32: For a sage who has conquered his senses, breathing and mind, who is self-controlled and always absorbed in meditation on Me, what mystic perfection could possibly be difficult to achieve?

 

SB 11.15.33: Learned experts in devotional service state that the mystic perfections of yoga that I have mentioned are actually impediments and are a waste of time for one who is practicing the supreme yoga, by which one achieves all perfection in life directly from Me.

 

SB 11.15.34: Whatever mystic perfections can be achieved by good birth, herbs, austerities and mantras can all be achieved by devotional service to Me; indeed, one cannot achieve the actual perfection of yoga by any other means.

 

SB 11.15.35: My dear Uddhava, I am the cause, the protector and the Lord of all mystic perfections, of the yoga system, of analytic knowledge, of pure activity and of the community of learned Vedic teachers.

 

SB 11.15.36: Just as the same material elements exist within and outside of all material bodies, similarly, I cannot be covered by anything else. I exist within everything as the Supersoul and outside of everything in My all-pervading feature.

 

 

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

I know the conclutions of Buddisum, and Mayavadi. The GOAL. After all its the GOAL which is what we want. They are not the same. Sorry to disturb and go, but I am busy with others things. Hare Krishna

 

Sadhana and Sadhya.

[Guest guest]

the truth is one the wise call it variously.

[Guest guest]

If you "know" the conclusions of these things you really have not understood their teachings

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

Now whoever your are, are speaking like a Buddist. Truth is Krishna. Not all paths lead to Krishna, only a fool will say this. If I want to goto London, and I goto Manchester, thats not going to London. Same in material and same in spiritual sence. Ramakrishna taught this, 'all paths lead to one'. He first thought He was something then later he said he was something else, all these kinds of nonsence.

 

Then he said that Vishnu is poor. Dardidra Narayana. He may have knew some things [who doesn't] but people followed him foolishy even until this very day. People just don't even enquire that they are so stupid and thick, how they can ever become God etc. Anybody comes upto them provides some 'evidence' you can become God, they agree. This is how the Buddists were convinced, they didn't know any better. Nor did they have a desire to serve Krishna. I said enough.

[Guest guest]

You are right who ever thinks he, not being god, can become god is a fool. It is a good thing this was never taught in either Advaita or Buddhism. If you think that is what they were saying it is your misunderstanding.

 

Regarding analogies I you can choose them to illustrate your point. You use that London Manchester one, someone else can say that one person calls it water, another calls it agua another calls it pani. Different names same thing.

 

The same person can be referred to as father, son, boss, employee etc. different designations to the same person

 

I can say I want to go to India, Bharatavarsha, Hindustan etc they all refer to the same place.

 

the tip of a mountain can be reached from any side. Different people may get prefer different paths. An analogy should reflect the truth not the other way around.

 

Again, please refrain from calling the teachings you do not understand nonsense. I am sure a lot of people think KC is nonsense because they were not properly taught what it really entails. You would yourself know that casual reading of what great masters say would not fully reflect their teachings. There is more to speech than what is said, you also have to take into account whom is being spoken to what was the point trying to be made etc. Krsna explains this in the geeta, that there is more to action than what is actually being done. So do not be so quick to pass judgement

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

Want to merge into the Impersonal Brahmajyoti, Buddists are one step backward from this. Its basically spiritual suicide what they teach. Complete negation of JIva's blissful nature.

 

For example If I am standing on a seaside, and I look into the water, I could think I want to merge into this Water, though sooner or later I would want to come out, and engage in various actitivies. So the natural inclination of the soul is ananda, it want variety. Some Mayavadis say so many things, like Maya cut them up etc. Then they say they are God when they healed. Even a fool in this Age wouldn't take this as truth. I am so foolish I couldn't even do well in school. But this is so amazinly flawed. God is flawless. That's the basic princliple of WHO God is.

 

Actually people want to be fooled. So Krishna gives them a chance.

[Guest guest]

You have completely missed the whole boat. The moment you conclude the followers of Advaita want this, or the followers of the Buddha want that. or they are trying to do this or that.. merging into the impersonal bhramajyoti etc etc.. You have completely missed the whole essence of the teachings. Because you cannot understand something don't call it flawed.

 

[Guest guest]

Govindaram is busy. He's left couple of notes in this thread that he's busy, gotto go and enough..etc. There are couple of responses from Govindaram even after that.

 

[Guest guest]

The discussion is open to anyone not govindaram alone.