Guest guest Report post Posted August 16, 2006 A warm welcome to you, Tom. I hope you find this list of your liking. If I may add my two cents to the discussion on testing a " guru " 's clairvoyance to figure out her or his spiritual advancement: in the yoga tradition, supernatural powers (siddhis) are regarded as a pitfall rather than an accomplishment. Seekers who develop siddhis and actively use them lose sight of their spiritual purposes (there is too much ego involved in impressing others). In the olden days, many of them would end up becoming fakhirs instead--i.e., folks who make a living by publicly performing " miracles " at big fairs. Nowadays, they start a web site and charge you $200 for a reading (LOL). Bottom line: the proof of genuine spirituality is not in miracles but rather in ethics, selfless service, and humility. This said, I know that Chris is fiercely adverse to this kind of testing. Isn't that right, Master? ;-) Sel Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 16, 2006 Often I have a tendency to appear dumber than I actually am. The problem is more to do with my ability to communicate clearly and needing to work on that. Tom selena230 Wed, 16 Aug 2006 12:34 PM testing the guru's superpowers A warm welcome to you, Tom. I hope you find this list of your liking. If I may add my two cents to the discussion on testing a " guru " 's clairvoyance to figure out her or his spiritual advancement: in the yoga tradition, supernatural powers (siddhis) are regarded as a pitfall rather than an accomplishment. Seekers who develop siddhis and actively use them lose sight of their spiritual purposes (there is too much ego involved in impressing others). In the olden days, many of them would end up becoming fakhirs instead--i.e., folks who make a living by publicly performing " miracles " at big fairs. Nowadays, they start a web site and charge you $200 for a reading (LOL). Bottom line: the proof of genuine spirituality is not in miracles but rather in ethics, selfless service, and humility. This said, I know that Chris is fiercely adverse to this kind of testing. Isn't that right, Master? ;-) Sel ______________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 16, 2006 I usually appear smarter than I am. But that's easy. I just stand or go to sleep. BlessU Sam , TomSKinney wrote: > > Often I have a tendency to appear dumber than I actually am. The problem is more to do with my ability to communicate clearly and needing to work on that. > > Tom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 16, 2006 Too funny!! if that was the case i sure bet Chrisms see'a a lot of clothing or lack of that he would rather not.. love T In a message dated 8/16/2006 7:58:02 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, deepdance1 writes: dear chrism... what am i wearing? love, -steve f Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 16, 2006 Hello Selena, You are correct about the use of Siddhis. Kundalini is not about showing off or indulging in self aggrandizement. It is about selfless service. If a certain quality is needed I am compelled to use a siddhi, or more correctly, the siddhis uses me. Being tested is a common theme, especially inside the western society. Touching tasting, hearing, seeing, smelling, science enjoys testing, and inside that process it is ok to me. Testing as a form of competition or trickery to prove or disprove preconceived notions of worth inside unstated expectations is dishonest and an impediment to trust. Without trust there is no communication. - blessings Selena - chrism Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 16, 2006 dear chrism... what am i wearing? love, -steve f Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 16, 2006 A smile! - c Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 16, 2006 A smile! Now that's an answer from a true Guru .................Maitreya's response exactly He! He! R.............................................. - LionessLove76 Wednesday, August 16, 2006 9:44 PM Re: testing the guru's superpowers Too funny!! if that was the case i sure bet Chrisms see'a a lot of clothing or lack of that he would rather not.. love T In a message dated 8/16/2006 7:58:02 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, deepdance1 writes: dear chrism... what am i wearing? love, -steve f Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 17, 2006 Nice said Selena )) Namaste A. , " selena230 " <selena230 wrote: > > A warm welcome to you, Tom. I hope you find this list of your liking. > If I may add my two cents to the discussion on testing a " guru " 's > clairvoyance to figure out her or his spiritual advancement: in the > yoga tradition, supernatural powers (siddhis) are regarded as a > pitfall rather than an accomplishment. Seekers who develop siddhis and > actively use them lose sight of their spiritual purposes (there is too > much ego involved in impressing others). In the olden days, many of > them would end up becoming fakhirs instead--i.e., folks who make a > living by publicly performing " miracles " at big fairs. Nowadays, they > start a web site and charge you $200 for a reading (LOL). Bottom line: > the proof of genuine spirituality is not in miracles but rather in > ethics, selfless service, and humility. > > This said, I know that Chris is fiercely adverse to this kind of > testing. Isn't that right, Master? ;-) > > Sel > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 18, 2006 It was very recently that I've arrived and this is not the first place I've come. It has gotten to be something of a habit to measure and evaluate places to see if it is okay to jump in fully and in faith. One has to be very careful about choosing a teacher, but having done so all questioning must be set aside. There have been a lot of teachers in my life but no one so far to whom I can give myself over to completely. I don't expect to find that here, but the routine is a strong habit. I'll probably stay a few weeks or a few months and then leave, having decided that I've gotten everything I can from here. It was not my intention to be rude, though. Tom sarceto Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:30 AM Re: testing the guru's superpowers Nice said Selena )) Namaste A. , " selena230 " <selena230 wrote: > > A warm welcome to you, Tom. I hope you find this list of your liking. > If I may add my two cents to the discussion on testing a " guru " 's > clairvoyance to figure out her or his spiritual advancement: in the > yoga tradition, supernatural powers (siddhis) are regarded as a > pitfall rather than an accomplishment. Seekers who develop siddhis and > actively use them lose sight of their spiritual purposes (there is too > much ego involved in impressing others). In the olden days, many of > them would end up becoming fakhirs instead--i.e., folks who make a > living by publicly performing " miracles " at big fairs. Nowadays, they > start a web site and charge you $200 for a reading (LOL). Bottom line: > the proof of genuine spirituality is not in miracles but rather in > ethics, selfless service, and humility. > > This said, I know that Chris is fiercely adverse to this kind of > testing. Isn't that right, Master? ;-) > > Sel > ______________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 18, 2006 I've arrived recently as well, nor is it the first place I've come. For some reason an anecodote shared with me by a friend comes to mind. That is, one well known guru in Tibetan Buddhist circles, Lama Thubten Zopa Rinpoche is quite well known for speaking off topic for hours and hours and hours, to students gathered for a particular initiation or teaching, leaving many to wonder when he will start to teach what they thought they came to hear. And it's only after one or more persons finally gets up and leave, that the real teaching begins. TomSKinney wrote: It was very recently that I've arrived and this is not the first place I've come. It has gotten to be something of a habit to measure and evaluate places to see if it is okay to jump in fully and in faith. One has to be very careful about choosing a teacher, but having done so all questioning must be set aside. There have been a lot of teachers in my life but no one so far to whom I can give myself over to completely. I don't expect to find that here, but the routine is a strong habit. I'll probably stay a few weeks or a few months and then leave, having decided that I've gotten everything I can from here. It was not my intention to be rude, though. Tom sarceto Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:30 AM Re: testing the guru's superpowers Nice said Selena )) Namaste A. , " selena230 " <selena230 wrote: > > A warm welcome to you, Tom. I hope you find this list of your liking. > If I may add my two cents to the discussion on testing a " guru " 's > clairvoyance to figure out her or his spiritual advancement: in the > yoga tradition, supernatural powers (siddhis) are regarded as a > pitfall rather than an accomplishment. Seekers who develop siddhis and > actively use them lose sight of their spiritual purposes (there is too > much ego involved in impressing others). In the olden days, many of > them would end up becoming fakhirs instead--i.e., folks who make a > living by publicly performing " miracles " at big fairs. Nowadays, they > start a web site and charge you $200 for a reading (LOL). Bottom line: > the proof of genuine spirituality is not in miracles but rather in > ethics, selfless service, and humility. > > This said, I know that Chris is fiercely adverse to this kind of > testing. Isn't that right, Master? ;-) > > Sel > ________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 20, 2006 Hello all, Tom Kinney unsubbed today. I have wished him well on his path. I wrote a response to his post down below here and thought, with the help of others, that it might be to hurtful for him and so did not post it. Others on this list have indicated it has some intrinsic value as a teaching so I will post it and let you decide for yourself - Hello Tom, Please see below. - TomSKinney wrote: It was very recently that I've arrived and this is not the first place I've come. It has gotten to be something of a habit to measure and evaluate places to see if it is okay to jump in fully and in faith. @@ Fully and in faith. Meaning that "now" you are partially in and without faith? And in order to find faith and safety for full immersion you are employing "clairvoyants" and testing by omission to come to an evaluation? Why? What is there to fear by being open and honest and friendly. If danger looms you can leave. Why all this pretense at protection from being taken advantage of? @@ One has to be very careful about choosing a teacher, but having done so all questioning must be set aside. @@ Questioning set aside? Is that what you would expect from your students Tom? No discussion, ! no questions, ! do as your told? Hmmmm @@ There have been a lot of teachers in my life but no one so far to whom I can give myself over to completely. I don't expect to find that here, but the routine is a strong habit. @@ Heh! You definitely wont find that here! At least not from me anyway. You are your own best teacher. Have you given yourself over to yourself yet? Try making that a routine and you will fare much better than looking outside to find what is waiting inside. @@ I'll probably stay a few weeks or a few months and then leave, having decided that I've gotten everything I can from here. It was not my intention to be rude, though. @@ Not your intention. Well I think the fruits of your stay have already been harvested. You have experienced a partial activation Tom and you are looking for a "teacher" to fill in the blank spaces. This is good and I can understand that. On the other hand you are in fear of being controlled, dominated, you are insecure in understanding what has happened and inventing a structure of strength by a facade of being "cooly aloof" unconcerned and not fully prepared to take any information gleaned as serious or worth your time and attention. OK. This is your choice. So now I will look at you.... You want to teach Kundalini and give Shaktipat without coming to terms with your own activation. Without addressing your fears and your imbalances. You feel powerful and frightend at the same time though not wanting to believe you are frightend for fear of it taking you over. There is domination. This domination theme you have is carried over from the dreams you are having. LOL. OH Yes! This can be seen! Oh.. Wait a minute.LOL... Let me call a clairvoyant I know!..LOL... don't want to fully immerse myself....let them take the heat..(calling all sacrificial clairvoyants)...LOL.....You will not shake these dreams Tom until you start acknowledging your strength as not being based in invulnerability but by being based in union with yourself. Vulnerable and Open to yourself "fully." The dark qualities are aspects of you that are calling you by virtue of your having fear. Begin to forgive what occurs. Yourself and the others that are so active. Stop doing what you are told. Don't be afraid. - Ask questions that are honestly inquiring. Others have gone where you now tread and if you practice love and kindness without personal gain you will move much faster and with less attachments. - enjoy your stay - . TomSKinney wrote: It was very recently that I've arrived and this is not the first place I've come. It has gotten to be something of a habit to measure and evaluate places to see if it is okay to jump in fully and in faith. One has to be very careful about choosing a teacher, but having done so all questioning must be set aside. There have been a lot of teachers in my life but no one so far to whom I can give myself over to completely. I don't expect to find that here, but the routine is a strong habit. I'll probably stay a few weeks or a few months and then leave, having decided that I've gotten everything I can from here. It was not my intention to be rude, though.Tom sarceto (AT) hotmail (DOT) comTo: Sent: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:30 AM Re: testing the guru's superpowersNice said Selena ))NamasteA. , "selena230" <selena230 wrote:>> A warm welcome to you, Tom. I hope you find this list of your liking.> If I may add my two cents to the discussion on testing a "guru"'s> clairvoyance to figure out her or his spiritual advancement: in the> yoga tradition, supernatural powers (siddhis) are regarded as a> pitfall rather than an accomplishment. Seekers who develop siddhis and> actively use them lose sight of their spiritual purposes (there is too> much ego involved in impressing others). In the olden days, many of> them would end up becoming fakhirs instead--i.e., folks who make a> living by publicly performing "miracles" at big fairs. Nowadays, they> start a web site and charge you $200 for a reading (LOL). Bottom line:> the proof of genuine spirituality is not in miracles but rather in> ethics, selfless service, and humility.> > This said, I know that Chris is fiercely adverse to this kind of> testing. Isn't that right, Master? ;-)> > Sel>________Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 20, 2006 Just wanted to say there is lots here for all of us to ponder. But must say too that i appreciate that you keep comments ......and the Disciplines of Using or activating ''K'',very clear. I notice that some visitors want to activate others or them selves very quickly without all the precautions. Let me say as i'm sure others can that my first ''K''experience really knocked me for a six and it was ''restricted for me so i can manage''. Now of course i treat Theresa some of you have seen my posts................a more tragic situation than this i have yet to see. Which is ''K'' activation gone Wild. I don't see a way to put that Genie back in the bottle. In fact i always say there is always an answer ,''ask and you shall recieve.'' So i know for her that she must go inside for the answers,the problem is she is burning out in the Central Nervous System. Cannot listen to what i advise or suggest now because she is too far ''fried''. ''K'' fire is truly awsome and powerfull, if not done with prudence and good graces it will burn,both parties the activated and activator. So again i really appreciate your answers and the boundaries, and this site cannot become a place for Adulation of the teacher. Neither a place where huge ''K''explosions make others ill, or a site of Phenomena ''Hey did you hear about this guy!!! That kind of phrase! So i too wish him well and pray for his Victory. Always Victory R............................................... - Sunday, August 20, 2006 3:49 PM Re: Re: testing the guru's superpowers Hello all, Tom Kinney unsubbed today. I have wished him well on his path. I wrote a response to his post down below here and thought, with the help of others, that it might be to hurtful for him and so did not post it. Others on this list have indicated it has some intrinsic value as a teaching so I will post it and let you decide for yourself - Hello Tom, Please see below. - TomSKinney (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: It was very recently that I've arrived and this is not the first place I've come. It has gotten to be something of a habit to measure and evaluate places to see if it is okay to jump in fully and in faith. @@ Fully and in faith. Meaning that "now" you are partially in and without faith? And in order to find faith and safety for full immersion you are employing "clairvoyants" and testing by omission to come to an evaluation? Why? What is there to fear by being open and honest and friendly. If danger looms you can leave. Why all this pretense at protection from being taken advantage of? @@ One has to be very careful about choosing a teacher, but having done so all questioning must be set aside. @@ Questioning set aside? Is that what you would expect from your students Tom? No discussion, ! no questions, ! do as your told? Hmmmm @@ There have been a lot of teachers in my life but no one so far to whom I can give myself over to completely. I don't expect to find that here, but the routine is a strong habit. @@ Heh! You definitely wont find that here! At least not from me anyway. You are your own best teacher. Have you given yourself over to yourself yet? Try making that a routine and you will fare much better than looking outside to find what is waiting inside. @@ I'll probably stay a few weeks or a few months and then leave, having decided that I've gotten everything I can from here. It was not my intention to be rude, though. @@ Not your intention. Well I think the fruits of your stay have already been harvested. You have experienced a partial activation Tom and you are looking for a "teacher" to fill in the blank spaces. This is good and I can understand that. On the other hand you are in fear of being controlled, dominated, you are insecure in understanding what has happened and inventing a structure of strength by a facade of being "cooly aloof" unconcerned and not fully prepared to take any information gleaned as serious or worth your time and attention. OK. This is your choice. So now I will look at you.... You want to teach Kundalini and give Shaktipat without coming to terms with your own activation. Without addressing your fears and your imbalances. You feel powerful and frightend at the same time though not wanting to believe you are frightend for fear of it taking you over. There is domination. This domination theme you have is carried over from the dreams you are having. LOL. OH Yes! This can be seen! Oh.. Wait a minute.LOL... Let me call a clairvoyant I know!..LOL... don't want to fully immerse myself....let them take the heat..(calling all sacrificial clairvoyants)...LOL.....You will not shake these dreams Tom until you start acknowledging your strength as not being based in invulnerability but by being based in union with yourself. Vulnerable and Open to yourself "fully." The dark qualities are aspects of you that are calling you by virtue of your having fear. Begin to forgive what occurs. Yourself and the others that are so active. Stop doing what you are told. Don't be afraid. - Ask questions that are honestly inquiring. Others have gone where you now tread and if you practice love and kindness without personal gain you will move much faster and with less attachments. - enjoy your stay - .. TomSKinney (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: It was very recently that I've arrived and this is not the first place I've come. It has gotten to be something of a habit to measure and evaluate places to see if it is okay to jump in fully and in faith. One has to be very careful about choosing a teacher, but having done so all questioning must be set aside. There have been a lot of teachers in my life but no one so far to whom I can give myself over to completely. I don't expect to find that here, but the routine is a strong habit. I'll probably stay a few weeks or a few months and then leave, having decided that I've gotten everything I can from here. It was not my intention to be rude, though.Tom sarceto (AT) hotmail (DOT) comTo: Sent: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:30 AM Re: testing the guru's superpowersNice said Selena ))NamasteA. , "selena230" <selena230 wrote:>> A warm welcome to you, Tom. I hope you find this list of your liking.> If I may add my two cents to the discussion on testing a "guru"'s> clairvoyance to figure out her or his spiritual advancement: in the> yoga tradition, supernatural powers (siddhis) are regarded as a> pitfall rather than an accomplishment. Seekers who develop siddhis and> actively use them lose sight of their spiritual purposes (there is too> much ego involved in impressing others). In the olden days, many of> them would end up becoming fakhirs instead--i.e., folks who make a> living by publicly performing "miracles" at big fairs. Nowadays, they> start a web site and charge you $200 for a reading (LOL). Bottom line:> the proof of genuine spirituality is not in miracles but rather in> ethics, selfless service, and humility.> > This said, I know that Chris is fiercely adverse to this kind of> testing. Isn't that right, Master? ;-)> > Sel>________Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 20, 2006 @@ ...Try making that a routine and you will fare much better than looking outside to find what is waiting inside. @@ Amen Thank you Chris for the reminder. Namaste A. --- chrism <> wrote: > > Hello all, > Tom Kinney unsubbed today. I have wished him well on his path. I wrote a response to his post down below here and thought, with the help of others, that it might be to hurtful for him and so did not post it. Others on this list have indicated it has some intrinsic value as a teaching so I will post it and let you decide for yourself - > > > Hello Tom, > Please see below. - > > TomSKinney wrote: > It was very recently that I've arrived and this is not the first place I've come. It has gotten to be something of a habit to measure and evaluate places to see if it is okay to jump in fully and in faith. > > @@ Fully and in faith. Meaning that " now " you are partially in and without faith? And in order to find faith and safety for full immersion you are employing " clairvoyants " and testing by omission to come to an evaluation? Why? What is there to fear by being open and honest and friendly. If danger looms you can leave. Why all this pretense at protection from being taken advantage of? @@ > > > One has to be very careful about choosing a teacher, but having done so all questioning must be set aside. > > @@ Questioning set aside? Is that what you would expect from your students Tom? No discussion, ! no questions, ! do as your told? Hmmmm @@ > > > There have been a lot of teachers in my life but no one so far to whom I can give myself over to completely. I don't expect to find that here, but the routine is a strong habit. > > @@ Heh! You definitely wont find that here! At least not from me anyway. You are your own best teacher. Have you given yourself over to yourself yet? Try making that a routine and you will fare much better than looking outside to find what is waiting inside. @@ > > > I'll probably stay a few weeks or a few months and then leave, having decided that I've gotten everything I can from here. It was not my intention to be rude, though. > > @@ Not your intention. Well I think the fruits of your stay have already been harvested. You have experienced a partial activation Tom and you are looking for a " teacher " to fill in the blank spaces. This is good and I can understand that. On the other hand you are in fear of being controlled, dominated, you are insecure in understanding what has happened and inventing a structure of strength by a facade of being " cooly aloof " unconcerned and not fully prepared to take any information gleaned as serious or worth your time and attention. OK. This is your choice. So now I will look at you.... > > You want to teach Kundalini and give Shaktipat without coming to terms with your own activation. Without addressing your fears and your imbalances. You feel powerful and frightend at the same time though not wanting to believe you are frightend for fear of it taking you over. There is domination. > > This domination theme you have is carried over from the dreams you are having. LOL. OH Yes! This can be seen! Oh.. Wait a minute.LOL... Let me call a clairvoyant I know!..LOL... don't want to fully immerse myself....let them take the heat..(calling all sacrificial clairvoyants)...LOL.....You will not shake these dreams Tom until you start acknowledging your strength as not being based in invulnerability but by being based in union with yourself. Vulnerable and Open to yourself " fully. " > > The dark qualities are aspects of you that are calling you by virtue of your having fear. Begin to forgive what occurs. Yourself and the others that are so active. Stop doing what you are told. Don't be afraid. - Ask questions that are honestly inquiring. Others have gone where you now tread and if you practice love and kindness without personal gain you will move much faster and with less attachments. - enjoy your stay - > > > > Recent Activity > > 5 > New Members > > 2 > New Photos > > Visit Your Group > Ads on > Learn more now. > Reach customers > searching for you. > > 360° > Start Today > Get your own > place online > > Y! GeoCities > Be Interactive > Create a conver- > sation with blogs. > > > > . > > > > > > TomSKinney wrote: > It was very recently that I've arrived and this is not the first place I've come. It has gotten to be something of a habit to measure and evaluate places to see if it is okay to jump in fully and in faith. One has to be very careful about choosing a teacher, but having done so all questioning must be set aside. There have been a lot of teachers in my life but no one so far to whom I can give myself over to completely. I don't expect to find that here, but the routine is a strong habit. I'll probably stay a few weeks or a few months and then leave, having decided that I've gotten everything I can from here. It was not my intention to be rude, though. > > Tom > > > sarceto > > Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:30 AM > Re: testing the guru's superpowers > > Nice said Selena )) > > Namaste > A. > > --- " selena230 " > <selena230@> wrote: > > > > A warm welcome to you, Tom. I hope you find this list of your > liking. > > If I may add my two cents to the discussion on testing a " guru " 's > > clairvoyance to figure out her or his spiritual advancement: in the > > yoga tradition, supernatural powers (siddhis) are regarded as a > > pitfall rather than an accomplishment. Seekers who develop siddhis > and > > actively use them lose sight of their spiritual purposes (there is > too > > much ego involved in impressing others). In the olden days, many of > > them would end up becoming fakhirs instead--i.e., folks who make a > > living by publicly performing " miracles " at big fairs. Nowadays, > they > > start a web site and charge you $200 for a reading (LOL). Bottom > line: > > the proof of genuine spirituality is not in miracles but rather in > > ethics, selfless service, and humility. > > > > This said, I know that Chris is fiercely adverse to this kind of > > testing. Isn't that right, Master? ;-) > > > > Sel > > > > ________ > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 21, 2006 Good answer, Chrism. No offense to Tom, but there is an army of people out there with the same attitude, roaming from teacher to teacher, all of whom prove disappointing. Like Randi the Magician, they feel it's their 'job' to root out all the imposters, and strangely, every teacher they meet turns out to have feet of clay. Perhaps, they should look at their own feet. Shen chrism <> wrote: Hello all, Tom Kinney unsubbed today. I have wished him well on his path. I wrote a response to his post down below here and thought, with the help of others, that it might be to hurtful for him and so did not post it. Others on this list have indicated it has some intrinsic value as a teaching so I will post it and let you decide for yourself - Hello Tom, Please see below. - TomSKinney wrote: It was very recently that I've arrived and this is not the first place I've come. It has gotten to be something of a habit to measure and evaluate places to see if it is okay to jump in fully and in faith. @@ Fully and in faith. Meaning that " now " you are partially in and without faith? And in order to find faith and safety for full immersion you are employing " clairvoyants " and testing by omission to come to an evaluation? Why? What is there to fear by being open and honest and friendly. If danger looms you can leave. Why all this pretense at protection from being taken advantage of? @@ One has to be very careful about choosing a teacher, but having done so all questioning must be set aside. @@ Questioning set aside? Is that what you would expect from your students Tom? No discussion, ! no questions, ! do as your told? Hmmmm @@ There have been a lot of teachers in my life but no one so far to whom I can give myself over to completely. I don't expect to find that here, but the routine is a strong habit. @@ Heh! You definitely wont find that here! At least not from me anyway. You are your own best teacher. Have you given yourself over to yourself yet? Try making that a routine and you will fare much better than looking outside to find what is waiting inside. @@ I'll probably stay a few weeks or a few months and then leave, having decided that I've gotten everything I can from here. It was not my intention to be rude, though. @@ Not your intention. Well I think the fruits of your stay have already been harvested. You have experienced a partial activation Tom and you are looking for a " teacher " to fill in the blank spaces. This is good and I can understand that. On the other hand you are in fear of being controlled, dominated, you are insecure in understanding what has happened and inventing a structure of strength by a facade of being " cooly aloof " unconcerned and not fully prepared to take any information gleaned as serious or worth your time and attention. OK. This is your choice. So now I will look at you.... You want to teach Kundalini and give Shaktipat without coming to terms with your own activation. Without addressing your fears and your imbalances. You feel powerful and frightend at the same time though not wanting to believe you are frightend for fear of it taking you over. There is domination. This domination theme you have is carried over from the dreams you are having. LOL. OH Yes! This can be seen! Oh.. Wait a minute.LOL... Let me call a clairvoyant I know!..LOL... don't want to fully immerse myself....let them take the heat..(calling all sacrificial clairvoyants)...LOL.....You will not shake these dreams Tom until you start acknowledging your strength as not being based in invulnerability but by being based in union with yourself. Vulnerable and Open to yourself " fully. " The dark qualities are aspects of you that are calling you by virtue of your having fear. Begin to forgive what occurs. Yourself and the others that are so active. Stop doing what you are told. Don't be afraid. - Ask questions that are honestly inquiring. Others have gone where you now tread and if you practice love and kindness without personal gain you will move much faster and with less attachments. - enjoy your stay - . TomSKinney wrote: It was very recently that I've arrived and this is not the first place I've come. It has gotten to be something of a habit to measure and evaluate places to see if it is okay to jump in fully and in faith. One has to be very careful about choosing a teacher, but having done so all questioning must be set aside. There have been a lot of teachers in my life but no one so far to whom I can give myself over to completely. I don't expect to find that here, but the routine is a strong habit. I'll probably stay a few weeks or a few months and then leave, having decided that I've gotten everything I can from here. It was not my intention to be rude, though. Tom sarceto Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:30 AM Re: testing the guru's superpowers Nice said Selena )) Namaste A. , " selena230 " <selena230 wrote: > > A warm welcome to you, Tom. I hope you find this list of your liking. > If I may add my two cents to the discussion on testing a " guru " 's > clairvoyance to figure out her or his spiritual advancement: in the > yoga tradition, supernatural powers (siddhis) are regarded as a > pitfall rather than an accomplishment. Seekers who develop siddhis and > actively use them lose sight of their spiritual purposes (there is too > much ego involved in impressing others). In the olden days, many of > them would end up becoming fakhirs instead--i.e., folks who make a > living by publicly performing " miracles " at big fairs. Nowadays, they > start a web site and charge you $200 for a reading (LOL). Bottom line: > the proof of genuine spirituality is not in miracles but rather in > ethics, selfless service, and humility. > > This said, I know that Chris is fiercely adverse to this kind of > testing. Isn't that right, Master? ;-) > > Sel > ________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 21, 2006 Thank you Shen, Yes search and destroy. He will come around I feel and I hope he can rejoin. - blessings Shen - chrism Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 21, 2006 My sense from the outset is/was simply that Tom's beans need more baking in the slow cooker of life(times), ... which would be why in part I posted the anecdote about Zopa Rinpoche waiting until someone 'left' before resuming the intended course, or did you already intuit that? metta. Alex chrism <> wrote: Thank you Shen, Yes search and destroy. He will come around I feel and I hope he can rejoin. - blessings Shen - chrism Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 21, 2006 So why does everyone ridicule him on his way out? Or am I misunderstanding? , richardstuart wrote: > > Just wanted to say there is lots here for all of us to ponder. > But must say too that i appreciate that you keep comments ......and the Disciplines of Using or activating ''K'',very clear. > > I notice that some visitors want to activate others or them selves very quickly without all the precautions. > Let me say as i'm sure others can that my first ''K''experience really knocked me for a six and it was ''restricted for me so i can manage''. > > Now of course i treat Theresa some of you have seen my posts................a more tragic situation than this i have yet to see. Which is ''K'' activation gone Wild. I don't see a way to put that Genie back in the bottle. In fact i always say there is always an answer ,''ask and you shall recieve.'' So i know for her that she must go inside for the answers,the problem is she is burning out in the Central Nervous System. Cannot listen to what i advise or suggest now because she is too far ''fried''. > > ''K'' fire is truly awsome and powerfull, if not done with prudence and good graces it will burn,both parties the activated and activator. > > So again i really appreciate your answers and the boundaries, and this site cannot become a place for Adulation of the teacher. > > Neither a place where huge ''K''explosions make others ill, or a site of Phenomena ''Hey did you hear about this guy!!! > That kind of phrase! > > So i too wish him well and pray for his Victory. > Always Victory R............................................... > - > > > Sunday, August 20, 2006 3:49 PM > Re: Re: testing the guru's superpowers > > > > Hello all, > Tom Kinney unsubbed today. I have wished him well on his path. I wrote a response to his post down below here and thought, with the help of others, that it might be to hurtful for him and so did not post it. Others on this list have indicated it has some intrinsic value as a teaching so I will post it and let you decide for yourself - > > > Hello Tom, > Please see below. - > > TomSKinney wrote: > It was very recently that I've arrived and this is not the first place I've come. It has gotten to be something of a habit to measure and evaluate places to see if it is okay to jump in fully and in faith. > > @@ Fully and in faith. Meaning that " now " you are partially in and without faith? And in order to find faith and safety for full immersion you are employing " clairvoyants " and testing by omission to come to an evaluation? Why? What is there to fear by being open and honest and friendly. If danger looms you can leave. Why all this pretense at protection from being taken advantage of? @@ > > > One has to be very careful about choosing a teacher, but having done so all questioning must be set aside. > > @@ Questioning set aside? Is that what you would expect from your students Tom? No discussion, ! no questions, ! do as your told? Hmmmm @@ > > > There have been a lot of teachers in my life but no one so far to whom I can give myself over to completely. I don't expect to find that here, but the routine is a strong habit. > > @@ Heh! You definitely wont find that here! At least not from me anyway. You are your own best teacher. Have you given yourself over to yourself yet? Try making that a routine and you will fare much better than looking outside to find what is waiting inside. @@ > > > I'll probably stay a few weeks or a few months and then leave, having decided that I've gotten everything I can from here. It was not my intention to be rude, though. > > @@ Not your intention. Well I think the fruits of your stay have already been harvested. You have experienced a partial activation Tom and you are looking for a " teacher " to fill in the blank spaces. This is good and I can understand that. On the other hand you are in fear of being controlled, dominated, you are insecure in understanding what has happened and inventing a structure of strength by a facade of being " cooly aloof " unconcerned and not fully prepared to take any information gleaned as serious or worth your time and attention. OK. This is your choice. So now I will look at you.... > > You want to teach Kundalini and give Shaktipat without coming to terms with your own activation. Without addressing your fears and your imbalances. You feel powerful and frightend at the same time though not wanting to believe you are frightend for fear of it taking you over. There is domination. > > This domination theme you have is carried over from the dreams you are having. LOL. OH Yes! This can be seen! Oh.. Wait a minute.LOL... Let me call a clairvoyant I know!..LOL... don't want to fully immerse myself....let them take the heat..(calling all sacrificial clairvoyants)...LOL.....You will not shake these dreams Tom until you start acknowledging your strength as not being based in invulnerability but by being based in union with yourself. Vulnerable and Open to yourself " fully. " > > The dark qualities are aspects of you that are calling you by virtue of your having fear. Begin to forgive what occurs. Yourself and the others that are so active. Stop doing what you are told. Don't be afraid. - Ask questions that are honestly inquiring. Others have gone where you now tread and if you practice love and kindness without personal gain you will move much faster and with less attachments. - enjoy your stay - > > . > > > > > TomSKinney wrote: > It was very recently that I've arrived and this is not the first place I've come. It has gotten to be something of a habit to measure and evaluate places to see if it is okay to jump in fully and in faith. One has to be very careful about choosing a teacher, but having done so all questioning must be set aside. There have been a lot of teachers in my life but no one so far to whom I can give myself over to completely. I don't expect to find that here, but the routine is a strong habit. I'll probably stay a few weeks or a few months and then leave, having decided that I've gotten everything I can from here. It was not my intention to be rude, though. > > Tom > > > sarceto > > Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:30 AM > Re: testing the guru's superpowers > > Nice said Selena )) > > Namaste > A. > > Kundalini-Awakening-Systems- 1 , " selena230 " > <selena230@> wrote: > > > > A warm welcome to you, Tom. I hope you find this list of your > liking. > > If I may add my two cents to the discussion on testing a " guru " 's > > clairvoyance to figure out her or his spiritual advancement: in the > > yoga tradition, supernatural powers (siddhis) are regarded as a > > pitfall rather than an accomplishment. Seekers who develop siddhis > and > > actively use them lose sight of their spiritual purposes (there is > too > > much ego involved in impressing others). In the olden days, many of > > them would end up becoming fakhirs instead--i.e., folks who make a > > living by publicly performing " miracles " at big fairs. Nowadays, > they > > start a web site and charge you $200 for a reading (LOL). Bottom > line: > > the proof of genuine spirituality is not in miracles but rather in > > ethics, selfless service, and humility. > > > > This said, I know that Chris is fiercely adverse to this kind of > > testing. Isn't that right, Master? ;-) > > > > Sel > > > > ________ > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 21, 2006 Heh! Yes Alex that was indeed clear! That was a very interesting and - imho - appropriate way to help him get the message. Thorns in the mud and sand in the soup only serve to cause hurt. He is the one now being hurt for a lack of some or any guidance at this point. I am not the only one who helps this way, there are many others, I presume. But as the activation within him is not allowing his (now) expanded ego (now creating fears) to accept guidance, he may find it difficult to accept any help. The ego will use any tool to keep its feeling of control, not understanding that it will never " lose " but only gain in surrendering to this flow. So his beans will be baked for a time. Then he will awaken again. - blessings Alex- chrism Dharma Wayfarer <dharmawayfarer wrote: My sense from the outset is/was simply that Tom's beans need more baking in the slow cooker of life(times), ... which would be why in part I posted the anecdote about Zopa Rinpoche waiting until someone 'left' before resuming the intended course, or did you already intuit that? metta. Alex chrism <> wrote: Thank you Shen, Yes search and destroy. He will come around I feel and I hope he can rejoin. - blessings Shen - chrism Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 21, 2006 I sent him the same e-mail and we will stay in as much contact as he wishes. I'm not sure I would use the word " ridicule " that would involve a degree of nastiness that I don't feel exists, but that's just me. I would say that if there are some residual feelings it would be of the nature of exasperation more than disrespect. Speaking for myself - asmallpanda <asmallpanda wrote: So why does everyone ridicule him on his way out? Or am I misunderstanding? , richardstuart wrote: > > Just wanted to say there is lots here for all of us to ponder. > But must say too that i appreciate that you keep comments ......and the Disciplines of Using or activating ''K'',very clear. > > I notice that some visitors want to activate others or them selves very quickly without all the precautions. > Let me say as i'm sure others can that my first ''K''experience really knocked me for a six and it was ''restricted for me so i can manage''. > > Now of course i treat Theresa some of you have seen my posts................a more tragic situation than this i have yet to see. Which is ''K'' activation gone Wild. I don't see a way to put that Genie back in the bottle. In fact i always say there is always an answer ,''ask and you shall recieve.'' So i know for her that she must go inside for the answers,the problem is she is burning out in the Central Nervous System. Cannot listen to what i advise or suggest now because she is too far ''fried''. > > ''K'' fire is truly awsome and powerfull, if not done with prudence and good graces it will burn,both parties the activated and activator. > > So again i really appreciate your answers and the boundaries, and this site cannot become a place for Adulation of the teacher. > > Neither a place where huge ''K''explosions make others ill, or a site of Phenomena ''Hey did you hear about this guy!!! > That kind of phrase! > > So i too wish him well and pray for his Victory. > Always Victory R............................................... > - > > > Sunday, August 20, 2006 3:49 PM > Re: Re: testing the guru's superpowers > > > > Hello all, > Tom Kinney unsubbed today. I have wished him well on his path. I wrote a response to his post down below here and thought, with the help of others, that it might be to hurtful for him and so did not post it. Others on this list have indicated it has some intrinsic value as a teaching so I will post it and let you decide for yourself - > > > Hello Tom, > Please see below. - > > TomSKinney wrote: > It was very recently that I've arrived and this is not the first place I've come. It has gotten to be something of a habit to measure and evaluate places to see if it is okay to jump in fully and in faith. > > @@ Fully and in faith. Meaning that " now " you are partially in and without faith? And in order to find faith and safety for full immersion you are employing " clairvoyants " and testing by omission to come to an evaluation? Why? What is there to fear by being open and honest and friendly. If danger looms you can leave. Why all this pretense at protection from being taken advantage of? @@ > > > One has to be very careful about choosing a teacher, but having done so all questioning must be set aside. > > @@ Questioning set aside? Is that what you would expect from your students Tom? No discussion, ! no questions, ! do as your told? Hmmmm @@ > > > There have been a lot of teachers in my life but no one so far to whom I can give myself over to completely. I don't expect to find that here, but the routine is a strong habit. > > @@ Heh! You definitely wont find that here! At least not from me anyway. You are your own best teacher. Have you given yourself over to yourself yet? Try making that a routine and you will fare much better than looking outside to find what is waiting inside. @@ > > > I'll probably stay a few weeks or a few months and then leave, having decided that I've gotten everything I can from here. It was not my intention to be rude, though. > > @@ Not your intention. Well I think the fruits of your stay have already been harvested. You have experienced a partial activation Tom and you are looking for a " teacher " to fill in the blank spaces. This is good and I can understand that. On the other hand you are in fear of being controlled, dominated, you are insecure in understanding what has happened and inventing a structure of strength by a facade of being " cooly aloof " unconcerned and not fully prepared to take any information gleaned as serious or worth your time and attention. OK. This is your choice. So now I will look at you.... > > You want to teach Kundalini and give Shaktipat without coming to terms with your own activation. Without addressing your fears and your imbalances. You feel powerful and frightend at the same time though not wanting to believe you are frightend for fear of it taking you over. There is domination. > > This domination theme you have is carried over from the dreams you are having. LOL. OH Yes! This can be seen! Oh.. Wait a minute.LOL... Let me call a clairvoyant I know!..LOL... don't want to fully immerse myself....let them take the heat..(calling all sacrificial clairvoyants)...LOL.....You will not shake these dreams Tom until you start acknowledging your strength as not being based in invulnerability but by being based in union with yourself. Vulnerable and Open to yourself " fully. " > > The dark qualities are aspects of you that are calling you by virtue of your having fear. Begin to forgive what occurs. Yourself and the others that are so active. Stop doing what you are told. Don't be afraid. - Ask questions that are honestly inquiring. Others have gone where you now tread and if you practice love and kindness without personal gain you will move much faster and with less attachments. - enjoy your stay - > > . > > > > > TomSKinney wrote: > It was very recently that I've arrived and this is not the first place I've come. It has gotten to be something of a habit to measure and evaluate places to see if it is okay to jump in fully and in faith. One has to be very careful about choosing a teacher, but having done so all questioning must be set aside. There have been a lot of teachers in my life but no one so far to whom I can give myself over to completely. I don't expect to find that here, but the routine is a strong habit. I'll probably stay a few weeks or a few months and then leave, having decided that I've gotten everything I can from here. It was not my intention to be rude, though. > > Tom > > > sarceto > > Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:30 AM > Re: testing the guru's superpowers > > Nice said Selena )) > > Namaste > A. > > Kundalini-Awakening-Systems- 1 , " selena230 " > <selena230@> wrote: > > > > A warm welcome to you, Tom. I hope you find this list of your > liking. > > If I may add my two cents to the discussion on testing a " guru " 's > > clairvoyance to figure out her or his spiritual advancement: in the > > yoga tradition, supernatural powers (siddhis) are regarded as a > > pitfall rather than an accomplishment. Seekers who develop siddhis > and > > actively use them lose sight of their spiritual purposes (there is > too > > much ego involved in impressing others). In the olden days, many of > > them would end up becoming fakhirs instead--i.e., folks who make a > > living by publicly performing " miracles " at big fairs. Nowadays, > they > > start a web site and charge you $200 for a reading (LOL). Bottom > line: > > the proof of genuine spirituality is not in miracles but rather in > > ethics, selfless service, and humility. > > > > This said, I know that Chris is fiercely adverse to this kind of > > testing. Isn't that right, Master? ;-) > > > > Sel > > > > ________ > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 22, 2006 Yep, l knew he would leave within 5 minutes......... I hope he finds what he is looking for. That was a great answer Chrism, I was feeling that too with him. A lot of fear and anxiety and yet the desire to full speed ahead without breaks. Oh well, bless you Tom x x x _________ Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All New Mail. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 22, 2006 Hi Small panda, I don't think that ridicule is the correct word, I think honest investigation of ourselves through others so we can discuss openly and hopefully not step in the same pit falls. We all make mistakes and we openly discuss them here with no malice. I don't want to become a vicitm of my ego and so it's good to observe and learn as we only see in others a reflection of ourself. Inlove elektra x x x --- asmallpanda <asmallpanda wrote: > So why does everyone ridicule him on his way out? Or > am I > misunderstanding? _________ All new Mail " The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use. " - PC Magazine http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 22, 2006 My mistake I was probably too quick to react. , Elektra Fire <elektra.fire wrote: > > Hi Small panda, > I don't think that ridicule is the correct word, I > think honest investigation of ourselves through others > so we can discuss openly and hopefully not step in the > same pit falls. > We all make mistakes and we openly discuss them here > with no malice. > I don't want to become a vicitm of my ego and so it's > good to observe and learn as we only see in others a > reflection of ourself. > > Inlove elektra x x x > > --- asmallpanda <asmallpanda wrote: > > > So why does everyone ridicule him on his way out? Or > > am I > > misunderstanding? _________ > All new Mail " The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use. " - PC Magazine > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
