before you order from amazon

[Guest guest]

you might want to know that they still deal in cock fighting and dog fighting

books and magazines!

 

http://www.amazon.com/Grit-and-Steel/dp/B00007AXOU/ref=pd_bbs_4?ie=UTF8 & s=magazi\

nes & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4

 

a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting guides and " history " books

(which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)

 

ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning a purchase from the

mega-giant net store this season

 

fraggle

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

“We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire

and six years later boasts that no one can put it out.†- Bill Moyers

[Guest guest]

bummer. however, i believe in a free press, even for shit that disgusts me, like this. i do not believe in banning books, even child porn. it's absurd that images/words on paper (on even online) can be " illegal " . laws against these sorts of books are " stepping stones " to laws against other kinds of books about unpopular topics, and it's a slippery slope from there.

but, like child porn and dog fighting, i support society's desire to outlaw these practices. off the soap box now...blake On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:45 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

you might want to know that they still deal in cock fighting and dog fighting books and magazines!

 

http://www.amazon.com/Grit-and-Steel/dp/B00007AXOU/ref=pd_bbs_4?ie=UTF8 & s=magazines & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4

 

a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting guides and " history " books

(which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)

 

ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning a purchase from the mega-giant net store this season

 

fraggle

 

"We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out." - Bill Moyers

[Guest guest]

That's how I feel. I don't support banning books. Let people be educated and make up their own minds as to what to buy.

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Blake Wilson <mbw wrote:

 

bummer. however, i believe in a free press, even for shit that disgusts me, like this. i do not believe in banning books, even child porn. it's absurd that images/words on paper (on even online) can be " illegal " . laws against these sorts of books are " stepping stones " to laws against other kinds of books about unpopular topics, and it's a slippery slope from there.

but, like child porn and dog fighting, i support society's desire to outlaw these practices. off the soap box now...blake

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:45 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

you might want to know that they still deal in cock fighting and dog fighting books and magazines!http://www.amazon.com/Grit-and-Steel/dp/B00007AXOU/ref=pd_bbs_4?ie=UTF8 & s=magazines & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4

a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting guides and " history " books(which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning a purchase from the mega-giant net store this season

fraggle " We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out. " - Bill Moyers

-- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com

~Boston_GothicBoston_MysticBoston-Pagans

[Guest guest]

Child porn should not be banned?

 

Don't you realise that the photos are of children being abused, and raped??? Is that okay with you ?????

 

Jo

 

 

-

Blake Wilson

Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:13 PM

Re: before you order from amazon

 

 

bummer. however, i believe in a free press, even for shit that disgusts me, like this. i do not believe in banning books, even child porn. it's absurd that images/words on paper (on even online) can be "illegal". laws against these sorts of books are "stepping stones" to laws against other kinds of books about unpopular topics, and it's a slippery slope from there. but, like child porn and dog fighting, i support society's desire to outlaw these practices. off the soap box now...blake

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:45 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote:

 

 

 

 

you might want to know that they still deal in cock fighting and dog fighting books and magazines!http://www.amazon.com/Grit-and-Steel/dp/B00007AXOU/ref=pd_bbs_4?ie=UTF8 & s=magazines & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting guides and "history" books(which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning a purchase from the mega-giant net store this seasonfraggle"We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out." - Bill Moyers

[Guest guest]

No but people should have the right to write about that or anything

else they want. Being ok with a book and being ok with an act is

not the same.

 

I play video games and read books about how to slay animals and people

better in the game. I don't do it in real life. I think you are

overreacting. No one said child porn was something to be condoned.

 

Maggie

 

 

 

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:35 PM, jo.heartwork <jo.heartwork wrote:

> Child porn should not be banned?

>

> Don't you realise that the photos are of children being abused, and

> raped??? Is that okay with you ?????

>

> Jo

[Guest guest]

not at all. the issue isn't whether the activity should be illegal, it's whether a film of illegal activity should be illegal. i don't believe photos and films can be illegal, regardless of their content. no exceptions.

there are all kinds of photos of criminal activity. there is nothing illegal about owning or viewing the Zapruder film which shows President Kennedy's head being blown off. banning child porn does not stop child sex abuse, and i'd suggest it prevents a lot of sick people from actually trying it out.

blake On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:35 PM, jo.heartwork <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Child porn should not be banned?

 

Don't you realise that the photos are of children being abused, and raped??? Is that okay with you ?????

 

Jo

 

 

-

 

Blake Wilson

Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:13 PM

Re: before you order from amazon

 

 

bummer. however, i believe in a free press, even for shit that disgusts me, like this. i do not believe in banning books, even child porn. it's absurd that images/words on paper (on even online) can be " illegal " . laws against these sorts of books are " stepping stones " to laws against other kinds of books about unpopular topics, and it's a slippery slope from there. but, like child porn and dog fighting, i support society's desire to outlaw these practices. off the soap box now...blake

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:45 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

 

 

 

you might want to know that they still deal in cock fighting and dog fighting books and magazines!http://www.amazon.com/Grit-and-Steel/dp/B00007AXOU/ref=pd_bbs_4?ie=UTF8 & s=magazines & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4

a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting guides and " history " books(which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning a purchase from the mega-giant net store this seasonfraggle " We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out. " - Bill Moyers

[Guest guest]

i never said anything about banning

its where you want to spend YOUR money

Blue Rose Dec 9, 2008 10:19 AM Re: before you order from amazon

 

 

 

That's how I feel. I don't support banning books. Let people be educated and make up their own minds as to what to buy.

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Blake Wilson <mbw wrote:

 

bummer. however, i believe in a free press, even for shit that disgusts me, like this. i do not believe in banning books, even child porn. it's absurd that images/words on paper (on even online) can be "illegal". laws against these sorts of books are "stepping stones" to laws against other kinds of books about unpopular topics, and it's a slippery slope from there. but, like child porn and dog fighting, i support society's desire to outlaw these practices. off the soap box now...blake

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:45 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

you might want to know that they still deal in cock fighting and dog fighting books and magazines!http://www.amazon.com/Grit-and-Steel/dp/B00007AXOU/ref=pd_bbs_4?ie=UTF8 & s=magazines & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting guides and "history" books(which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning a purchase from the mega-giant net store this seasonfraggle"We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out." - Bill Moyers -- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com~Boston_GothicBoston_MysticBoston-Pagans

 

 

 

 

 

 

For in a Republic, who is “the country� Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Mark Twain

[Guest guest]

Right. I was talking in reply to him in regards to that, but not to your statement.

I'm sure Amazon also sells books on why people who practice paganism and witchcraft should burn in hell, how the GLBT community will also be burning, and a ton of other stuff I would conceive as offensive.

 

Amazon just makes these books available. What about the PUBLISHERS and the AUTHORS? *They* are the ones responsible for putting the books out there.

 

In short...don't shoot the messenger.

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 3:49 PM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

 

i never said anything about banning

its where you want to spend YOUR money

 

Blue Rose Dec 9, 2008 10:19 AM

Re: before you order from amazon

 

 

 

 

That's how I feel. I don't support banning books. Let people be educated and make up their own minds as to what to buy.

 

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Blake Wilson <mbw wrote:

 

 

bummer. however, i believe in a free press, even for shit that disgusts me, like this. i do not believe in banning books, even child porn. it's absurd that images/words on paper (on even online) can be " illegal " . laws against these sorts of books are " stepping stones " to laws against other kinds of books about unpopular topics, and it's a slippery slope from there.

but, like child porn and dog fighting, i support society's desire to outlaw these practices. off the soap box now...blake

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:45 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

you might want to know that they still deal in cock fighting and dog fighting books and magazines!http://www.amazon.com/Grit-and-Steel/dp/B00007AXOU/ref=pd_bbs_4?ie=UTF8 & s=magazines & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4

a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting guides and " history " books(which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning a purchase from the mega-giant net store this season

fraggle " We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out. " - Bill Moyers

 

-- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com~Boston_Gothic

Boston_MysticBoston-Pagans

 

 

For in a Republic, who is "the country"? Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Mark Twain-- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com~Boston_Gothic

Boston_MysticBoston-Pagans

[Guest guest]

Still fighting the power eh Frag.?

Tell us about Wallmart..................

 

Peter vv

 

 

 

 

fraggle <EBbrewpunx Sent: Tuesday, 9 December, 2008 8:49:16 PMRe: before you order from amazon

 

 

i never said anything about banning

its where you want to spend YOUR money

Blue Rose Dec 9, 2008 10:19 AM @gro ups.com Re: before you order from amazon

 

 

 

That's how I feel. I don't support banning books. Let people be educated and make up their own minds as to what to buy.

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Blake Wilson <mbw wrote:

 

bummer. however, i believe in a free press, even for shit that disgusts me, like this. i do not believe in banning books, even child porn. it's absurd that images/words on paper (on even online) can be "illegal". laws against these sorts of books are "stepping stones" to laws against other kinds of books about unpopular topics, and it's a slippery slope from there. but, like child porn and dog fighting, i support society's desire to outlaw these practices. off the soap box now...blake

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:45 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

you might want to know that they still deal in cock fighting and dog fighting books and magazines!http://www.amazon. com/Grit- and-Steel/ dp/B00007AXOU/ ref=pd_bbs_ 4?ie=UTF8 & s=magazines & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting guides and "history" books(which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning a purchase from the mega-giant net store this seasonfraggle"We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out." - Bill Moyers -- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose- x.livejournal. com~http://groups. / group/Boston_ Gothichttp://groups. / group/Boston_ Mystichttp://groups. / group/Boston- Pagans

 

For in a Republic, who is “the country� Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them. Mark Twain

[Guest guest]

agreed. but i was feeling type-y so i typed. blake On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 1:49 PM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

i never said anything about banning

its where you want to spend YOUR money

Blue Rose Dec 9, 2008 10:19 AM

Re: before you order from amazon

 

 

 

That's how I feel. I don't support banning books. Let people be educated and make up their own minds as to what to buy.

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Blake Wilson <mbw wrote:

 

bummer. however, i believe in a free press, even for shit that disgusts me, like this. i do not believe in banning books, even child porn. it's absurd that images/words on paper (on even online) can be " illegal " . laws against these sorts of books are " stepping stones " to laws against other kinds of books about unpopular topics, and it's a slippery slope from there.

but, like child porn and dog fighting, i support society's desire to outlaw these practices. off the soap box now...blake

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:45 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

you might want to know that they still deal in cock fighting and dog fighting books and magazines!http://www.amazon.com/Grit-and-Steel/dp/B00007AXOU/ref=pd_bbs_4?ie=UTF8 & s=magazines & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4

a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting guides and " history " books(which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning a purchase from the mega-giant net store this season

fraggle " We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out. " - Bill Moyers

-- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com

~Boston_GothicBoston_Mystic

Boston-Pagans

For in a Republic, who is "the country"? Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Mark Twain

[Guest guest]

Good point, there are afew big book/film retailers out there who peddle undesirable , unsavourable, stuff that offensive to someone. The smaller houses suffer and fold. Big business getting bigger, fat cats getting fatter, morals ?, ethics? or business? do they mix?

 

Peter vv

 

 

 

 

Blue Rose <bluerose156 Sent: Tuesday, 9 December, 2008 8:53:14 PMRe: before you order from amazon

 

 

Right. I was talking in reply to him in regards to that, but not to your statement.

I'm sure Amazon also sells books on why people who practice paganism and witchcraft should burn in hell, how the GLBT community will also be burning, and a ton of other stuff I would conceive as offensive.

 

Amazon just makes these books available. What about the PUBLISHERS and the AUTHORS? *They* are the ones responsible for putting the books out there.

 

In short...don't shoot the messenger.

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 3:49 PM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net> wrote:

 

 

i never said anything about banning

its where you want to spend YOUR money

 

Blue Rose Dec 9, 2008 10:19 AM @gro ups.com

Re: before you order from amazon

 

 

 

 

That's how I feel. I don't support banning books. Let people be educated and make up their own minds as to what to buy.

 

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Blake Wilson <mbw wrote:

 

 

bummer. however, i believe in a free press, even for shit that disgusts me, like this. i do not believe in banning books, even child porn. it's absurd that images/words on paper (on even online) can be "illegal". laws against these sorts of books are "stepping stones" to laws against other kinds of books about unpopular topics, and it's a slippery slope from there. but, like child porn and dog fighting, i support society's desire to outlaw these practices. off the soap box now...blake

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:45 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

you might want to know that they still deal in cock fighting and dog fighting books and magazines!http://www.amazon. com/Grit- and-Steel/ dp/B00007AXOU/ ref=pd_bbs_ 4?ie=UTF8 & s=magazines & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting guides and "history" books(which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning a purchase from the mega-giant net store this seasonfraggle"We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out." - Bill Moyers

-- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose- x.livejournal. com~http://groups. / group/Boston_ Gothichttp://groups. / group/Boston_ Mystichttp://groups. / group/Boston- Pagans

 

 

For in a Republic, who is "the country"? Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them. Mark Twain-- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose- x.livejournal. com~http://groups. / group/Boston_ Gothichttp://groups. / group/Boston_ Mystichttp://groups. / group/Boston- Pagans

[Guest guest]

I am published with an indie publisher. When it comes down to the works they sell, Amazon.com doesn't and shouldn't receive the rap for them--THEY should. They are responsible for publishing it to begin with.

 

Boycotting Walmart in favor of the Moms and Pops I can comprehend. My aunt and uncle own a Mom & Pop floors and walls store that is losing business due to the economy and because of Lowes and Home Depot. I hate it when the smaller, often better quality places are driven out of town in favor of McBigStores.

 

But an issue like this? The publisher is where you take your beef to. If it were not for them, you wouldn't even see that book on the market.

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

 

 

 

 

Good point, there are afew big book/film retailers out there who peddle undesirable , unsavourable, stuff that offensive to someone. The smaller houses suffer and fold. Big business getting bigger, fat cats getting fatter, morals ?, ethics? or business? do they mix?

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

 

 

Blue Rose <bluerose156 Sent: Tuesday, 9 December, 2008 8:53:14 PM Re: before you order from amazon

 

 

 

Right. I was talking in reply to him in regards to that, but not to your statement.

I'm sure Amazon also sells books on why people who practice paganism and witchcraft should burn in hell, how the GLBT community will also be burning, and a ton of other stuff I would conceive as offensive.

 

Amazon just makes these books available. What about the PUBLISHERS and the AUTHORS? *They* are the ones responsible for putting the books out there.

 

In short...don't shoot the messenger.

 

 

 

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 3:49 PM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net> wrote:

 

 

i never said anything about banning

its where you want to spend YOUR money

 

Blue Rose Dec 9, 2008 10:19 AM @gro ups.com

Re: before you order from amazon

 

 

 

 

That's how I feel. I don't support banning books. Let people be educated and make up their own minds as to what to buy.

 

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Blake Wilson <mbw wrote:

 

 

bummer. however, i believe in a free press, even for shit that disgusts me, like this. i do not believe in banning books, even child porn. it's absurd that images/words on paper (on even online) can be " illegal " . laws against these sorts of books are " stepping stones " to laws against other kinds of books about unpopular topics, and it's a slippery slope from there.

but, like child porn and dog fighting, i support society's desire to outlaw these practices. off the soap box now...blake

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:45 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

you might want to know that they still deal in cock fighting and dog fighting books and magazines!http://www.amazon. com/Grit- and-Steel/ dp/B00007AXOU/ ref=pd_bbs_ 4?ie=UTF8 & s=magazines & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4

a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting guides and " history " books(which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning a purchase from the mega-giant net store this season

fraggle " We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out. " - Bill Moyers

 

-- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose- x.livejournal. com~http://groups. / group/Boston_ Gothic

http://groups. / group/Boston_ Mystichttp://groups. / group/Boston- Pagans

 

 

 

For in a Republic, who is " the country " ? Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Mark Twain-- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose- x.livejournal. com

~http://groups. / group/Boston_ Gothichttp://groups. / group/Boston_ Mystic

http://groups. / group/Boston- Pagans

 

-- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com

~Boston_GothicBoston_MysticBoston-Pagans

[Guest guest]

Right. Every dollar spent is a vote for " more " : more

bigboxes, or more farmers' markets and craft fairs and rummage sales?

more junk, or more wholesome food and useful stuff?

 

Still, I have to keep reminding myself. I fell for the 69 cent

avocado from Chile the other day instead of paying $2 for a California

avocado.

 

At 9:05 PM +0000 12/9/08, Peter VV wrote:

Still fighting the power eh Frag.?

Tell us about Wallmart..................

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

 

fraggle <EBbrewpunx

 

Tuesday, 9 December, 2008 8:49:16 PM

Re: before you order from amazon

 

i never said anything about banning

 

its where you want to spend YOUR money

 

 

Blue Rose

Dec 9, 2008 10:19 AM

@gro ups.com

Re: before you order from amazon

 

That's how I feel. I don't support banning books. Let people be

educated and make up their own minds as to what to buy.

 

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Blake Wilson <mbw wrote:

 

bummer. however, i believe in a free press, even for shit that

disgusts me, like this.

 

i do not believe in banning books, even child porn. it's absurd that

images/words on paper (on even online) can be " illegal " .

laws against these sorts of books are " stepping stones " to

laws against other kinds of books about unpopular topics, and it's a

slippery slope from there.

 

but, like child porn and dog fighting, i support society's desire to

outlaw these practices.

 

off the soap box now...

 

blake

 

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:45 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net>

wrote:

 

you might want to know that they still deal in cock fighting and

dog fighting books and magazines!

 

http://www.amazon. com/Grit- and-Steel/ dp/B00007AXOU/

ref=pd_bbs_

4?ie=UTF8 & s=magazines & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4

 

a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting guides and

" history " books

(which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)

 

ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning a purchase from

the mega-giant net store this season

 

fraggle

 

" We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the

house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out. "

- Bill Moyers

 

 

 

 

 

--

AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156

http://x-bluerose-

x.livejournal. com

~

http://groups.

/ group/Boston_ Gothic

http://groups.

/ group/Boston_ Mystic

http://groups.

/ group/Boston- Pagans

 

 

 

For in a Republic, who is "the country"? Is it the Government

which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a

servant-merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to

determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot

and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate

them.

Mark Twain

[Guest guest]

ya'll know about wal-mart..i don't have to say jack

hey, i admit it, i have never in the past, nor probably in the future, ever liked Amazon. add B & N, Ingram, and other mega chain stores into that pile as well.

read what you want. i definately never said "ban the books". i just said, "u spend yer money here, maybe you could spend it somewhere else"

up to yer own personal comfort level is all.

now amazon, amazon sux

heh heh

Peter VV Dec 9, 2008 1:05 PM Re: before you order from amazon

 

 

 

 

 

 

Still fighting the power eh Frag.?

Tell us about Wallmart..................

 

Peter vv

 

 

 

 

fraggle <EBbrewpunx (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> Sent: Tuesday, 9 December, 2008 8:49:16 PMRe: before you order from amazon

 

 

i never said anything about banning

its where you want to spend YOUR money

Blue Rose Dec 9, 2008 10:19 AM @gro ups.com Re: before you order from amazon

 

 

 

That's how I feel. I don't support banning books. Let people be educated and make up their own minds as to what to buy.

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Blake Wilson <mbw wrote:

 

bummer. however, i believe in a free press, even for shit that disgusts me, like this. i do not believe in banning books, even child porn. it's absurd that images/words on paper (on even online) can be "illegal". laws against these sorts of books are "stepping stones" to laws against other kinds of books about unpopular topics, and it's a slippery slope from there. but, like child porn and dog fighting, i support society's desire to outlaw these practices. off the soap box now...blake

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:45 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

you might want to know that they still deal in cock fighting and dog fighting books and magazines!http://www.amazon. com/Grit- and-Steel/ dp/B00007AXOU/ ref=pd_bbs_ 4?ie=UTF8 & s=magazines & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting guides and "history" books(which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning a purchase from the mega-giant net store this seasonfraggle"We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out." - Bill Moyers -- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose- x.livejournal. com~http://groups. / group/Boston_ Gothichttp://groups. / group/Boston_ Mystichttp://groups. / group/Boston- Pagans

 

For in a Republic, who is “the country� Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them. Mark Twain

 

 

 

 

 

 

For in a Republic, who is “the country� Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Mark Twain

[Guest guest]

too late

*bang*

*out pops little sign with "bang" printed on it*

i'm allowed to be grumpy..i went from no job to working 9 hrs a day 6 days a week. my lil head is spinning......you know the dizziness that causes? i'm amazed i can type,. as a matter of fact, there are probably 900 typos in here.

i need a nap

Blue Rose Dec 9, 2008 12:53 PM Re: before you order from amazon

 

 

 

 

Right. I was talking in reply to him in regards to that, but not to your statement.

I'm sure Amazon also sells books on why people who practice paganism and witchcraft should burn in hell, how the GLBT community will also be burning, and a ton of other stuff I would conceive as offensive.

 

Amazon just makes these books available. What about the PUBLISHERS and the AUTHORS? *They* are the ones responsible for putting the books out there.

 

In short...don't shoot the messenger.

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 3:49 PM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote:

 

 

i never said anything about banning

its where you want to spend YOUR money

 

Blue Rose Dec 9, 2008 10:19 AM

Re: before you order from amazon

 

 

 

 

That's how I feel. I don't support banning books. Let people be educated and make up their own minds as to what to buy.

 

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Blake Wilson <mbw wrote:

 

 

bummer. however, i believe in a free press, even for shit that disgusts me, like this. i do not believe in banning books, even child porn. it's absurd that images/words on paper (on even online) can be "illegal". laws against these sorts of books are "stepping stones" to laws against other kinds of books about unpopular topics, and it's a slippery slope from there. but, like child porn and dog fighting, i support society's desire to outlaw these practices. off the soap box now...blake

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:45 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

you might want to know that they still deal in cock fighting and dog fighting books and magazines!http://www.amazon.com/Grit-and-Steel/dp/B00007AXOU/ref=pd_bbs_4?ie=UTF8 & s=magazines & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting guides and "history" books(which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning a purchase from the mega-giant net store this seasonfraggle"We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out." - Bill Moyers

-- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com~Boston_GothicBoston_MysticBoston-Pagans

 

 

 

For in a Republic, who is "the country"? Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them. Mark Twain-- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com~Boston_GothicBoston_MysticBoston-Pagans

 

 

 

 

 

 

For in a Republic, who is “the country� Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Mark Twain

[Guest guest]

for a brief second after PGW went bye bye, i worked for the new company that took over,. they were definately of the latter persuasion. went from PGW, publishers of vegan cookbooks, GLBT books and the like, to Perseus, who published books by Ann Coulter and "why veganism was bad." that didn't last long

funny, they also published the oh so popular "skinny b*tch" vegan books as well.

 

Peter VV Dec 9, 2008 1:14 PM Re: before you order from amazon

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good point, there are afew big book/film retailers out there who peddle undesirable , unsavourable, stuff that offensive to someone. The smaller houses suffer and fold. Big business getting bigger, fat cats getting fatter, morals ?, ethics? or business? do they mix?

 

Peter vv

 

 

 

 

Blue Rose <bluerose156 > Sent: Tuesday, 9 December, 2008 8:53:14 PMRe: before you order from amazon

 

 

Right. I was talking in reply to him in regards to that, but not to your statement.

I'm sure Amazon also sells books on why people who practice paganism and witchcraft should burn in hell, how the GLBT community will also be burning, and a ton of other stuff I would conceive as offensive.

 

Amazon just makes these books available. What about the PUBLISHERS and the AUTHORS? *They* are the ones responsible for putting the books out there.

 

In short...don't shoot the messenger.

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 3:49 PM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net> wrote:

 

 

i never said anything about banning

its where you want to spend YOUR money

 

Blue Rose Dec 9, 2008 10:19 AM @gro ups.com

Re: before you order from amazon

 

 

 

 

That's how I feel. I don't support banning books. Let people be educated and make up their own minds as to what to buy.

 

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Blake Wilson <mbw wrote:

 

 

bummer. however, i believe in a free press, even for shit that disgusts me, like this. i do not believe in banning books, even child porn. it's absurd that images/words on paper (on even online) can be "illegal". laws against these sorts of books are "stepping stones" to laws against other kinds of books about unpopular topics, and it's a slippery slope from there. but, like child porn and dog fighting, i support society's desire to outlaw these practices. off the soap box now...blake

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:45 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

you might want to know that they still deal in cock fighting and dog fighting books and magazines!http://www.amazon. com/Grit- and-Steel/ dp/B00007AXOU/ ref=pd_bbs_ 4?ie=UTF8 & s=magazines & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting guides and "history" books(which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning a purchase from the mega-giant net store this seasonfraggle"We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out." - Bill Moyers

-- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose- x.livejournal. com~http://groups. / group/Boston_ Gothichttp://groups. / group/Boston_ Mystichttp://groups. / group/Boston- Pagans

 

 

For in a Republic, who is "the country"? Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them. Mark Twain-- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose- x.livejournal. com~http://groups. / group/Boston_ Gothichttp://groups. / group/Boston_ Mystichttp://groups. / group/Boston- Pagans

 

 

 

 

 

 

For in a Republic, who is “the country� Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant—merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Mark Twain

[Guest guest]

Hi BlakeActually, the purchase of child porn does encourage the activity. A large proportion of child pornography is produced for the gratification of the paying audience, not the people taking part in the acts. If it were perfectly legal to own and view child pornography, then there would be a legal incentive to produce it in the first place, and I feel that it is completely appropriate to make illegal anything which gives an incentive to sick people to abuse children.

Your comments about the Kennedy assassination are a poor analogy. Kennedy was assassinated and it was caught on film. He was *not* assassinated so that a cheap thrill could be given to a paying audience. " Snuff " films *are* illegal, and should remain so for precisely the same reason that child pornography should remain illegal - to ensure that there is as little incentive as possible for committing criminal and harmful acts.

BBPeter2008/12/9 Blake Wilson <mbw

 

not at all. the issue isn't whether the activity should be illegal, it's whether a film of illegal activity should be illegal. i don't believe photos and films can be illegal, regardless of their content. no exceptions.

there are all kinds of photos of criminal activity. there is nothing illegal about owning or viewing the Zapruder film which shows President Kennedy's head being blown off. banning child porn does not stop child sex abuse, and i'd suggest it prevents a lot of sick people from actually trying it out.

 

blake On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:35 PM, jo.heartwork <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Child porn should not be banned?

 

Don't you realise that the photos are of children being abused, and raped??? Is that okay with you ?????

 

Jo

 

 

-

 

Blake Wilson

Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:13 PM

Re: before you order from amazon

 

 

bummer. however, i believe in a free press, even for shit that disgusts me, like this. i do not believe in banning books, even child porn. it's absurd that images/words on paper (on even online) can be " illegal " . laws against these sorts of books are " stepping stones " to laws against other kinds of books about unpopular topics, and it's a slippery slope from there. but, like child porn and dog fighting, i support society's desire to outlaw these practices. off the soap box now...blake

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:45 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

 

 

 

you might want to know that they still deal in cock fighting and dog fighting books and magazines!http://www.amazon.com/Grit-and-Steel/dp/B00007AXOU/ref=pd_bbs_4?ie=UTF8 & s=magazines & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4

a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting guides and " history " books(which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning a purchase from the mega-giant net store this seasonfraggle " We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out. " - Bill Moyers

[Guest guest]

Peter, good points. I'd like to research it, but honestly, I am afraid to type " child porn " into my browser. Who knows what will come up, and who knows who's watching. Well, we know who's watching, right?

I viewed it in Amsterdam in a magazine shop. Bad stuff, but legal there. Your comment that it's " completely appropriate to make illegal anything which gives an incentive to sick people to abuse children " is pretty broad. And, its my understanding that lots of CP is " caught on tape " type stuff, i.e. naked kids running around at the beach. Kids are being " injured " per se, but certainly exploited. However, I'm willing to argue that far more kids are exploited by Hostess, Disney, McDonalds, Mattel, and their own parents and families, and to a greater extent, than the tiny minority injured by CP. We all want to protect kids from harm, but they are far more likely to be injured by Uncle Fisty and Supersized Happy Meals than the Cecil B. Demille of CP. So, what shall we make illegal to stop sickos like McDonalds from nutritionally abusing our children?

I don't think any court has ruled that snuff films are illegal; furthermore, I'm not familiar with any statutes criminalizing them (I am a criminal defense attorney, btw). And, I don't anyone has ever seen a snuff film in the first place, other than those produced by the Taliban, Al Quada, etc.

Interesting topics! Blake

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 3:31 AM, Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote:

 

 

 

 

Hi BlakeActually, the purchase of child porn does encourage the activity. A large proportion of child pornography is produced for the gratification of the paying audience, not the people taking part in the acts. If it were perfectly legal to own and view child pornography, then there would be a legal incentive to produce it in the first place, and I feel that it is completely appropriate to make illegal anything which gives an incentive to sick people to abuse children.

Your comments about the Kennedy assassination are a poor analogy. Kennedy was assassinated and it was caught on film. He was *not* assassinated so that a cheap thrill could be given to a paying audience. " Snuff " films *are* illegal, and should remain so for precisely the same reason that child pornography should remain illegal - to ensure that there is as little incentive as possible for committing criminal and harmful acts.

BBPeter2008/12/9 Blake Wilson <mbw

 

not at all. the issue isn't whether the activity should be illegal, it's whether a film of illegal activity should be illegal. i don't believe photos and films can be illegal, regardless of their content. no exceptions.

there are all kinds of photos of criminal activity. there is nothing illegal about owning or viewing the Zapruder film which shows President Kennedy's head being blown off. banning child porn does not stop child sex abuse, and i'd suggest it prevents a lot of sick people from actually trying it out.

 

blake On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:35 PM, jo.heartwork <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Child porn should not be banned?

 

Don't you realise that the photos are of children being abused, and raped??? Is that okay with you ?????

 

Jo

 

 

-

 

Blake Wilson

Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:13 PM

Re: before you order from amazon

 

 

bummer. however, i believe in a free press, even for shit that disgusts me, like this. i do not believe in banning books, even child porn. it's absurd that images/words on paper (on even online) can be " illegal " . laws against these sorts of books are " stepping stones " to laws against other kinds of books about unpopular topics, and it's a slippery slope from there. but, like child porn and dog fighting, i support society's desire to outlaw these practices. off the soap box now...blake

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:45 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

 

 

 

you might want to know that they still deal in cock fighting and dog fighting books and magazines!http://www.amazon.com/Grit-and-Steel/dp/B00007AXOU/ref=pd_bbs_4?ie=UTF8 & s=magazines & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4

a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting guides and " history " books(which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning a purchase from the mega-giant net store this seasonfraggle " We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out. " - Bill Moyers

[Guest guest]

Agreed completely.

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 5:31 AM, Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote:

 

Hi BlakeActually, the purchase of child porn does encourage the activity. A large proportion of child pornography is produced for the gratification of the paying audience, not the people taking part in the acts. If it were perfectly legal to own and view child pornography, then there would be a legal incentive to produce it in the first place, and I feel that it is completely appropriate to make illegal anything which gives an incentive to sick people to abuse children.

Your comments about the Kennedy assassination are a poor analogy. Kennedy was assassinated and it was caught on film. He was *not* assassinated so that a cheap thrill could be given to a paying audience. " Snuff " films *are* illegal, and should remain so for precisely the same reason that child pornography should remain illegal - to ensure that there is as little incentive as possible for committing criminal and harmful acts.

BBPeter

2008/12/9 Blake Wilson <mbw

 

 

 

not at all. the issue isn't whether the activity should be illegal, it's whether a film of illegal activity should be illegal. i don't believe photos and films can be illegal, regardless of their content. no exceptions.

there are all kinds of photos of criminal activity. there is nothing illegal about owning or viewing the Zapruder film which shows President Kennedy's head being blown off. banning child porn does not stop child sex abuse, and i'd suggest it prevents a lot of sick people from actually trying it out.

blake

 

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:35 PM, jo.heartwork <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Child porn should not be banned?

 

Don't you realise that the photos are of children being abused, and raped??? Is that okay with you ?????

 

Jo

 

 

 

 

-

Blake Wilson

 

Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:13 PM

Re: before you order from amazon

 

 

 

bummer. however, i believe in a free press, even for shit that disgusts me, like this. i do not believe in banning books, even child porn. it's absurd that images/words on paper (on even online) can be " illegal " . laws against these sorts of books are " stepping stones " to laws against other kinds of books about unpopular topics, and it's a slippery slope from there.

but, like child porn and dog fighting, i support society's desire to outlaw these practices. off the soap box now...blake

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:45 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

you might want to know that they still deal in cock fighting and dog fighting books and magazines!http://www.amazon.com/Grit-and-Steel/dp/B00007AXOU/ref=pd_bbs_4?ie=UTF8 & s=magazines & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4

a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting guides and " history " books(which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning a purchase from the mega-giant net store this season

fraggle " We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out. " - Bill Moyers

 

 

 

 

-- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com

~Boston_GothicBoston_MysticBoston-Pagans

[Guest guest]

Hi Blake

 

I quite agree with you about McDonalds. However, advertising to a child suggesting that it may choose to eat a hamburger, and forcibly raping a child against its will are quite different things. For a start, no child is forced by McDonalds to eat a McDonalds, so the analogy is very poor.

 

I believe in the UK, purchasing "snuff" films is considered to be "encitement to murder" or "being an accessory after the fact", which are criminal offences here (and I suspect is in the US as well).

 

BB

Peter

 

-

Blake Wilson

Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:34 PM

Re: before you order from amazon

Peter, good points. I'd like to research it, but honestly, I am afraid to type "child porn" into my browser. Who knows what will come up, and who knows who's watching. Well, we know who's watching, right? I viewed it in Amsterdam in a magazine shop. Bad stuff, but legal there. Your comment that it's "completely appropriate to make illegal anything which gives an incentive to sick people to abuse children" is pretty broad. And, its my understanding that lots of CP is "caught on tape" type stuff, i.e. naked kids running around at the beach. Kids are being "injured" per se, but certainly exploited. However, I'm willing to argue that far more kids are exploited by Hostess, Disney, McDonalds, Mattel, and their own parents and families, and to a greater extent, than the tiny minority injured by CP. We all want to protect kids from harm, but they are far more likely to be injured by Uncle Fisty and Supersized Happy Meals than the Cecil B. Demille of CP. So, what shall we make illegal to stop sickos like McDonalds from nutritionally abusing our children? I don't think any court has ruled that snuff films are illegal; furthermore, I'm not familiar with any statutes criminalizing them (I am a criminal defense attorney, btw). And, I don't anyone has ever seen a snuff film in the first place, other than those produced by the Taliban, Al Quada, etc. Interesting topics! Blake

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 3:31 AM, Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Hi BlakeActually, the purchase of child porn does encourage the activity. A large proportion of child pornography is produced for the gratification of the paying audience, not the people taking part in the acts. If it were perfectly legal to own and view child pornography, then there would be a legal incentive to produce it in the first place, and I feel that it is completely appropriate to make illegal anything which gives an incentive to sick people to abuse children.Your comments about the Kennedy assassination are a poor analogy. Kennedy was assassinated and it was caught on film. He was *not* assassinated so that a cheap thrill could be given to a paying audience. "Snuff" films *are* illegal, and should remain so for precisely the same reason that child pornography should remain illegal - to ensure that there is as little incentive as possible for committing criminal and harmful acts.BBPeter

2008/12/9 Blake Wilson <mbw

 

not at all. the issue isn't whether the activity should be illegal, it's whether a film of illegal activity should be illegal. i don't believe photos and films can be illegal, regardless of their content. no exceptions. there are all kinds of photos of criminal activity. there is nothing illegal about owning or viewing the Zapruder film which shows President Kennedy's head being blown off. banning child porn does not stop child sex abuse, and i'd suggest it prevents a lot of sick people from actually trying it out. blake

 

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:35 PM, jo.heartwork <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Child porn should not be banned?

 

Don't you realise that the photos are of children being abused, and raped??? Is that okay with you ?????

 

Jo

 

 

 

 

-

Blake Wilson

 

Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:13 PM

Re: before you order from amazon

 

 

 

bummer. however, i believe in a free press, even for shit that disgusts me, like this. i do not believe in banning books, even child porn. it's absurd that images/words on paper (on even online) can be "illegal". laws against these sorts of books are "stepping stones" to laws against other kinds of books about unpopular topics, and it's a slippery slope from there. but, like child porn and dog fighting, i support society's desire to outlaw these practices. off the soap box now...blake

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:45 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

you might want to know that they still deal in cock fighting and dog fighting books and magazines!http://www.amazon.com/Grit-and-Steel/dp/B00007AXOU/ref=pd_bbs_4?ie=UTF8 & s=magazines & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting guides and "history" books(which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning a purchase from the mega-giant net store this seasonfraggle"We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out." - Bill Moyers

[Guest guest]

Hi Peter:Maybe purchasing a snuff film is illegal....if you ever find one:http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/snuff.aspAgain, I am a criminal defense attorney. No such law exists here in the US. No way are you accessory to murder for buying films that, according to the link above, are myths in the first place. An accessory has some involvement with the crime itself (typically, hiding the weapon to help his buddies who committed the act). Obviously, if you're involved in the making of the film and you're whacking the " star " with a club, the fact that you're filming it is the least of your worries.

I once defended a guy who filmed himself cooking up some meth. The Feds raided an empty lab, with no clue as to who the chef was...until they found the video. Re McDonalds : I was trying draw upon your statement about " making anything illegal " in order to stop child abuse, which I thought could lead to some pretty wild situations due to the fact that " abuse " can be very broadly defined. Also, I'm trying to point out that there are far worse threats to a child's safety, health, and well-being than the remote possibility they are raped on film for some creep's enjoyment.

Blake On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Peter <metalscarab wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Blake

 

I quite agree with you about McDonalds. However, advertising to a child suggesting that it may choose to eat a hamburger, and forcibly raping a child against its will are quite different things. For a start, no child is forced by McDonalds to eat a McDonalds, so the analogy is very poor.

 

I believe in the UK, purchasing " snuff " films is considered to be " encitement to murder " or " being an accessory after the fact " , which are criminal offences here (and I suspect is in the US as well).

 

BB

Peter

 

-

 

Blake Wilson

 

Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:34 PM

Re: before you order from amazon

Peter, good points. I'd like to research it, but honestly, I am afraid to type " child porn " into my browser. Who knows what will come up, and who knows who's watching. Well, we know who's watching, right? I viewed it in Amsterdam in a magazine shop. Bad stuff, but legal there. Your comment that it's " completely appropriate to make illegal anything which gives an incentive to sick people to abuse children " is pretty broad. And, its my understanding that lots of CP is " caught on tape " type stuff, i.e. naked kids running around at the beach. Kids are being " injured " per se, but certainly exploited. However, I'm willing to argue that far more kids are exploited by Hostess, Disney, McDonalds, Mattel, and their own parents and families, and to a greater extent, than the tiny minority injured by CP. We all want to protect kids from harm, but they are far more likely to be injured by Uncle Fisty and Supersized Happy Meals than the Cecil B. Demille of CP. So, what shall we make illegal to stop sickos like McDonalds from nutritionally abusing our children? I don't think any court has ruled that snuff films are illegal; furthermore, I'm not familiar with any statutes criminalizing them (I am a criminal defense attorney, btw). And, I don't anyone has ever seen a snuff film in the first place, other than those produced by the Taliban, Al Quada, etc. Interesting topics! Blake

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 3:31 AM, Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Hi BlakeActually, the purchase of child porn does encourage the activity. A large proportion of child pornography is produced for the gratification of the paying audience, not the people taking part in the acts. If it were perfectly legal to own and view child pornography, then there would be a legal incentive to produce it in the first place, and I feel that it is completely appropriate to make illegal anything which gives an incentive to sick people to abuse children.Your comments about the Kennedy assassination are a poor analogy. Kennedy was assassinated and it was caught on film. He was *not* assassinated so that a cheap thrill could be given to a paying audience. " Snuff " films *are* illegal, and should remain so for precisely the same reason that child pornography should remain illegal - to ensure that there is as little incentive as possible for committing criminal and harmful acts.BBPeter

2008/12/9 Blake Wilson <mbw

 

not at all. the issue isn't whether the activity should be illegal, it's whether a film of illegal activity should be illegal. i don't believe photos and films can be illegal, regardless of their content. no exceptions. there are all kinds of photos of criminal activity. there is nothing illegal about owning or viewing the Zapruder film which shows President Kennedy's head being blown off. banning child porn does not stop child sex abuse, and i'd suggest it prevents a lot of sick people from actually trying it out. blake

 

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:35 PM, jo.heartwork <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Child porn should not be banned?

 

Don't you realise that the photos are of children being abused, and raped??? Is that okay with you ?????

 

Jo

 

 

 

 

-

Blake Wilson

 

Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:13 PM

Re: before you order from amazon

 

 

 

bummer. however, i believe in a free press, even for shit that disgusts me, like this. i do not believe in banning books, even child porn. it's absurd that images/words on paper (on even online) can be " illegal " . laws against these sorts of books are " stepping stones " to laws against other kinds of books about unpopular topics, and it's a slippery slope from there. but, like child porn and dog fighting, i support society's desire to outlaw these practices. off the soap box now...blake

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:45 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

you might want to know that they still deal in cock fighting and dog fighting books and magazines!http://www.amazon.com/Grit-and-Steel/dp/B00007AXOU/ref=pd_bbs_4?ie=UTF8 & s=magazines & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4

a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting guides and " history " books(which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning a purchase from the mega-giant net store this seasonfraggle " We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out. " - Bill Moyers

[Guest guest]

Me too

 

Jo

 

 

 

-

Blue Rose

Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:44 PM

Re: before you order from amazon

 

 

Agreed completely.

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 5:31 AM, Peter Kebbell <metalscarab > wrote:

 

Hi BlakeActually, the purchase of child porn does encourage the activity. A large proportion of child pornography is produced for the gratification of the paying audience, not the people taking part in the acts. If it were perfectly legal to own and view child pornography, then there would be a legal incentive to produce it in the first place, and I feel that it is completely appropriate to make illegal anything which gives an incentive to sick people to abuse children.Your comments about the Kennedy assassination are a poor analogy. Kennedy was assassinated and it was caught on film. He was *not* assassinated so that a cheap thrill could be given to a paying audience. "Snuff" films *are* illegal, and should remain so for precisely the same reason that child pornography should remain illegal - to ensure that there is as little incentive as possible for committing criminal and harmful acts.BBPeter

2008/12/9 Blake Wilson <mbw

 

 

 

not at all. the issue isn't whether the activity should be illegal, it's whether a film of illegal activity should be illegal. i don't believe photos and films can be illegal, regardless of their content. no exceptions. there are all kinds of photos of criminal activity. there is nothing illegal about owning or viewing the Zapruder film which shows President Kennedy's head being blown off. banning child porn does not stop child sex abuse, and i'd suggest it prevents a lot of sick people from actually trying it out. blake

 

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:35 PM, jo.heartwork <jo.heartwork > wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Child porn should not be banned?

 

Don't you realise that the photos are of children being abused, and raped??? Is that okay with you ?????

 

Jo

 

 

 

 

-

Blake Wilson

 

Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:13 PM

Re: before you order from amazon

 

 

 

bummer. however, i believe in a free press, even for shit that disgusts me, like this. i do not believe in banning books, even child porn. it's absurd that images/words on paper (on even online) can be "illegal". laws against these sorts of books are "stepping stones" to laws against other kinds of books about unpopular topics, and it's a slippery slope from there. but, like child porn and dog fighting, i support society's desire to outlaw these practices. off the soap box now...blake

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:45 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

you might want to know that they still deal in cock fighting and dog fighting books and magazines!http://www.amazon.com/Grit-and-Steel/dp/B00007AXOU/ref=pd_bbs_4?ie=UTF8 & s=magazines & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting guides and "history" books(which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning a purchase from the mega-giant net store this seasonfraggle"We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out." - Bill Moyers

 

 

 

-- AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com~Boston_GothicBoston_MysticBoston-Pagans

[Guest guest]

I don't like your comment about child rape at all.

 

Jo

 

, " Blake Wilson " <mbw wrote:

>

> Hi Peter:

>

> Maybe purchasing a snuff film is illegal....if you ever find one:

>

> http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/snuff.asp

>

> Again, I am a criminal defense attorney. No such law exists here in

the US.

> No way are you accessory to murder for buying films that, according

to the

> link above, are myths in the first place. An accessory has some

involvement

> with the crime itself (typically, hiding the weapon to help his

buddies who

> committed the act). Obviously, if you're involved in the making of

the film

> and you're whacking the " star " with a club, the fact that you're

filming it

> is the least of your worries.

>

> I once defended a guy who filmed himself cooking up some meth. The

Feds

> raided an empty lab, with no clue as to who the chef was...until

they found

> the video.

>

> Re McDonalds : I was trying draw upon your statement about " making

anything

> illegal " in order to stop child abuse, which I thought could lead

to some

> pretty wild situations due to the fact that " abuse " can be very

broadly

> defined. Also, I'm trying to point out that there are far worse

threats to a

> child's safety, health, and well-being than the remote possibility

they are

> raped on film for some creep's enjoyment.

>

> Blake

>

>

>

> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Peter <metalscarab wrote:

>

> > Hi Blake

> >

> > I quite agree with you about McDonalds. However, advertising to a

child

> > suggesting that it may choose to eat a hamburger, and forcibly

raping a

> > child against its will are quite different things. For a start,

no child is

> > forced by McDonalds to eat a McDonalds, so the analogy is very

poor.

> >

> > I believe in the UK, purchasing " snuff " films is considered to be

> > " encitement to murder " or " being an accessory after the fact " ,

which are

> > criminal offences here (and I suspect is in the US as well).

> >

> > BB

> > Peter

> >

> > -

> > ** Blake Wilson <mbw

> > *To:*

> > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:34 PM

> > *Subject:* Re: before you order from amazon

> >

> > Peter, good points. I'd like to research it, but honestly, I am

afraid to

> > type " child porn " into my browser. Who knows what will come up,

and who

> > knows who's watching. Well, we know who's watching, right?

> >

> > I viewed it in Amsterdam in a magazine shop. Bad stuff, but legal

there.

> >

> > Your comment that it's " completely appropriate to make illegal

anything

> > which gives an incentive to sick people to abuse children " is

pretty broad.

> > And, its my understanding that lots of CP is " caught on tape "

type stuff,

> > i.e. naked kids running around at the beach. Kids are

being " injured " per

> > se, but certainly exploited. However, I'm willing to argue that

far more

> > kids are exploited by Hostess, Disney, McDonalds, Mattel, and

their own

> > parents and families, and to a greater extent, than the tiny

minority

> > injured by CP. We all want to protect kids from harm, but they

are far more

> > likely to be injured by Uncle Fisty and Supersized Happy Meals

than the

> > Cecil B. Demille of CP. So, what shall we make illegal to stop

sickos like

> > McDonalds from nutritionally abusing our children?

> >

> > I don't think any court has ruled that snuff films are illegal;

> > furthermore, I'm not familiar with any statutes criminalizing

them (I am a

> > criminal defense attorney, btw). And, I don't anyone has ever

seen a snuff

> > film in the first place, other than those produced by the

Taliban, Al Quada,

> > etc.

> >

> > Interesting topics!

> >

> > Blake

> >

> >

> > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 3:31 AM, Peter Kebbell

<metalscarabwrote:

> >

> >> Hi Blake

> >>

> >> Actually, the purchase of child porn does encourage the

activity. A large

> >> proportion of child pornography is produced for the

gratification of the

> >> paying audience, not the people taking part in the acts. If it

were

> >> perfectly legal to own and view child pornography, then there

would be a

> >> legal incentive to produce it in the first place, and I feel

that it is

> >> completely appropriate to make illegal anything which gives an

incentive to

> >> sick people to abuse children.

> >>

> >> Your comments about the Kennedy assassination are a poor

analogy. Kennedy

> >> was assassinated and it was caught on film. He was *not*

assassinated so

> >> that a cheap thrill could be given to a paying audience. " Snuff "

films *are*

> >> illegal, and should remain so for precisely the same reason that

child

> >> pornography should remain illegal - to ensure that there is as

little

> >> incentive as possible for committing criminal and harmful acts.

> >>

> >> BB

> >> Peter

> >>

> >> 2008/12/9 Blake Wilson <mbw

> >>

> >>> not at all. the issue isn't whether the activity should be

illegal, it's

> >>> whether a film of illegal activity should be illegal. i don't

believe photos

> >>> and films can be illegal, regardless of their content. no

exceptions.

> >>>

> >>> there are all kinds of photos of criminal activity. there is

nothing

> >>> illegal about owning or viewing the Zapruder film which shows

President

> >>> Kennedy's head being blown off.

> >>>

> >>> banning child porn does not stop child sex abuse, and i'd

suggest it

> >>> prevents a lot of sick people from actually trying it out.

> >>>

> >>> blake

> >>>

> >>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:35 PM, jo.heartwork

<jo.heartworkwrote:

> >>>

> >>>> Child porn should not be banned?

> >>>>

> >>>> Don't you realise that the photos are of children being

abused, and

> >>>> raped??? Is that okay with you ?????

> >>>>

> >>>> Jo

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> -

> >>>> ** Blake Wilson <mbw

> >>>> *To:*

> >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:13 PM

> >>>> *Subject:* Re: before you order from amazon

> >>>>

> >>>> bummer. however, i believe in a free press, even for shit that

> >>>> disgusts me, like this.

> >>>>

> >>>> i do not believe in banning books, even child porn. it's

absurd that

> >>>> images/words on paper (on even online) can be " illegal " . laws

against these

> >>>> sorts of books are " stepping stones " to laws against other

kinds of books

> >>>> about unpopular topics, and it's a slippery slope from there.

> >>>>

> >>>> but, like child porn and dog fighting, i support society's

desire to

> >>>> outlaw these practices.

> >>>>

> >>>> off the soap box now...

> >>>>

> >>>> blake

> >>>>

> >>>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:45 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunxwrote:

> >>>>

> >>>>> you might want to know that they still deal in cock

fighting and dog

> >>>>> fighting books and magazines!

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Grit-and-

Steel/dp/B00007AXOU/ref=pd_bbs_4?

ie=UTF8 & s=magazines & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4

> >>>>>

> >>>>> a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting guides

and " history "

> >>>>> books

> >>>>> (which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)

> >>>>>

> >>>>> ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning a

purchase from

> >>>>> the mega-giant net store this season

> >>>>>

> >>>>> fraggle

> >>>>>

> >>>>> " We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets

the house

> >>>>> on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it

out. " - Bill

> >>>>> Moyers

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>

> >>>

> >>

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

As you say, Peter, there is no comparison.

 

Snuff films and child pornography are sick. McDonalds is unpleasant.

 

BB

Jo

 

, " Peter " <metalscarab wrote:

>

> Hi Blake

>

> I quite agree with you about McDonalds. However, advertising to a

child suggesting that it may choose to eat a hamburger, and forcibly

raping a child against its will are quite different things. For a

start, no child is forced by McDonalds to eat a McDonalds, so the

analogy is very poor.

>

> I believe in the UK, purchasing " snuff " films is considered to

be " encitement to murder " or " being an accessory after the fact " ,

which are criminal offences here (and I suspect is in the US as well).

>

> BB

> Peter

> -

> Blake Wilson

>

> Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:34 PM

> Re: before you order from amazon

>

>

> Peter, good points. I'd like to research it, but honestly, I am

afraid to type " child porn " into my browser. Who knows what will come

up, and who knows who's watching. Well, we know who's watching,

right?

>

> I viewed it in Amsterdam in a magazine shop. Bad stuff, but legal

there.

>

> Your comment that it's " completely appropriate to make illegal

anything which gives an incentive to sick people to abuse children "

is pretty broad. And, its my understanding that lots of CP is " caught

on tape " type stuff, i.e. naked kids running around at the beach.

Kids are being " injured " per se, but certainly exploited. However,

I'm willing to argue that far more kids are exploited by Hostess,

Disney, McDonalds, Mattel, and their own parents and families, and to

a greater extent, than the tiny minority injured by CP. We all want

to protect kids from harm, but they are far more likely to be injured

by Uncle Fisty and Supersized Happy Meals than the Cecil B. Demille

of CP. So, what shall we make illegal to stop sickos like McDonalds

from nutritionally abusing our children?

>

> I don't think any court has ruled that snuff films are illegal;

furthermore, I'm not familiar with any statutes criminalizing them (I

am a criminal defense attorney, btw). And, I don't anyone has ever

seen a snuff film in the first place, other than those produced by

the Taliban, Al Quada, etc.

>

> Interesting topics!

>

> Blake

>

>

>

> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 3:31 AM, Peter Kebbell <metalscarab

wrote:

>

> Hi Blake

>

> Actually, the purchase of child porn does encourage the

activity. A large proportion of child pornography is produced for the

gratification of the paying audience, not the people taking part in

the acts. If it were perfectly legal to own and view child

pornography, then there would be a legal incentive to produce it in

the first place, and I feel that it is completely appropriate to make

illegal anything which gives an incentive to sick people to abuse

children.

>

> Your comments about the Kennedy assassination are a poor

analogy. Kennedy was assassinated and it was caught on film. He was

*not* assassinated so that a cheap thrill could be given to a paying

audience. " Snuff " films *are* illegal, and should remain so for

precisely the same reason that child pornography should remain

illegal - to ensure that there is as little incentive as possible for

committing criminal and harmful acts.

>

> BB

> Peter

>

>

>

> 2008/12/9 Blake Wilson <mbw

>

> not at all. the issue isn't whether the activity should be

illegal, it's whether a film of illegal activity should be illegal. i

don't believe photos and films can be illegal, regardless of their

content. no exceptions.

>

> there are all kinds of photos of criminal activity. there is

nothing illegal about owning or viewing the Zapruder film which shows

President Kennedy's head being blown off.

>

> banning child porn does not stop child sex abuse, and i'd

suggest it prevents a lot of sick people from actually trying it out.

>

> blake

>

>

> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:35 PM, jo.heartwork

<jo.heartwork wrote:

>

>

> Child porn should not be banned?

>

> Don't you realise that the photos are of children being

abused, and raped??? Is that okay with you ?????

>

> Jo

>

> -

> Blake Wilson

>

> Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:13 PM

> Re: before you order from amazon

>

>

> bummer. however, i believe in a free press, even for shit

that disgusts me, like this.

>

> i do not believe in banning books, even child porn. it's

absurd that images/words on paper (on even online) can be " illegal " .

laws against these sorts of books are " stepping stones " to laws

against other kinds of books about unpopular topics, and it's a

slippery slope from there.

>

> but, like child porn and dog fighting, i support

society's desire to outlaw these practices.

>

> off the soap box now...

>

> blake

>

>

>

> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:45 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx

wrote:

>

> you might want to know that they still deal in cock

fighting and dog fighting books and magazines!

>

> http://www.amazon.com/Grit-and-

Steel/dp/B00007AXOU/ref=pd_bbs_4?

ie=UTF8 & s=magazines & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4

>

> a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting

guides and " history " books

> (which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)

>

> ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning

a purchase from the mega-giant net store this season

>

> fraggle

>

> " We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who

sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put

it out. " - Bill Moyers

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Blake

 

Strikes me that as a defense attorney, you are obviously used to presenting a case and arguing, and you seem to enjoy it. As a research historian, I am also very used to presenting a case and arguing it. While you may have more knowledge of the laws, my professional training has me very used to dealing with analogy, and spotting when analogies are being made due to their appropriateness, or due to their inflamatory (and usually inaccurate) nature to try to provoke a response. As a result, you'll usually find I'll just point out the flaws in the logic rather than give you what you want.

 

Incidentally, please also remember that snopes is a website. In my profession we consider websites to be highly untrustworthy sources, as there is no peer review over them. Just because snopes says something is a myth, does not make it so. It is also pretty much impossible to prove the non-existence of something, since lack of evidence is by no means the same as evidence of a lack of. But I guess historians deal in a multitude of shades of grey, while defence attorneys deal with polar opposites (guilty or not-guilty).

 

However, as a defense attorney, you must know that there is a legal definition of child abuse, and that feeding a child McDonalds food does not come into that legal definition.

 

So, if you wish to treat this debate as a court room, then please do so with the professionalism you would treat a court room, and give up with the unsupportable statements that would have another defense attorney walking all over your case. Just because I am not a defense attorney, does not make me an idiot.

 

BB

Peter

 

 

-

 

Blake Wilson

Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:17 PM

Re: before you order from amazon

Hi Peter:Maybe purchasing a snuff film is illegal....if you ever find one:http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/snuff.aspAgain, I am a criminal defense attorney. No such law exists here in the US. No way are you accessory to murder for buying films that, according to the link above, are myths in the first place. An accessory has some involvement with the crime itself (typically, hiding the weapon to help his buddies who committed the act). Obviously, if you're involved in the making of the film and you're whacking the "star" with a club, the fact that you're filming it is the least of your worries. I once defended a guy who filmed himself cooking up some meth. The Feds raided an empty lab, with no clue as to who the chef was...until they found the video. Re McDonalds : I was trying draw upon your statement about "making anything illegal" in order to stop child abuse, which I thought could lead to some pretty wild situations due to the fact that "abuse" can be very broadly defined. Also, I'm trying to point out that there are far worse threats to a child's safety, health, and well-being than the remote possibility they are raped on film for some creep's enjoyment. Blake

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Peter <metalscarab wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Blake

 

I quite agree with you about McDonalds. However, advertising to a child suggesting that it may choose to eat a hamburger, and forcibly raping a child against its will are quite different things. For a start, no child is forced by McDonalds to eat a McDonalds, so the analogy is very poor.

 

I believe in the UK, purchasing "snuff" films is considered to be "encitement to murder" or "being an accessory after the fact", which are criminal offences here (and I suspect is in the US as well).

 

BB

Peter

 

 

-

Blake Wilson

 

 

 

Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:34 PM

Re: before you order from amazon

Peter, good points. I'd like to research it, but honestly, I am afraid to type "child porn" into my browser. Who knows what will come up, and who knows who's watching. Well, we know who's watching, right? I viewed it in Amsterdam in a magazine shop. Bad stuff, but legal there. Your comment that it's "completely appropriate to make illegal anything which gives an incentive to sick people to abuse children" is pretty broad. And, its my understanding that lots of CP is "caught on tape" type stuff, i.e. naked kids running around at the beach. Kids are being "injured" per se, but certainly exploited. However, I'm willing to argue that far more kids are exploited by Hostess, Disney, McDonalds, Mattel, and their own parents and families, and to a greater extent, than the tiny minority injured by CP. We all want to protect kids from harm, but they are far more likely to be injured by Uncle Fisty and Supersized Happy Meals than the Cecil B. Demille of CP. So, what shall we make illegal to stop sickos like McDonalds from nutritionally abusing our children? I don't think any court has ruled that snuff films are illegal; furthermore, I'm not familiar with any statutes criminalizing them (I am a criminal defense attorney, btw). And, I don't anyone has ever seen a snuff film in the first place, other than those produced by the Taliban, Al Quada, etc. Interesting topics! Blake

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 3:31 AM, Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Hi BlakeActually, the purchase of child porn does encourage the activity. A large proportion of child pornography is produced for the gratification of the paying audience, not the people taking part in the acts. If it were perfectly legal to own and view child pornography, then there would be a legal incentive to produce it in the first place, and I feel that it is completely appropriate to make illegal anything which gives an incentive to sick people to abuse children.Your comments about the Kennedy assassination are a poor analogy. Kennedy was assassinated and it was caught on film. He was *not* assassinated so that a cheap thrill could be given to a paying audience. "Snuff" films *are* illegal, and should remain so for precisely the same reason that child pornography should remain illegal - to ensure that there is as little incentive as possible for committing criminal and harmful acts.BBPeter

2008/12/9 Blake Wilson <mbw

 

not at all. the issue isn't whether the activity should be illegal, it's whether a film of illegal activity should be illegal. i don't believe photos and films can be illegal, regardless of their content. no exceptions. there are all kinds of photos of criminal activity. there is nothing illegal about owning or viewing the Zapruder film which shows President Kennedy's head being blown off. banning child porn does not stop child sex abuse, and i'd suggest it prevents a lot of sick people from actually trying it out. blake

 

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:35 PM, jo.heartwork <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Child porn should not be banned?

 

Don't you realise that the photos are of children being abused, and raped??? Is that okay with you ?????

 

Jo

 

 

 

 

-

Blake Wilson

 

Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:13 PM

Re: before you order from amazon

 

 

 

bummer. however, i believe in a free press, even for shit that disgusts me, like this. i do not believe in banning books, even child porn. it's absurd that images/words on paper (on even online) can be "illegal". laws against these sorts of books are "stepping stones" to laws against other kinds of books about unpopular topics, and it's a slippery slope from there. but, like child porn and dog fighting, i support society's desire to outlaw these practices. off the soap box now...blake

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:45 AM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

you might want to know that they still deal in cock fighting and dog fighting books and magazines!http://www.amazon.com/Grit-and-Steel/dp/B00007AXOU/ref=pd_bbs_4?ie=UTF8 & s=magazines & qid=1228840916 & sr=8-4a quick search shows a number of beginner fighting guides and "history" books(which also will bring up totally un-related subjects)ya'll might want to consider this if you were planning a purchase from the mega-giant net store this seasonfraggle"We now know that a neo-conservative is an arsonist who sets the house on fire and six years later boasts that no one can put it out." - Bill Moyers