Guest guest Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 I think I may choose not to eat fish anymore. I don't see it being a problem, only for one thing, LOBSTER TAIL.OK, two things, lobster tail and crabs. I need to think this over real good. Blessings, Chanda - Diamond Dog Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:20 PM Re: Re: is fish meat? Um, no. They aren't. No brain stem or central nervous system. I believe Animal Liberation goes into it somewhat. Veronica At 09:37 PM 12/7/2004 +0000, you wrote: >Strictly speaking, so are vegetables. > > , " Debra Lee Thompson " ><Debrathompson@f...> wrote: > > > > Yes, they are sentient - Peta has a great article on it on their > > website:) > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 In a message dated 12/7/2004 1:18:00 PM Central Standard Time, writes: According to my cooking Thai fish sauce has nothing to do with fish, only that it contains anchovy extract. When I make fish I don't use fish sauce. Most people use fish sauce to perk up the flavor of noodle dishes etc. My kids are meat eaters and love Thai food, but if they read the label and saw anchovy extract I think they would just die, LOL. I had to carve a roast beef last night for the family. (my mom made it and brought it over, nice mom) ughhhhh. It was not nice. I am going to hate cooking for them now. Geez, and the dishes used to be the worst part. Not anymore I still consider fish meat, so I won't be able to eat that. Anchovy is still meat, I think anway. Does anyone else eat fish or do you consider that not meat? Theresa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 I put it down to aspirations and the feeling of pain. This is just my opinion of course, but I think we are all part of the wheel of life, but humans are at the top and have sympathy and empathy, we have to eat, but I believe we should make it as painless as possible. A dog has aspirations. They love a car ride, or a walk, or mommy's bed. Pigs are no different, they have aspirations and feel pain too. Up until this group I had thought that fish don't feel pain. Now I learned they do. I don't think I will be eating fish anymore. I realize in someplace in the world they must eat fish and even animals, like drastically cold regions, like that of Eskimos etc. I just feel that they wouldn't get the same karma for eating the meat as I would going to the guise of my supermarket shelf and buying it when I have a choice. I don't think plants feel pain, but then again, how can one ever tell? I won't ever know, but I must eat, so at very worst, from them I will get the only food karma if any that I will get. Blessings, Chanda/Maria - psybermus Wednesday, December 08, 2004 10:01 AM Re: Is Fish Meat? So, Judy, how do you get around this? Do you eat only dropped fruits of plants? Or what? Or is this just a way of saying that we might as well eat anything we like because everything we normally eat is sentient? Sounds just like arguments we used to get from meat-eaters who were somehow threatened by vegetarianism. But of course you wouldn't be meaning that :=( Best, Pat ;=) >Plants are tactic... they sense. Sentient means to be able to >sense. They respond to stimuli. They communicate with other species...often better than we do. >No brain stem needed for consciousness. Mail - You care about security. So do we. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 I don't eat fish. I consider anything that moves meat. If it is an animal, then it is MEAT, and therefore not a part of my menu. Melissa The all-new My – What will yours do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 that's a great way of looking at it! me too ) - TruAsia Wednesday, December 08, 2004 2:17 PM Re: is fish meat? I consider anything that bleeds and/or can run from or towards me is meat. -Asia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 I base my decisions on sentience and if the production harms a sentient being (i.e. milk, eggs), rather than strictly by the classification of " animal " which is somewhat arbitrary regarding sentience. Veronica At 11:43 AM 12/7/2004 -0800, you wrote: >I don't eat fish. I consider anything that moves meat. If it is an >animal, then it is MEAT, and therefore not a part of my menu. >Melissa > > > > > The all-new My What will yours do? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Fish are sentient. Diamond Dog <diamonddog wrote:I base my decisions on sentience and if the production harms a sentient being (i.e. milk, eggs), rather than strictly by the classification of " animal " which is somewhat arbitrary regarding sentience. Veronica At 11:43 AM 12/7/2004 -0800, you wrote: >I don't eat fish. I consider anything that moves meat. If it is an >animal, then it is MEAT, and therefore not a part of my menu. >Melissa > > > > > The all-new My & shy; What will yours do? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Yes, they are sentient - Peta has a great article on it on their website:) , RR/LA Small Pet Rescue <bunnyresq> wrote: > Fish are sentient. > > Diamond Dog <diamonddog@g...> wrote:I base my decisions on sentience and if the production harms a sentient > being (i.e. milk, eggs), rather than strictly by the classification of > " animal " which is somewhat arbitrary regarding sentience. > > Veronica > > At 11:43 AM 12/7/2004 -0800, you wrote: > > >I don't eat fish. I consider anything that moves meat. If it is an > >animal, then it is MEAT, and therefore not a part of my menu. > >Melissa > > > > > > > > > > The all-new My & shy; What will yours do? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Oooops! Forgot the link: http://fishinghurts.com/feat/fishlives/ , " Debra Lee Thompson " <Debrathompson@f...> wrote: > > Yes, they are sentient - Peta has a great article on it on their > website:) > > , RR/LA Small Pet Rescue > <bunnyresq> wrote: > > Fish are sentient. > > > > Diamond Dog <diamonddog@g...> wrote:I base my decisions on > sentience and if the production harms a sentient > > being (i.e. milk, eggs), rather than strictly by the classification > of > > " animal " which is somewhat arbitrary regarding sentience. > > > > Veronica > > > > At 11:43 AM 12/7/2004 -0800, you wrote: > > > > >I don't eat fish. I consider anything that moves meat. If it is > an > > >animal, then it is MEAT, and therefore not a part of my menu. > > >Melissa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The all-new My & shy; What will yours do? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Strictly speaking, so are vegetables. , " Debra Lee Thompson " <Debrathompson@f...> wrote: > > Yes, they are sentient - Peta has a great article on it on their > website:) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 I consider fish meat and for that reason do not eat fish. I also don't eat insects (no arthropods at all). I do eat eggs and some dairy products so I'm still in the ovo-lacto group of vegetarians. Gary > > > In a message dated 12/7/2004 1:18:00 PM Central Standard Time, > writes: > > > According to my cooking Thai fish sauce has nothing to do with fish, only > that it contains anchovy extract. When I make fish I don't use fish sauce. Most > people use fish sauce to perk up the flavor of noodle dishes etc. My kids > are meat eaters and love Thai food, but if they read the label and saw anchovy > extract I think they would just die, LOL. > > I had to carve a roast beef last night for the family. (my mom made it and > brought it over, nice mom) ughhhhh. It was not nice. I am going to hate > cooking for them now. Geez, and the dishes used to be the worst part. Not > anymore > > > > I still consider fish meat, so I won't be able to eat that. Anchovy is > still meat, I think anway. Does anyone else eat fish or do you consider that > not > meat? > > Theresa > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Oh yes. Sorry. I meant that conclusion to be understood. I've known enough fish to know that they are! V. At 12:48 PM 12/7/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Fish are sentient. > >Diamond Dog <diamonddog wrote:I base my decisions on >sentience and if the production harms a sentient >being (i.e. milk, eggs), rather than strictly by the classification of > " animal " which is somewhat arbitrary regarding sentience. > >Veronica > >At 11:43 AM 12/7/2004 -0800, you wrote: > > >I don't eat fish. I consider anything that moves meat. If it is an > >animal, then it is MEAT, and therefore not a part of my menu. > >Melissa > > > > > > > > > > The all-new My & shy; What will yours do? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Um, no. They aren't. No brain stem or central nervous system. I believe Animal Liberation goes into it somewhat. Veronica At 09:37 PM 12/7/2004 +0000, you wrote: >Strictly speaking, so are vegetables. > > , " Debra Lee Thompson " ><Debrathompson@f...> wrote: > > > > Yes, they are sentient - Peta has a great article on it on their > > website:) > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Fish is absolutely meat. I'm really surprised that some people still ask this question. Doesn't say much for our species when we look at a living creature like a fish and somehow deny that it's a living flesh species. No offense to anyone on the list of course. Rick. , RR/LA Small Pet Rescue <bunnyresq> wrote: > I don't eat fish. I consider anything that moves meat. If it is an animal, then it is MEAT, and therefore not a part of my menu. > Melissa > > > > > The all-new My – What will yours do? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 The worst of the fish. Those are bottom feeders. Maria/Chanda <puterwitch wrote:I think I may choose not to eat fish anymore. I don't see it being a problem, only for one thing, LOBSTER TAIL.OK, two things, lobster tail and crabs. I need to think this over real good. Blessings, Chanda - Diamond Dog Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:20 PM Re: Re: is fish meat? Um, no. They aren't. No brain stem or central nervous system. I believe Animal Liberation goes into it somewhat. Veronica At 09:37 PM 12/7/2004 +0000, you wrote: >Strictly speaking, so are vegetables. > > , " Debra Lee Thompson " ><Debrathompson@f...> wrote: > > > > Yes, they are sentient - Peta has a great article on it on their > > website:) > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 I meant vegetables are not sentient. Fish definitely are. V. At 09:00 PM 12/6/2004 -0500, you wrote: >I think I may choose not to eat fish anymore. I don't see it being a >problem, only for one thing, LOBSTER TAIL.OK, two things, lobster tail and >crabs. I need to think this over real good. >Blessings, >Chanda > - > Diamond Dog > > Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:20 PM > Re: Re: is fish meat? > > > Um, no. They aren't. No brain stem or central nervous system. I believe > Animal Liberation goes into it somewhat. > > Veronica > > At 09:37 PM 12/7/2004 +0000, you wrote: > > >Strictly speaking, so are vegetables. > > > > , " Debra Lee Thompson " > ><Debrathompson@f...> wrote: > > > > > > Yes, they are sentient - Peta has a great article on it on their > > > website:) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 > Strictly speaking, so are vegetables. I have heard the the white stuff that oozes out of a poinsettia is " blood. " I do know from Biology that there are venous systems in plants - they carry nutirents from the soil to the leaves - just like in an animal. I have heard that there are vegetarians that only eat " dropped " produce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Plants are tactic... they sense. Sentient means to be able to sense. They respond to stimuli. They communicate with other species...often better than we do. No brain stem needed for consciousness. " In the old cultures, plants were regarded as sacred beings from higher realms, gifts of the gods placed on earth, and embodiments of divine attributes. The seers of Ayurveda taught the people to care for the botanical kingdom, by describing various species in religious and mythical language. They understood that when a society does not respect the consciousness of plants, it will awaken to discover they have vanished, taking their life-sustaining gifts with them. " ...David Crow http://www.sentienttimes.com/02/oct_nov/sacred_plantsT.html " Herbalists and wildcrafters have long taught how to locate, identify or narrow down the likely medicinal uses of a plant by reading its " signature. " For example, a curandera may recognize the antibiotic or diur-etic properties of an unfamiliar herb through careful observation of its color, leaf configuration, surface texture, and the specific environment in which it grows. When indigenous healers are pressed as to how they know these things, a common reply is, " the plant told me. " And indeed it did! " " Granting sentience to plants may seem like an implausible transition for us minions of civilization. Technologized society labels all of non-human Nature as " resources, " only assigning value to those elements found useful by its self-serving researchers and " managers. " To morally justify the wholesale alteration, depletion and suffering of the natural world, such a society must convince itself that the world cannot feel. And likewise, any recognition of the sensitive life force in plants and other life forms must surely lead to a more generous and compassionate way of touching, effecting and impacting them. When one becomes conscious of the plants' pain, every " harvest " is undertaken with the focus on gratitude and prayer, every bite becomes communion. And every forest or meadow endangered by greedy development becomes a personal call to respond. " ... " Wondrous, strange, sunshine-eating entities without whom we and most of the other life forms of this planet would die. " " With every species of plant that goes extinct Gaia sacrifices a sensory organ/organism, an element of consciousness. With each passing she loses another link in the associated patterns of information that serve as her memory. With each, we too suffer impoverishment of spirit and diminishment of " self. " " ....Jesse Wolf Hardin http://www.sentienttimes.com/02/june_july/GreenT.html , Diamond Dog <diamonddog@g...> wrote: > Um, no. They aren't. No brain stem or central nervous system. I believe > Animal Liberation goes into it somewhat. > > Veronica > > At 09:37 PM 12/7/2004 +0000, you wrote: > > >Strictly speaking, so are vegetables. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 The Jains I believe. Joseph Campbell mentioned them in his PBS lectures on tranformative myth. , " Amy P. " <aviva_hadas> wrote: > > I have heard that there are vegetarians that only eat " dropped " > produce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 So, Judy, how do you get around this? Do you eat only dropped fruits of plants? Or what? Or is this just a way of saying that we might as well eat anything we like because everything we normally eat is sentient? Sounds just like arguments we used to get from meat-eaters who were somehow threatened by vegetarianism. But of course you wouldn't be meaning that :=( Best, Pat ;=) >Plants are tactic... they sense. Sentient means to be able to >sense. They respond to stimuli. They communicate with other species...often better than we do. >No brain stem needed for consciousness. Mail - You care about security. So do we. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 I consider anything that bleeds and/or can run from or towards me is meat. -Asia , AquaAnimus@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 12/7/2004 1:18:00 PM Central Standard Time, > writes: > > > According to my cooking Thai fish sauce has nothing to do with fish, only > that it contains anchovy extract. When I make fish I don't use fish sauce. Most > people use fish sauce to perk up the flavor of noodle dishes etc. My kids > are meat eaters and love Thai food, but if they read the label and saw anchovy > extract I think they would just die, LOL. > > I had to carve a roast beef last night for the family. (my mom made it and > brought it over, nice mom) ughhhhh. It was not nice. I am going to hate > cooking for them now. Geez, and the dishes used to be the worst part. Not anymore > > > > I still consider fish meat, so I won't be able to eat that. Anchovy is > still meat, I think anway. Does anyone else eat fish or do you consider that not > meat? > > Theresa > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Me too! Maria/Chanda <puterwitch wrote:that's a great way of looking at it! me too ) - TruAsia Wednesday, December 08, 2004 2:17 PM Re: is fish meat? I consider anything that bleeds and/or can run from or towards me is meat. -Asia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Sentiency isn't the best argument for being a vegetarian. I rather like the idea of eating as communion... With what sort of organisms do you wish to attune? , psybermus <psybermus> wrote: > So, Judy, how do you get around this? Do you eat only > dropped fruits of plants? Or what? Or is this just a > way of saying that we might as well eat anything we > like because everything we normally eat is sentient? > Sounds just like arguments we used to get from > meat-eaters who were somehow threatened by > vegetarianism. But of course you wouldn't be meaning > that :=( > > Best, Pat ;=) > > >Plants are tactic... they sense. Sentient means to be > able to >sense. They respond to stimuli. They > communicate with other species...often better than we > do. > > >No brain stem needed for consciousness. > > > > > > > Mail - You care about security. So do we. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 " Man, the crown of creation, has set himself apart from other life- forms, regarding animals and plants as dumb and insentient. Now a pioneering scientist tells us how wrong we have been. In an engrossing tour of the many species we share our planet with, Brian J. Ford reveals how all living things feel and communicate with one another in ways that, though mysterious to us, are very real. He cites a growing body of research to show that we are surrounded not by brute beasts we can use at will but by sensitive souls with emotions and responses we must respect. " ....From the editor's description of " The Secret Language of Life " by B.J. Ford (1998) , " Maria/Chanda " <puterwitch@c...> wrote: > I don't think plants feel pain, but then again, how can one ever tell? I won't ever know, but I must eat, so at very worst, from them I will get the only food karma if any that I will get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Yeah, but venous systems are not a central nervous system that can recognize pain as, well, pain. Veronica >I have heard the the white stuff that oozes out of a poinsettia >is " blood. " I do know from Biology that there are venous systems in >plants - they carry nutirents from the soil to the leaves - just like >in an animal. > >I have heard that there are vegetarians that only eat " dropped " >produce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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