Guest guest Report post Posted January 4, 2002 Whoever it was said that they don't get any arguments from people who aren't vegan, and that they apologize for even having meat near by: Perhaps these people happen to be very nice considerate people, but you'd think that if this were true that they would become vegan. More likely, they want to have sex with you and they are trying to gain your appreciation by pretending to understand your beliefs. Flip a coin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 4, 2002 richard_19_m_uk wrote: > > Whoever it was said that they don't get any arguments from people who > aren't vegan, and that they apologize for even having meat near by: > Perhaps these people happen to be very nice considerate people, but > you'd think that if this were true that they would become vegan. > More likely, they want to have sex with you and they are trying to > gain your appreciation by pretending to understand your beliefs. > Flip a coin Congratulations. You've won my Moronic Generalization of the Day award. It's a small and elite group you've joined, peopled with such luminaries as George W. Bush ( " It's a school full of so-called at-risk children. It's how we, unfortunately, label certain children. It means basically they can't learn. " ) Congratulations. Your medal and certificate should arrive any day now. serene -- " I am a sexual moth, thank you very much. " - Mr. Cow Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 4, 2002 Well I hope the WOMAN who apologised for discussing meat in front of me doesn't want to have sex with me. Honestly Richard! Janey x - " richard_19_m_uk " <iron_man_who_rules Friday, January 04, 2002 12:23 AM Vegan Bullying > Whoever it was said that they don't get any arguments from people who > aren't vegan, and that they apologize for even having meat near by: > Perhaps these people happen to be very nice considerate people, but > you'd think that if this were true that they would become vegan. > More likely, they want to have sex with you and they are trying to > gain your appreciation by pretending to understand your beliefs. > Flip a coin > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 4, 2002 Quite right . they probably feel some guilt at eating animals but do not have enough compassion to actually cut down or stop. Once the vegan is not with them they can push any such thoughts to the back of their mind - " richard_19_m_uk " <iron_man_who_rules Friday, January 04, 2002 12:23 AM Vegan Bullying > Whoever it was said that they don't get any arguments from people who > aren't vegan, and that they apologize for even having meat near by: > Perhaps these people happen to be very nice considerate people, but > you'd think that if this were true that they would become vegan. >> gain your appreciation by pretending to understand your beliefs. > > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 4, 2002 How do you explain the very common situation where people do appologise for the fact that they are eating animals (when you are choosing vegan food)---- and yet even tho' sympathising with your reasons they then don't make even small changes themselves ? They usually say ---- I admire you for being vegan but I couldn't do it ! - " serene " <sandravannoy Friday, January 04, 2002 1:35 AM Re: Vegan Bullying >> > Congratulations. You've won my Moronic Generalization of the Day > award. It's a small and elite group you've joined, peopled with > such luminaries as George W. Bush ( " It's a school full of so-called > at-risk children. It's how we, unfortunately, label certain > children. It means basically they can't learn. " ) Congratulations. > Your medal and certificate should arrive any day now. > > serene > -- > " I am a sexual moth, thank you very much. " - Mr. Cow > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 4, 2002 Spoilsport Janey !!!! Angie - " Janey " <jane.cuming Friday, January 04, 2002 8:27 AM Re: Vegan Bullying > Well I hope the WOMAN who apologised for discussing meat in front of me > doesn't want to have sex with me. Honestly Richard! > > Janey > x > > - > " richard_19_m_uk " <iron_man_who_rules > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 4, 2002 woohoo!! i want a medal!!! *jumps up and down* i want one!!! me me me meee!! wot does i have to do to get one??!!! *looks excited* and, if i get da medal, will i get to meet the puppetmaster, i mean, Cheney?? *jumps up and down some more* fraggle serene <sandravannoy wrote: >richard_19_m_uk wrote: >> >> Whoever it was said that they don't get any arguments from people who >> aren't vegan, and that they apologize for even having meat near by: >> Perhaps these people happen to be very nice considerate people, but >> you'd think that if this were true that they would become vegan. >> More likely, they want to have sex with you and they are trying to >> gain your appreciation by pretending to understand your beliefs. >> Flip a coin > >Congratulations. You've won my Moronic Generalization of the Day >award. It's a small and elite group you've joined, peopled with >such luminaries as George W. Bush ( " It's a school full of so-called >at-risk children. It's how we, unfortunately, label certain >children. It means basically they can't learn. " ) Congratulations. >Your medal and certificate should arrive any day now. > >serene >-- > " I am a sexual moth, thank you very much. " - Mr. Cow > > >To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 4, 2002 i have sex with them... no, umm.....easy say " nah, its easy, ya can do it, if i can, anyone can.. " then give em a statistic about something relevant(how much water it takes to produce a hamburger say, or the destruction of the rainforest, or how much healtier it is), er , if they be friends, ofeer to cook em a meal voila..now they are stuck at least fer a second fraggle " Angie Wright " <angiewright wrote: >How do you explain the very common situation where people do appologise for >the fact that they are eating animals (when you are choosing vegan food)---- >and yet even tho' sympathising with your reasons they then don't make even >small changes themselves ? > They usually say ---- I admire you for being vegan but I couldn't do it ! >Angie > >- > " serene " <sandravannoy > >Friday, January 04, 2002 1:35 AM >Re: Vegan Bullying > > >>> >> Congratulations. You've won my Moronic Generalization of the Day >> award. It's a small and elite group you've joined, peopled with >> such luminaries as George W. Bush ( " It's a school full of so-called >> at-risk children. It's how we, unfortunately, label certain >> children. It means basically they can't learn. " ) Congratulations. >> Your medal and certificate should arrive any day now. >> >> serene >> -- >> " I am a sexual moth, thank you very much. " - Mr. Cow >> >> >> To send an email to - >> >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 4, 2002 Janey wrote: > > Well I hope the WOMAN who apologised for discussing meat in front of me > doesn't want to have sex with me. Honestly Richard! Since I agree that Richard's comment was moronic, I'm not gonna point out how homophobic *your* remark reads to me. serene, big ol' vegan dyke -- " I am a sexual moth, thank you very much. " - Mr. Cow Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 4, 2002 EBbrewpunx wrote: > > woohoo!! > i want a medal!!! > *jumps up and down* > i want one!!! > me me me meee!! > wot does i have to do to get one??!!! > *looks excited* > and, if i get da medal, will i get to meet the puppetmaster, i mean, Cheney?? > *jumps up and down some more* *laugh* You slay me, fraggle. serene -- " I am a sexual moth, thank you very much. " - Mr. Cow Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 4, 2002 serene wrote: > > Janey wrote: > > > > Well I hope the WOMAN who apologised for discussing meat in front of me > > doesn't want to have sex with me. Honestly Richard! > > Since I agree that Richard's comment was moronic, I'm not gonna > point out how homophobic *your* remark reads to me. Please do. Although the Janey assumed the women was straight (perhaps because she knew her), and expected the reader to do the same, you're going to have to explain how your reading translated this assumption into homophobia (literally, fear of the same [sex relationships]). > serene, big ol' vegan dyke Good for you . > -- -- Ian McDonald http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~type40/alternative.html http://travel.to/startrekcolony - Star Trek: Colony site & .mov http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~type40/who-rpg.html - Dr. Who RPGs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 4, 2002 Hi Richard > More likely, they want to have sex with you and they are trying to > gain your appreciation by pretending to understand your beliefs. And I always thought I was cynical :-) BB Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.313 / Virus Database: 174 - Release 02/01/02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 4, 2002 Hi all > they probably feel some guilt at eating animals but do not have enough > compassion to actually cut down or stop. I think that's very likely - I was one of those people for quite a few years before going veggie (then vegan)!!! BB Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.313 / Virus Database: 174 - Release 02/01/02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 4, 2002 > > Since I agree that Richard's comment was moronic, I'm not gonna > > point out how homophobic *your* remark reads to me. > But you just did! LOL! You're contradicting yourself! For the record I am not homophobic - far from it. I have very liberal views - each to their own. I like everyone to be happy. But Richard was assuming that this person was only apologising for discussing meat in front of meat because *they* wanted to have sex with me. I'm married. So is she (she has a son too!) and it was a harmless discussion. The ladies in my new department at work (not the previous one where they were horrid!) are so understanding about my veganism. Its really sweet! That's the point I was trying to make! Janey x Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 4, 2002 Heehee!!! Janey x > Spoilsport Janey !!!! Angie > > > > Well I hope the WOMAN who apologised for discussing meat in front of me > > doesn't want to have sex with me. Honestly Richard! > > > > Janey > > x Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 4, 2002 Dr Ian McDonald wrote: > > serene wrote: > > > > Janey wrote: > > > > > > Well I hope the WOMAN who apologised for discussing meat in front of me > > > doesn't want to have sex with me. Honestly Richard! > > > > Since I agree that Richard's comment was moronic, I'm not gonna > > point out how homophobic *your* remark reads to me. > > Please do. Although the Janey assumed the women was straight (perhaps > because she knew her), and expected the reader to do the same, you're > going to have to explain how your reading translated this assumption > into homophobia (literally, fear of the same [sex relationships]). Yes, literally, but homophobia also encompasses hostility (conscious or not) towards homosexuality. The above quote from Janey (who I think is a delightful person, by the way, and has been incredibly sweet in the face of my prickliness about the comments that started this thread; thanks, Janey) has tinges of that, especially in the part where " WOMAN " is emphasized in all caps, and the final sentence. Possible translation (not the only possible translation, but a reasonable one, I think): I mean " Honestly, Richard! " How could a " WOMAN " want to have sex with me. That would be just *wrong*. (or icky or unthinkable or laughable.) I don't expect those of you who spend your lives immersed in a culture that dismisses people who aren't straight to necessarily see my point of view on this, but I appreciate the chance to discuss it here. Thank you. > > > serene, big ol' vegan dyke > > Good for you . > Thanks again! serene, grinning -- " I am a sexual moth, thank you very much. " - Mr. Cow Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 5, 2002 serene wrote: > > > going to have to explain how your reading translated this assumption > > into homophobia (literally, fear of the same [sex relationships]). > > Yes, literally, but homophobia also encompasses hostility (conscious > or not) towards homosexuality. 1. The dictionaries don't put it that strongly. The most all-encompassing is " prejudice against (fear and dislike of) " , from Princeton's WordNet, which I don't think you can stretch to " unconscious hostility " . I can imagine that some in the gay community use it to describe everyone who makes assumptions, but common usage needs more than that. 2. I don't like widening the scope of words that one side in a debate uses to condemn the other. Even when I'm on the side using the word. Homophobia is such a word. 3. But this wasn't hostility. This was just an assumption of heterosexuality - which is annoying, but barely hostility. -- Ian McDonald http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~type40/alternative.html http://travel.to/startrekcolony - Star Trek: Colony site & .mov http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~type40/who-rpg.html - Dr. Who RPGs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 5, 2002 Dr Ian McDonald wrote: > > serene wrote: > > > > > going to have to explain how your reading translated this assumption > > > into homophobia (literally, fear of the same [sex relationships]). > > > > Yes, literally, but homophobia also encompasses hostility (conscious > > or not) towards homosexuality. > > 1. The dictionaries don't put it that strongly. The most > all-encompassing is " prejudice against (fear and dislike of) " , from > Princeton's WordNet, which I don't think you can stretch to " unconscious > hostility " . I can imagine that some in the gay community use it to > describe everyone who makes assumptions, but common usage needs more > than that. Prejudice/fear/dislike are enough like hostility to me. In fact, let's use Princeton's WordNet (love the resource, by the way; thanks for mentioning it. I hadn't seen it before.) -- They say " ill will " ; I think that's weaker in connotation than " hostility " and a bit stronger than " dislike " . It remains that I don't think it's neutral to assume that someone's possibly being non-straight is a neutral assumption. It was not the assumption that woman B is straight that irked me--Janey knows her and is pretty sure she is--but the tone of amused disbelief and " Did you Evah! " that I got from it. (Again, Janey, I'm not poking at you; you seem like a gentle soul. It's just that these issues of semantics and heterocentrism fascinate me.) > > 2. I don't like widening the scope of words that one side in a debate > uses to condemn the other. Even when I'm on the side using the word. > Homophobia is such a word. *shrug* Language changes. > > 3. But this wasn't hostility. This was just an assumption of > heterosexuality - which is annoying, but barely hostility. I've pointed out why I disagree with your characterization of the quote, based on what I think is a reasonable reading of the all-caps and the final sentence. serene -- " I am a sexual moth, thank you very much. " - Mr. Cow Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 5, 2002 Oops. I wrote a garbled sentence. Lemme see if I can get this size-ten foot out of my mouth: serene wrote: > It remains that I don't think it's > neutral to assume that someone's possibly being non-straight is a > neutral assumption. What I meant to say is " It remains that I don't think it's neutral to assume that someone's possibly being non-straight is a laughable prospect. " serene -- " I am a sexual moth, thank you very much. " - Mr. Cow Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 5, 2002 > ---------- > serene[sMTP:sandravannoy] > > Congratulations. You've won my Moronic Generalization of the Day > award. > Maybe I misread the original post, but I thought it had its tongue in its cheek! Cathy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 5, 2002 I think Janey was answering in a light hearted fashion .and this does not mean she is homophobic Since she is marriend to a man I don't think it unreasonable for her to respond that way If she had been attracted to women she wouldn't/shouldn't have married him. Most people start out being faithful usually don't they? Angie - " serene " <sandravannoy Friday, January 04, 2002 11:55 PM Re: Vegan Bullying > Dr Ian McDonald wrote: > > > > serene wrote: > > > > > > Janey wrote: > > > > > > > > Well I hope the WOMAN who apologised for discussing meat in front of me > > > > doesn't want to have sex with me. Honestly Richard! > > > > > > Since I agree that Richard's comment was moronic, I'm not gonna > > > point out how homophobic *your* remark reads to me. > > > > Please do. Although the Janey assumed the women was straight (perhaps > > because she knew her), and expected the reader to do the same, you're > > going to have to explain how your reading translated this assumption > > into homophobia (literally, fear of the same [sex relationships]). > > Yes, literally, but homophobia also encompasses hostility (conscious > or not) towards homosexuality. The above quote from Janey (who I > think is a delightful person, by the way, and has been incredibly > sweet in the face of my prickliness about the comments that started > this thread; thanks, Janey) has tinges of that, especially in the > part where " WOMAN " is emphasized in all caps, and the final > sentence. Possible translation (not the only possible translation, > but a reasonable one, I think): > > I mean " Honestly, Richard! " How could a " WOMAN " want to have > sex with me. That would be just *wrong*. (or icky or > unthinkable or laughable.) > > I don't expect those of you who spend your lives immersed in a > culture that dismisses people who aren't straight to necessarily see > my point of view on this, but I appreciate the chance to discuss it > here. Thank you. > > > > > > serene, big ol' vegan dyke > > > > Good for you . > > > > Thanks again! > > serene, grinning > -- > " I am a sexual moth, thank you very much. " - Mr. Cow > > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 5, 2002 But we all make assumptions It doesn't have to be negative I assume everyone here is a vegan unless they say otherwise I also assume we are opposed to Killing animals for fun/circuses etc We need to make some assumptions in order to have a conversation I might talk about my parents assuming everyone was brought up with at least one, but there may be someone here who spent their entire childhood in a childrens home To allow for every eventuality makes conversation difficult As I think I have already said why do people ignore those who are cellibate in conversations ? I'm not bothered But people forget them Angie - " Dr Ian McDonald " <ian.mcdonald Saturday, January 05, 2002 1:26 AM Re: Vegan Bullying > serene wrote: > > > > > going to have to explain how your reading translated this assumption > > > into homophobia (literally, fear of the same [sex relationships]). > > > > Yes, literally, but homophobia also encompasses hostility (conscious > > or not) towards homosexuality. > > 1. The dictionaries don't put it that strongly. The most > all-encompassing is " prejudice against (fear and dislike of) " , from > Princeton's WordNet, which I don't think you can stretch to " unconscious > hostility " . I can imagine that some in the gay community use it to > describe everyone who makes assumptions, but common usage needs more > than that. > > 2. I don't like widening the scope of words that one side in a debate > uses to condemn the other. Even when I'm on the side using the word. > Homophobia is such a word. > > 3. But this wasn't hostility. This was just an assumption of > heterosexuality - which is annoying, but barely hostility. > > -- > Ian McDonald > > http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~type40/alternative.html > http://travel.to/startrekcolony - Star Trek: Colony site & .mov > http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~type40/who-rpg.html - Dr. Who RPGs > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 5, 2002 Perhape anyone can be anything given the right conditions But then what is love ? Not sure that I know I understand it where my kids/parents are concerned but not sure about an unrelated person/partner Sad eh ? Angie - " Cathy Jupp (BR) " <cjbr Saturday, January 05, 2002 8:29 AM RE: Vegan Bullying > > ---------- > > Janey[sMTP:jane.cuming] > > I'm married. So > > is she (she has a son too!) > > > > > My friend who came out last year has just ended a 23 year heterosexual > marriage. The woman she has fallen in love with has 5 children. It never > does to assume too much....... > > Cathy > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 5, 2002 I have 6 gay friends I never consider them as anything but vegans . Its never an issue as long as people are open and clear from the start to avoid someone accidently saying the wrong thing and causing (or think they are causing ) embarrassement Years ago some mums were telling a new mum how lovely her baby was I felt awkward cos I could see he had Downs Syndrome and thought that maybe they didn't know It turned out they all did know but I had been told .. Had I known I would have felt ok Its the not knowing that causes difficulties Angie - " Cathy Jupp (BR) " <cjbr Saturday, January 05, 2002 8:29 AM RE: Vegan Bullying > > > > > In Jane's defence, I don't think she's homophobic, just homounaware. One of > my best friends came out near the end of last year, so lesbianism is quite a > large part of my life at the moment and I would not assume that anyone > didn't fancy me just because of their gender. But if Jane doesn't know any > gay people it would probably just never occur to her. Doesn't mean that she > had anything against gay people though. > Cheers > Cathy > > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 5, 2002 Hi Cathy / Serene / Jane / Richard / Ian / everyone else!! :-) > But if Jane doesn't know any > gay people it would probably just never occur to her. Doesn't mean that she > had anything against gay people though. Personally, I think it is an in-built part of everyone's psyche that they tend to assume everyone is the same as themselves - until circumstances highlight that they're not. BB Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.313 / Virus Database: 174 - Release 02/01/02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
