Guest guest Report post Posted January 22, 2006 I agree - and to say that they won't get any of your money, and you will advise everyone you know not to shop there - it does worry them. Jo - " Anouk Sickler " <zurumato Sunday, January 22, 2006 4:21 PM Re:MORRISSEY RULES > > Hi Raven, > > I agree with Peter, there are many examples where inundations > of letters to companies, from people like us have made an impact. > > One recent example is the Letter writing campaing and peaceful > protests that Peta asked us to carry out. > > One of them being the J. Crew catalog, stopped carrying fur. > The other being Benneton, stopped using Austrlian wool, which > practice Musleing, a painful procedure to remmove the wool from > sheep. > > There are many, many other examples of where letters work. > > some say something " sorry you disagree, but this is business " > > overall, I think that it is worth it, most of the time, Somebody > has to open that email or letter. > > I try to keep mine polite and short and to the point. I think that > those work best. > > > , " Peter " <metalscarab@g...> wrote: > > > > Hi Raven > > > > Writing letters to the companies themselves is fairly futile - but > writing > > to the people who fund them and provide them with services can be, > and has > > been very successful. In the UK, HLS was almost forced to close down > after a > > letter writing campaign convinced Royal Bank of Scotland to withdraw > their > > financial support - unfortunately the government stepped in to save > them, > > but it goes to show that a well organised letter writing campaign > can have a > > strong impact. > > > > BB > > Peter > > > > - > > " Raven " <cailleachraven86> > > > > Friday, January 20, 2006 9:42 PM > > Re:MORRISSEY RULES > > > > > > > Hi, Everyone, > > > I wonder about the effectiveness of writing letters to these > companies > > > that practice vivisection. Consumers are usually very misinformed > about > > > where their products came from, and I've noticed that information > about > > > the cruelty of certain companies' labs will have an impact on > people if > > > it's done effectively. So if people in a general sense don't like to > > > know that animals are being experimented on, I'm curious to know how > > > many letters it would take to convince companies to change their > > > destructive ways. I don't personally know anyone who's blown up a lab, > > > but it just seems to me that it would be a last, desperate resort > to be > > > heard and listened to. I don't know, has anyone here ever written > > > letters, and if so, what was the outcome? > > > ~Raven~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To send an email to - > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 22, 2006 I don't read newspapers either - haven't bought one since I got married (almost 38 years). The information I have is from the internet, teletext and - from talking with loads of people who read the newspapers! Jo - peter hurd Sunday, January 22, 2006 7:49 PM Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES I give up! If you dont read papers, how would you see such a report? The Valley Vegan................ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 22, 2006 I write letters, the one that springs to mind was not for animal rights but humans. It was a campaign against Del Monte, for better treatment for their workers. It took a lot of letters from me and many others (I did get answers to my letters) but workers have slowly been getting better rights, and are now 'allowed' to have a union. The best threats are just to say that because ...... you will not be buying this product, but would consider doing so if they change ...... (whatever it is you want changed). If you also mention that you will tell everyone you know that the product contains etc. (or whatever) it does make them think - and sometimes things change. I also wrote letters to McVities about their biscuits which at one time all contained animal fat. I don't know how many other people wrote, but after a fairly short time all their biscuits became vegetarian, and some vegan. I wrote to Avalon toiletries whose products were all vegan anyway, about their products containing parabens. A few months later I noticed that the products were repackaged and do not contain parabens. I wrote to Redwoods about the salt content of their foods, and they wrote back saying that they would be reducing the salt content. This is not entirely satisfactory yet as the labels still do not always mention how much salt is contained - but I will write again. I would never blow up anything (you can never guarantee that no living being will be hurt), but I do not know of anything that has been changed as a result. Jo - " Raven " <cailleachraven86 Friday, January 20, 2006 9:42 PM Re:MORRISSEY RULES > Hi, Everyone, > I wonder about the effectiveness of writing letters to these companies > that practice vivisection. Consumers are usually very misinformed about > where their products came from, and I've noticed that information about > the cruelty of certain companies' labs will have an impact on people if > it's done effectively. So if people in a general sense don't like to > know that animals are being experimented on, I'm curious to know how > many letters it would take to convince companies to change their > destructive ways. I don't personally know anyone who's blown up a lab, > but it just seems to me that it would be a last, desperate resort to be > heard and listened to. I don't know, has anyone here ever written > letters, and if so, what was the outcome? > ~Raven~ > To send an email to - > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 22, 2006 Hi Peter >I give up! >If you dont read papers, how would you see such a report? I listen to the radio, watch TV, talk to people who do read papers.... however, you have cunningly avoided the question, which was a simple request to name one such report... BB Peter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 23, 2006 Hi Jo I am much the same way. I will glance at the Sunday paper briefly, but I am basically only there for the coupons and sale papers. I may catch glimpses of the news because DH has it on. But most of my info is from searching or being passed on to me. BB Nikki , " jo " <jo.heartwork@g...> wrote: > > I don't read newspapers either - haven't bought one since I got married (almost 38 years). The information I have is from the internet, teletext and - from talking with loads of people who read the newspapers! > > Jo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 23, 2006 Firstly you assume what a normal person is, and secondly, they obviously have no inquisitive nature at all and take everything at face value. I dunno maybe its me, I have a morbid facination with the way the criminal mind works, particularly serial killers/psychopath etc... etc.............. The Valley Vegan..............jo <jo.heartwork wrote: When subjects like this come up at work, the normal person's response is that it is a shame some people commit crimes because it doesn't help achieve anything, and that (this is an actual quote from a work colleague) "no normal person is going to listen to what they have to say if they commit crimes'. Jo - peter hurd Sunday, January 22, 2006 2:32 PM Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES I totally dissagree, maybe we read different papers?There are one or two un biased reports? The Valley Vegan..........Peter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter Exactly... and when acts of aggression are carried out, no-one reads *why* tthey are carried out - they just read what is written... that all animal rights activists are a bunch of aggressive nutters who don't care about human life, and want to cause trouble. How does that help the situation? BB Peter ----- Original Message ----- peter hurd Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:40 PM Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES The media is a powerful tool for advertising any cause. If people read why the likes of Greenpeace FOE, ALF are doing what they are doing, then they can make up their minds. If the papers give them a blind eye as they seem to be lately then the message isnt heard, and maybe thats why I get charity mugged so many times in my lunch hour! ( which incidentally I personally think is counter productive and will turn some people away from supporting some charities ) The Valley Vegan.............Peter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter So what is the advantage of getting in the press? BB Peter - peter hurd Friday, January 20, 2006 7:37 PM Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES Unfortunately, this sort of action rarely makes the press any more as it is not as sensational as the more violent destruction going on in the world. To put it plainly, I realy do think peple care more about terrorism, loss of human life/habitat than they do about animals loss of life. And while I applaud every action Greenpeace takes, they make the press a lot less than they used to. So if blowing up a laborartory ( empty of course ), or hijacking and sabotaging trucks etc, makes the press and then all the better as far as I am concerned, as at least the reasons are known, and the make the press. Harming people and their personal property is totally unjustifyable in my opinion mind. The Valley Vegan.................Anouk Sickler <zurumato wrote: Hi Jo, this morning, members of Greenpeace in Argentina, about 15 of them tied themselves with lock and chain to a truck that was heading to Uruguay. This truck originated from a factory in Chile, and passed tru argentina in order to dump their chemical wastes in the Uruguayan River. A source oflife of animals and people. I'm that tying themselves to this truck was completely illegal. The keys to the locks on the hands of these people where delivered oneset to the Argentinan president and the other to the UruguyianPresident, as a way to get the two countries to talk about this. The truck was stopped. However in the news the president dissmissed it as "just anenvironmental issue"even though, this was only one truck, It got the attention of thenews and now people know the name of the Chilean Factory doing this. I know that everyone here knows that vivisection is wrong. But thisarticle mentions Morrissey as being irresponsible. No one mentioned the Scientists as possibly being irresponsible. The media and articles like this are desperately trying to portray animal rights activists as Violent, Deranged, Militant Wackos. so they will take anything, even a simple comment by a Pop star andturn it around to create fear to the public. The truth is that a lot of people in the Animal Liberation Movement are very, peaceful, quiet, people with strong convictions. The reason that they burn places after rescuing bunnies is to createan immediate monetary loss and to create an immediate disruption inthe process of that lab. These corporations for example P & G, theonly thing they care about is Money. The AlF believes that an animalis not a "Property". my husband was trying to tell me that martin luther king accomplishedmore, with non-violent methods than Malcom X did. I see his point. I see Peters point and agree that violent begetsviolence. but some people feel that this isn't the 1950's anymore and that MLK had time, he had time to plan ideas, march in a protest, talk to people, give sermons, give interviews, write letters, etc.Today there is a sense of urgency, 500 african americans weren'tdying in one day, as the animals in some labs are today. There isalso increasing censorship of free ideas by the government. I support the Non-violent methods of MLK, and I believe thatpeaceful protest can accomplish many things, however sometimes you have to go a little extra way, break the law, as Rosa Parksdid, in order to be heard. "The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder ofanimals as theynow look on the murder of men." -- Leonardo da Vinci, The animals of the world exist for their own reasons.They were not made for humans any more than black people were made forwhitesor women for men. - Alice Walker , "heartwerk" wrote:>> Everyone here agrees that vivisection is wrong - so you are preaching > to the converted.> > I don't think that burning places down has ever stopped vivisection. > What is the point of getting yourself arrested if it doesn't have a > successful outcome? > > It is no good committing a crime because you are het up about > something if it doesn't achieve anything - and the only thing that > this sort of 'protest' has achieved is to make new laws against > protest of all kinds.> > Jo> >To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 23, 2006 Second hand information....... The Valley Vegan.............jo <jo.heartwork wrote: I don't read newspapers either - haven't bought one since I got married (almost 38 years). The information I have is from the internet, teletext and - from talking with loads of people who read the newspapers! Jo - peter hurd Sunday, January 22, 2006 7:49 PM Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES I give up! If you dont read papers, how would you see such a report? The Valley Vegan................ Peter H Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 23, 2006 I couldnt be cunning if I tried. Next Saturday when I buy the paper I will look out for a report for you O.K.? Maybe next time something is in the news, you buy one and prove me wrong? The Valley Vegan.............Peter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter >I give up! >If you dont read papers, how would you see such a report? I listen to the radio, watch TV, talk to people who do read papers.... however, you have cunningly avoided the question, which was a simple request to name one such report... BB Peter Peter H To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Security Centre. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 23, 2006 Yep- that's what the newspapers give too. Jo - peter hurd Monday, January 23, 2006 7:54 PM Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES Second hand information....... The Valley Vegan.............jo <jo.heartwork wrote: I don't read newspapers either - haven't bought one since I got married (almost 38 years). The information I have is from the internet, teletext and - from talking with loads of people who read the newspapers! Jo - peter hurd Sunday, January 22, 2006 7:49 PM Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES I give up! If you dont read papers, how would you see such a report? The Valley Vegan................ Peter H Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 23, 2006 Hi Peter >I couldnt be cunning if I tried. Next Saturday when I buy the paper I will look out for a report for you O.K.? Maybe next > time something is in the news, you buy one and prove me wrong? Well, at the moment you are the one who is making claims for newspapers that no-one else seems to recognise. I presumed that since you said you *had* seen the sort of article you were referring to, you could at least remember the newspaper concerned! BB Peter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 23, 2006 Hi Peter > So hearing other peoples recollection / interperetation of an article they once read must be third/fourth hand? and possibly > even less accurate..... But surely it is people's perceptions that we are discussing... if people are taking away a particular perception from the reporting of specific incidents, that is surely the most valid indicator of whether or not an action gets the point across! BB Peter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 23, 2006 Now wait a minute VV, Isn't that what you pass on to us here? ((hugz)) Nikki , peter hurd <swpgh01@t...> wrote: > > Second hand information....... > > The Valley Vegan............. > > jo <jo.heartwork@g...> wrote: > I don't read newspapers either - haven't bought one since I got married (almost 38 years). The information I have is from the internet, teletext and - from talking with loads of people who read the newspapers! > > Jo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 23, 2006 Realy old, maybe I should just go away.............. The Valley Vegan............earthstrm <earthstorm wrote: Now wait a minute VV,Isn't that what you pass on to us here?((hugz))Nikki , peter hurd wrote:>> Second hand information.......> > The Valley Vegan.............> > jo wrote:> I don't read newspapers either - haven't bought one since I got married (almost 38 years). The information I have is from the internet, teletext and - from talking with loads of people who read the newspapers!> > JoTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 23, 2006 With the memory of a goldfish, are you kidding me? As I said, I buy a paper on a Saturday and a Sunday, so I will keep my eye out for you O.K.? Nuff said, got a good reaction from you, so lets start a new thread............ Got anything to offer other than criticism? The Valley Vegan.......................Peter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter >I couldnt be cunning if I tried. Next Saturday when I buy the paper I will look out for a report for you O.K.? Maybe next > time something is in the news, you buy one and prove me wrong? Well, at the moment you are the one who is making claims for newspapers that no-one else seems to recognise. I presumed that since you said you *had* seen the sort of article you were referring to, you could at least remember the newspaper concerned! BB Peter Peter H To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Security Centre. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 23, 2006 Please don't! Did ya not see the ((hugz))? Hey, if you can zing me, isn;t fair that I can zing you? Besides, we cannot always agree, what fun would that be? Nikki , peter hurd <swpgh01@t...> wrote: > > Realy old, maybe I should just go away.............. > > The Valley Vegan............ > > earthstrm <earthstorm@c...> wrote: > Now wait a minute VV, > > Isn't that what you pass on to us here? > > > ((hugz)) > > Nikki Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 23, 2006 But you are already converted to animal rights - which is what I assume is the aim of committing the crime of arson. We were trying to ascertain whether such drastic action has any beneficial effect. Jo - peter hurd Monday, January 23, 2006 7:53 PM Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES Firstly you assume what a normal person is, and secondly, they obviously have no inquisitive nature at all and take everything at face value. I dunno maybe its me, I have a morbid facination with the way the criminal mind works, particularly serial killers/psychopath etc... etc.............. The Valley Vegan..............jo <jo.heartwork wrote: When subjects like this come up at work, the normal person's response is that it is a shame some people commit crimes because it doesn't help achieve anything, and that (this is an actual quote from a work colleague) "no normal person is going to listen to what they have to say if they commit crimes'. Jo - peter hurd Sunday, January 22, 2006 2:32 PM Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES I totally dissagree, maybe we read different papers?There are one or two un biased reports? The Valley Vegan..........Peter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter Exactly... and when acts of aggression are carried out, no-one reads *why* tthey are carried out - they just read what is written... that all animal rights activists are a bunch of aggressive nutters who don't care about human life, and want to cause trouble. How does that help the situation? BB Peter - peter hurd Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:40 PM Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES The media is a powerful tool for advertising any cause. If people read why the likes of Greenpeace FOE, ALF are doing what they are doing, then they can make up their minds. If the papers give them a blind eye as they seem to be lately then the message isnt heard, and maybe thats why I get charity mugged so many times in my lunch hour! ( which incidentally I personally think is counter productive and will turn some people away from supporting some charities ) The Valley Vegan.............Peter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter So what is the advantage of getting in the press? BB Peter - peter hurd Friday, January 20, 2006 7:37 PM Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES Unfortunately, this sort of action rarely makes the press any more as it is not as sensational as the more violent destruction going on in the world. To put it plainly, I realy do think peple care more about terrorism, loss of human life/habitat than they do about animals loss of life. And while I applaud every action Greenpeace takes, they make the press a lot less than they used to. So if blowing up a laborartory ( empty of course ), or hijacking and sabotaging trucks etc, makes the press and then all the better as far as I am concerned, as at least the reasons are known, and the make the press. Harming people and their personal property is totally unjustifyable in my opinion mind. The Valley Vegan.................Anouk Sickler <zurumato wrote: Hi Jo, this morning, members of Greenpeace in Argentina, about 15 of them tied themselves with lock and chain to a truck that was heading to Uruguay. This truck originated from a factory in Chile, and passed tru argentina in order to dump their chemical wastes in the Uruguayan River. A source oflife of animals and people. I'm that tying themselves to this truck was completely illegal. The keys to the locks on the hands of these people where delivered oneset to the Argentinan president and the other to the UruguyianPresident, as a way to get the two countries to talk about this. The truck was stopped. However in the news the president dissmissed it as "just anenvironmental issue"even though, this was only one truck, It got the attention of thenews and now people know the name of the Chilean Factory doing this. I know that everyone here knows that vivisection is wrong. But thisarticle mentions Morrissey as being irresponsible. No one mentioned the Scientists as possibly being irresponsible. The media and articles like this are desperately trying to portray animal rights activists as Violent, Deranged, Militant Wackos. so they will take anything, even a simple comment by a Pop star andturn it around to create fear to the public. The truth is that a lot of people in the Animal Liberation Movement are very, peaceful, quiet, people with strong convictions. The reason that they burn places after rescuing bunnies is to createan immediate monetary loss and to create an immediate disruption inthe process of that lab. These corporations for example P & G, theonly thing they care about is Money. The AlF believes that an animalis not a "Property". my husband was trying to tell me that martin luther king accomplishedmore, with non-violent methods than Malcom X did. I see his point. I see Peters point and agree that violent begetsviolence. but some people feel that this isn't the 1950's anymore and that MLK had time, he had time to plan ideas, march in a protest, talk to people, give sermons, give interviews, write letters, etc.Today there is a sense of urgency, 500 african americans weren'tdying in one day, as the animals in some labs are today. There isalso increasing censorship of free ideas by the government. I support the Non-violent methods of MLK, and I believe thatpeaceful protest can accomplish many things, however sometimes you have to go a little extra way, break the law, as Rosa Parksdid, in order to be heard. "The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder ofanimals as theynow look on the murder of men." -- Leonardo da Vinci, The animals of the world exist for their own reasons.They were not made for humans any more than black people were made forwhitesor women for men. - Alice Walker , "heartwerk" wrote:>> Everyone here agrees that vivisection is wrong - so you are preaching > to the converted.> > I don't think that burning places down has ever stopped vivisection. > What is the point of getting yourself arrested if it doesn't have a > successful outcome? > > It is no good committing a crime because you are het up about > something if it doesn't achieve anything - and the only thing that > this sort of 'protest' has achieved is to make new laws against > protest of all kinds.> > Jo> >To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
