Guest guest Report post Posted October 19, 2005 i disagree we only have no control because we let things happen if ppl were allowed to add two and two together, maybe somethings would change we don't have to build our house of straw when we already know the big bad wolf(poor wolves, such a bad pr rep) is hanging around the village peter hurd Oct 19, 2005 1:29 PM Re: Re: bird flu And sales of twin neck guitars would sky rocket! Seriously, shit happens, why worry over something that you have little or no control over? you could get run over tomorrow, but it aint going to stop you crossing roads is it? We all gotta go some time. The Valley Vegan.............. Smiling in the face of adversity...........fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: i'm not saying panici'm saying be awarefore warned is fore armed and all thattho..we'd look strange with 4 armsheartwerk Oct 19, 2005 1:17 PM Subject: Re: bird fluThe governments seem to want to panic everyone - it's sort of likegossip really. I don't think it's likely to drift. I reckon the bestthing to do is for everyone to try to be as fit as possible, andrather than worry have a supply of natural immune boosters and naturalanti-virals ready. If we all worry we will make ourselves ill.JoFraggle wrote : i'm talking about its mortality rate in birds(also in ppl)if this more dangerous version mutates, and gets a genetic *drift* soits easily suceptible and transmisible from person toperson...umm....thats a problemTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 20, 2005 If you'd be more specific Fraggle we could have a discussion, but what you say below could be right or wrong depending on what you're referring to. Jo Fraggle wrote : i disagree we only have no control because we let things happen if ppl were allowed to add two and two together, maybe somethings would change we don't have to build our house of straw when we already know the big bad wolf(poor wolves, such a bad pr rep) is hanging around the village Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 20, 2005 Hi Fraggle > i'm talking about its mortality rate in birds(also in ppl) > if this more dangerous version mutates, and gets a genetic *drift* so its easily suceptible and transmisible from person to > person...umm....thats a problem But if it mutates, it won't be the same disease, so the mortality rates seen thus far will be meaningless! BB Peter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 20, 2005 Hi Fraggle > tho..we'd look strange with 4 arms But think how handy it would be :-) BB Peter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 20, 2005 Brave words Fraggle me boy, if a bit idealist and impractical, but as I `ve said before, when the revolution comes , I`m with you. The Valley Vegan............. This is joe public speakingI’m controlled in the body, controlled in the mindTotalC-o-n control - that means you!fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: i disagree we only have no control because we let things happen if ppl were allowed to add two and two together, maybe somethings would change we don't have to build our house of straw when we already know the big bad wolf(poor wolves, such a bad pr rep) is hanging around the village peter hurd Oct 19, 2005 1:29 PM Re: Re: bird flu And sales of twin neck guitars would sky rocket! Seriously, shit happens, why worry over something that you have little or no control over? you could get run over tomorrow, but it aint going to stop you crossing roads is it? We all gotta go some time. The Valley Vegan.............. Smiling in the face of adversity...........fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: i'm not saying panici'm saying be awarefore warned is fore armed and all thattho..we'd look strange with 4 armsheartwerk Oct 19, 2005 1:17 PM Subject: Re: bird fluThe governments seem to want to panic everyone - it's sort of likegossip really. I don't think it's likely to drift. I reckon the bestthing to do is for everyone to try to be as fit as possible, andrather than worry have a supply of natural immune boosters and naturalanti-virals ready. If we all worry we will make ourselves ill.JoFraggle wrote : i'm talking about its mortality rate in birds(also in ppl)if this more dangerous version mutates, and gets a genetic *drift* soits easily suceptible and transmisible from person toperson...umm....thats a problemTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 20, 2005 one can't stop trying and caring and hoping if i did..i'd be a mewing ball in the corner... personally..i don't see much hope fer about anything but..i'm a stubborn lil bugger... peter hurd Oct 20, 2005 11:07 AM Re: Re: bird flu Brave words Fraggle me boy, if a bit idealist and impractical, but as I `ve said before, when the revolution comes , I`m with you. The Valley Vegan............. This is joe public speakingIm controlled in the body, controlled in the mindTotalC-o-n control - that means you!fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: i disagree we only have no control because we let things happen if ppl were allowed to add two and two together, maybe somethings would change we don't have to build our house of straw when we already know the big bad wolf(poor wolves, such a bad pr rep) is hanging around the village peter hurd Oct 19, 2005 1:29 PM Re: Re: bird flu And sales of twin neck guitars would sky rocket! Seriously, shit happens, why worry over something that you have little or no control over? you could get run over tomorrow, but it aint going to stop you crossing roads is it? We all gotta go some time. The Valley Vegan.............. Smiling in the face of adversity...........fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: i'm not saying panici'm saying be awarefore warned is fore armed and all thattho..we'd look strange with 4 armsheartwerk Oct 19, 2005 1:17 PM Subject: Re: bird fluThe governments seem to want to panic everyone - it's sort of likegossip really. I don't think it's likely to drift. I reckon the bestthing to do is for everyone to try to be as fit as possible, andrather than worry have a supply of natural immune boosters and naturalanti-virals ready. If we all worry we will make ourselves ill.JoFraggle wrote : i'm talking about its mortality rate in birds(also in ppl)if this more dangerous version mutates, and gets a genetic *drift* soits easily suceptible and transmisible from person toperson...umm....thats a problemTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 20, 2005 not necessarily all it needs to do is mutate so its transmisible from human to human... it doesn't have to affect its lethality at all.. damn, i love when i'm the only one holding onto a point jhahahahahahah Peter Oct 20, 2005 10:42 AM Re: bird flu Hi Fraggle > i'm talking about its mortality rate in birds(also in ppl) > if this more dangerous version mutates, and gets a genetic *drift* so its easily suceptible and transmisible from person to > person...umm....thats a problem But if it mutates, it won't be the same disease, so the mortality rates seen thus far will be meaningless! BB Peter To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 20, 2005 personally i'd like a lemur tail... 4 arms would just make me that much more clumsy Peter <metalscarab Oct 20, 2005 10:49 AM Re: Re: bird flu Hi Fraggle > tho..we'd look strange with 4 arms But think how handy it would be :-) BB Peter To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 20, 2005 Hi Fraggle > not necessarily > all it needs to do is mutate so its transmisible from human to human... I agree that it's not necessarily... it's just not necessarily either way. It might become nothing worse than a minor cold, or it might become 100% fatal... the point is that if it mutates, then it has changed, so it seems dubious to be making any assumptions about its lethality. > damn, i love when i'm the only one holding onto a point You're doing a good job :-) BB Peter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 20, 2005 granted it could do anything but..the chances of it mutating so its communicable between humans is (imo) an easier leap then it mutating and becoming less lethal... besides..it never hurts to prepare for the worse.. then any surprises will be pleasant ones, no? Hi Fraggle > not necessarily > all it needs to do is mutate so its transmisible from human to human... I agree that it's not necessarily... it's just not necessarily either way. It might become nothing worse than a minor cold, or it might become 100% fatal... the point is that if it mutates, then it has changed, so it seems dubious to be making any assumptions about its lethality. > damn, i love when i'm the only one holding onto a point You're doing a good job :-) BB Peter To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 20, 2005 Hi Fraggle > granted it could do anything > but..the chances of it mutating so its communicable between humans is (imo) an easier leap then it mutating and becoming > less lethal... I don't know enough about the way viruses mutate to have any idea. But it does seem that the human body is somewhat different to chickens, and therefore the flu mutated in a way that it was more easily transmitted to the human body, then there would presumably be an effect on how the human body coped - that seems to make logical sense to me. > besides..it never hurts to prepare for the worse.. > then any surprises will be pleasant ones, no? That depends entirely on what those preparations are.... I wouldn't personally say that filling everyone with antibiotics (or whatever it is they want to inject us with) would be a good preparation - the surprises could be very unpleasant! Nor would I say that slaughtering chickens would be a good preparation. I would say that individuals staying as fit and healthy as they can would be good preparation... but then it would be good preparation for anything, and, of course, keeping chickens in better conditions so they are less likely to catch it would be equally good preparation. Sadly, I think they are more likely to go for the first of my suggestions, than the second. BB Peter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 20, 2005 Ooooooooh! Jo , " Peter " <metalscarab@g...> wrote: > > Hi Fraggle > > > tho..we'd look strange with 4 arms > > But think how handy it would be :-) > > BB > Peter > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 20, 2005 Are you a tail-less Fraggle then? Jo , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > > personally i'd like a lemur tail... > > 4 arms would just make me that much more clumsy > > > Peter <metalscarab@g...> > Oct 20, 2005 10:49 AM > > Re: Re: bird flu > > Hi Fraggle > > > tho..we'd look strange with 4 arms > > But think how handy it would be :-) > > BB > Peter > > > > > To send an email to - > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 20, 2005 Hi Peter I agree that staying fit is the best idea. I also think it's a good idea to have a little supply of vitamin C and echinacea, and elder tea etc. in, just incase. They might just take the edge of any bad flus, and if it turns out to be deadly, these things might just make the difference between dying and recovering. I still think it unlikely that it will be as big a problem as the authorities are suggesting. I also remember sending in an article that talked about hand washing being one of the most important and effective ways of avoiding flu, including avian flu. It is when we get the germs on our hands and touch our eyes or nose, that the germs are transferred. Lots of little things we can do - and hopefully stay healthy :-) BB Jo , " Peter " <metalscarab@g...> wrote: > > Hi Fraggle > > > granted it could do anything > > but..the chances of it mutating so its communicable between humans is (imo) an easier leap then it mutating and becoming > > less lethal... > > I don't know enough about the way viruses mutate to have any idea. But it does seem that the human body is somewhat different to chickens, and therefore the flu mutated in a way that it was more easily transmitted to the human body, then there would presumably be an effect on how the human body coped - that seems to make logical sense to me. > > > besides..it never hurts to prepare for the worse.. > > then any surprises will be pleasant ones, no? > > That depends entirely on what those preparations are.... I wouldn't personally say that filling everyone with antibiotics (or whatever it is they want to inject us with) would be a good preparation - the surprises could be very unpleasant! Nor would I say that slaughtering chickens would be a good preparation. I would say that individuals staying as fit and healthy as they can would be good preparation... but then it would be good preparation for anything, and, of course, keeping chickens in better conditions so they are less likely to catch it would be equally good preparation. Sadly, I think they are more likely to go for the first of my suggestions, than the second. > > BB > Peter > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 20, 2005 my guess is pigs would be an intermediary... and..i don't think everyone gettin shots is the right approach anyways... besides, how can they make a vaccine fer something that technically doesn't exist yet.. the most you could hope for would be to get something that would give you limited immunization.. once the virus mutates, the protein sheth is going to change..the anti-bodies from wotever dumb vaccine they give people prolly won't *fit* Peter Oct 20, 2005 12:25 PM Re: bird flu Hi Fraggle > granted it could do anything > but..the chances of it mutating so its communicable between humans is (imo) an easier leap then it mutating and becoming > less lethal... I don't know enough about the way viruses mutate to have any idea. But it does seem that the human body is somewhat different to chickens, and therefore the flu mutated in a way that it was more easily transmitted to the human body, then there would presumably be an effect on how the human body coped - that seems to make logical sense to me. > besides..it never hurts to prepare for the worse.. > then any surprises will be pleasant ones, no? That depends entirely on what those preparations are.... I wouldn't personally say that filling everyone with antibiotics (or whatever it is they want to inject us with) would be a good preparation - the surprises could be very unpleasant! Nor would I say that slaughtering chickens would be a good preparation. I would say that individuals staying as fit and healthy as they can would be good preparation... but then it would be good preparation for anything, and, of course, keeping chickens in better conditions so they are less likely to catch it would be equally good preparation. Sadly, I think they are more likely to go for the first of my suggestions, than the second. BB Peter To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 21, 2005 Flu type A has been around forever. Centuries and is slow to mutate. Avian flu has been around and folks have been dying from it, documented, from at least 1997. There have been no cases of human to human, it is all bird to human. If it was going to mutate, that's over 8 years, it probably would have done so by now. Lynda - fraggle Thursday, October 20, 2005 10:14 AM Re: bird flu i disagree.... influenza viruses mutate..that is what they do..that is how they survive..that is how they jump from one species to another..viruses in general mutate... and, the epidemics of 1957 and 1968 killed over 100,000 in the US alone.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 21, 2005 Hi Jo If I remember correctly, he once had a purple tail! BB Nikki , " heartwerk " <jo.heartwork@g...> wrote: > > Are you a tail-less Fraggle then? > > Jo > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 21, 2005 sadly...it is just mousey brown now *sigh* earthstrm <nikkimack Oct 21, 2005 2:09 PM Re: bird flu Hi Jo If I remember correctly, he once had a purple tail! BB Nikki , " heartwerk " <jo.heartwork@g...> wrote: > > Are you a tail-less Fraggle then? > > Jo > To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 23, 2005 I heard on the news last night that a vaccine has been made in, um, I can't remember what country. I was trying to sleep and my DH was trying to stay awake. Guess which was doing which...fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: my guess is pigs would be an intermediary... and..i don't think everyone gettin shots is the right approach anyways... besides, how can they make a vaccine fer something that technically doesn't exist yet.. the most you could hope for would be to get something that would give you limited immunization.. once the virus mutates, the protein sheth is going to change..the anti-bodies from wotever dumb vaccine they give people prolly won't *fit* Peter Oct 20, 2005 12:25 PM Re: bird flu Hi Fraggle > granted it could do anything > but..the chances of it mutating so its communicable between humans is (imo) an easier leap then it mutating and becoming > less lethal... I don't know enough about the way viruses mutate to have any idea. But it does seem that the human body is somewhat different to chickens, and therefore the flu mutated in a way that it was more easily transmitted to the human body, then there would presumably be an effect on how the human body coped - that seems to make logical sense to me. > besides..it never hurts to prepare for the worse.. > then any surprises will be pleasant ones, no? That depends entirely on what those preparations are.... I wouldn't personally say that filling everyone with antibiotics (or whatever it is they want to inject us with) would be a good preparation - the surprises could be very unpleasant! Nor would I say that slaughtering chickens would be a good preparation. I would say that individuals staying as fit and healthy as they can would be good preparation... but then it would be good preparation for anything, and, of course, keeping chickens in better conditions so they are less likely to catch it would be equally good preparation. Sadly, I think they are more likely to go for the first of my suggestions, than the second. BB Peter To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 25, 2005 My son too. We had them each year even last year with the shortage, but strangely enuf this year my doc doesn't seem to have any serum yet. The nurse keeps telling us to go get them as we are high risk, but I wanna get them there as we don't have to pay anything for them with our insurance. The cheapest I've seen is $18 otherwise. I heard this morning that they are now giving then out to everyone not just high risk and that there was a confirmed case of the flu about a week ago so it was an early start to the flu season. I know I really feel nasty for about a week after the shot, but I guess it could be worse if we catch the flu. There was a health store that was going to offer them without any preservatives, but that was cancelled as it turned out what they received did have preservatives in it.heartwerk <jo.heartwork wrote: Hi JonnieUnfortuantely you are in a difficult position as you have a heart condition. You may well be one of the few people who actually do need the shots. I'm no expert, but maybe you could read as much as possible on the internet etc. and then judge.Jo , Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens> wrote:>> Each year my doc makes it quite clear that my son and I are to get 'shot'. I wonder if I should reconsider this practice?> > Lynda <lurine@s...> wrote:I think we're gearing up for another pharmaceutical company make a mint on > flu vaccines push.> > The CDC numbers are:> In 1999, 1665 people died in the U.S. from flu.> In 2000, 1765 deaths.> In 2001, 257 deaths.> In 2002, 753 deaths.> > Lynda> - > "fraggle" <EBbrewpunx@e...>> > Friday, October 14, 2005 7:39 AM> bird flu> > > > NewScientist.com - NEWSFLASH> >> > ---> > ---> > Deadly Asian bird flu is in Europe> >> > The bird flu outbreak in turkeys in northwest Turkey was caused by> > the same strain of H5N1 bird flu that was isolated in August 2005> > from poultry in Siberia - meaning that the deadly strain has reached> > Europe as feared.> >> > It is the same virus as found in wild birds in Mongolia and Qinghai> > Lake in China in spring 2004. Those in turn derived from the H5N1> > that has spread across East Asia, so far killing at least 60 people.> > It is thought to pose the greatest current risk of a human flu> > pandemic.> >> > Click on the link below for the full story on NewScientist.com/news:> > http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8150> >> > Science and technology news and features updated daily at> > http://www.newscientist.com> >> > Subscribe to New Scientist magazine and get 4 FREE ISSUES at:> > http://www.qssa.co.uk/new_scientist/default.asp?promcode=2169> >> >> > When they kick out your front door> > How you gonna come?> > With your hands on your head> > Or on the trigger of your gun> >> > When the law break in> > How you gonna go?> > Shot down on the pavement> > Or waiting on death row> >> >> >> > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 25, 2005 The interesting thing is that they tell pregnant women to not eat certain fish and not to eat too much fish because of mercury and the link between mercury and autism. then they tell women to get the flu vaccine which has mercury in it. Hmmmm, and the logic is where? Lynda - Jonnie Hellens Tuesday, October 25, 2005 2:04 PM Re: Re: bird flu My son too. We had them each year even last year with the shortage, but strangely enuf this year my doc doesn't seem to have any serum yet. The nurse keeps telling us to go get them as we are high risk, but I wanna get them there as we don't have to pay anything for them with our insurance. The cheapest I've seen is $18 otherwise. I heard this morning that they are now giving then out to everyone not just high risk and that there was a confirmed case of the flu about a week ago so it was an early start to the flu season. I know I really feel nasty for about a week after the shot, but I guess it could be worse if we catch the flu. There was a health store that was going to offer them without any preservatives, but that was cancelled as it turned out what they received did have preservatives in it.heartwerk <jo.heartwork wrote: Hi JonnieUnfortuantely you are in a difficult position as you have a heart condition. You may well be one of the few people who actually do need the shots. I'm no expert, but maybe you could read as much as possible on the internet etc. and then judge.Jo , Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens> wrote:>> Each year my doc makes it quite clear that my son and I are to get 'shot'. I wonder if I should reconsider this practice?> > Lynda <lurine@s...> wrote:I think we're gearing up for another pharmaceutical company make a mint on > flu vaccines push.> > The CDC numbers are:> In 1999, 1665 people died in the U.S. from flu.> In 2000, 1765 deaths.> In 2001, 257 deaths.> In 2002, 753 deaths.> & g t; Lynda> - > "fraggle" <EBbrewpunx@e...>> > Friday, October 14, 2005 7:39 AM> bird flu> > > > NewScientist.com - NEWSFLASH> >> > ---> > ---> > Deadly Asian bird flu is in Europe> >> > The bird flu outbreak in turkeys in northwest Turkey was caused by> > the same strain of H5N1 bird flu that was isolated in August 2005> > from poultry in Siberia - meaning that the deadly strain has reached> > Europe as feared.> >> > It is the same virus as found in wild birds in Mongolia and Qinghai> > Lake in China in spring 2004. Those in turn derived from the H5N1> > that has spread across East Asia, so far killing at least 60 people.> > It is thought to pose the greatest current risk of a human flu> > pandemic.> >> > Click on the link below for the full story on NewScientist.com/news:> > http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8150> >> > Science and technology news and features updated daily at> > http://www.newscientist.com> >> > Subscribe to New Scientist magazine and get 4 FREE ISSUES at:> > http://www.qssa.co.uk/new_scientist/default.asp?promcode=2169> >> >> > When they kick out your front door> > How you gonna come?> > With your hands on your head> > Or on the trigger of your gun> >> > When the law break in> > How you gonna go?> > Shot down on the pavement> > Or waiting on death row> >> >> >> > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 25, 2005 i can't even recall the last time i had a cold er the flu... Jonnie Hellens Oct 25, 2005 2:04 PM Re: Re: bird flu My son too. We had them each year even last year with the shortage, but strangely enuf this year my doc doesn't seem to have any serum yet. The nurse keeps telling us to go get them as we are high risk, but I wanna get them there as we don't have to pay anything for them with our insurance. The cheapest I've seen is $18 otherwise. I heard this morning that they are now giving then out to everyone not just high risk and that there was a confirmed case of the flu about a week ago so it was an early start to the flu season. I know I really feel nasty for about a week after the shot, but I guess it could be worse if we catch the flu. There was a health store that was going to offer them without any preservatives, but that was cancelled as it turned out what they received did have preservatives in it.heartwerk <jo.heartwork wrote: Hi JonnieUnfortuantely you are in a difficult position as you have a heart condition. You may well be one of the few people who actually do need the shots. I'm no expert, but maybe you could read as much as possible on the internet etc. and then judge.Jo But they've all gone mad now Well you'd be pretty mad too If what happened to cows happened to you Having your children taken away Forced to stand in a pen each day Fed the shit from other dead things Then chopped to bits... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 25, 2005 not that i'd want anyone to get a vaccine but isn't there a thimerosal free version available now..albeit in very limited qty's? Lynda Oct 25, 2005 5:16 PM Re: Re: bird flu The interesting thing is that they tell pregnant women to not eat certain fish and not to eat too much fish because of mercury and the link between mercury and autism. then they tell women to get the flu vaccine which has mercury in it. Hmmmm, and the logic is where? Lynda But they've all gone mad now Well you'd be pretty mad too If what happened to cows happened to you Having your children taken away Forced to stand in a pen each day Fed the shit from other dead things Then chopped to bits... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 26, 2005 There was supposed to be but it seems to have evaporated in thin air. Lynda - fraggle Tuesday, October 25, 2005 3:10 PM Re: Re: bird flu not that i'd want anyone to get a vaccine but isn't there a thimerosal free version available now..albeit in very limited qty's? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
