Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Well, perhaps not on your side of the pond but there is at last one case of human death from rabies from bats each year. Six of the 45 bat species in the U.S. have transmitted rabies to humans: the silver-haired bat (Lasionyctens noctivagans), the Mexican free-tailed bat (Tadarida brasiliensis), the big brown bat (Eptesicus fuscus), the eastern pipistrelle (Pipistrellus subflavus) and two suspected being western (Myotis ciliolabrum) and small-footed myotis. And then there are eight confirmed death due to variances of hte rabies virus which are attributed to bats living in buildings. The problem with bats is usually children. They see a small critter and they pick them up. They don't even realise they have been bitten or if they do, don't tell a parent. Further, histoplasmosis is spread by bats! It is relatively common in areas adjacent to the Ohio and Mississippi rivers. I didn't invent this just to chat on an e-mail list. We routinely take kids (we've been leading 4-H groups, fostering kids) on camping trips, caving, hiking, etc. and give them a standard on what to watch for. Our standard is don't touch the animals, not scare tactics but we have to be aware of what we are around inorder to keep the little 2 legged charges safe. I've worked in hospitals and been doing my own vet work for over 35 years and this is standard information available in the U.S. If your information is different on your side of the pond, so be it but that doesn't make "our" information wrong. Lynda From 1951 - 2005 49 cases (47 deaths*, 2 survivors): 8 children, 41 adults. 47 deaths reported since 1951. An average of less than one death per year. *Of the 47 deaths, 5 contracted rabies through organ transplants. Because many cases were post-mortem or late moribund diagnoses, exposure histories could not be obtained from the patients. The most likely explanation for these cases is an unreported bite. 2004/WI/15-year-old female Mexican Free-tailed Patient bitten by sick bat she handled (SURVIVED). 2004/AK,AL,OK,TX Mexican Free-tailed Organ receipients from AK donor. 2004/AK/20-year-old male Unknown Patient bitten by bat but did not seek treatment. 2003/CA/66-year-old male Silver-haired Patient bitten by bat but did not seek treatment. 2002/IA/20-year-old male Silver-haired/Eastern Pipistrelle No known contact. 2002/TN/13-year-old male Silver-haired/Eastern Pipistrelle Patient too ill to be questioned about exposure history, but family reported that he had found a sick bat on the ground and took it home. 2002/CA/28-year-old male Mexican Free-tailed Patient comatose before rabies diagnosis made. Patient had killed a bat in his house earlier that month. 2000/WI/69-year-old male Silver-haired/Eastern Pipistrelle Post-mortem diagnosis. Friend said he had removed bats from his house with bare hands. 2000/MN/47-year-old male Silver-haired Patient too ill to provide information regarding exposure history. Friend reported patient was bitten when killing a bat. 2000/GA/26-year-old male Mexican Free-tailed Post-mortem diagnosis. Co-workers reported a bat had landed on him while he slept. 2000/CA/49-year-old male Mexican Free-tailed Patient too ill to provide information regarding possible exposure history. Patient did not report contact with bat, but wife reported he had caught and removed bat from house. 1998/VI/29-year-old male Silver-haired/Eastern Pipistrelle Patient too ill to provide information regarding possible exposure history. Patient was prison inmate who repaired fences and fed cattle, worked in paper recycling facility and along roadsides cleaning up trash and debris. 1997/NJ/32-year-old male Silver-haired/Eastern Pipistrelle On two separate occasions, patient captured bats in home by hand using a cloth and released them outside. Patient and wife did not recall whether or not he had been bitten. 1997/TX/71-year-old male Silver-haired/Eastern Pipistrelle First report involving both victim and wife stated no contact; days later wife changed story to say that bat was found in patient's hotel room and landed on left shoulder. 1997/WA/64-year-old male Big Brown Post-mortem diagnosis. Patient apparently not questioned, or too ill to provide information regarding possible exposure history. 1997/MT/65-year-old male Silver-haired Post-mortem diagnosis. Family reported bat was in patient's house for several days and that patient often baited traps with killed animals. Patient apparently not questioned, or too ill to provide information regarding possible exposure history. 1996/MT/49-year-old male Silver-haired Patient was a lumber mill custodian where bats were observed in area; denied having physical contact with bats. 1996/KY/42-year-old female Silver-haired/Eastern Pipistrelle Patient denied history of animal bites. 1995/CA/74-year-old male Silver-haired Post-mortem diagnosis. Patient sometimes handled bats; Patient apparently not questioned, or too ill to provide information regarding possible exposure history. 1995/CT/13-year-old female Silver-haired/Eastern Pipistrelle Bat found flying in patient's home; patient denied history of animal bites. 1995/CA/27-year-old male Mexican Free-tailed Post-mortem diagnosis. A family member believed a bat had landed on patient's chest and been brushed off, but was unable to provide specific details on the incident. Patient apparently not questioned, or too ill to provide information regarding possible exposure history. 1995/WA/4-year-old female Myotis californicus or M. ciliolabrum Child apparently too ill to provide information regarding exposure history. Family members reported finding abnormally behaving bat in her bedroom and disposing of it; bat later retrieved and found to be rabid. Per CDC,"This strange behavior should have led to a strong suspicion of rabies." 1994/CA/44-year-old male Silver-haired Post-mortem diagnosis. Patient cared for sick kitten that was not checked; patient apparently not questioned, or too ill to provide information regarding possible exposure history. 1994/TN/42-year-old female Silver-haired/Eastern Pipistrelle Patient had many (26) unvaccinated pets; denied history of animal bites. 1994/WV/41-year-old male Silver-haired/Eastern Pipistrelle Post-mortem diagnosis. Bat described as a possible red bat, but likely was a reddish-colored pipistrelle. Family and friends reported patient shot and handled bat, running his fingers along its teeth. Patient apparently not questioned, or too ill to provide information regarding possible exposure history. 1994/AL/24-year-old female Mexican Free-tailed Post-mortem diagnosis. Patient routinely removed dead/dying bats from place of employment. 1993/TX/82-year-old male Silver-haired/Eastern Pipistrelle Patient too ill to provide information regarding potential exposure. Patient was exposed to dying cow 3 months earlier.. 1993/NY/11-year-old female Silver-haired/Eastern Pipistrelle Post-mortem diagnosis. Caught and caged a possibly sick bat. Report unclear about whether or not patient was ever questioned about potential exposure history. 1991/GA/27-year-old female Silver-haired/Eastern Pipistrelle Post-mortem diagnosis. Patient apparently not questioned, or too ill to provide information regarding possible exposure history. 1991/AR/29-year-old male Silver-haired/Eastern Pipistrelle Friends reported him bitten while catching and killing an abnormally behaving bat. Report unclear about whether or not patient was ever questioned about potential exposure history. 1990/TX/22-year-old male Mexican Free-tailed Bitten while tormenting bat and did not seek medical attention. 1984/PA/12-year-old male Myotis (probably M. leibii) Report unclear as to patient's coherence during questioning or who was questioned regarding potential exposure history. 1983/MI/5-year-old female Silver-haired Patient reported bite to parents. 1979/KY/45-year-old male Silver-haired/Eastern Pipistrelle Patient reported no known exposure to potentially rabid animals. 1979/OK/24-year-old male Silver-haired/Eastern Pipistrelle Patient's occupation was woodcutter; although no exposure was reported, activities prior to illness provided potential for bite exposure. Unclear whether patient was questioned. 1978/ID/37-year-old female Silver-haired Apparently post-mortem diagnosis. Rabies contracted through corneal transplant. 1978/OR/39-year-old male Isolate unavailable (Donor for Idaho case above.) Post-mortem diagnosis. Patient not questioned; he was a professional lumberman and avid trapper. 1976/MD/55-year-old female Silver-haired/Eastern Pipistrelle Bitten on the hand by a bat reported as a Big brown bat. Patient vaccinated forty-four hours after bitten, but died anyway. Postmortem findings suggested possibility of postvaccinal reaction from duck-embryo vaccine, direct viral infection, or both. 1973/KY/26-year-old male Silver-haired/Eastern Pipistrelle Patient was aware of being bitten on the ear by a bat while in bed; bat not recovered and patient did not seek medical attention. 1971/NJ/64-year-old male Species not reported Man reported being bitten on mouth by abnormally behaving bat while on his porch; bat not recovered but he was given duck-embryo vaccine. 1970/OH/6-year-old male Big Brown Boy bitten on hand while asleep. Bat tested positive for rabies. Patient vaccinated with duck-embryo vaccine and survived. (SURVIVED) 1959/WI/44-year-old male Species not reported Man reported being bitten on ear by bat while asleep; killed and disposed of bat without testing. 1959/CA/53-year-old male Mexican Free-tailed Alleged aerosol Texas caves. Patient denied history of animal bite but a Friend reported seeing blood on his face he presumed to have been from a bat bite while in Frio Cave. 1958/CA/53-year-old female Silver-haired Woman reported being bitten while handling abnormally behaving Silver-haired bat. Bat later tested positive for rabies; vaccinations not begun until one month after bite. 1956/TX/38-year-old male Mexican Free-tailed Alleged aerosol from Texas caves. Patient denied history of animal bite but was a State rabies investigator and had handled thousands of bats. 1951/TX/43-year-old female Species not reported Post-mortem diagnosis. Woman bitten while handling sick bat she picked up off the road. - Peter Sunday, October 02, 2005 2:12 PM Re: Re: possible "carnivore" origin of SARS Hi Lynda > Bats are notorious as disease carriers and protecting their habitat or the ecosystem wouldn't protect humans from any > disease they carry. The "standard" statement is that vampire bats (the only species which "bites" anything bigger than insects) spread rabies... and yet, there has not been one single proven case of a human catching rabies from a bat. > They bite people What complete baldredash. Vampire bats very ocassionally bite humans, but it is *very* rare - they usually pick on poultry and cattle. And there is no actual evidence that they spread diseases. > There are cases every year of folks who get rabies from bats that either haven't been bitten (enhaled dust from an attic that > they were living in) or were bitten and didn't even know they had been near a bat. Nope - there's not a single proven case... just a lot of assumption. > And, btw, just to be clear, I like bats and think they are soooo homely they are cute <g>! At least we agree on that. BB Peter Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/116 - Release 9/30/2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Hi Peter I love bats! I remember when I was younger one of our zoos had an exhibit that was an indoor open area where the bats were allowed to fly free. I just loved being among them even though I hated that they were locked up in there. I always thought that bats avoided humans for the most part. They are able to pick us up very well with their sonar and don't know what they would want with us. I thought the worst they did was when flying blind and got too close got caught in people's hair and this is what scared them (the people and the bats). Though I could be wrong. But I do agree that I have never heard of a rabies case in humans from them or any bites from bats on humans. BB Nikki , " Peter " <metalscarab@g...> wrote: > Hi Lynda > > > Bats are notorious as disease carriers and protecting their habitat or the ecosystem wouldn't protect humans from any > > disease they carry. > > The " standard " statement is that vampire bats (the only species which " bites " anything bigger than insects) spread rabies... and yet, there has not been one single proven case of a human catching rabies from a bat. > > > They bite people > > What complete baldredash. Vampire bats very ocassionally bite humans, but it is *very* rare - they usually pick on poultry and cattle. And there is no actual evidence that they spread diseases. > > > There are cases every year of folks who get rabies from bats that either haven't been bitten (enhaled dust from an attic that > > they were living in) or were bitten and didn't even know they had been near a bat. > > Nope - there's not a single proven case... just a lot of assumption. > > > And, btw, just to be clear, I like bats and think they are soooo homely they are cute <g>! > > At least we agree on that. > > BB > Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Hi Nikki > I love bats! Me too... in case you hadn't guessed! I have a small collection of them (well, not real ones, but soft toys and pewter versions!) > I remember when I was younger one of our zoos had an > exhibit that was an indoor open area where the bats were allowed to > fly free. I just loved being among them even though I hated that > they were locked up in there. We get quite a lot in the country in the UK.... mostly pipstrels. They're a bit rarer in towns, unfortunately, but the odd one or two still pop up! :-) > I always thought that bats avoided humans for the most part. They > are able to pick us up very well with their sonar and don't know > what they would want with us. I thought the worst they did was when > flying blind and got too close got caught in people's hair and this > is what scared them (the people and the bats). Yep - this is very true. Bat sonar is exceptionally good. I've never actually seen one get caught in someone's hair, although I gather it can happen. But I did once see one get caught in a kitchen and panic. We had to throw a towel over it to catch it before we could put it outside. Even when it was panicking at being caught in a towel it didn't make any great effort to bite those of us who were " attacking " it! > But I do agree that I have never heard of a rabies case in humans > from them or any bites from bats on humans. It's a complete myth. In some countries where vampire bats are more common, the excuse for killing them is that they spread rabies... it's about as true as the suggestion that badgers spread TB. There's never been a recorded case of that happening. Very ocassionally a vampire bat will bite a sleeping human, but it's only if there's no other source of blood around... they much prefer poultry and cattle. There's lots of intriguing things about vampire bats... like the fact that if they do bite, you can't feel it... but there's no scientific reason for it. For a long time it was thought that there was some sort of anaesthetic in their saliva, but there's not!!! BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Hi Nikki/Peter We like watching the bats in our garden at twilight. They fly around so fast, swooping and diving, but they have never bumped into us. JO - " earthstrm " <nikkimack Monday, October 03, 2005 5:12 PM Re: possible " carnivore " origin of SARS > Hi Peter > > I love bats! I remember when I was younger one of our zoos had an > exhibit that was an indoor open area where the bats were allowed to > fly free. I just loved being among them even though I hated that > they were locked up in there. > > I always thought that bats avoided humans for the most part. They > are able to pick us up very well with their sonar and don't know > what they would want with us. I thought the worst they did was when > flying blind and got too close got caught in people's hair and this > is what scared them (the people and the bats). > > Though I could be wrong. > > But I do agree that I have never heard of a rabies case in humans > from them or any bites from bats on humans. > > BB > Nikki > > , " Peter " <metalscarab@g...> wrote: > > Hi Lynda > > > > > Bats are notorious as disease carriers and protecting their > habitat or the ecosystem wouldn't protect humans from any > > > disease they carry. > > > > The " standard " statement is that vampire bats (the only species > which " bites " anything bigger than insects) spread rabies... and > yet, there has not been one single proven case of a human catching > rabies from a bat. > > > > > They bite people > > > > What complete baldredash. Vampire bats very ocassionally bite > humans, but it is *very* rare - they usually pick on poultry and > cattle. And there is no actual evidence that they spread diseases. > > > > > There are cases every year of folks who get rabies from bats > that either haven't been bitten (enhaled dust from an attic that > > > they were living in) or were bitten and didn't even know they > had been near a bat. > > > > Nope - there's not a single proven case... just a lot of > assumption. > > > > > And, btw, just to be clear, I like bats and think they are soooo > homely they are cute <g>! > > > > At least we agree on that. > > > > BB > > Peter To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Hi Peter I must say, I really do wish you knew more on the subject... It's nice to " hear " the excitement in your " voice " . I've wanted for some time now to put up a bat house, but one of the other residents here is against it. I am not sure it would work even if I could though, with the glare of lights from McDonald's on the corner and the busy street just 3 houses down they may not like it here much. > But I did once see one get caught in a kitchen and panic. We had to > throw a towel over it to catch it before we could put it outside. Even when > it was panicking at being caught in a towel it didn't make any great effort > to bite those of us who were " attacking " it! I had a similar experience one summer in WI in the middle of the country. We walked over to a friends house and one came in through the fireplace before we were there. 4 of us were sitting in candlelight in the living room telling ghost stories when it came flying past our heads. I think the boys shreiked louder than us girls to tell the truth. Unfortunately we could not get it out of the house and we didn't trust the boys not to hurt it so we left the doors and windows open and eventually it found it's way out. But it never bothered us directly while it was there. Just a bit of fluttering about. BB Nikki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Hi Jo > We like watching the bats in our garden at twilight. They fly around so > fast, swooping and diving, but they have never bumped into us. That must be wonderful to watch! BB Nikki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 Hi Peter There was a documentary on the telly about bats, and that said that bats spreading rabies to humans was a myth. BB Jo , " Peter " <metalscarab@g...> wrote: > Hi Nikki > > > I love bats! > > Me too... in case you hadn't guessed! I have a small collection of them > (well, not real ones, but soft toys and pewter versions!) > > > I remember when I was younger one of our zoos had an > > exhibit that was an indoor open area where the bats were allowed to > > fly free. I just loved being among them even though I hated that > > they were locked up in there. > > We get quite a lot in the country in the UK.... mostly pipstrels. They're a > bit rarer in towns, unfortunately, but the odd one or two still pop up! :-) > > > I always thought that bats avoided humans for the most part. They > > are able to pick us up very well with their sonar and don't know > > what they would want with us. I thought the worst they did was when > > flying blind and got too close got caught in people's hair and this > > is what scared them (the people and the bats). > > Yep - this is very true. Bat sonar is exceptionally good. I've never > actually seen one get caught in someone's hair, although I gather it can > happen. But I did once see one get caught in a kitchen and panic. We had to > throw a towel over it to catch it before we could put it outside. Even when > it was panicking at being caught in a towel it didn't make any great effort > to bite those of us who were " attacking " it! > > > But I do agree that I have never heard of a rabies case in humans > > from them or any bites from bats on humans. > > It's a complete myth. In some countries where vampire bats are more common, > the excuse for killing them is that they spread rabies... it's about as true > as the suggestion that badgers spread TB. There's never been a recorded case > of that happening. Very ocassionally a vampire bat will bite a sleeping > human, but it's only if there's no other source of blood around... they much > prefer poultry and cattle. There's lots of intriguing things about vampire > bats... like the fact that if they do bite, you can't feel it... but there's > no scientific reason for it. For a long time it was thought that there was > some sort of anaesthetic in their saliva, but there's not!!! > > BB > Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 It is Nikki. We feel quite honoured that they are around. BB Jo , " earthstrm " <nikkimack@m...> wrote: > Hi Jo > > > We like watching the bats in our garden at twilight. They fly > around so > > fast, swooping and diving, but they have never bumped into us. > > That must be wonderful to watch! > > BB > Nikki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 Hi Nikki > I must say, I really do wish you knew more on the subject... I don't know as much as I'd like to! I haven't had the time to look at it too deeply... just picked up bits and pieces here and there. And any other coloquialisms you would care to throw into that mix :-) > I've wanted for some time now to put up a bat house, but one of the > other residents here is against it. I am not sure it would work even > if I could though, with the glare of lights from McDonald's on the > corner and the busy street just 3 houses down they may not like it > here much. Couldn't you just demolish McDonald's.... you could claim it was done in defence of innocent people :-) > I had a similar experience one summer in WI in the middle of the > country. We walked over to a friends house and one came in through > the fireplace before we were there. 4 of us were sitting in > candlelight in the living room telling ghost stories when it came > flying past our heads. I think the boys shreiked louder than us > girls to tell the truth. Unfortunately we could not get it out of > the house and we didn't trust the boys not to hurt it so we left the > doors and windows open and eventually it found it's way out. But it > never bothered us directly while it was there. Just a bit of > fluttering about. That's the problem when they start to panic. They will just carry on flying round and round... and because they have such good sonar, they're very good at avoiding capture!!!! BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 OK, I must have Peter and kitten too ingrained, cuz I sat and thought for a while how the poor bat could get caught in a kitten. It also might be cuz I'm always trying to do 12 things at once... I saw an animal program once where they went to a town (I wish I knew which) that each evening at sunset during a certain season, the bats would come flying out of a cave. It was unbelievable, like something you would see in a scary movie. Thousands of shadows flying around, absolutely amazing!Peter <metalscarab wrote: happen. But I did once see one get caught in a kitchen and panic. We had tothrow a towel over it to catch it before we could put it outside. Even whenit was panicking at being caught in a towel it didn't make any great effortto bite those of us who were "attacking" it!> But I do agree that I have never heard of a rabies case in humans> from them or any bites from bats on humans.It's a complete myth. In some countries where vampire bats are more common,the excuse for killing them is that they spread rabies... it's about as trueas the suggestion that badgers spread TB. There's never been a recorded caseof that happening. Very ocassionally a vampire bat will bite a sleepinghuman, but it's only if there's no other source of blood around... they muchprefer poultry and cattle. There's lots of intriguing things about vampirebats... like the fact that if they do bite, you can't feel it... but there'sno scientific reason for it. For a long time it was thought that there wassome sort of anaesthetic in their saliva, but there's not!!!BBPeterJonnie for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 When we lived in Apache Junction, we would go play tennis in the evening during summer (cuz it would get down to the upper 100's then... and the tennis courts had these really, really bright lights. The bats would fly around in the dark areas doing their thing. I wonder if the lights weren't an issue, that they prefered lower populated areas, like in AJ?earthstrm <nikkimack wrote: Hi PeterI must say, I really do wish you knew more on the subject...;)It's nice to "hear" the excitement in your "voice".I've wanted for some time now to put up a bat house, but one of the other residents here is against it. I am not sure it would work even if I could though, with the glare of lights from McDonald's on the corner and the busy street just 3 houses down they may not like it here much.> But I did once see one get caught in a kitchen and panic. We had to> throw a towel over it to catch it before we could put it outside. Even when> it was panicking at being caught in a towel it didn't make any great effort> to bite those of us who were "attacking" it!I had a similar experience one summer in WI in the middle of the country. We walked over to a friends house and one came in through the fireplace before we were there. 4 of us were sitting in candlelight in the living room telling ghost stories when it came flying past our heads. I think the boys shreiked louder than us girls to tell the truth. Unfortunately we could not get it out of the house and we didn't trust the boys not to hurt it so we left the doors and windows open and eventually it found it's way out. But it never bothered us directly while it was there. Just a bit of fluttering about.BBNikki :)Jonnie for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 Hi Peter > Couldn't you just demolish McDonald's.... you could claim it was done in > defence of innocent people :-) > Actually they are demolishing it, only to put in a new one of course. Oh I wish it would go away. But we are talking about moving sometime soon so it may no longer be an issue. BB Nikki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 http://www.kids.state.ct.us/spotlight/feature/batlady.htm http://www.batcon.org/batsmag/v16n2-3.html A couple of sites.... Peter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Lynda > Bats are notorious as disease carriers and protecting their habitat or the ecosystem wouldn't protect humans from any > disease they carry. The "standard" statement is that vampire bats (the only species which "bites" anything bigger than insects) spread rabies... and yet, there has not been one single proven case of a human catching rabies from a bat. > They bite people What complete baldredash. Vampire bats very ocassionally bite humans, but it is *very* rare - they usually pick on poultry and cattle. And there is no actual evidence that they spread diseases. > There are cases every year of folks who get rabies from bats that either haven't been bitten (enhaled dust from an attic that > they were living in) or were bitten and didn't even know they had been near a bat. Nope - there's not a single proven case... just a lot of assumption. > And, btw, just to be clear, I like bats and think they are soooo homely they are cute <g>! At least we agree on that. BB PeterJonnie for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 Lynda > Well, perhaps not on your side of the pond but there is at last one case of human death from rabies from bats each year. Nope. There are deaths which are *claimed* to be bat related. But not one single incident with *proof* of a connection. Unless you wish to argue with David Attenborough on the subject! > Six of the 45 bat species in the U.S. have transmitted rabies to humans: the silver-haired bat (Lasionyctens noctivagans), the > Mexican free-tailed bat (Tadarida brasiliensis), the big brown bat (Eptesicus fuscus), the eastern pipistrelle (Pipistrellus subflavus) > and two suspected being western (Myotis ciliolabrum) and small-footed myotis. > The problem with bats is usually children. They see a small critter and they pick them up. They don't even realise they have > been bitten or if they do, don't tell a parent. Ummmm.... pipistrelles eat insects... they'd have to be *very* small children to be of interest to pipistrelles. > I didn't invent this just to chat on an e-mail list. We routinely take kids (we've been leading 4-H groups, fostering kids) on > camping trips, caving, hiking, etc. and give them a standard on what to watch for. Our standard is don't touch the animals, not > scare tactics but we have to be aware of what we are around inorder to keep the little 2 legged charges safe. I've worked in > hospitals and been doing my own vet work for over 35 years and this is standard information available in the U.S. If your > information is different on your side of the pond, so be it but that doesn't make "our" information wrong. It's always good to be careful, so I'm not saying don't be aware of any wild animals... but my information is from a David Attenborough programme on the BBC. David Attenborough is probably the worlds most respected expert on wildlife. I think that probably trumps your work in hospitals. BTW, is there any job you *haven't* done????? Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 sorry peter there are confirmed cases of rabies in the US thru bat bites...not a lot, but there david attenborough might have only been talkin about england.... the CDC has a whole page on it.... Peter Oct 4, 2005 6:45 PM Re: Re: possible "carnivore" origin of SARS Lynda > Well, perhaps not on your side of the pond but there is at last one case of human death from rabies from bats each year. Nope. There are deaths which are *claimed* to be bat related. But not one single incident with *proof* of a connection. Unless you wish to argue with David Attenborough on the subject! > Six of the 45 bat species in the U.S. have transmitted rabies to humans: the silver-haired bat (Lasionyctens noctivagans), the > Mexican free-tailed bat (Tadarida brasiliensis), the big brown bat (Eptesicus fuscus), the eastern pipistrelle (Pipistrellus subflavus) > and two suspected being western (Myotis ciliolabrum) and small-footed myotis. > The problem with bats is usually children. They see a small critter and they pick them up. They don't even realise they have > been bitten or if they do, don't tell a parent. Ummmm.... pipistrelles eat insects... they'd have to be *very* small children to be of interest to pipistrelles. > I didn't invent this just to chat on an e-mail list. We routinely take kids (we've been leading 4-H groups, fostering kids) on > camping trips, caving, hiking, etc. and give them a standard on what to watch for. Our standard is don't touch the animals, not > scare tactics but we have to be aware of what we are around inorder to keep the little 2 legged charges safe. I've worked in > hospitals and been doing my own vet work for over 35 years and this is standard information available in the U.S. If your > information is different on your side of the pond, so be it but that doesn't make "our" information wrong. It's always good to be careful, so I'm not saying don't be aware of any wild animals... but my information is from a David Attenborough programme on the BBC. David Attenborough is probably the worlds most respected expert on wildlife. I think that probably trumps your work in hospitals. BTW, is there any job you *haven't* done????? Peter To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 Maybe the confirmed cases have happened since the programme was made. In the programme he was talking worldwide - even wherever they have the vampire bats, which apparently don't go for the neck of animals, but the legs. It was a very interesting programme. Jo , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > there are confirmed cases of rabies in the US thru bat bites...not a lot, but there david attenborough might have only been talkin about england.... the CDC has a whole page on it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 I guess you don't have much experience with small or large for that matter, wild critters. They bite because they are scared. Somehow I don't think that translates into pipistrelles thinking children are their food. AND, most critters that are easy enough for small children to pick up are usually ill. And again, it is the whole this side or that side of the pond, David Attenborough may be the most respected expert on wildlife on your side of the pond but if you asked folks on this side, from most of them you'd get a "huh, who the heck is he?" Also, I didn't think we were keeping score but if you insist, I'd put a doctor up against a television journalist any day of the week. A natural sciences course in the 40s hardly compares with folks who are currently practicing medicine. As to the question about how many jobs I've had, I didn't realise a resume was required but since you asked, it is long but I'll give ya the short version and leave out the part about hobnobbing with politicians and movie stars <g> Let's see, political activist (beginning at age 5 and including People's Park [no, Patty Heast was not kidnapped, yes, Patty Hearst was arrested on several occasions for intent to insite a riot], Alcatraz, etc.and Nancy Ling Perry was a close friend), paralegal [wanna see my Xmas cards from Melvin Belli?], Nursing Services Coordinator [rehab center], telemetry unit coordinator, radiology unit coordinator, grant writing, ranch owner, grocery store manager, fast foods manager, registrar [public school], admin asst. to the purchasing agent [City of Santa Rosa], fiscal administrator [reservation] and half a dozen other jobs. I find most businesses to be boring and I don't do bored very well, so I move on to more interesting areas. Plus, one can do more than one job at a time. I owned a ranch for 14 years while I also co-owned a meat market and managed a couple of fast foods outfits. I still do grant planning and have done it while doing other jobs. I worked with ex-offenders programs and did and still do animal rescue while working 9 to 5 jobs. Hey, and I managed to raise 6 kids of my own and a couple of dozen foster kids and "orphans" and homeschooled them, headed up 4-H groups and hauled the kids and horses to horse shows. I'm the original multi-tasker <g> And in my spare time I knit, crochet, paint, grow organic veggies, grow flowers [mostly natives and rare and endangered plants], sew, do cross-stitch, play the piano, the organ, violin and the dulcimer and the youngest kidlet and I are going to learn Japanese. What I haven't done is drive big equipment which is something I've always wanted to do. But, hey, I've still got time to do it. Maybe driving earthmovers will be my next hobby. And while I've never been a doctor or a surgeon, I have stitched up gaping wounds [117 stitches], set a broken leg and given shots and done IVs. Oh, and I was once recruited by a survivalist group, won an audition for the Mickey Mouse Club and was asked to do Playboy Magazine <<bg>> I've been an extra in movies, been interviewed on television, interviewed for books [even have a whole chapter in one devoted to me and mine] and I'm noted as a reference in articles on history. Let's see, I don't like airplanes or brussel sprouts or ocra or cooked spinach. I love broccoli, "salad" sandwiches, anything mint and books, not to eat, of course <g> Least I forget, my favorite color is purple and always has been, I don't like satin sheets and I drink green tea with lemon grass or orange pekoe tea and Diet Rite. I hate coffee. I love crunchy apples like Pippins, Granny Smith and Gravensteins. I hate mushy apples, mushrooms and soggy cabbage. Is there anything else you'd like to know? Just ask away. BTW, I don't play bridge. Lynda - Peter Tuesday, October 04, 2005 3:45 PM Re: Re: possible "carnivore" origin of SARS Lynda > Well, perhaps not on your side of the pond but there is at last one case of human death from rabies from bats each year. Nope. There are deaths which are *claimed* to be bat related. But not one single incident with *proof* of a connection. Unless you wish to argue with David Attenborough on the subject! > Six of the 45 bat species in the U.S. have transmitted rabies to humans: the silver-haired bat (Lasionyctens noctivagans), the > Mexican free-tailed bat (Tadarida brasiliensis), the big brown bat (Eptesicus fuscus), the eastern pipistrelle (Pipistrellus subflavus) > and two suspected being western (Myotis ciliolabrum) and small-footed myotis. > The problem with bats is usually children. They see a small critter and they pick them up. They don't even realise they have > been bitten or if they do, don't tell a parent. Ummmm.... pipistrelles eat insects... they'd have to be *very* small children to be of interest to pipistrelles. > I didn't invent this just to chat on an e-mail list. We routinely take kids (we've been leading 4-H groups, fostering kids) on > camping trips, caving, hiking, etc. and give them a standard on what to watch for. Our standard is don't touch the animals, not > scare tactics but we have to be aware of what we are around inorder to keep the little 2 legged charges safe. I've worked in > hospitals and been doing my own vet work for over 35 years and this is standard information available in the U.S. If your > information is different on your side of the pond, so be it but that doesn't make "our" information wrong. It's always good to be careful, so I'm not saying don't be aware of any wild animals... but my information is from a David Attenborough programme on the BBC. David Attenborough is probably the worlds most respected expert on wildlife. I think that probably trumps your work in hospitals. BTW, is there any job you *haven't* done????? Peter Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/118 - Release 10/3/2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 When we lived in Mexico we were warned, since during the warm weather lots of folks sleep outside on verandas/porches, etc., to be sure that we kept our feet covered. According to the folks there, the bats like to nip folks on their toes which would make sense when you figure that is where they go to take blood samples from babies. However, most rabies cases have little to do with " vampire " bats. And most aren't cases of bats going to look for people to bite, it is like any other rabies case and simply a roll of the dice. Sick animal and person in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or cornered/scared animal biting in defense. If folks keep their houses sealed up or stay out of caves, there is no problem. Rabies are a fact of life in the weatern hemisphere. The problem with bats is there teeth are so tiny that they leave little bitty almost paper cut like slices. People don't think of it as having been bit, particularly children. Lynda - " heartwerk " <jo.heartwork Tuesday, October 04, 2005 11:58 PM Re: possible " carnivore " origin of SARS > Maybe the confirmed cases have happened since the programme was made. > In the programme he was talking worldwide - even wherever they have > the vampire bats, which apparently don't go for the neck of animals, > but the legs. It was a very interesting programme. > > Jo > > , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: >> there are confirmed cases of rabies in the US thru bat bites...not a > lot, but there > david attenborough might have only been talkin about england.... > the CDC has a whole page on it.... To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 wasn't talking about vampire bats anyways and they go fer wherever they can easily get to the critter.... they land on the ground and walk up some sleeping critter generally, but also seen em fly up to a bovine and land on its flank.... heartwerk <jo.heartwork Oct 4, 2005 11:58 PM Re: possible " carnivore " origin of SARS Maybe the confirmed cases have happened since the programme was made. In the programme he was talking worldwide - even wherever they have the vampire bats, which apparently don't go for the neck of animals, but the legs. It was a very interesting programme. Jo I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can still do something; and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do the something that I can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 Hi Fraggle > there are confirmed cases of rabies in the US thru bat bites...not a lot, but there > david attenborough might have only been talkin about england.... > the CDC has a whole page on it.... Sorry, but the programme was about America, not England! Don't know who the CDC are, but they are arguing with the most respected naturalist in the world! BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 Hi Jo / Fraggle As I recall, vampire bats " favourite " area is the anus... apparently it's nice soft skin, so easy to pearce (partticularly in poultry)! They tend to go for legs of cattle, as that's a good place for getting a good supply of blood! On the odd occasions that they go for humans, it is ordinarily on the inside of the calf. BB Peter - " fraggle " <EBbrewpunx Wednesday, October 05, 2005 5:20 PM Re: Re: possible " carnivore " origin of SARS > wasn't talking about vampire bats anyways > and they go fer wherever they can easily get to the critter.... > they land on the ground and walk up some sleeping critter generally, but also seen em fly up to a bovine and land on its flank.... > > > > heartwerk <jo.heartwork > Oct 4, 2005 11:58 PM > > Re: possible " carnivore " origin of SARS > > Maybe the confirmed cases have happened since the programme was made. > In the programme he was talking worldwide - even wherever they have > the vampire bats, which apparently don't go for the neck of animals, > but the legs. It was a very interesting programme. > > Jo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 i use to love david attenborough i was addicted to his life on earth series in the late 70's, early 80's...every sunday on PBS... then the living planet...alas..by the time that came around in the 80's i ended up missing a ton of em...not home at nite.... Lynda Oct 5, 2005 12:35 AM Re: Re: possible "carnivore" origin of SARS And again, it is the whole this side or that side of the pond, David Attenborough may be the most respected expert on wildlife on your side of the pond but if you asked folks on this side, from most of them you'd get a "huh, who the heck is he?" I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can still do something; and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do the something that I can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 > AND, most critters that are easy enough for small children to pick > up are usually ill. Bats don't suffer from rabies! The argument is that they are carriers, but if they do manage to " carry " the rabies bacteria or virus or whatever it is, they wouldn't be ill enough for anyone to pick up. > And again, it is the whole this side or that side of the pond, > David Attenborough may be the most respected expert on wildlife on > your side of the pond but if you asked folks on this side, from > most of them you'd get a " huh, who the heck is he? " You are confusing " popular " and " respected " . Dr David Attenborough is indeed popular in the UK. I don't know how popular he is elsewhere. I do know that he is incredible well respected in the field of zoology in any country you choose to visit. > Also, I didn't think we were keeping score but if you insist, I'd > put a doctor up against a television journalist any day of the > week. A natural sciences course in the 40s hardly compares with > folks who are currently practicing medicine. Medical Doctors are experts on humans. Attenborough is a Doctor of Zoology, which is, to be blunt, a field that human physicians have absolutely no qualifications in whatsoever. So, if you want to keep score, put a doctor of zoology, who has been studying the subject for half a century, against someone who studies only human medicine, and see which one you think is *really* most likely to know a thing or two about bats. > As to the question about how many jobs I've had, I didn't realise a > resume was required but since you asked, it is long but I'll give > ya the short version and leave out the part about hobnobbing with > politicians and movie stars <g> The only reason I asked is because every time someone disagrees with you, you rebuke them with your decades of work experience in a related field. I haven't been keeping exact count, but from what you've posted on list so far, you've clocked up at least 150 years of work experience... that's pretty impressive. BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 maybe true..but when i was in northern mexico..i saw the lil vampires...(our host delighted in showing the vegans the blood suckers)...he showed us to a neighbors stall..and this lil bats were on the ground and walking up to these sleeping pigs and..umm..biting around the teats i think it has a lot to do with a. wot is easiest to reach b. wot has a good blood supply c. wot won't wake the victime *shrug* fraggle Peter <metalscarab Oct 5, 2005 10:38 AM Re: Re: possible " carnivore " origin of SARS Hi Jo / Fraggle As I recall, vampire bats " favourite " area is the anus... apparently it's nice soft skin, so easy to pearce (partticularly in poultry)! They tend to go for legs of cattle, as that's a good place for getting a good supply of blood! On the odd occasions that they go for humans, it is ordinarily on the inside of the calf. BB Peter - " fraggle " <EBbrewpunx Wednesday, October 05, 2005 5:20 PM Re: Re: possible " carnivore " origin of SARS > wasn't talking about vampire bats anyways > and they go fer wherever they can easily get to the critter.... > they land on the ground and walk up some sleeping critter generally, but also seen em fly up to a bovine and land on its flank.... > > > > heartwerk <jo.heartwork > Oct 4, 2005 11:58 PM > > Re: possible " carnivore " origin of SARS > > Maybe the confirmed cases have happened since the programme was made. > In the programme he was talking worldwide - even wherever they have > the vampire bats, which apparently don't go for the neck of animals, > but the legs. It was a very interesting programme. > > Jo To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 Doesn't really seem to mix well with animal rescue, to my mind anyway! Jo , " Lynda " <lurine@s...> wrote: > I owned a ranch for 14 years while I also co-owned a meat market and managed a couple of fast foods outfits. I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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