Guest guest Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, Susan Spain wrote: > Fraggle's cat(s) wouldn't eat it. Do you have cats, and do they like > this stuff, and have they remained energetic and happy with shiny coats > and no eye problems? I have seven cats. They all like Vegecat and Evloution. (The ones I've had since kittenhood were raised on Vegekit until they were a year old.) At feeding time, they come clamoring from all parts of the house, and line up eagerly at their bowls. They are *very* energetic and happy and purry and snuggly, and have shiny coats and good eyes. My now-deceased cat was energetic and happy and had a shiny coat and no eye problems until she was in her teens, when she develop a thyroid problem (common in cats regardless of diet; my mother's non-vegan cat had the exact same problem) and also lost her sight. The vet said her eye problem was a result of age and genetics, and was not related to diet. Jim Sinclair jisincla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 Hi Craig, Do you really think I chat like a non Vegan simply because I said our pets that we love and care for should be giving a choice in their selection of food the same way we were giving choices. I truly do understand your passion and conviction on this issue but I remain grounded on my views in reference to choice... whether human or animal we should all have a choice in what we do and at no time should one's beliefs be force upon another. It is our job to enlighten and not preach. We must take the emotions out of the situation and think about how it would make us feel if we don't have a choice... Just something to think about. Personally, I would love to see all animals free...wouldn't that be great? Unfortunately, this is not always the case. I, myself have two pets (my children) a Rabbit and a Guinea pig and that is all. I guess, you thought I had more than that...sorry, I have just the two and they are spoiled . My Guinea Pig came from a very abusive environment and it take sometime for him to trust people again but that was OK...I had all the time in the world. My Rabbit came from a very trusted breeder and was a gift to me when my first bunny passed away. However, my hat does goes off to you for recursing animals... that is just great. Good Job!!! I wish that there where more people like you :-). I read your comments on racism...I think you used it out of context here is the definition but I did understand what you were thinking about. rac·ism (rszm)n. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. Discrimination or prejudice based on race. By the way Craig, I LOVE a great debate and I can see you do too! (LOL) I hope, you are not sour with me...you must understand that "Not All Great Minds Think Alike." This is what makes us unique. This, I am sure we can both agree upon. Cannot wait to chat with you again. Rashaan I found this comment to be very interesting indeed. No, I would have to disagree with you on that my friend. I am Vegan mind, body, and soul. Craig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Rashaan, You chat with vegans yet you act like an omnivore or non Vegan. if you are keeping Rabbits and guinea pigs and they were not rescued animals, then I would say you do not understand what it is to be Vegan. (if they are rescued then hats off to you) Compassion compassion compassion ..we rescued both our dogs from the dog pound. if ... all breeders stopped breeding dogs and cats tomorrow and there were no strays then I would never keep a dog or cat. we do some rescue work with wild animals in our area the main goal is to rehabilitate not to captivate. our dogs are victims of this world and mans intervention they would not be here if it wasn't for us. so to justify additional Killing in order to feed them goes against everything Vegan. I am a Vegan for Ethical reasons first and foremost I am Vegan for Environmental & Health reasons second. what I .. eat, wear, buy , clean with, fertilize my garden with, everything I do must reflect that no animal will be harmed to produce that product. Getting back to the "pointless point" racism runs deep in the Human to animal world, kill this animal save that one, kill this colony protect that one. fill in the names or species it is all the same no matter where you look. I can provide a better meal with more of what my dogs need by feeding them the vegan diet I prepare for them than any commercial product on the market. and in doing so not harm any other animals. that to me my friend is the heart of being a Vegan, not just picking and choosing which animal will live and which will die.. Meat is Murder simple and True. now all that aside I live in Perth Western Australia, our dogs are in the Bush 5 times a week or more Kangaroos here are treated like Vermin (the battle rages) and often they get shot and left to die. when my dogs come across old bones and want to chew them (as long as it doesn't stink) I let them Anna Lise is a border collie cross about 6 years old now. she has been Vegan now for almost 4 years and without a doubt the most alert, fit and healthy dog I have ever known, her teeth are always clean no bad breath or body odour and a shinny healthy coat, she doesn't pick up the bones anymore. our other dog Romeo has been a Vegan since Jan. this year he was rescued from the pound in sad shape his rear hips looked as if he had not exercised in a year or more his fur was falling out he had 3 boils dirty teeth bad breath an odour that was foul he was farting (lol) like an old man. now 8 months later his coat is shinny, no bad breath, no body odour, only 1 of the boils is still there and it has shrunk from the size of an apricot to the size of a pea, his rear hips look normal and he rarely farts (lol). Now all of that is something to think about all the best Craig Craig, You point is pointless..."Dogs and cats in our care ARE not wild animals so there choices of food is ours not theirs." Come on Craig...I have two pets one is a Rabbit and the other is a Guinea pig and both are Vegans by nature. I would NEVER thinking of feeding them something that their don't eat. I like Meat. It's something to think about. rashaan Craig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Hiya Susan and Rashaan, we have had this debate here before Dogs and cat in our care ARE not wild animals so there choices of food is ours not theirs compassion is our choice we just share that with them my two dogs are healthy happy and FIT (too fit sometimes) energy plus etc.. so I would recommend a Vegan diet for them if you like I will forward what I feed my dogs to you it is a bit of work at first but worth it in the end all the best Craig I like your viewpoint susan...it should be the animals choice. Susan Spain <susanspain2004 wrote: Interesting... So I wonder: if cats were given vegan food side-by-side with meat-based food, would some choose to be vegan? I mean, pick that food over the meat-based stuff? Or would their instincts drive them to eat the meat, there being no "moral" choice to the killing from the perspective of the cat...rashaan laurent <rnlaurent wrote: I am vegan but I don't know if I would want my cat or dog to do the same. The same way it was my choice not to eat animal product...I would want the same for my pet. rashaanJo bb <Heartwork wrote: Yes - Veggiekat and Veggiekitten.Jo Topic for debate: vegan cats: yes or no?> Anyone's two cents welcome on this discussion!To send an email to - Mail is new and improved - Check it out! To send an email to - Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. 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Guest guest Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 Hi I presume you mean that pets should be offered both meat and vegan so that they can choose. You cannot really follow through this concept though because if they are to have yhorough freedom to choose then you must offer them a serving of every food in the world! - just so they have a proper choice. My understanding of cats is that if they don't like what you are feeding them they attach themselves to another home where they like the menu better. Jo Do you really think I chat like a non Vegan simply because I said our pets that we love and care for should be giving a choice in their selection of food the same way we were giving choices. I truly do understand your passion and conviction on this issue but I remain grounded on my views in reference to choice... whether human or animal we should all have a choice in what we do and at no time should one's beliefs be force upon another. It is our job to enlighten and not preach. We must take the emotions out of the situation and think about how it would make us feel if we don't have a choice... Just something to think about. Personally, I would love to see all animals free...wouldn't that be great? Unfortunately, this is not always the case. I, myself have two pets (my children) a Rabbit and a Guinea pig and that is all. I guess, you thought I had more than that...sorry, I have just the two and they are spoiled . My Guinea Pig came from a very abusive environment and it take sometime for him to trust people again but that was OK...I had all the time in the world. My Rabbit came from a very trusted breeder and was a gift to me when my first bunny passed away. However, my hat does goes off to you for recursing animals... that is just great. Good Job!!! I wish that there where more people like you :-). I read your comments on racism...I think you used it out of context here is the definition but I did understand what you were thinking about. rac·ism (rszm)n. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. Discrimination or prejudice based on race. By the way Craig, I LOVE a great debate and I can see you do too! (LOL) I hope, you are not sour with me...you must understand that "Not All Great Minds Think Alike." This is what makes us unique. This, I am sure we can both agree upon. Cannot wait to chat with you again. Rashaan I found this comment to be very interesting indeed. No, I would have to disagree with you on that my friend. I am Vegan mind, body, and soul. Craig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Rashaan, You chat with vegans yet you act like an omnivore or non Vegan. if you are keeping Rabbits and guinea pigs and they were not rescued animals, then I would say you do not understand what it is to be Vegan. (if they are rescued then hats off to you) Compassion compassion compassion ..we rescued both our dogs from the dog pound. if ... all breeders stopped breeding dogs and cats tomorrow and there were no strays then I would never keep a dog or cat. we do some rescue work with wild animals in our area the main goal is to rehabilitate not to captivate. our dogs are victims of this world and mans intervention they would not be here if it wasn't for us. so to justify additional Killing in order to feed them goes against everything Vegan. I am a Vegan for Ethical reasons first and foremost I am Vegan for Environmental & Health reasons second. what I .. eat, wear, buy , clean with, fertilize my garden with, everything I do must reflect that no animal will be harmed to produce that product. Getting back to the "pointless point" racism runs deep in the Human to animal world, kill this animal save that one, kill this colony protect that one. fill in the names or species it is all the same no matter where you look. I can provide a better meal with more of what my dogs need by feeding them the vegan diet I prepare for them than any commercial product on the market. and in doing so not harm any other animals. that to me my friend is the heart of being a Vegan, not just picking and choosing which animal will live and which will die.. Meat is Murder simple and True. now all that aside I live in Perth Western Australia, our dogs are in the Bush 5 times a week or more Kangaroos here are treated like Vermin (the battle rages) and often they get shot and left to die. when my dogs come across old bones and want to chew them (as long as it doesn't stink) I let them Anna Lise is a border collie cross about 6 years old now. she has been Vegan now for almost 4 years and without a doubt the most alert, fit and healthy dog I have ever known, her teeth are always clean no bad breath or body odour and a shinny healthy coat, she doesn't pick up the bones anymore. our other dog Romeo has been a Vegan since Jan. this year he was rescued from the pound in sad shape his rear hips looked as if he had not exercised in a year or more his fur was falling out he had 3 boils dirty teeth bad breath an odour that was foul he was farting (lol) like an old man. now 8 months later his coat is shinny, no bad breath, no body odour, only 1 of the boils is still there and it has shrunk from the size of an apricot to the size of a pea, his rear hips look normal and he rarely farts (lol). Now all of that is something to think about all the best Craig Craig, You point is pointless..."Dogs and cats in our care ARE not wild animals so there choices of food is ours not theirs." Come on Craig...I have two pets one is a Rabbit and the other is a Guinea pig and both are Vegans by nature. I would NEVER thinking of feeding them something that their don't eat. I like Meat. It's something to think about. rashaan Craig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Hiya Susan and Rashaan, we have had this debate here before Dogs and cat in our care ARE not wild animals so there choices of food is ours not theirs compassion is our choice we just share that with them my two dogs are healthy happy and FIT (too fit sometimes) energy plus etc.. so I would recommend a Vegan diet for them if you like I will forward what I feed my dogs to you it is a bit of work at first but worth it in the end all the best Craig I like your viewpoint susan...it should be the animals choice. Susan Spain <susanspain2004 wrote: Interesting... So I wonder: if cats were given vegan food side-by-side with meat-based food, would some choose to be vegan? I mean, pick that food over the meat-based stuff? Or would their instincts drive them to eat the meat, there being no "moral" choice to the killing from the perspective of the cat...rashaan laurent <rnlaurent wrote: I am vegan but I don't know if I would want my cat or dog to do the same. The same way it was my choice not to eat animal product...I would want the same for my pet. rashaanJo bb <Heartwork wrote: Yes - Veggiekat and Veggiekitten.Jo Topic for debate: vegan cats: yes or no?> Anyone's two cents welcome on this discussion!To send an email to - Mail is new and improved - Check it out! To send an email to - Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. To send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Rashaan, this was your reply to me >You point is pointless..."Dogs and cats in our care ARE not wild animals so there choices of > food is >ours not theirs." Come on Craig...I have two pets one is a Rabbit and the >other is a Guinea pig and > both are Vegans by nature. >I would NEVER thinking of feeding them something that their don't eat. >I like Meat. It's something to think about. the comment at the end that I underlined and Italicised was the basis for the omnivore comment. I think there was a grammar mistake and it reads wrong, my grammar isn't perfect either. I have been in this forum for a while now and several people have taken a stance on VEGAN pets. the bottom line is as Vegans we should only have rescued animals in our care, I think most of us agree with that. feeding them...well... I will not kill an animal to save another... when I know there is another way. as for debates go bring them on I am busy with on line activism writing protest letters often love to stir up politicians and companies that need stirring. so I try to keep my comments brief and to the point. sometimes they come across a bit harsh or incomplete ... but this is only chat not the debate club lol thanx for your reply. I will comment further on the racism thing soon all the best Craig RE: Topic for debate: vegan cats: yes or no? Hi Craig, Do you really think I chat like a non Vegan simply because I said our pets that we love and care for should be giving a choice in their selection of food the same way we were giving choices. I truly do understand your passion and conviction on this issue but I remain grounded on my views in reference to choice... whether human or animal we should all have a choice in what we do and at no time should one's beliefs be force upon another. It is our job to enlighten and not preach. We must take the emotions out of the situation and think about how it would make us feel if we don't have a choice... Just something to think about. Personally, I would love to see all animals free...wouldn't that be great? Unfortunately, this is not always the case. I, myself have two pets (my children) a Rabbit and a Guinea pig and that is all. I guess, you thought I had more than that...sorry, I have just the two and they are spoiled . My Guinea Pig came from a very abusive environment and it take sometime for him to trust people again but that was OK...I had all the time in the world. My Rabbit came from a very trusted breeder and was a gift to me when my first bunny passed away. However, my hat does goes off to you for recursing animals... that is just great. Good Job!!! I wish that there where more people like you :-). I read your comments on racism...I think you used it out of context here is the definition but I did understand what you were thinking about. rac7ism (rszm)n. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. Discrimination or prejudice based on race. By the way Craig, I LOVE a great debate and I can see you do too! (LOL) I hope, you are not sour with me...you must understand that "Not All Great Minds Think Alike." This is what makes us unique. This, I am sure we can both agree upon. Cannot wait to chat with you again. Rashaan I found this comment to be very interesting indeed. No, I would have to disagree with you on that my friend. I am Vegan mind, body, and soul. Craig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Rashaan, You chat with vegans yet you act like an omnivore or non Vegan. if you are keeping Rabbits and guinea pigs and they were not rescued animals, then I would say you do not understand what it is to be Vegan. (if they are rescued then hats off to you) Compassion compassion compassion ..we rescued both our dogs from the dog pound. if ... all breeders stopped breeding dogs and cats tomorrow and there were no strays then I would never keep a dog or cat. we do some rescue work with wild animals in our area the main goal is to rehabilitate not to captivate. our dogs are victims of this world and mans intervention they would not be here if it wasn't for us. so to justify additional Killing in order to feed them goes against everything Vegan. I am a Vegan for Ethical reasons first and foremost I am Vegan for Environmental & Health reasons second. what I .. eat, wear, buy , clean with, fertilize my garden with, everything I do must reflect that no animal will be harmed to produce that product. Getting back to the "pointless point" racism runs deep in the Human to animal world, kill this animal save that one, kill this colony protect that one. fill in the names or species it is all the same no matter where you look. I can provide a better meal with more of what my dogs need by feeding them the vegan diet I prepare for them than any commercial product on the market. and in doing so not harm any other animals. that to me my friend is the heart of being a Vegan, not just picking and choosing which animal will live and which will die.. Meat is Murder simple and True. now all that aside I live in Perth Western Australia, our dogs are in the Bush 5 times a week or more Kangaroos here are treated like Vermin (the battle rages) and often they get shot and left to die. when my dogs come across old bones and want to chew them (as long as it doesn't stink) I let them Anna Lise is a border collie cross about 6 years old now. she has been Vegan now for almost 4 years and without a doubt the most alert, fit and healthy dog I have ever known, her teeth are always clean no bad breath or body odour and a shinny healthy coat, she doesn't pick up the bones anymore. our other dog Romeo has been a Vegan since Jan. this year he was rescued from the pound in sad shape his rear hips looked as if he had not exercised in a year or more his fur was falling out he had 3 boils dirty teeth bad breath an odour that was foul he was farting (lol) like an old man. now 8 months later his coat is shinny, no bad breath, no body odour, only 1 of the boils is still there and it has shrunk from the size of an apricot to the size of a pea, his rear hips look normal and he rarely farts (lol). Now all of that is something to think about all the best Craig Craig, You point is pointless..."Dogs and cats in our care ARE not wild animals so there choices of food is ours not theirs." Come on Craig...I have two pets one is a Rabbit and the other is a Guinea pig and both are Vegans by nature. I would NEVER thinking of feeding them something that their don't eat. I like Meat. It's something to think about. rashaan Craig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Hiya Susan and Rashaan, we have had this debate here before Dogs and cat in our care ARE not wild animals so there choices of food is ours not theirs compassion is our choice we just share that with them my two dogs are healthy happy and FIT (too fit sometimes) energy plus etc.. so I would recommend a Vegan diet for them if you like I will forward what I feed my dogs to you it is a bit of work at first but worth it in the end all the best Craig I like your viewpoint susan...it should be the animals choice. Susan Spain <susanspain2004 wrote: Interesting... So I wonder: if cats were given vegan food side-by-side with meat-based food, would some choose to be vegan? I mean, pick that food over the meat-based stuff? Or would their instincts drive them to eat the meat, there being no "moral" choice to the killing from the perspective of the cat...rashaan laurent <rnlaurent wrote: I am vegan but I don't know if I would want my cat or dog to do the same. The same way it was my choice not to eat animal product...I would want the same for my pet. rashaanJo bb <Heartwork wrote: Yes - Veggiekat and Veggiekitten.Jo Topic for debate: vegan cats: yes or no?> Anyone's two cents welcome on this discussion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Hi Craig, You are right. It was an mistake. (LOL) Boy, that would have freaked me out too! take care RashaanCraig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Rashaan, this was your reply to me >You point is pointless..."Dogs and cats in our care ARE not wild animals so there choices of > food is >ours not theirs." Come on Craig...I have two pets one is a Rabbit and the >other is a Guinea pig and > both are Vegans by nature. >I would NEVER thinking of feeding them something that their don't eat. >I like Meat. It's something to think about. the comment at the end that I underlined and Italicised was the basis for the omnivore comment. I think there was a grammar mistake and it reads wrong, my grammar isn't perfect either. I have been in this forum for a while now and several people have taken a stance on VEGAN pets. the bottom line is as Vegans we should only have rescued animals in our care, I think most of us agree with that. feeding them...well... I will not kill an animal to save another... when I know there is another way. as for debates go bring them on I am busy with on line activism writing protest letters often love to stir up politicians and companies that need stirring. so I try to keep my comments brief and to the point. sometimes they come across a bit harsh or incomplete ... but this is only chat not the debate club lol thanx for your reply. I will comment further on the racism thing soon all the best Craig RE: Topic for debate: vegan cats: yes or no? Hi Craig, Do you really think I chat like a non Vegan simply because I said our pets that we love and care for should be giving a choice in their selection of food the same way we were giving choices. I truly do understand your passion and conviction on this issue but I remain grounded on my views in reference to choice... whether human or animal we should all have a choice in what we do and at no time should one's beliefs be force upon another. It is our job to enlighten and not preach. We must take the emotions out of the situation and think about how it would make us feel if we don't have a choice... Just something to think about. Personally, I would love to see all animals free...wouldn't that be great? Unfortunately, this is not always the case. I, myself have two pets (my children) a Rabbit and a Guinea pig and that is all. I guess, you thought I had more than that...sorry, I have just the two and they are spoiled . My Guinea Pig came from a very abusive environment and it take sometime for him to trust people again but that was OK...I had all the time in the world. My Rabbit came from a very trusted breeder and was a gift to me when my first bunny passed away. However, my hat does goes off to you for recursing animals... that is just great. Good Job!!! I wish that there where more people like you :-). I read your comments on racism...I think you used it out of context here is the definition but I did understand what you were thinking about. rac7ism (rszm)n. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. Discrimination or prejudice based on race. By the way Craig, I LOVE a great debate and I can see you do too! (LOL) I hope, you are not sour with me...you must understand that "Not All Great Minds Think Alike." This is what makes us unique. This, I am sure we can both agree upon. Cannot wait to chat with you again. Rashaan I found this comment to be very interesting indeed. No, I would have to disagree with you on that my friend. I am Vegan mind, body, and soul. Craig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Rashaan, You chat with vegans yet you act like an omnivore or non Vegan. if you are keeping Rabbits and guinea pigs and they were not rescued animals, then I would say you do not understand what it is to be Vegan. (if they are rescued then hats off to you) Compassion compassion compassion ..we rescued both our dogs from the dog pound. if ... all breeders stopped breeding dogs and cats tomorrow and there were no strays then I would never keep a dog or cat. we do some rescue work with wild animals in our area the main goal is to rehabilitate not to captivate. our dogs are victims of this world and mans intervention they would not be here if it wasn't for us. so to justify additional Killing in order to feed them goes against everything Vegan. I am a Vegan for Ethical reasons first and foremost I am Vegan for Environmental & Health reasons second. what I .. eat, wear, buy , clean with, fertilize my garden with, everything I do must reflect that no animal will be harmed to produce that product. Getting back to the "pointless point" racism runs deep in the Human to animal world, kill this animal save that one, kill this colony protect that one. fill in the names or species it is all the same no matter where you look. I can provide a better meal with more of what my dogs need by feeding them the vegan diet I prepare for them than any commercial product on the market. and in doing so not harm any other animals. that to me my friend is the heart of being a Vegan, not just picking and choosing which animal will live and which will die.. Meat is Murder simple and True. now all that aside I live in Perth Western Australia, our dogs are in the Bush 5 times a week or more Kangaroos here are treated like Vermin (the battle rages) and often they get shot and left to die. when my dogs come across old bones and want to chew them (as long as it doesn't stink) I let them Anna Lise is a border collie cross about 6 years old now. she has been Vegan now for almost 4 years and without a doubt the most alert, fit and healthy dog I have ever known, her teeth are always clean no bad breath or body odour and a shinny healthy coat, she doesn't pick up the bones anymore. our other dog Romeo has been a Vegan since Jan. this year he was rescued from the pound in sad shape his rear hips looked as if he had not exercised in a year or more his fur was falling out he had 3 boils dirty teeth bad breath an odour that was foul he was farting (lol) like an old man. now 8 months later his coat is shinny, no bad breath, no body odour, only 1 of the boils is still there and it has shrunk from the size of an apricot to the size of a pea, his rear hips look normal and he rarely farts (lol). Now all of that is something to think about all the best Craig Craig, You point is pointless..."Dogs and cats in our care ARE not wild animals so there choices of food is ours not theirs." Come on Craig...I have two pets one is a Rabbit and the other is a Guinea pig and both are Vegans by nature. I would NEVER thinking of feeding them something that their don't eat. I like Meat. It's something to think about. rashaan Craig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Hiya Susan and Rashaan, we have had this debate here before Dogs and cat in our care ARE not wild animals so there choices of food is ours not theirs compassion is our choice we just share that with them my two dogs are healthy happy and FIT (too fit sometimes) energy plus etc.. so I would recommend a Vegan diet for them if you like I will forward what I feed my dogs to you it is a bit of work at first but worth it in the end all the best Craig I like your viewpoint susan...it should be the animals choice. Susan Spain <susanspain2004 wrote: Interesting... So I wonder: if cats were given vegan food side-by-side with meat-based food, would some choose to be vegan? I mean, pick that food over the meat-based stuff? Or would their instincts drive them to eat the meat, there being no "moral" choice to the killing from the perspective of the cat...rashaan laurent <rnlaurent wrote: I am vegan but I don't know if I would want my cat or dog to do the same. The same way it was my choice not to eat animal product...I would want the same for my pet. rashaanJo bb <Heartwork wrote: Yes - Veggiekat and Veggiekitten.Jo Topic for debate: vegan cats: yes or no?> Anyone's two cents welcome on this discussion! To send an email to - vote. - Register online to vote today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Craig, I think that the ‘I will not kill one animal to save another’ explains it perfectly. No vegan should ‘keep’ animals that have been bred for the pet industry as it is cruel, and therefore, any animal I have or will own have been passed on from bad homes, labs, and soon the fox hunting fraternity will be chucking their animals away so we will have to rally round to prevent unnecessary slaughter. thanks Andrew Barnes Craig Dearth [cd39] 06 October 2004 00:11 RE: Topic for debate: vegan cats: yes or no? Rashaan, this was your reply to me >You point is pointless... " Dogs and cats in our care ARE not wild animals so there choices of > food is >ours not theirs. " Come on Craig...I have two pets one is a Rabbit and the >other is a Guinea pig and > both are Vegans by nature. >I would NEVER thinking of feeding them something that their don't eat. >I like Meat. It's something to think about. the comment at the end that I underlined and Italicised was the basis for the omnivore comment. I think there was a grammar mistake and it reads wrong, my grammar isn't perfect either. I have been in this forum for a while now and several people have taken a stance on VEGAN pets. the bottom line is as Vegans we should only have rescued animals in our care, I think most of us agree with that. feeding them...well... I will not kill an animal to save another... when I know there is another way. as for debates go bring them on I am busy with on line activism writing protest letters often love to stir up politicians and companies that need stirring. so I try to keep my comments brief and to the point. sometimes they come across a bit harsh or incomplete ... but this is only chat not the debate club lol thanx for your reply. I will comment further on the racism thing soon all the best Craig RE: Topic for debate: vegan cats: yes or no? Hi Craig, Do you really think I chat like a non Vegan simply because I said our pets that we love and care for should be giving a choice in their selection of food the same way we were giving choices. I truly do understand your passion and conviction on this issue but I remain grounded on my views in reference to choice... whether human or animal we should all have a choice in what we do and at no time should one's beliefs be force upon another. It is our job to enlighten and not preach. We must take the emotions out of the situation and think about how it would make us feel if we don't have a choice... Just something to think about. Personally, I would love to see all animals free...wouldn't that be great? Unfortunately, this is not always the case. I, myself have two pets (my children) a Rabbit and a Guinea pig and that is all. I guess, you thought I had more than that...sorry, I have just the two and they are spoiled . My Guinea Pig came from a very abusive environment and it take sometime for him to trust people again but that was OK...I had all the time in the world. My Rabbit came from a very trusted breeder and was a gift to me when my first bunny passed away. However, my hat does goes off to you for recursing animals... that is just great. Good Job!!! I wish that there where more people like you :-). I read your comments on racism...I think you used it out of context here is the definition but I did understand what you were thinking about. rac7ism (rszm) n. 1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race. By the way Craig, I LOVE a great debate and I can see you do too! (LOL) I hope, you are not sour with me...you must understand that " Not All Great Minds Think Alike. " This is what makes us unique. This, I am sure we can both agree upon. Cannot wait to chat with you again. Rashaan I found this comment to be very interesting indeed. No, I would have to disagree with you on that my friend. I am Vegan mind, body, and soul. Craig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Rashaan, You chat with vegans yet you act like an omnivore or non Vegan. if you are keeping Rabbits and guinea pigs and they were not rescued animals, then I would say you do not understand what it is to be Vegan. (if they are rescued then hats off to you) Compassion compassion compassion ..we rescued both our dogs from the dog pound. if ... all breeders stopped breeding dogs and cats tomorrow and there were no strays then I would never keep a dog or cat. we do some rescue work with wild animals in our area the main goal is to rehabilitate not to captivate. our dogs are victims of this world and mans intervention they would not be here if it wasn't for us. so to justify additional Killing in order to feed them goes against everything Vegan. I am a Vegan for Ethical reasons first and foremost I am Vegan for Environmental & Health reasons second. what I ... eat, wear, buy , clean with, fertilize my garden with, everything I do must reflect that no animal will be harmed to produce that product. Getting back to the " pointless point " racism runs deep in the Human to animal world, kill this animal save that one, kill this colony protect that one. fill in the names or species it is all the same no matter where you look. I can provide a better meal with more of what my dogs need by feeding them the vegan diet I prepare for them than any commercial product on the market. and in doing so not harm any other animals. that to me my friend is the heart of being a Vegan, not just picking and choosing which animal will live and which will die.. Meat is Murder simple and True. now all that aside I live in Perth Western Australia, our dogs are in the Bush 5 times a week or more Kangaroos here are treated like Vermin (the battle rages) and often they get shot and left to die. when my dogs come across old bones and want to chew them (as long as it doesn't stink) I let them Anna Lise is a border collie cross about 6 years old now. she has been Vegan now for almost 4 years and without a doubt the most alert, fit and healthy dog I have ever known, her teeth are always clean no bad breath or body odour and a shinny healthy coat, she doesn't pick up the bones anymore. our other dog Romeo has been a Vegan since Jan. this year he was rescued from the pound in sad shape his rear hips looked as if he had not exercised in a year or more his fur was falling out he had 3 boils dirty teeth bad breath an odour that was foul he was farting (lol) like an old man. now 8 months later his coat is shinny, no bad breath, no body odour, only 1 of the boils is still there and it has shrunk from the size of an apricot to the size of a pea, his rear hips look normal and he rarely farts (lol). Now all of that is something to think about all the best Craig Craig, You point is pointless... " Dogs and cats in our care ARE not wild animals so there choices of food is ours not theirs. " Come on Craig...I have two pets one is a Rabbit and the other is a Guinea pig and both are Vegans by nature. I would NEVER thinking of feeding them something that their don't eat. I like Meat. It's something to think about. rashaan Craig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Hiya Susan and Rashaan, we have had this debate here before Dogs and cat in our care ARE not wild animals so there choices of food is ours not theirs compassion is our choice we just share that with them my two dogs are healthy happy and FIT (too fit sometimes) energy plus etc.. so I would recommend a Vegan diet for them if you like I will forward what I feed my dogs to you it is a bit of work at first but worth it in the end all the best Craig I like your viewpoint susan...it should be the animals choice. Susan Spain <susanspain2004 wrote: Interesting... So I wonder: if cats were given vegan food side-by-side with meat-based food, would some choose to be vegan? I mean, pick that food over the meat-based stuff? Or would their instincts drive them to eat the meat, there being no " moral " choice to the killing from the perspective of the cat... rashaan laurent <rnlaurent wrote: I am vegan but I don't know if I would want my cat or dog to do the same. The same way it was my choice not to eat animal product...I would want the same for my pet. rashaan Jo bb <Heartwork wrote: Yes - Veggiekat and Veggiekitten. Jo Topic for debate: vegan cats: yes or no? > Anyone's two cents welcome on this discussion! To send an email to - ______________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. 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Guest guest Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Do you have Cats?Jo bb <Heartwork wrote: Hi I presume you mean that pets should be offered both meat and vegan so that they can choose. You cannot really follow through this concept though because if they are to have yhorough freedom to choose then you must offer them a serving of every food in the world! - just so they have a proper choice. My understanding of cats is that if they don't like what you are feeding them they attach themselves to another home where they like the menu better. Jo Do you really think I chat like a non Vegan simply because I said our pets that we love and care for should be giving a choice in their selection of food the same way we were giving choices. I truly do understand your passion and conviction on this issue but I remain grounded on my views in reference to choice... whether human or animal we should all have a choice in what we do and at no time should one's beliefs be force upon another. It is our job to enlighten and not preach. We must take the emotions out of the situation and think about how it would make us feel if we don't have a choice... Just something to think about. Personally, I would love to see all animals free...wouldn't that be great? Unfortunately, this is not always the case. I, myself have two pets (my children) a Rabbit and a Guinea pig and that is all. I guess, you thought I had more than that...sorry, I have just the two and they are spoiled . My Guinea Pig came from a very abusive environment and it take sometime for him to trust people again but that was OK...I had all the time in the world. My Rabbit came from a very trusted breeder and was a gift to me when my first bunny passed away. However, my hat does goes off to you for recursing animals... that is just great. Good Job!!! I wish that there where more people like you :-). I read your comments on racism...I think you used it out of context here is the definition but I did understand what you were thinking about. rac·ism (rszm)n. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. Discrimination or prejudice based on race. By the way Craig, I LOVE a great debate and I can see you do too! (LOL) I hope, you are not sour with me...you must understand that "Not All Great Minds Think Alike." This is what makes us unique. This, I am sure we can both agree upon. Cannot wait to chat with you again. Rashaan I found this comment to be very interesting indeed. No, I would have to disagree with you on that my friend. I am Vegan mind, body, and soul. Craig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Rashaan, You chat with vegans yet you act like an omnivore or non Vegan. if you are keeping Rabbits and guinea pigs and they were not rescued animals, then I would say you do not understand what it is to be Vegan. (if they are rescued then hats off to you) Compassion compassion compassion ..we rescued both our dogs from the dog pound. if ... all breeders stopped breeding dogs and cats tomorrow and there were no strays then I would never keep a dog or cat. we do some rescue work with wild animals in our area the main goal is to rehabilitate not to captivate. our dogs are victims of this world and mans intervention they would not be here if it wasn't for us. so to justify additional Killing in order to feed them goes against everything Vegan. I am a Vegan for Ethical reasons first and foremost I am Vegan for Environmental & Health reasons second. what I .. eat, wear, buy , clean with, fertilize my garden with, everything I do must reflect that no animal will be harmed to produce that product. Getting back to the "pointless point" racism runs deep in the Human to animal world, kill this animal save that one, kill this colony protect that one. fill in the names or species it is all the same no matter where you look. I can provide a better meal with more of what my dogs need by feeding them the vegan diet I prepare for them than any commercial product on the market. and in doing so not harm any other animals. that to me my friend is the heart of being a Vegan, not just picking and choosing which animal will live and which will die.. Meat is Murder simple and True. now all that aside I live in Perth Western Australia, our dogs are in the Bush 5 times a week or more Kangaroos here are treated like Vermin (the battle rages) and often they get shot and left to die. when my dogs come across old bones and want to chew them (as long as it doesn't stink) I let them Anna Lise is a border collie cross about 6 years old now. she has been Vegan now for almost 4 years and without a doubt the most alert, fit and healthy dog I have ever known, her teeth are always clean no bad breath or body odour and a shinny healthy coat, she doesn't pick up the bones anymore. our other dog Romeo has been a Vegan since Jan. this year he was rescued from the pound in sad shape his rear hips looked as if he had not exercised in a year or more his fur was falling out he had 3 boils dirty teeth bad breath an odour that was foul he was farting (lol) like an old man. now 8 months later his coat is shinny, no bad breath, no body odour, only 1 of the boils is still there and it has shrunk from the size of an apricot to the size of a pea, his rear hips look normal and he rarely farts (lol). Now all of that is something to think about all the best Craig Craig, You point is pointless..."Dogs and cats in our care ARE not wild animals so there choices of food is ours not theirs." Come on Craig...I have two pets one is a Rabbit and the other is a Guinea pig and both are Vegans by nature. I would NEVER thinking of feeding them something that their don't eat. I like Meat. It's something to think about. rashaan Craig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Hiya Susan and Rashaan, we have had this debate here before Dogs and cat in our care ARE not wild animals so there choices of food is ours not theirs compassion is our choice we just share that with them my two dogs are healthy happy and FIT (too fit sometimes) energy plus etc.. so I would recommend a Vegan diet for them if you like I will forward what I feed my dogs to you it is a bit of work at first but worth it in the end all the best Craig I like your viewpoint susan...it should be the animals choice. Susan Spain <susanspain2004 wrote: Interesting... So I wonder: if cats were given vegan food side-by-side with meat-based food, would some choose to be vegan? I mean, pick that food over the meat-based stuff? Or would their instincts drive them to eat the meat, there being no "moral" choice to the killing from the perspective of the cat...rashaan laurent <rnlaurent wrote: I am vegan but I don't know if I would want my cat or dog to do the same. The same way it was my choice not to eat animal product...I would want the same for my pet. rashaanJo bb <Heartwork wrote: Yes - Veggiekat and Veggiekitten.Jo Topic for debate: vegan cats: yes or no?> Anyone's two cents welcome on this discussion!To send an email to - Mail is new and improved - Check it out! To send an email to - Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. To send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to - Take Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 only the ones that dig up her garden... hey jo..where has peter been??? fraggle rashaan laurent Oct 6, 2004 12:54 AM Re: Topic for debate: vegan cats: yes or no? Do you have Cats?Jo bb <Heartwork wrote: Hi I presume you mean that pets should be offered both meat and vegan so that they can choose. You cannot really follow through this concept though because if they are to have yhorough freedom to choose then you must offer them a serving of every food in the world! - just so they have a proper choice. My understanding of cats is that if they don't like what you are feeding them they attach themselves to another home where they like the menu better. Jo Do you really think I chat like a non Vegan simply because I said our pets that we love and care for should be giving a choice in their selection of food the same way we were giving choices. I truly do understand your passion and conviction on this issue but I remain grounded on my views in reference to choice... whether human or animal we should all have a choice in what we do and at no time should one's beliefs be force upon another. It is our job to enlighten and not preach. We must take the emotions out of the situation and think about how it would make us feel if we don't have a choice... Just something to think about. Personally, I would love to see all animals free...wouldn't that be great? Unfortunately, this is not always the case. I, myself have two pets (my children) a Rabbit and a Guinea pig and that is all. I guess, you thought I had more than that...sorry, I have just the two and they are spoiled . My Guinea Pig came from a very abusive environment and it take sometime for him to trust people again but that was OK...I had all the time in the world. My Rabbit came from a very trusted breeder and was a gift to me when my first bunny passed away. However, my hat does goes off to you for recursing animals... that is just great. Good Job!!! I wish that there where more people like you :-). I read your comments on racism...I think you used it out of context here is the definition but I did understand what you were thinking about. rac·ism (rszm)n. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. Discrimination or prejudice based on race. By the way Craig, I LOVE a great debate and I can see you do too! (LOL) I hope, you are not sour with me...you must understand that "Not All Great Minds Think Alike." This is what makes us unique. This, I am sure we can both agree upon. Cannot wait to chat with you again. Rashaan I found this comment to be very interesting indeed. No, I would have to disagree with you on that my friend. I am Vegan mind, body, and soul. Craig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Rashaan, You chat with vegans yet you act like an omnivore or non Vegan. if you are keeping Rabbits and guinea pigs and they were not rescued animals, then I would say you do not understand what it is to be Vegan. (if they are rescued then hats off to you) Compassion compassion compassion ..we rescued both our dogs from the dog pound. if ... all breeders stopped breeding dogs and cats tomorrow and there were no strays then I would never keep a dog or cat. we do some rescue work with wild animals in our area the main goal is to rehabilitate not to captivate. our dogs are victims of this world and mans intervention they would not be here if it wasn't for us. so to justify additional Killing in order to feed them goes against everything Vegan. I am a Vegan for Ethical reasons first and foremost I am Vegan for Environmental & Health reasons second. what I .. eat, wear, buy , clean with, fertilize my garden with, everything I do must reflect that no animal will be harmed to produce that product. Getting back to the "pointless point" racism runs deep in the Human to animal world, kill this animal save that one, kill this colony protect that one. fill in the names or species it is all the same no matter where you look. I can provide a better meal with more of what my dogs need by feeding them the vegan diet I prepare for them than any commercial product on the market. and in doing so not harm any other animals. that to me my friend is the heart of being a Vegan, not just picking and choosing which animal will live and which will die.. Meat is Murder simple and True. now all that aside I live in Perth Western Australia, our dogs are in the Bush 5 times a week or more Kangaroos here are treated like Vermin (the battle rages) and often they get shot and left to die. when my dogs come across old bones and want to chew them (as long as it doesn't stink) I let them Anna Lise is a border collie cross about 6 years old now. she has been Vegan now for almost 4 years and without a doubt the most alert, fit and healthy dog I have ever known, her teeth are always clean no bad breath or body odour and a shinny healthy coat, she doesn't pick up the bones anymore. our other dog Romeo has been a Vegan since Jan. this year he was rescued from the pound in sad shape his rear hips looked as if he had not exercised in a year or more his fur was falling out he had 3 boils dirty teeth bad breath an odour that was foul he was farting (lol) like an old man. now 8 months later his coat is shinny, no bad breath, no body odour, only 1 of the boils is still there and it has shrunk from the size of an apricot to the size of a pea, his rear hips look normal and he rarely farts (lol). Now all of that is something to think about all the best Craig Craig, You point is pointless..."Dogs and cats in our care ARE not wild animals so there choices of food is ours not theirs." Come on Craig...I have two pets one is a Rabbit and the other is a Guinea pig and both are Vegans by nature. I would NEVER thinking of feeding them something that their don't eat. I like Meat. It's something to think about. rashaan Craig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Hiya Susan and Rashaan, we have had this debate here before Dogs and cat in our care ARE not wild animals so there choices of food is ours not theirs compassion is our choice we just share that with them my two dogs are healthy happy and FIT (too fit sometimes) energy plus etc.. so I would recommend a Vegan diet for them if you like I will forward what I feed my dogs to you it is a bit of work at first but worth it in the end all the best Craig I like your viewpoint susan...it should be the animals choice. Susan Spain <susanspain2004 wrote: Interesting... So I wonder: if cats were given vegan food side-by-side with meat-based food, would some choose to be vegan? I mean, pick that food over the meat-based stuff? Or would their instincts drive them to eat the meat, there being no "moral" choice to the killing from the perspective of the cat...rashaan laurent <rnlaurent wrote: I am vegan but I don't know if I would want my cat or dog to do the same. The same way it was my choice not to eat animal product...I would want the same for my pet. rashaanJo bb <Heartwork wrote: Yes - Veggiekat and Veggiekitten.Jo Topic for debate: vegan cats: yes or no?> Anyone's two cents welcome on this discussion!To send an email to - Mail is new and improved - Check it out! To send an email to - Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. To send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to - Take Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Hi Fraggle > hey jo..where has peter been??? Dammit - I thought we'd found all those hidden cameras :-) Seriously, though... I'm still around, but I've just moved and started an MA course, and that, along with all the social activity going on at university has left me a little short of time for e-mailing... I'm still reading (as you might have guessed!), and will probably continue to post the odd one-liner here and there :-) BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Fraggle me darlin' Hope you ( & the list owners) don't mind me mentioning this, & I know you've got pc probs n all but... have you forgotten how to snip..? Was thinking of mentioning it the msg before this one, then got this one and it's even l-o-n-g-e-r! fraggle [EBbrewpunx] only the ones that dig up her garden... hey jo..where has peter been??? fraggle --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.745 / Virus Database: 497 - Release 27/08/2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 gives you something to read... Viv Carbines Oct 6, 2004 2:59 PM RE: Topic for debate: vegan cats: yes or no? Fraggle me darlin' Hope you ( & the list owners) don't mind me mentioning this, & I know you've got pc probs n all but... have you forgotten how to snip..? Was thinking of mentioning it the msg before this one, then got this one and it's even l-o-n-g-e-r! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2004 Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 No - only my neighbours. Jo Do you have Cats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2004 Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 Hi Fraggle I couldn't get my email to work yesterday - so couldn't answer earlier - I see Peter has answered now. BBJo only the ones that dig up her garden... hey jo..where has peter been??? fraggle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 Craig, Late picking up e-mails again, so ignore if you like......Sounds like you were having a bad day? You sound upset and dare I say it very judgemental. We are talking about peoples opinions and choices on how they choose to live. Each to his own, live and let live ( no pun intended). I have two rescued cats ( may end up with three, unless I can find a good home !). I feed them the closest thing to what their dietry history suggests, albeit dead animal parts in a can , as opposed to squirming mices,voles and the odd bird. I do not like feeding them this, but I feel that there is little alternative without imposing my views/lifestyle and will upon them. My wife eats animals also, I do not stop her buying and preparing her food however gross it seems to me, I still pay for it ( in more ways then one ).And yes, I do consider myself a vegan, although no doubt others may not. I no more own my wife than I do my cats, at the end of the day its on my conscience and I have to deal with it. Please don`t take any of this as a personal affront, it is purely opinion. I admire your stance and the good work that you do in Oz. The Valley Vegan....Craig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Rashaan, You chat with vegans yet you act like an omnivore or non Vegan. if you are keeping Rabbits and guinea pigs and they were not rescued animals, then I would say you do not understand what it is to be Vegan. (if they are rescued then hats off to you) Compassion compassion compassion ..we rescued both our dogs from the dog pound. if ... all breeders stopped breeding dogs and cats tomorrow and there were no strays then I would never keep a dog or cat. we do some rescue work with wild animals in our area the main goal is to rehabilitate not to captivate. our dogs are victims of this world and mans intervention they would not be here if it wasn't for us. so to justify additional Killing in order to feed them goes against everything Vegan. I am a Vegan for Ethical reasons first and foremost I am Vegan for Environmental & Health reasons second. what I .. eat, wear, buy , clean with, fertilize my garden with, everything I do must reflect that no animal will be harmed to produce that product. Getting back to the "pointless point" racism runs deep in the Human to animal world, kill this animal save that one, kill this colony protect that one. fill in the names or species it is all the same no matter where you look. I can provide a better meal with more of what my dogs need by feeding them the vegan diet I prepare for them than any commercial product on the market. and in doing so not harm any other animals. that to me my friend is the heart of being a Vegan, not just picking and choosing which animal will live and which will die.. Meat is Murder simple and True. now all that aside I live in Perth Western Australia, our dogs are in the Bush 5 times a week or more Kangaroos here are treated like Vermin (the battle rages) and often they get shot and left to die. when my dogs come across old bones and want to chew them (as long as it doesn't stink) I let them Anna Lise is a border collie cross about 6 years old now. she has been Vegan now for almost 4 years and without a doubt the most alert, fit and healthy dog I have ever known, her teeth are always clean no bad breath or body odour and a shinny healthy coat, she doesn't pick up the bones anymore. our other dog Romeo has been a Vegan since Jan. this year he was rescued from the pound in sad shape his rear hips looked as if he had not exercised in a year or more his fur was falling out he had 3 boils dirty teeth bad breath an odour that was foul he was farting (lol) like an old man. now 8 months later his coat is shinny, no bad breath, no body odour, only 1 of the boils is still there and it has shrunk from the size of an apricot to the size of a pea, his rear hips look normal and he rarely farts (lol). Now all of that is something to think about all the best Craig Craig, You point is pointless..."Dogs and cats in our care ARE not wild animals so there choices of food is ours not theirs." Come on Craig...I have two pets one is a Rabbit and the other is a Guinea pig and both are Vegans by nature. I would NEVER thinking of feeding them something that their don't eat. I like Meat. It's something to think about. rashaan Craig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Hiya Susan and Rashaan, we have had this debate here before Dogs and cat in our care ARE not wild animals so there choices of food is ours not theirs compassion is our choice we just share that with them my two dogs are healthy happy and FIT (too fit sometimes) energy plus etc.. so I would recommend a Vegan diet for them if you like I will forward what I feed my dogs to you it is a bit of work at first but worth it in the end all the best Craig I like your viewpoint susan...it should be the animals choice. Susan Spain <susanspain2004 wrote: Interesting... So I wonder: if cats were given vegan food side-by-side with meat-based food, would some choose to be vegan? I mean, pick that food over the meat-based stuff? Or would their instincts drive them to eat the meat, there being no "moral" choice to the killing from the perspective of the cat...rashaan laurent <rnlaurent wrote: I am vegan but I don't know if I would want my cat or dog to do the same. The same way it was my choice not to eat animal product...I would want the same for my pet. rashaanJo bb <Heartwork wrote: Yes - Veggiekat and Veggiekitten.Jo Topic for debate: vegan cats: yes or no?> Anyone's two cents welcome on this discussion!To send an email to - Mail is new and improved - Check it out! To send an email to - Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. To send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to - Peter H ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 Hi Jo, I agree , where can I get such a can of worms? I stopped buying Iams when this all came to light. Still have one kitten free to a good home? Anyone want to make its first taste of solids a vegan one? The Valley Vegan....Jo bb <Heartwork wrote: Hi Peter As has been pointed out - cats would not normally eat cows, lambs, rabbits, fish and chickens, which is what is usually fed to them from tins. By my experience of rescuing small animals from my neighbours cats, they would normally eat small birds, mice, voles, frogs, toads, worms and beetles, and the odd spider. The squirrels and bigger birds do not seem to have much trouble fending off cats. So - maybe, if the cat is to have a 'natural' diet, tinned cat foods should contain beetles and worms etc. preferably uncooked! Another point is that if people use Iams food there are serious issues with the company over their testing on dogs, cats etc. BBJo - peter hurd Saturday, October 02, 2004 2:24 PM RE: Topic for debate: vegan cats: yes or no? As I have said before on this topic, I will not force my beliefs on anyone or any other species. I know dogs are basically omnivores, but cats are another matter and need Taurine in their diet. I know that there are vegan cat foods with manufactured Taurine in them, but I am not convinced that the animals like them that much, or that they should be forced to change their natural diet just because of my belief system. Feline fine, The Valley Vegan... P.S. The three week kitten`s doin fine, shame the other two "dissapeared", but now that the mother has brought it to my house ( they are living in my garage at present ), I shall make sure that they are only disturbed for food until the mother re-locates or decides to adopt us!. Once the kitten is old enough to stand on its own four paws, then I will have to make a few more decisions....Craig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Hiya Susan and Rashaan, we have had this debate here before Dogs and cat in our care ARE not wild animals so there choices of food is ours not theirs compassion is our choice we just share that with them my two dogs are healthy happy and FIT (too fit sometimes) energy plus etc.. so I would recommend a Vegan diet for them if you like I will forward what I feed my dogs to you it is a bit of work at first but worth it in the end all the best Craig I like your viewpoint susan...it should be the animals choice. Susan Spain <susanspain2004 wrote: Interesting... So I wonder: if cats were given vegan food side-by-side with meat-based food, would some choose to be vegan? I mean, pick that food over the meat-based stuff? Or would their instincts drive them to eat the meat, there being no "moral" choice to the killing from the perspective of the cat...rashaan laurent <rnlaurent wrote: I am vegan but I don't know if I would want my cat or dog to do the same. The same way it was my choice not to eat animal product...I would want the same for my pet. rashaanJo bb <Heartwork wrote: Yes - Veggiekat and Veggiekitten.Jo Topic for debate: vegan cats: yes or no?> Anyone's two cents welcome on this discussion!To send an email to - Mail is new and improved - Check it out! To send an email to - Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. To send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to - Peter H ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! To send an email to - To send an email to - Peter H ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 Hiya Pete, point taken BUT... the judgemental part came from the comment.. I would NEVER thinking of feeding them something that their don't eat. I like Meat. It's something to think about. so as I explained to Rashaan it was the "I like meat thing that I was commenting on. as for feeding animals I stand firm all the best Craig peter hurd [swpgh01]Saturday, October 09, 2004 10:00 PM Subject: RE: Topic for debate: vegan cats: yes or no? Craig, Late picking up e-mails again, so ignore if you like......Sounds like you were having a bad day? You sound upset and dare I say it very judgemental. We are talking about peoples opinions and choices on how they choose to live. Each to his own, live and let live ( no pun intended). I have two rescued cats ( may end up with three, unless I can find a good home !). I feed them the closest thing to what their dietry history suggests, albeit dead animal parts in a can , as opposed to squirming mices,voles and the odd bird. I do not like feeding them this, but I feel that there is little alternative without imposing my views/lifestyle and will upon them. My wife eats animals also, I do not stop her buying and preparing her food however gross it seems to me, I still pay for it ( in more ways then one ).And yes, I do consider myself a vegan, although no doubt others may not. I no more own my wife than I do my cats, at the end of the day its on my conscience and I have to deal with it. Please don`t take any of this as a personal affront, it is purely opinion. I admire your stance and the good work that you do in Oz. The Valley Vegan....Craig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Rashaan, You chat with vegans yet you act like an omnivore or non Vegan. if you are keeping Rabbits and guinea pigs and they were not rescued animals, then I would say you do not understand what it is to be Vegan. (if they are rescued then hats off to you) Compassion compassion compassion ..we rescued both our dogs from the dog pound. if ... all breeders stopped breeding dogs and cats tomorrow and there were no strays then I would never keep a dog or cat. we do some rescue work with wild animals in our area the main goal is to rehabilitate not to captivate. our dogs are victims of this world and mans intervention they would not be here if it wasn't for us. so to justify additional Killing in order to feed them goes against everything Vegan. I am a Vegan for Ethical reasons first and foremost I am Vegan for Environmental & Health reasons second. what I .. eat, wear, buy , clean with, fertilize my garden with, everything I do must reflect that no animal will be harmed to produce that product. Getting back to the "pointless point" racism runs deep in the Human to animal world, kill this animal save that one, kill this colony protect that one. fill in the names or species it is all the same no matter where you look. I can provide a better meal with more of what my dogs need by feeding them the vegan diet I prepare for them than any commercial product on the market. and in doing so not harm any other animals. that to me my friend is the heart of being a Vegan, not just picking and choosing which animal will live and which will die.. Meat is Murder simple and True. now all that aside I live in Perth Western Australia, our dogs are in the Bush 5 times a week or more Kangaroos here are treated like Vermin (the battle rages) and often they get shot and left to die. when my dogs come across old bones and want to chew them (as long as it doesn't stink) I let them Anna Lise is a border collie cross about 6 years old now. she has been Vegan now for almost 4 years and without a doubt the most alert, fit and healthy dog I have ever known, her teeth are always clean no bad breath or body odour and a shinny healthy coat, she doesn't pick up the bones anymore. our other dog Romeo has been a Vegan since Jan. this year he was rescued from the pound in sad shape his rear hips looked as if he had not exercised in a year or more his fur was falling out he had 3 boils dirty teeth bad breath an odour that was foul he was farting (lol) like an old man. now 8 months later his coat is shinny, no bad breath, no body odour, only 1 of the boils is still there and it has shrunk from the size of an apricot to the size of a pea, his rear hips look normal and he rarely farts (lol). Now all of that is something to think about all the best Craig Craig, You point is pointless..."Dogs and cats in our care ARE not wild animals so there choices of food is ours not theirs." Come on Craig...I have two pets one is a Rabbit and the other is a Guinea pig and both are Vegans by nature. I would NEVER thinking of feeding them something that their don't eat. I like Meat. It's something to think about. rashaan Craig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Hiya Susan and Rashaan, we have had this debate here before Dogs and cat in our care ARE not wild animals so there choices of food is ours not theirs compassion is our choice we just share that with them my two dogs are healthy happy and FIT (too fit sometimes) energy plus etc.. so I would recommend a Vegan diet for them if you like I will forward what I feed my dogs to you it is a bit of work at first but worth it in the end all the best Craig I like your viewpoint susan...it should be the animals choice. Susan Spain <susanspain2004 wrote: Interesting... So I wonder: if cats were given vegan food side-by-side with meat-based food, would some choose to be vegan? I mean, pick that food over the meat-based stuff? Or would their instincts drive them to eat the meat, there being no "moral" choice to the killing from the perspective of the cat...rashaan laurent <rnlaurent wrote: I am vegan but I don't know if I would want my cat or dog to do the same. The same way it was my choice not to eat animal product...I would want the same for my pet. rashaanJo bb <Heartwork wrote: Yes - Veggiekat and Veggiekitten.Jo Topic for debate: vegan cats: yes or no?> Anyone's two cents welcome on this discussion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 Hi Peter I don't know where you can get a can of worms as I don't look for cat food. I just make the point that the contents of any cat food that I have been aware of are not a natural diet for a cat, anymore than some seem to consider a vegan diet natural for a cat. Jo Hi Jo, I agree , where can I get such a can of worms? I stopped buying Iams when this all came to light. Still have one kitten free to a good home? Anyone want to make its first taste of solids a vegan one? The Valley Vegan....Jo bb <Heartwork wrote: Hi Peter As has been pointed out - cats would not normally eat cows, lambs, rabbits, fish and chickens, which is what is usually fed to them from tins. By my experience of rescuing small animals from my neighbours cats, they would normally eat small birds, mice, voles, frogs, toads, worms and beetles, and the odd spider. The squirrels and bigger birds do not seem to have much trouble fending off cats. So - maybe, if the cat is to have a 'natural' diet, tinned cat foods should contain beetles and worms etc. preferably uncooked! Another point is that if people use Iams food there are serious issues with the company over their testing on dogs, cats etc. BBJo - peter hurd Saturday, October 02, 2004 2:24 PM RE: Topic for debate: vegan cats: yes or no? As I have said before on this topic, I will not force my beliefs on anyone or any other species. I know dogs are basically omnivores, but cats are another matter and need Taurine in their diet. I know that there are vegan cat foods with manufactured Taurine in them, but I am not convinced that the animals like them that much, or that they should be forced to change their natural diet just because of my belief system. Feline fine, The Valley Vegan... P.S. The three week kitten`s doin fine, shame the other two "dissapeared", but now that the mother has brought it to my house ( they are living in my garage at present ), I shall make sure that they are only disturbed for food until the mother re-locates or decides to adopt us!. Once the kitten is old enough to stand on its own four paws, then I will have to make a few more decisions....Craig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Hiya Susan and Rashaan, we have had this debate here before Dogs and cat in our care ARE not wild animals so there choices of food is ours not theirs compassion is our choice we just share that with them my two dogs are healthy happy and FIT (too fit sometimes) energy plus etc.. so I would recommend a Vegan diet for them if you like I will forward what I feed my dogs to you it is a bit of work at first but worth it in the end all the best Craig I like your viewpoint susan...it should be the animals choice. Susan Spain <susanspain2004 wrote: Interesting... So I wonder: if cats were given vegan food side-by-side with meat-based food, would some choose to be vegan? I mean, pick that food over the meat-based stuff? Or would their instincts drive them to eat the meat, there being no "moral" choice to the killing from the perspective of the cat...rashaan laurent <rnlaurent wrote: I am vegan but I don't know if I would want my cat or dog to do the same. The same way it was my choice not to eat animal product...I would want the same for my pet. rashaanJo bb <Heartwork wrote: Yes - Veggiekat and Veggiekitten.Jo Topic for debate: vegan cats: yes or no?> Anyone's two cents welcome on this discussion!To send an email to - Mail is new and improved - Check it out! To send an email to - Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. To send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to - Peter H ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! To send an email to - To send an email to - Peter H ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Good luck finding the kitty a home. Too bad my home would be horrible for a kitty (many poisonous plants, me gone all the time) cause I really love cats. sara , peter hurd <swpgh01@t...> wrote: > Hi Jo, > I agree , where can I get such a can of worms? > I stopped buying Iams when this all came to light. > Still have one kitten free to a good home? > Anyone want to make its first taste of solids a vegan one? > The Valley Vegan.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 Thanks Sara, as much as I hate to have to "find a home" for her, I feel that it may be in her best interests given the circumstances. I too have poisonous plants in my house, but my cats have never shown any interest in them, I think they have some natural intuition. I too am out of the house most of the day, which as they seem to sleep 18 hours a day, doesnt seem to bother them. Its getting hard to get them to go out! Lazy fur balls! The valley Vegan...Sara <gagrip5 wrote: Good luck finding the kitty a home.Too bad my home would be horrible for a kitty (many poisonous plants, me gone all the time) cause I really love cats.sara , peter hurd wrote:> Hi Jo,> I agree , where can I get such a can of worms?> I stopped buying Iams when this all came to light.> Still have one kitten free to a good home?> Anyone want to make its first taste of solids a vegan one?> The Valley Vegan.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 They're not lazy, they're just saving their energy... For what, I don't know. What kinda plants do you have? I am a plant fanatic and have many, many species of Euphorbia. Along with various other desert plants. sara , peter hurd <swpgh01@t...> wrote: > Thanks Sara, as much as I hate to have to " find a home " for her, I feel that it may be in her best interests given the circumstances. I too have poisonous plants in my house, but my cats have never shown any interest in them, I think they have some natural intuition. I too am out of the house most of the day, which as they seem to sleep 18 hours a day, doesnt seem to bother them. Its getting hard to get them to go out! > Lazy fur balls! > > The valley Vegan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Yah for vegan cats..Sara <gagrip5 wrote: They're not lazy, they're just saving their energy... For what, I don't know.What kinda plants do you have? I am a plant fanatic and have many, many species of Euphorbia. Along with various other desert plants.sara , peter hurd <swpgh01@t...> wrote:> Thanks Sara, as much as I hate to have to "find a home" for her, I feel that it may be in her best interests given the circumstances. I too have poisonous plants in my house, but my cats have never shown any interest in them, I think they have some natural intuition. I too am out of the house most of the day, which as they seem to sleep 18 hours a day, doesnt seem to bother them. Its getting hard to get them to go out!> Lazy fur balls!> > The valley Vegan...To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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