Guest guest Report post Posted October 17, 2004 jsome89 wrote: > > Hi, my name is Gino and I have a philosophical question. I've been > vegan for 4 yrs now and my roommate has been trying to but has > trouble with the dairy part, but she won't eat meat. But she still > believes that we are suppost to eat meat but because of the way the > animals are abused she wont. So here's my question: If by some > miracle the meat, dairy and all the other ones started some how being > done ethically and such, would any one of you start eating meat > and/or dairy again? It's not completely impossible to produce dairy products which I'd consider ethically acceptable, it's just easier to be vegan than check them all . With respect to meat, by the time you'd given an animal a decent lifespan as well as a decent standard of living, you wouldn't want to eat the meat. On the other hand, if the meat & milk were grown in non-sentient vats from/as tissue cultures, which is a bit of a staple of science fiction, then I'd have very little ethical problem with it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 17, 2004 , " jsome89 " <jsome89> wrote: > > Hi, my name is Gino and I have a philosophical question. I've been > vegan for 4 yrs now and my roommate has been trying to but has > trouble with the dairy part, but she won't eat meat. But she still > believes that we are suppost to eat meat but because of the way the > animals are abused she wont. So here's my question: If by some > miracle the meat, dairy and all the other ones started some how being > done ethically and such, would any one of you start eating meat > and/or dairy again? I at this point would no matter what eat meat or > dairy again, i just dont want to be part of it in any way, to me it's > still being part of killing! Just a curious question that i'm > interested in seeing what other vegans thought. Peace, Gino There are so many reasons not to eat meat or dairy products besides the abuse that the animals endure. People that eat meat and dairy products have higher occurances of cancer, osteoperosis, and many other nasty potentially deadly health problems. Besides, even if the animals were raised and slaughtered in a more ethical manner, their waste would still be polluting the environment. I personally believe that there is no good reason to take the life of living animal for food when you can get all the necessary nutrients your body needs from plant sources. Vanessa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 18, 2004 Gino, just get your room mate to www.notmilk.com let them browse away give them say 3 hours on the site then ask all those questions again I'll be waiting for the result thx Craig jsome89 [jsome89]Monday, October 18, 2004 6:27 AM Subject: I have a question.Hi, my name is Gino and I have a philosophical question. I've been vegan for 4 yrs now and my roommate has been trying to but has trouble with the dairy part, but she won't eat meat. But she still believes that we are suppost to eat meat but because of the way the animals are abused she wont. So here's my question: If by some miracle the meat, dairy and all the other ones started some how being done ethically and such, would any one of you start eating meat and/or dairy again? I at this point would no matter what eat meat or dairy again, i just dont want to be part of it in any way, to me it's still being part of killing! Just a curious question that i'm interested in seeing what other vegans thought. Peace, GinoTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 18, 2004 Hey Craig, thanks for the new site, the more info i have at my disposal the better. But she knows all that really, well not so much the effects of milk. She's suffers from depression and anxiety and i think she sometimes can't help the self destructive behavior. But i want more of an arguement for we're human and suppost to eat meat, that we're omnivores. Im not sure i'm kinda stuck between being an activist and being a supportive friend with her neuroses. But be sure i'll never give up the good fight. Peace, Gino Craig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Gino, just get your room mate to www.notmilk.com let them browse away give them say 3 hours on the site then ask all those questions again I'll be waiting for the result thx Craig jsome89 [jsome89]Monday, October 18, 2004 6:27 AM Subject: I have a question.Hi, my name is Gino and I have a philosophical question. I've been vegan for 4 yrs now and my roommate has been trying to but has trouble with the dairy part, but she won't eat meat. But she still believes that we are suppost to eat meat but because of the way the animals are abused she wont. So here's my question: If by some miracle the meat, dairy and all the other ones started some how being done ethically and such, would any one of you start eating meat and/or dairy again? I at this point would no matter what eat meat or dairy again, i just dont want to be part of it in any way, to me it's still being part of killing! Just a curious question that i'm interested in seeing what other vegans thought. Peace, GinoTo send an email to - To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 18, 2004 *scratches head* how does one "ethically" eat meat??? umm.. last time i checked, cows and pigs didn't give off fruiting bodies that we could happily munch on and they wouldn't mind... there is no "ethical" meat..you can talk about free range and all that all ya want.. but dead is dead.. is there an ethical way you can have a slave? be there a kinder gentler way to dine on the supple flesh of young children? as fer milk... cows (and all mammals) produce milk fer one reason..t ofeed their offspring if we are drinkin another creatures milk a. so, wot is the baby drinking? b. wot happens to the baby c. you still need the cow to be constantly lactating..... fraggle jsome89 Oct 17, 2004 3:27 PM I have a question. Hi, my name is Gino and I have a philosophical question. I've been vegan for 4 yrs now and my roommate has been trying to but has trouble with the dairy part, but she won't eat meat. But she still believes that we are suppost to eat meat but because of the way the animals are abused she wont. So here's my question: If by some miracle the meat, dairy and all the other ones started some how being done ethically and such, would any one of you start eating meat and/or dairy again? I at this point would no matter what eat meat or dairy again, i just dont want to be part of it in any way, to me it's still being part of killing! Just a curious question that i'm interested in seeing what other vegans thought. Peace, GinoTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 18, 2004 how do ya figure we are suppose toeat meat... ? hmm? ok..go grab yer cat..ok, if you don't have one..go get a neighbors..ask first tho... ok.. open its mouth ok..now after you have stopped yer thumb from bleedin and have bandaged the scratches on yer arms, legs, face, thighs etc, do you remember wot you saw? big sharp pointy teeth good fer ripping flesh, tearin into little animals, holding them in their mouths now..go into the bathrrom look in the mirror open yer mouth... hmmm doesn't look the same does it? if we were suppose to eat meat, our digestive tract would be itty bitty if we were suppose to eat meat, our teeth would show it if we were suppose to eat meat, why don't we have claws(ex gurlfriends not applicable) if we were suppose to eat meat, why do we see in color? and, more to point, lets ASSUME fer some reason we are an evolutional misfit and we are suppose to eat dead animals so wot? are people bigger then you er me SUPPOSE to beat the crap out of us on a daily basis? if i had a gun, am i suppose to rob you? shoot you? no...prolly not and why not because just cuz you can do something doesn't mean ya should... cheers fraggle Gino Czaster Oct 17, 2004 6:23 PM RE: I have a question. Hey Craig, thanks for the new site, the more info i have at my disposal the better. But she knows all that really, well not so much the effects of milk. She's suffers from depression and anxiety and i think she sometimes can't help the self destructive behavior. But i want more of an arguement for we're human and suppost to eat meat, that we're omnivores. Im not sure i'm kinda stuck between being an activist and being a supportive friend with her neuroses. But be sure i'll never give up the good fight. Peace, Gino Craig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Gino, just get your room mate to www.notmilk.com let them browse away give them say 3 hours on the site then ask all those questions again I'll be waiting for the result thx Craig jsome89 [jsome89]Monday, October 18, 2004 6:27 AM Subject: I have a question.Hi, my name is Gino and I have a philosophical question. I've been vegan for 4 yrs now and my roommate has been trying to but has trouble with the dairy part, but she won't eat meat. But she still believes that we are suppost to eat meat but because of the way the animals are abused she wont. So here's my question: If by some miracle the meat, dairy and all the other ones started some how being done ethically and such, would any one of you start eating meat and/or dairy again? I at this point would no matter what eat meat or dairy again, i just dont want to be part of it in any way, to me it's still being part of killing! Just a curious question that i'm interested in seeing what other vegans thought. Peace, GinoTo send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 18, 2004 Gino, my point is there is no way to kill ethically ..none... can't be done no way no how.. we are primarily herbivores who have found ways to eat COOKED animals raw is rare and sometimes dangerous to us yet a cat can eat raw meat all day long everyday for its whole life and not suffer the ill effects we do dogs are omnivores who can easily become Vegans our teeth are made for chewing not ripping our intestines and stomach don't handle meat very well at all veggies pass through in matter of hours meat can sit for weeks. milk is made for the babies of the animals from which it came eggs are discarded embryos (liquid chicken). honey is bee vomit meant to feed the other bees. there is that enough =o]] on the www.goveg.com petas site there is a place to download video's and audio's there is one called Vegan in a Nutshell it is really informative all the best Craig I have a question. Hey Craig, thanks for the new site, the more info i have at my disposal the better. But she knows all that really, well not so much the effects of milk. She's suffers from depression and anxiety and i think she sometimes can't help the self destructive behavior. But i want more of an arguement for we're human and suppost to eat meat, that we're omnivores. Im not sure i'm kinda stuck between being an activist and being a supportive friend with her neuroses. But be sure i'll never give up the good fight. Peace, Gino Craig Dearth <cd39 wrote: Gino, just get your room mate to www.notmilk.com let them browse away give them say 3 hours on the site then ask all those questions again I'll be waiting for the result thx Craig jsome89 [jsome89]Monday, October 18, 2004 6:27 AM Subject: I have a question.Hi, my name is Gino and I have a philosophical question. I've been vegan for 4 yrs now and my roommate has been trying to but has trouble with the dairy part, but she won't eat meat. But she still believes that we are suppost to eat meat but because of the way the animals are abused she wont. So here's my question: If by some miracle the meat, dairy and all the other ones started some how being done ethically and such, would any one of you start eating meat and/or dairy again? I at this point would no matter what eat meat or dairy again, i just dont want to be part of it in any way, to me it's still being part of killing! Just a curious question that i'm interested in seeing what other vegans thought. Peace, Gino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 18, 2004 Check out John McDougall lecture The Perils of Dairy"on www.vegsource.com Milk is for babies,-I wouldn't drink it even it was "ethically" produced, Jo - Craig Dearth Monday, October 18, 2004 12:57 AM RE: I have a question. Gino, just get your room mate to www.notmilk.com let them browse away give them say 3 hours on the site then ask all those questions again I'll be waiting for the result thx Craig jsome89 [jsome89]Monday, October 18, 2004 6:27 AM Subject: I have a question.Hi, my name is Gino and I have a philosophical question. I've been vegan for 4 yrs now and my roommate has been trying to but has trouble with the dairy part, but she won't eat meat. But she still believes that we are suppost to eat meat but because of the way the animals are abused she wont. So here's my question: If by some miracle the meat, dairy and all the other ones started some how being done ethically and such, would any one of you start eating meat and/or dairy again? I at this point would no matter what eat meat or dairy again, i just dont want to be part of it in any way, to me it's still being part of killing! Just a curious question that i'm interested in seeing what other vegans thought. Peace, GinoTo send an email to - To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 18, 2004 If it was ethically possible, I still would not. I believe the human body isn't intended to injest animal products. Every book I have read on being vegan, points out US's higher occurance of chronic disease. I think also a lot of people can not handle the lactose in milk. , " jsome89 " <jsome89> wrote: > > Hi, my name is Gino and I have a philosophical question. I've been > vegan for 4 yrs now and my roommate has been trying to but has > trouble with the dairy part, but she won't eat meat. But she still > believes that we are suppost to eat meat but because of the way the > animals are abused she wont. So here's my question: If by some > miracle the meat, dairy and all the other ones started some how being > done ethically and such, would any one of you start eating meat > and/or dairy again? I at this point would no matter what eat meat or > dairy again, i just dont want to be part of it in any way, to me it's > still being part of killing! Just a curious question that i'm > interested in seeing what other vegans thought. Peace, Gino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 18, 2004 My opinion - exactly what Fraggle says. Jo - fraggle Monday, October 18, 2004 5:51 AM Re: I have a question. *scratches head* how does one "ethically" eat meat??? umm.. last time i checked, cows and pigs didn't give off fruiting bodies that we could happily munch on and they wouldn't mind... there is no "ethical" meat..you can talk about free range and all that all ya want.. but dead is dead.. is there an ethical way you can have a slave? be there a kinder gentler way to dine on the supple flesh of young children? as fer milk... cows (and all mammals) produce milk fer one reason..t ofeed their offspring if we are drinkin another creatures milk a. so, wot is the baby drinking? b. wot happens to the baby c. you still need the cow to be constantly lactating..... fraggle jsome89 Oct 17, 2004 3:27 PM I have a question. Hi, my name is Gino and I have a philosophical question. I've been vegan for 4 yrs now and my roommate has been trying to but has trouble with the dairy part, but she won't eat meat. But she still believes that we are suppost to eat meat but because of the way the animals are abused she wont. So here's my question: If by some miracle the meat, dairy and all the other ones started some how being done ethically and such, would any one of you start eating meat and/or dairy again? I at this point would no matter what eat meat or dairy again, i just dont want to be part of it in any way, to me it's still being part of killing! Just a curious question that i'm interested in seeing what other vegans thought. Peace, GinoTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 18, 2004 *hands you yer bribe* Jo bb <Heartwork Oct 18, 2004 9:23 AM Re: I have a question. <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC " -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN " > <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content= " text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 " > <META content= " MSHTML 6.00.2600.0 " name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My opinion - exactly what Fraggle says.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jo</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style= " PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px " > <DIV style= " FONT: 10pt arial " >- </DIV> <DIV style= " BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black " ><B></B> <A title=EBbrewpunx href= " EBbrewpunx " >fraggle</A> </DIV> <DIV style= " FONT: 10pt arial " ><B>To:</B> <A title= href= " " > </A> </DIV> <DIV style= " FONT: 10pt arial " ><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 18, 2004 5:51 AM</DIV> <DIV style= " FONT: 10pt arial " ><B>Subject:</B> Re: I have a question.</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><BR>*scratches head*</DIV> <DIV>how does one " ethically " eat meat???</DIV> <DIV>umm..</DIV> <DIV>last time i checked, cows and pigs didn't give off fruiting bodies that we could happily munch on and they wouldn't mind...</DIV> <DIV>there is no " ethical " meat..you can talk about free range and all that all ya want..</DIV> <DIV>but</DIV> <DIV>dead is dead..</DIV> <DIV>is there an ethical way you can have a slave?</DIV> <DIV>be there a kinder gentler way to dine on the supple flesh of young children?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as fer milk...</DIV> <DIV>cows (and all mammals) produce milk fer one reason..t ofeed their offspring</DIV> <DIV>if we are drinkin another creatures milk</DIV> <DIV>a. so, wot is the baby drinking?</DIV> <DIV>b. wot happens to the baby</DIV> <DIV>c. you still need the cow to be constantly lactating.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>fraggle<BR><BR> <BR>jsome89 <JSOME89<BR>Oct 17, 2004 3:27 PM <BR>To: <BR> I have a question. <BR><BR><ZZZHTML><ZZZBODY><TT><BR>Hi, my name is Gino and I have a philosophical question. I've been <BR>vegan for 4 yrs now and my roommate has been trying to but has <BR>trouble with the dairy part, but she won't eat meat. But she still <BR>believes that we are suppost to eat meat but because of the way the <BR>animals are abused she wont. So here's my question: If by some <BR>miracle the meat, dairy and all the other ones started some how being <BR>done ethically and such, would any one of you start eating meat <BR>and/or dairy again? I at this point would no matter what eat meat or <BR>dairy again, i just dont want to be part of it in any way, to me it's <BR>still being part of killing! Just a curious question that i'm <BR>interested in seeing what other vegans thought. Peace, Gino<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></TT><BR><BR><TT>To send an email to - </TT> <BR><BR><BR></DIV><ZZZ!-- |**|begin egp ZZZhtml banner|**| --> <DIV> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 border=0> <TBODY> <TR bgColor=#ffffcc> <TD align=middle><FONT color=#003399 size=-1><B> Sponsor</B></FONT></TD></TR> <TR bgColor=#ffffff> <TD align=middle width=470> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD align=middle><FONT face=arial size=-2></FONT><BR><A href= " http://us.ard./SIG=129cj5bg2/M=315388.5497957.6576270.3001176/D=g\ roups/S=1705129295:HM/EXP=1098138756/A=2372354/R=0/SIG=12id813k2/*https://www.or\ chardbank.com/hcs/hcsapplication?pf=PLApply & media=EMYHNL40F21004SS " alt= " " ><IMG height=250 alt= " click here " src= " http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ho/household/f2_free2_300x250_def_0904.\ gif " width=300 border=0></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR> <TR> <TD><IMG height=1 alt= " " src= " http://us.adserver./l?M=315388.5497957.6576270.3001176/D=groups/S=\ :HM/A=2372354/rand=178639436 " width=1></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV><ZZZ!-- egp ZZZhtml banner|**| -- |**|end><ZZZ!-- |**|begin egp ZZZhtml banner|**| --> <DIV><BR></DIV><TT> <DIV> <HR width=500> </DIV> <DIV><B> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 18, 2004 Hi Gino > If by some > miracle the meat, dairy and all the other ones started some how being > done ethically and such, would any one of you start eating meat > and/or dairy again? An intriguing question, if only for the mind boggling concept of how murder and theft could ever be done ethically!! BB Peter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 18, 2004 i'm still perplexed on how you ethically slaughter something? kinder gentler murder? *looks confused* so, if you petted the baby harp seal, and then sang to it as you beat it to death, it would be ok? if the turks gave the little armenian children candy before they razed there village all would be good? i think i need to hide under my desk again... fraggle There are so many reasons not to eat meat or dairy products besides <BR> the abuse that the animals endure. People that eat meat and dairy <BR> products have higher occurances of cancer, osteoperosis, and many <BR> other nasty potentially deadly health problems. Besides, even if the <BR> animals were raised and slaughtered in a more ethical manner, their <BR> waste would still be polluting the environment. I personally believe <BR> that there is no good reason to take the life of living animal for <BR> food when you can get all the necessary nutrients your body needs <BR> from plant sources. <BR> <BR> Vanessa <BR> < Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 18, 2004 All killing is unethical, so I don't even see any way producing animal products would ever be ethical. Besides, animal products are gross... no way I'd ever eat meat/dairy again. - jsome89 Sunday, October 17, 2004 5:27 PM I have a question. Hi, my name is Gino and I have a philosophical question. I've been vegan for 4 yrs now and my roommate has been trying to but has trouble with the dairy part, but she won't eat meat. But she still believes that we are suppost to eat meat but because of the way the animals are abused she wont. So here's my question: If by some miracle the meat, dairy and all the other ones started some how being done ethically and such, would any one of you start eating meat and/or dairy again? I at this point would no matter what eat meat or dairy again, i just dont want to be part of it in any way, to me it's still being part of killing! Just a curious question that i'm interested in seeing what other vegans thought. Peace, GinoTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 18, 2004 Hi everyone, ok for some stupid reason I didnt quite see it that way, does that make me a bad vegan? Ooops, i guess my quest for a philosophical question blew up in my face. LOL. Do i need to hand in my Vegan Card now? Peace, Gino Jo bb <Heartwork wrote: My opinion - exactly what Fraggle says. Jo - fraggle Monday, October 18, 2004 5:51 AM Re: I have a question. *scratches head* how does one "ethically" eat meat??? umm.. last time i checked, cows and pigs didn't give off fruiting bodies that we could happily munch on and they wouldn't mind... there is no "ethical" meat..you can talk about free range and all that all ya want.. but dead is dead.. is there an ethical way you can have a slave? be there a kinder gentler way to dine on the supple flesh of young children? as fer milk... cows (and all mammals) produce milk fer one reason..t ofeed their offspring if we are drinkin another creatures milk a. so, wot is the baby drinking? b. wot happens to the baby c. you still need the cow to be constantly lactating..... fraggle jsome89 Oct 17, 2004 3:27 PM I have a question. Hi, my name is Gino and I have a philosophical question. I've been vegan for 4 yrs now and my roommate has been trying to but has trouble with the dairy part, but she won't eat meat. But she still believes that we are suppost to eat meat but because of the way the animals are abused she wont. So here's my question: If by some miracle the meat, dairy and all the other ones started some how being done ethically and such, would any one of you start eating meat and/or dairy again? I at this point would no matter what eat meat or dairy again, i just dont want to be part of it in any way, to me it's still being part of killing! Just a curious question that i'm interested in seeing what other vegans thought. Peace, GinoTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 18, 2004 No need to hand in your card - you're still a vegan aren't you? Jo - Gino Czaster Monday, October 18, 2004 9:48 PM Re: I have a question. Hi everyone, ok for some stupid reason I didnt quite see it that way, does that make me a bad vegan? Ooops, i guess my quest for a philosophical question blew up in my face. LOL. Do i need to hand in my Vegan Card now? Peace, Gino Jo bb <Heartwork wrote: My opinion - exactly what Fraggle says. Jo - fraggle Monday, October 18, 2004 5:51 AM Re: I have a question. *scratches head* how does one "ethically" eat meat??? umm.. last time i checked, cows and pigs didn't give off fruiting bodies that we could happily munch on and they wouldn't mind... there is no "ethical" meat..you can talk about free range and all that all ya want.. but dead is dead.. is there an ethical way you can have a slave? be there a kinder gentler way to dine on the supple flesh of young children? as fer milk... cows (and all mammals) produce milk fer one reason..t ofeed their offspring if we are drinkin another creatures milk a. so, wot is the baby drinking? b. wot happens to the baby c. you still need the cow to be constantly lactating..... fraggle jsome89 Oct 17, 2004 3:27 PM I have a question. Hi, my name is Gino and I have a philosophical question. I've been vegan for 4 yrs now and my roommate has been trying to but has trouble with the dairy part, but she won't eat meat. But she still believes that we are suppost to eat meat but because of the way the animals are abused she wont. So here's my question: If by some miracle the meat, dairy and all the other ones started some how being done ethically and such, would any one of you start eating meat and/or dairy again? I at this point would no matter what eat meat or dairy again, i just dont want to be part of it in any way, to me it's still being part of killing! Just a curious question that i'm interested in seeing what other vegans thought. Peace, GinoTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 18, 2004 nah its all a learnin experience we are all different and no one is more right then someone else you asked we answered cheers fraggle Gino Czaster <jsome89 Oct 18, 2004 1:48 PM Re: I have a question. <html><body> <DIV><BR>Hi everyone, ok for some stupid reason I didnt quite see it that way, does that make me a bad vegan? Ooops, i guess my quest for a philosophical question blew up in my face. LOL. Do i need to hand in my Vegan Card now? Peace, Gino</DIV> <DIV><BR><B><I>Jo bb <Heartwork</I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style= " PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid " > <META content= " MSHTML 6.00.2600.0 " name=GENERATOR> < Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 19, 2004 Gino, I think 20 push-ups will do....lol hey guy don't beat your self up just absorb the info follow the links and pass on the info =o]] enjoy awareness Craig ] I have a question. Hi everyone, ok for some stupid reason I didnt quite see it that way, does that make me a bad vegan? Ooops, i guess my quest for a philosophical question blew up in my face. LOL. Do i need to hand in my Vegan Card now? Peace, Gino Jo bb <Heartwork wrote: My opinion - exactly what Fraggle says. Jo - fraggle Monday, October 18, 2004 5:51 AM Re: I have a question. *scratches head* how does one "ethically" eat meat??? umm.. last time i checked, cows and pigs didn't give off fruiting bodies that we could happily munch on and they wouldn't mind... there is no "ethical" meat..you can talk about free range and all that all ya want.. but dead is dead.. is there an ethical way you can have a slave? be there a kinder gentler way to dine on the supple flesh of young children? as fer milk... cows (and all mammals) produce milk fer one reason..t ofeed their offspring if we are drinkin another creatures milk a. so, wot is the baby drinking? b. wot happens to the baby c. you still need the cow to be constantly lactating..... fraggle jsome89 Oct 17, 2004 3:27 PM I have a question. Hi, my name is Gino and I have a philosophical question. I've been vegan for 4 yrs now and my roommate has been trying to but has trouble with the dairy part, but she won't eat meat. But she still believes that we are suppost to eat meat but because of the way the animals are abused she wont. So here's my question: If by some miracle the meat, dairy and all the other ones started some how being done ethically and such, would any one of you start eating meat and/or dairy again? I at this point would no matter what eat meat or dairy again, i just dont want to be part of it in any way, to me it's still being part of killing! Just a curious question that i'm interested in seeing what other vegans thought. Peace, Gino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 19, 2004 I agree that there is no ethical way to slaughter something. However, if slaughter houses followed the regulations in place to protect animals from uneccessary suffering, which they don't, slaughter would be a little more ethical at least. It still wouldn't be ethical, but at least it would make it a little bit better. Vanessa fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: i'm still perplexed on how you ethically slaughter something?kinder gentler murder?*looks confused*so, if you petted the baby harp seal, and then sang to it as you beat it to death, it would be ok?if the turks gave the little armenian children candy before they razed there village all would be good?i think i need to hide under my desk again...fraggleThere are so many reasons not to eat meat or dairy products besides <BR>the abuse that the animals endure. People that eat meat and dairy <BR>products have higher occurances of cancer, osteoperosis, and many <BR>other nasty potentially deadly health problems. Besides, even if the <BR>animals were raised and slaughtered in a more ethical manner, their <BR>waste would still be polluting the environment. I personally believe <BR>that there is no good reason to take the life of living animal for <BR>food when you can get all the necessary nutrients your body needs <BR>from plant sources. <BR><BR>Vanessa <BR><To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 19, 2004 guess it all depends on yer definition of better if they played mozart in the gas chambers..is it better?? sorry..ya'll know by now fraggle is an opinionated lil bugger Vanessa Hodgson <rosestar13 Oct 18, 2004 7:20 PM Re: Re: I have a question. <html><body> <DIV>I agree that there is no ethical way to slaughter something. However, if slaughter houses followed the regulations in place to protect animals from uneccessary suffering, which they don't, slaughter would be a little more ethical at least. It still wouldn't be ethical, but at least it would make it a little bit better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Vanessa <BR></DIV><B><I></I></B> <DIV><B><I>fraggle <EBbrewpunx</I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style= " PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid " ><TT>i'm still perplexed on how you ethically slaughter something?<BR>kinder gentler murder?<BR>*looks confused*<BR><BR>so, if you petted the baby harp seal, and then sang to it as you beat it to death, it would be ok?<BR>if the turks gave the little armenian children candy before they razed there village all would be good?<BR>i think i need to hide under my desk again...<BR>fraggle<BR><BR>There are so many reasons not to eat meat or dairy products besides <BR><BR>the abuse that the animals endure. People that eat meat and dairy <BR><BR>products have higher occurances of cancer, osteoperosis, and many <BR><BR>other nasty potentially deadly health problems. Besides, even if the <BR><BR>animals were raised and slaughtered in a more ethical manner, their <BR><BR>waste would still be polluting the environment. I personally believe <BR><BR>that there is no good reason to take the life of living animal for <BR><BR>food when you can get all the necessary nutrients your body needs <BR><BR>from plant sources. <BR><BR><BR><BR>Vanessa <BR><BR><<BR></TT><BR><BR><TT>To send an email to - </TT> <BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><p><b\ r><br>Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around <br> <br><br> <tt> To send an email to - </tt> <br><br> <br> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC> <td align=center><font size= " -1 " color=#003399><b> Sponsor</b></font></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF> <td align=center width=470><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0> <tr> <td align=center><font face=arial size=-2></font><br><a href= " http://us.ard./SIG=129jib8ie/M=294855.5468653.6549235.3001176/D=g\ roups/S=1705129295:HM/EXP=1098238829/A=2376776/R=0/SIG=11ldm1jvc/*http://promoti\ ons./ydomains2004/index.html " target= " _blank " ><img src= " http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/_domain/lrec_scuba_082004.jpg " alt= " click here " width= " 300 " height= " 250 " border= " 0 " ></a></td></tr></table> </td> </tr> <tr><td><img alt= " " width=1 height=1 src= " http://us.adserver./l?M=294855.5468653.6549235.3001176/D=groups/S=\ :HM/A=2376776/rand=336216918 " ></td></tr> </table> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <br> <tt><hr width= " 500 " > <b> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 19, 2004 By better I meant that if slaughter houses followed the regulations in place by the FDA, at least animals wouldn't basically be torn apart while they were still conscious and go through a great deal of agony before they finally die.fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: guess it all depends on yer definition of better:)if they played mozart in the gas chambers..is it better??sorry..ya'll know by now fraggle is an opinionated lil buggerVanessa Hodgson <rosestar13Oct 18, 2004 7:20 PM Subject: Re: Re: I have a question.<html><body><DIV>I agree that there is no ethical way to slaughter something. However, if slaughter houses followed the regulations in place to protect animals from uneccessary suffering, which they don't, slaughter would be a little more ethical at least. It still wouldn't be ethical, but at least it would make it a little bit better.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Vanessa <BR></DIV><B><I></I></B><DIV><B><I>fraggle <EBbrewpunx</I></B> wrote:</DIV><BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><TT>i'm still perplexed on how you ethically slaughter something?<BR>kinder gentler murder?<BR>*looks confused*<BR><BR>so, if you petted the baby harp seal, and then sang to it as you beat it to death, it would be ok?<BR>if the turks gave the little armenian children candy before they razed there village all would be good?<BR>i think i need to hide under my desk again...<BR>fraggle<BR><BR>There are so many reasons not to eat meat or dairy products besides <BR><BR>the abuse that the animals endure. People that eat meat and dairy <BR><BR>products have higher occurances of cancer, osteoperosis, and many <BR><BR>other nasty potentially deadly health problems. Besides, even if the <BR><BR>animals were raised and slaughtered in a more ethical manner, their <BR><BR>waste would still be polluting the environment. I personally believe <BR><BR>that there isno good reason to take the life of living animal for <BR><BR>food when you can get all the necessary nutrients your body needs <BR><BR>from plant sources. <BR><BR><BR><BR>Vanessa <BR><BR><<BR></TT><BR><BR><TT>To send an email to - </TT> <BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><p><br><br> <br> <br><br><tt>To send an email to - </tt><br><br><br><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --><table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2><tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC><td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 19, 2004 hmmm sorry not buying it.. just my opinion of course... murder is murder is murder..whether its done *humanely* er not... i can ALMOST let you have that, if say it was under different circumstances, but a slaughterhouse is just that..an abbatoir.... Vanessa Hodgson <rosestar13 Oct 19, 2004 6:54 AM Re: Re: I have a question. <html><body> <DIV>By better I meant that if slaughter houses followed the regulations in place by the FDA, at least animals wouldn't basically be torn apart while they were still conscious and go through a great deal of agony before they finally die.<BR><BR><B><I>fraggle <EBbrewpunx</I></B> wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style= " PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid " ><TT>guess it all depends on yer definition of better<BR><BR>if they played mozart in the gas chambers..is it better??<BR>sorry..ya'll know by now fraggle is an opinionated lil bugger<BR><BR><BR>Vanessa Hodgson <rosestar13<BR>Oct 18, 2004 7:20 PM<BR>To: <BR>Re: Re: I have a question.<BR><BR><html><body><BR><BR><BR><DIV>I agree that there is no ethical way to slaughter something. However, if slaughter houses followed the regulations in place to protect animals from uneccessary suffering, which they don't, slaughter would be a little more ethical at least. It still wouldn't be ethical, but at least it would make it a little bit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 19, 2004 I think Ian said it best if you let an animal live out his or her life then eat them when they die well I guess that might be ok BUT>> who would want too.... yuck yuck yuck Craig Vanessa Hodgson [rosestar13]Tuesday, October 19, 2004 9:55 PM Subject: Re: Re: I have a question. By better I meant that if slaughter houses followed the regulations in place by the FDA, at least animals wouldn't basically be torn apart while they were still conscious and go through a great deal of agony before they finally die.fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: guess it all depends on yer definition of better:)if they played mozart in the gas chambers..is it better??sorry..ya'll know by now fraggle is an opinionated lil buggerVanessa Hodgson <rosestar13Oct 18, 2004 7:20 PM Subject: Re: Re: I have a question.<html><body><DIV>I agree that there is no ethical way to slaughter something. However, if slaughter houses followed the regulations in place to protect animals from uneccessary suffering, which they don't, slaughter would be a little more ethical at least. It still wouldn't be ethical, but at least it would make it a little bit better.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Vanessa <BR></DIV><B><I></I></B><DIV><B><I>fraggle <EBbrewpunx</I></B> wrote:</DIV><BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><TT>i'm still perplexed on how you ethically slaughter something?<BR>kinder gentler murder?<BR>*looks confused*<BR><BR>so, if you petted the baby harp seal, and then sang to it as you beat it to death, it would be ok?<BR>if the turks gave the little armenian children candy before they razed there village all would be good?<BR>i think i need to hide under my desk again...<BR>fraggle<BR><BR>There are so many reasons not to eat meat or dairy products besides <BR><BR>the abuse that the animals endure. People that eat meat and dairy <BR><BR>products have higher occurances of cancer, osteoperosis, and many <BR><BR>other nasty potentially deadly health problems. Besides, even if the <BR><BR>animals were raised and slaughtered in a more ethical manner, their <BR><BR>waste would still be polluting the environment. I personally believe <BR><BR>that there isno good reason to take the life of living animal for <BR><BR>food when you can get all the necessary nutrients your body needs <BR><BR>from plant sources. <BR><BR><BR><BR>Vanessa <BR><BR><<BR></TT><BR><BR><TT>To send an email to - </TT> <BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><p><br><br> <br> <br><br><tt>To send an email to - </tt><br><br><br><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --><table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2><tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC><td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 19, 2004 I didn't mean to start a disagreement. Sorry to all of those whose feathers I may have ruffled. VanessaCraig Dearth <cd39 wrote: I think Ian said it best if you let an animal live out his or her life then eat them when they die well I guess that might be ok BUT>> who would want too.... yuck yuck yuck Craig Vanessa Hodgson [rosestar13]Tuesday, October 19, 2004 9:55 PM Subject: Re: Re: I have a question. By better I meant that if slaughter houses followed the regulations in place by the FDA, at least animals wouldn't basically be torn apart while they were still conscious and go through a great deal of agony before they finally die.fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: guess it all depends on yer definition of better:)if they played mozart in the gas chambers..is it better??sorry..ya'll know by now fraggle is an opinionated lil buggerVanessa Hodgson <rosestar13Oct 18, 2004 7:20 PM Subject: Re: Re: I have a question.<html><body><DIV>I agree that there is no ethical way to slaughter something. However, if slaughter houses followed the regulations in place to protect animals from uneccessary suffering, which they don't, slaughter would be a little more ethical at least. It still wouldn't be ethical, but at least it would make it a little bit better.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Vanessa <BR></DIV><B><I></I></B><DIV><B><I>fraggle <EBbrewpunx</I></B> wrote:</DIV><BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><TT>i'm still perplexed on how you ethically slaughter something?<BR>kinder gentler murder?<BR>*looks confused*<BR><BR>so, if you petted the baby harp seal, and then sang to it as you beat it to death, it would be ok?<BR>if the turks gave the little armenian children candy before they razed there village all would be good?<BR>i think i need to hide under my desk again...<BR>fraggle<BR><BR>There are so many reasons not to eat meat or dairy products besides <BR><BR>the abuse that the animals endure. People that eat meat and dairy <BR><BR>products have higher occurances of cancer, osteoperosis, and many <BR><BR>other nasty potentially deadly health problems. Besides, even if the <BR><BR>animals were raised and slaughtered in a more ethical manner, their <BR><BR>waste would still be polluting the environment. I personally believe <BR><BR>that there isno good reason to take the life of living animal for <BR><BR>food when you can get all the necessary nutrients your body needs <BR><BR>from plant sources. <BR><BR><BR><BR>Vanessa <BR><BR><<BR></TT><BR><BR><TT>To send an email to - </TT> <BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><p><br><br> <br> <br><br><tt>To send an email to - </tt><br><br><br><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --><table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2><tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC><td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 19, 2004 nah its not like that ask any questions you like we are bound to disagree we be all different folks...have different thoughts how does anyone grow er learn without asking questions and discussin things?? cheers fraggle Vanessa Hodgson <rosestar13 Oct 19, 2004 7:53 AM RE: Re: I have a question. <html><body> <DIV>I didn't mean to start a disagreement. Sorry to all of those whose feathers I may have ruffled. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> < Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
