was H. pylori now Scutellaria

[Guest guest]

Yehuda,

 

You are correct, huang qin and ban zhi lian are in the same family (Lamiaceae or

mint). They are also in the same genus, scutellaria, which is a much closer

relationship. There are many scutellarias used in medicine. Scutellaria

lateriflora is a famous one from the US, which I wrote about in my book. I have

seen about a dozen species in my travels in China and am familiar with about 6

species in Western North America (I have used several of them). To my knowledge,

huang qin is the only species that the root is used. Generally the plants in

this genus have very small thin roots so this species (HQ) is, if not unique,

pretty special (botanically speaking).

 

I have a species (sorry I forget which one at the moment) growing on my balcony

from seeds I collected at the Great Wall. It has emerged just recently (we are

finally starting to get some SLIGHTLY warmer weather here in Beijing).

 

Many of the species look very similar and I suspect that there are actually many

species used as ban zhi lian (I'm not sure what is in the literature off-hand).

 

A couple of the species I have used from California/Oregon are pretty bitter and

mighty tasty, more bitter than ban zhi lian, and I would really like to get some

work done on it at some point. I have been using one of them (S. californica)

since the early 90's and suspect that research would put it pretty high on the

list. It will be in the next volume of my book but unfortunately it is not

available commercially, though it is pretty common and easy to cultivate.

However, it is native to mountain slopes, meadows, and stream sides so the

elevation may be important for its potency.

 

In Good health,

Thomas

 

wrote:

>

> Ban Zhi Lian is in the family of Huang Qin to the best of recollection.  

It is a Dui Yao which is often used with bai hua she she cao in formulas that

treat toxic damp heat as in patients with cancer, tumors or undergoing

radiation therapy.

[Guest guest]

Thomas, There is a gentleman, David Valdez I believe, who is doing his

Master's research at SFSU on California native Scute, and specifically their

biochemical similarity to ban zhi lian which has so much literature on its

applications in treatment of various cancers. I don't know what he has published

on the topic yet but when I talked to him he had done the HPLC and found many to

be remarkably similar. He had personally identified and collected all the

species in the state. Quite a feat as you know they can be a dickens to key out.

As people on this list who haven't read your book may not know is that in

Western herbal medicine this is a profound calm spirit herb. In your

translations of Chinese materia medica have you found any applications that

relate to this?Ben

 

 

tag.plantgeek

Wed, 21 Apr 2010 01:38:14 +0000

was H. pylori now Scutellaria

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yehuda,

 

 

 

You are correct, huang qin and ban zhi lian are in the same family (Lamiaceae or

mint). They are also in the same genus, scutellaria, which is a much closer

relationship. There are many scutellarias used in medicine. Scutellaria

lateriflora is a famous one from the US, which I wrote about in my book. I have

seen about a dozen species in my travels in China and am familiar with about 6

species in Western North America (I have used several of them). To my knowledge,

huang qin is the only species that the root is used. Generally the plants in

this genus have very small thin roots so this species (HQ) is, if not unique,

pretty special (botanically speaking).

 

 

 

I have a species (sorry I forget which one at the moment) growing on my balcony

from seeds I collected at the Great Wall. It has emerged just recently (we are

finally starting to get some SLIGHTLY warmer weather here in Beijing).

 

 

 

Many of the species look very similar and I suspect that there are actually many

species used as ban zhi lian (I'm not sure what is in the literature off-hand).

 

 

 

A couple of the species I have used from California/Oregon are pretty bitter and

mighty tasty, more bitter than ban zhi lian, and I would really like to get some

work done on it at some point. I have been using one of them (S. californica)

since the early 90's and suspect that research would put it pretty high on the

list. It will be in the next volume of my book but unfortunately it is not

available commercially, though it is pretty common and easy to cultivate.

However, it is native to mountain slopes, meadows, and stream sides so the

elevation may be important for its potency.

 

 

 

In Good health,

 

Thomas

 

 

 

wrote:

 

>

 

> Ban Zhi Lian is in the family of Huang Qin to the best of recollection. Â

It is a Dui Yao which is often used with bai hua she she cao in formulas that

treat toxic damp heat as in patients with cancer, tumors or undergoing

radiation therapy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Ben,

 

That is extremely interesting to me. I would love to get in contact with Mr.

Valdez, if you have his contact info please ask him if it is ok if you forward

it to me, or you can give him mine and ask him to contact me.

 

I don't remember ever seeing anything in the Chinese literature about a quieting

spirit action, although I will have to take a look. I translated some highlights

of a couple species in the S. lateriflora monograph of my book and I don't

remember ever seeing anything in this vein.

 

Michael, many of the native species are quite different from the

mid-west/eastern species most people use, in fact, their morphology is also

quite different, growing much more like ban zhi lian. They are more bitter and

acrid (significantly so) and I suspect have a much stronger heat

clearing/resolve toxin action as well. I believe they are quite different in

action and there are some significant differences among the native California

species as well. For example, S. california and S. antirrhinoides are quite

similar while S. galericulata and S. bolanderi are similar and I think more like

S. lateriflora (our most commonly used species from the mid-west and east). It

is a fascinating study and I look forward to some day getting back to the area

where I can continue to use these wonderful gems.

 

So, while I don't totally disagree with your premise I am not totally supportive

of it and this is why. I find that the more bitter species, i.e. S. californica

and S. antirrhinoides are less spirit quieting than S. lateriflora, but I think

they are more heat clearing/toxin resolving. Now I could be wrong and others

have reported strong spirit quieting action with these species, so there

certainly is nothing set in stone. I think that in the case of S. lateriflora

being so well understood as a quieting spirit herb speaks to something different

happening than resolving toxin, especially since it is not used so much to

resolve toxin. What do you think?

 

In Good Health,

Thomas

 

 

 

ben zappin <btz23 wrote:

>

> Thomas, There is a gentleman, David Valdez I believe, who is doing his

Master's research at SFSU on California native Scute, and specifically their

biochemical similarity to ban zhi lian which has so much literature on its

applications in treatment of various cancers. I don't know what he has published

on the topic yet but when I talked to him he had done the HPLC and found many to

be remarkably similar. He had personally identified and collected all the

species in the state. Quite a feat as you know they can be a dickens to key out.

> As people on this list who haven't read your book may not know is that in

Western herbal medicine this is a profound calm spirit herb. In your

translations of Chinese materia medica have you found any applications that

relate to this?Ben

[Guest guest]

Hi, yeah I know David, the fellow studying the scutellaria, but I dont think his

last name is Valdez. It may be Garcia or Rodriguez. When I first met him a few

years ago he was very close to Christopher Hobbs. I bet Christopher would have

his contact info.,,Matt Haug LAc