Chai hu = descending?

[Guest guest]

I just happened to be reviewing si ni san in F & S. on the top of pg. 117 they

describe chai hu:

" Because the condition is due to constraint and stagnation of the qi mechanism,

its primary focus is to regulate the qi by venting heat and releasing

constraint. Chai hu performs both of these functions well and is therefore the

chief herb. through it's action on the lesser yang, it facilitates both the

ascent of clear yang and the descent of turbid yin, as explained in the

Explanation of the classic of materia medica: Chai hu is clear and light,

ascending and spreading out the GB qi. when the GB thrusts outward, the other 12

organs follow its dissipating transformation. thus is is able to disperse any

clumped qi in the epigastrium, abdomen, intestine and stomach. "

 

Anyway Jason-I thought you might appreciate the reference to descending the

turbid. Hope this helps.

 

 

Cara

On Apr 5, 2010, at 9:30 AM, wrote:

 

> Hhuuhh??? Unless I missed a crucial email, I have yet to see any source

(provided by John or anyone else) that states chai hu is descending. Which is

BTW the original point in this thread. If I missed it please re-send this.

>

> Stephan W. not sure of your question / confusion, I was just quoting straight

from ZJY which of course you brought up, no? Please clarify the confusion.

>

> -

>

>

On Behalf Of stephen woodley

> Sunday, April 04, 2010 6:59 PM

>

> RE: Bitter (con't)

>

> Since Kokko is back in the mix and provided a source - I'll step

> back for the time being, although it is fun

>

> confused and curious on one point, though -

>

> Jasen:

>

> BTW – Bitter and warming medicinal are ren shen, fu zi, gan

> jiang, wu zhu

> yu and rou gui. Certainly not descending herbs.

>

> Ren shen = sweet

>

> Fu Zi = acrid

>

> Gan Jiang = acrid

>

> Wu zhu yu = acrid

>

> Rou gui = ? don’t see that in SNBCJ

>

> Gui = acrid

>

> Didn't all of this start with an insomnia case 3 weeks ago? If I

> had known that teasing Kokko would cause this...

>

> Stephen Woodley LAc

>

> www.shanghanlunseminars.com

>

> --

>

>

[Guest guest]

Cara,

 

Thanks for the post, I am also aware of this passage in Scheid and Bensky.

However if we look close it says, " Chai hu is clear and light, ascending and

spreading out the GB qi " it only FACILITATES the descent of turbid yin. This

is the exact mechanism I outlined in a post last week and is no different

than mechanism of action for formulas such as Bu Zhong Yi Qi Tang. That is,

when one raises the clear yang it *facilitates* the descent of turbid yin.

 

This passage is NOT saying that chai hu is fundamentally descending. It is

saying chai hu has a secondary result of descending turbid yin. This is well

known action of most ascending yang herbs. This also should be very clear

from reading the whole description of si ni san. Actually this is clear here

because after this " facilitation " quote it spells it out by saying, " Chai

hu is clear and light, ascending and spreading... "

 

-Jason

 

 

 

 

 

On Behalf Of cara

Monday, April 05, 2010 8:31 AM

 

Re: Chai hu = descending?

 

I just happened to be reviewing si ni san in F & S. on the top of pg. 117

they describe chai hu:

" Because the condition is due to constraint and stagnation of the qi

mechanism, its primary focus is to regulate the qi by venting heat and

releasing constraint. Chai hu performs both of these functions well and is

therefore the chief herb. through it's action on the lesser yang, it

facilitates both the ascent of clear yang and the descent of turbid yin, as

explained in the Explanation of the classic of materia medica: Chai hu is

clear and light, ascending and spreading out the GB qi. when the GB thrusts

outward, the other 12 organs follow its dissipating transformation. thus is

is able to disperse any clumped qi in the epigastrium, abdomen, intestine

and stomach. "

 

Anyway Jason-I thought you might appreciate the reference to descending the

turbid. Hope this helps.

 

 

Cara

On Apr 5, 2010, at 9:30 AM, wrote:

 

e 04/05/10 00:32:00

[Guest guest]

yes- I saw that too. that is different than actually descending. I almost didn't

post it for that reason, but since there was a remote possibility that it would

be helpful to you, I went ahead....

 

Cara O. Frank, R. OM

Six Fishes

China Herb Company Chinese Herb Department

Tai Sophia Institute

www.carafrank.com

215-772-0770

 

On Apr 5, 2010, at 10:55 AM, wrote:

 

> Cara,

>

> Thanks for the post, I am also aware of this passage in Scheid and Bensky.

> However if we look close it says, " Chai hu is clear and light, ascending and

> spreading out the GB qi " it only FACILITATES the descent of turbid yin. This

> is the exact mechanism I outlined in a post last week and is no different

> than mechanism of action for formulas such as Bu Zhong Yi Qi Tang. That is,

> when one raises the clear yang it *facilitates* the descent of turbid yin.

>

> This passage is NOT saying that chai hu is fundamentally descending. It is

> saying chai hu has a secondary result of descending turbid yin. This is well

> known action of most ascending yang herbs. This also should be very clear

> from reading the whole description of si ni san. Actually this is clear here

> because after this " facilitation " quote it spells it out by saying, " Chai

> hu is clear and light, ascending and spreading... "

>

> -Jason

>

>

>

> On Behalf Of cara

> Monday, April 05, 2010 8:31 AM

>

> Re: Chai hu = descending?

>

> I just happened to be reviewing si ni san in F & S. on the top of pg. 117

> they describe chai hu:

> " Because the condition is due to constraint and stagnation of the qi

> mechanism, its primary focus is to regulate the qi by venting heat and

> releasing constraint. Chai hu performs both of these functions well and is

> therefore the chief herb. through it's action on the lesser yang, it

> facilitates both the ascent of clear yang and the descent of turbid yin, as

> explained in the Explanation of the classic of materia medica: Chai hu is

> clear and light, ascending and spreading out the GB qi. when the GB thrusts

> outward, the other 12 organs follow its dissipating transformation. thus is

> is able to disperse any clumped qi in the epigastrium, abdomen, intestine

> and stomach. "

>

> Anyway Jason-I thought you might appreciate the reference to descending the

> turbid. Hope this helps.

>

> Cara

> On Apr 5, 2010, at 9:30 AM, wrote:

>

> e 04/05/10 00:32:00

>

>