Nei Jing-style herbalism

[Guest guest]

It's an exciting conundrum. While the Nei Jing may reference

herbalism here and there, clearly it is not an herbal text. How might

one apply an extended (i.e. full channel system) Nei Jing-style

thought process to herbal practice?

 

This has been privately on my mind for some time, as I recently spent

a few years very focused on herbal strategies for txing cancer. I

found that I really could not do justice to addressing the

pathomechanisms of cancer without focusing on the channel divergences

and luo vessels - and thus I needed to find ways to treat, herbally,

in these terms. This forced me to explore territory that was, as far

as I knew, uncharted-- and so I was mostly keeping it to myself, not

mentioning publicly my nascent theoretical framework for prescribing

herbs until it could develop further.

 

Then, motivated by Steve Alpern's very thorough NAET response post, I

checked out his website and realized, holy crap, this guy is basically

covering the territory... I was very impressed, and even more curious.

 

So Steve, now you have both Jason and myself very interested. I do

hope that we can create here a dialog that is encouraging of each

other's explorations, and search for bridges between our current

realms of understanding. I freely admit that you are further along

than I am in understanding a paradigm that I do not yet feel fully

able to grasp, embody or practice. The same is true for Jason, who

has knowledge that exceeds my own in many areas. I bring to the

discussion my own areas of study and practical experience, which may

in some places may be different from your own, and may uncover

territory that is new to you, too.

 

A concern is that because what Steve (and I) are doing, in exploring

the application of a more complete channel theory to herbal practice,

is " non-standard herbalism, " it may be shot down before it even has a

chance to try its wings. And yet, based on classical principles,

something valuable may be emerging here. I for one would be delighted

to discuss this further, with as much clinical specificity as we can

muster, but more in the manner of a community art (or science) project

than an ad hoc firing squad. Even " correcting " each other can be done

as an offering of respect for each others' pursuit of excellence. We

can even disagree as a way of adding to, rather than subtracting from,

each other's paradigms. A community of clinicians and scholars might

produce great works this way.

 

(Do you ever wonder what it was like behind the scenes among the folks

who wrote the Nei Jing-- was there terrible in-fighting, lots of ad

hominem attacks? Was anyone assassinated before the project's

completion? What was their process like, I wonder? How did they

finally end up coming together?)

 

Thea Elijah

[Guest guest]

Neijing style herbal medicine = Shanghan Zabing Lun style medicine.

Zhang Zhong-jing uses the theory of the Neijing five flavors and six

channels (biao-ben-zhong qi, kai-he-shu, etc) quite extensively in his

writing. FWIW

 

-Steve

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Mar 7, 2010, at 5:42 AM, Thea Elijah <parkinglot

wrote:

 

> It's an exciting conundrum. While the Nei Jing may reference

> herbalism here and there, clearly it is not an herbal text. How might

> one apply an extended (i.e. full channel system) Nei Jing-style

> thought process to herbal practice?

>

> This has been privately on my mind for some time, as I recently spent

> a few years very focused on herbal strategies for txing cancer. I

> found that I really could not do justice to addressing the

> pathomechanisms of cancer without focusing on the channel divergences

> and luo vessels - and thus I needed to find ways to treat, herbally,

> in these terms. This forced me to explore territory that was, as far

> as I knew, uncharted-- and so I was mostly keeping it to myself, not

> mentioning publicly my nascent theoretical framework for prescribing

> herbs until it could develop further.

>

> Then, motivated by Steve Alpern's very thorough NAET response post, I

> checked out his website and realized, holy crap, this guy is basically

> covering the territory... I was very impressed, and even more curious.

>

> So Steve, now you have both Jason and myself very interested. I do

> hope that we can create here a dialog that is encouraging of each

> other's explorations, and search for bridges between our current

> realms of understanding. I freely admit that you are further along

> than I am in understanding a paradigm that I do not yet feel fully

> able to grasp, embody or practice. The same is true for Jason, who

> has knowledge that exceeds my own in many areas. I bring to the

> discussion my own areas of study and practical experience, which may

> in some places may be different from your own, and may uncover

> territory that is new to you, too.

>

> A concern is that because what Steve (and I) are doing, in exploring

> the application of a more complete channel theory to herbal practice,

> is " non-standard herbalism, " it may be shot down before it even has a

> chance to try its wings. And yet, based on classical principles,

> something valuable may be emerging here. I for one would be delighted

> to discuss this further, with as much clinical specificity as we can

> muster, but more in the manner of a community art (or science) project

> than an ad hoc firing squad. Even " correcting " each other can be done

> as an offering of respect for each others' pursuit of excellence. We

> can even disagree as a way of adding to, rather than subtracting from,

> each other's paradigms. A community of clinicians and scholars might

> produce great works this way.

>

> (Do you ever wonder what it was like behind the scenes among the folks

> who wrote the Nei Jing-- was there terrible in-fighting, lots of ad

> hominem attacks? Was anyone assassinated before the project's

> completion? What was their process like, I wonder? How did they

> finally end up coming together?)

>

> Thea Elijah

>

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Stephen,

This would be a fascinating subject in and of it self, focusing on the issue

of context. Zhang Ji's use of the six channels is a variant of the six channel

matrix in the Su Wen/Ling Shu. If we look at the associated signs and symptoms

and compare the two texts, they are clearly different. . .some food for thought.

..

 

 

On Mar 7, 2010, at 12:35 PM, Stephen Bonzak wrote:

 

> Neijing style herbal medicine = Shanghan Zabing Lun style medicine.

> Zhang Zhong-jing uses the theory of the Neijing five flavors and six

> channels (biao-ben-zhong qi, kai-he-shu, etc) quite extensively in his

> writing. FWIW

>

> -Steve

>

> Sent from my iPhone

>

> On Mar 7, 2010, at 5:42 AM, Thea Elijah <parkinglot

> wrote:

>

> > It's an exciting conundrum. While the Nei Jing may reference

> > herbalism here and there, clearly it is not an herbal text. How might

> > one apply an extended (i.e. full channel system) Nei Jing-style

> > thought process to herbal practice?

> >

> > This has been privately on my mind for some time, as I recently spent

> > a few years very focused on herbal strategies for txing cancer. I

> > found that I really could not do justice to addressing the

> > pathomechanisms of cancer without focusing on the channel divergences

> > and luo vessels - and thus I needed to find ways to treat, herbally,

> > in these terms. This forced me to explore territory that was, as far

> > as I knew, uncharted-- and so I was mostly keeping it to myself, not

> > mentioning publicly my nascent theoretical framework for prescribing

> > herbs until it could develop further.

> >

> > Then, motivated by Steve Alpern's very thorough NAET response post, I

> > checked out his website and realized, holy crap, this guy is basically

> > covering the territory... I was very impressed, and even more curious.

> >

> > So Steve, now you have both Jason and myself very interested. I do

> > hope that we can create here a dialog that is encouraging of each

> > other's explorations, and search for bridges between our current

> > realms of understanding. I freely admit that you are further along

> > than I am in understanding a paradigm that I do not yet feel fully

> > able to grasp, embody or practice. The same is true for Jason, who

> > has knowledge that exceeds my own in many areas. I bring to the

> > discussion my own areas of study and practical experience, which may

> > in some places may be different from your own, and may uncover

> > territory that is new to you, too.

> >

> > A concern is that because what Steve (and I) are doing, in exploring

> > the application of a more complete channel theory to herbal practice,

> > is " non-standard herbalism, " it may be shot down before it even has a

> > chance to try its wings. And yet, based on classical principles,

> > something valuable may be emerging here. I for one would be delighted

> > to discuss this further, with as much clinical specificity as we can

> > muster, but more in the manner of a community art (or science) project

> > than an ad hoc firing squad. Even " correcting " each other can be done

> > as an offering of respect for each others' pursuit of excellence. We

> > can even disagree as a way of adding to, rather than subtracting from,

> > each other's paradigms. A community of clinicians and scholars might

> > produce great works this way.

> >

> > (Do you ever wonder what it was like behind the scenes among the folks

> > who wrote the Nei Jing-- was there terrible in-fighting, lots of ad

> > hominem attacks? Was anyone assassinated before the project's

> > completion? What was their process like, I wonder? How did they

> > finally end up coming together?)

> >

> > Thea Elijah

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Stephen, Z'ev and all

 

Stephen B:

Zhang Zhong-jing uses the theory of the Neijing five flavors

 

Stephen W:

Agreed, the formula architecture conforms to the 5 flavors from Suwen 22

I think also that the architecture conforms to that delineated in Suwen

74

 

Z'ev:

If we look at the associated signs and symptoms and compare the two

texts, they are clearly different

 

Stephen W:

Agreed, even the timeline is " fudged " a little by ZZJ. However, and

correct me if I'm wrong Stephen, I think that more the point is how

herbs are applied is based on theory from NeiJing regarding flavors and

treatments.

 

6 conformations is an extension of 5 phase theory with an acknowledgment

of dry heat versus humid heat. Dry heat = shaoyin imperial fire - Humid

heat = shaoyang ministerial fire. The use of the 5 flavor model fits.

 

Stephen Woodley LAc

www.shanghanlunseminars.com

 

 

--

http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail...

[Guest guest]

Stephen and Stephen,

Correct, Zhang Ji uses the Neijing five flavors, and according to Arnaud

Versluys, the " Nineteen Lines on Pathology " from Su Wen 74.

What is often forgotten is that although both the Nei Jing and Nan Jing's

main modalities were acumoxatherapy, the theoretical foundations of internal

medicine were developed from the same texts. Before the Shang Han Lun internal

medicine was largely a disorder/symptom based model. Paul Unschuld has written

extensively on this.

 

 

On Mar 7, 2010, at 4:43 PM, stephen woodley wrote:

 

> Stephen, Z'ev and all

>

> Stephen B:

> Zhang Zhong-jing uses the theory of the Neijing five flavors

>

> Stephen W:

> Agreed, the formula architecture conforms to the 5 flavors from Suwen 22

> I think also that the architecture conforms to that delineated in Suwen

> 74

>

> Z'ev:

> If we look at the associated signs and symptoms and compare the two

> texts, they are clearly different

>

> Stephen W:

> Agreed, even the timeline is " fudged " a little by ZZJ. However, and

> correct me if I'm wrong Stephen, I think that more the point is how

> herbs are applied is based on theory from NeiJing regarding flavors and

> treatments.

>

> 6 conformations is an extension of 5 phase theory with an acknowledgment

> of dry heat versus humid heat. Dry heat = shaoyin imperial fire - Humid

> heat = shaoyang ministerial fire. The use of the 5 flavor model fits.

>

> Stephen Woodley LAc

> www.shanghanlunseminars.com

>

> --

> http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail...

>

>

 

 

Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

San Diego, Ca. 92122

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thea,

 

 

As you may know, the act of trying to combine Acupuncture theory and herbal

theory is not new, and actually has a long history. From what I can tell from

Unschuld’s research, the process of combing the two theories started in the

1100’s , in the song dynasty of Neo-Confucianism. It was during this time that

scholar physicians tried to design a medical system that was “interdependent

and interrelated within one single conceptual system.â€Â 

 

 

Unschuld writes, “To this end, it was necessary to combine the subtly

elaborated theory of how the organism was structured and how its functions could

be influenced by certain drug qualities- the basis of which was supplied by the

Huang Di Nei Jing- with the pragmatic values of therapeutic practice as it had

been gathered in a centuries-old tradition and reflected in the Ben Cao and

prescription literature.â€

 

 

There was this “urge for ideological unity, that is, the tendency to integrate

the hitherto rather pragmatic use of drugs [as seen in the Taoist Ben Cao

tradition] into the theories of systemic correspondence [the theories of yin/

yang and 5 elements of the Confucian Nei Jing]â€.

 

 

Basically, even though the early works of the Ben Cao, materia medica, wrote

about an herbs thermal dynamics, flavour and symptoms/ diseases that it could

treat,these early works did not talk about what channel the herb entered or why

the herb actually worked. The later scholars then tried to combine the theories

of the human bodies physiology, as known through the 5 element theory, with the

knowledge known about the conditions that the herbs treated. This was a new

territory and was met with a lot of resistance, many mistakes were made, and the

process took a long time to complete. 

 

 

When we look in an herbal text, like Chen and Chen, and can see that Chuan Xiong

enters the Liver, Gall Bladder, and pericardium channels, it is good to

understand that this very idea was a process that took hundreds of years to

develop and accept as the “normâ€, and that this process only started to

happen around 1100 AD or so. Before that time Chuan Xiong would have just been

listed as being something like; acrid, warm, and non-toxic, treating things like

like headache, hypertonicity of the sinews, blood block and infertility.

I can only imagine the depth of knowledge and " unexplored terrain " we may come

across if one could actually have access to the massive amounts of texts

available in the original chinese. I am so envious of people like Eric when he

talks about reading original text books from 800 years ago, stored away in  a

medical library somewhere in Beijing. To me, that is the coolest thing in the

world! Perhaps, what we think we are making up for the first time, already has a

long history of been thought of. The only way we can know is to read many books

in the original Chinese, or rely on others to translate or interpret for us.

 

 

Best

Trevor

--- On Sun, 3/7/10, Thea Elijah <parkinglot wrote:

 

Thea Elijah <parkinglot

Nei Jing-style herbalism

 

Received: Sunday, March 7, 2010, 6:42 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's an exciting conundrum. While the Nei Jing may reference

 

herbalism here and there, clearly it is not an herbal text. How might

 

one apply an extended (i.e. full channel system) Nei Jing-style

 

thought process to herbal practice?

 

 

 

This has been privately on my mind for some time, as I recently spent

 

a few years very focused on herbal strategies for txing cancer. I

 

found that I really could not do justice to addressing the

 

pathomechanisms of cancer without focusing on the channel divergences

 

and luo vessels - and thus I needed to find ways to treat, herbally,

 

in these terms. This forced me to explore territory that was, as far

 

as I knew, uncharted-- and so I was mostly keeping it to myself, not

 

mentioning publicly my nascent theoretical framework for prescribing

 

herbs until it could develop further.

 

 

 

Then, motivated by Steve Alpern's very thorough NAET response post, I

 

checked out his website and realized, holy crap, this guy is basically

 

covering the territory... I was very impressed, and even more curious.

 

 

 

So Steve, now you have both Jason and myself very interested. I do

 

hope that we can create here a dialog that is encouraging of each

 

other's explorations, and search for bridges between our current

 

realms of understanding. I freely admit that you are further along

 

than I am in understanding a paradigm that I do not yet feel fully

 

able to grasp, embody or practice. The same is true for Jason, who

 

has knowledge that exceeds my own in many areas. I bring to the

 

discussion my own areas of study and practical experience, which may

 

in some places may be different from your own, and may uncover

 

territory that is new to you, too.

 

 

 

A concern is that because what Steve (and I) are doing, in exploring

 

the application of a more complete channel theory to herbal practice,

 

is " non-standard herbalism, " it may be shot down before it even has a

 

chance to try its wings. And yet, based on classical principles,

 

something valuable may be emerging here. I for one would be delighted

 

to discuss this further, with as much clinical specificity as we can

 

muster, but more in the manner of a community art (or science) project

 

than an ad hoc firing squad. Even " correcting " each other can be done

 

as an offering of respect for each others' pursuit of excellence. We

 

can even disagree as a way of adding to, rather than subtracting from,

 

each other's paradigms. A community of clinicians and scholars might

 

produce great works this way.

 

 

 

(Do you ever wonder what it was like behind the scenes among the folks

 

who wrote the Nei Jing-- was there terrible in-fighting, lots of ad

 

hominem attacks? Was anyone assassinated before the project's

 

completion? What was their process like, I wonder? How did they

 

finally end up coming together?)

 

 

 

Thea Elijah

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

________________

Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your

favourite sites. Download it now

http://ca.toolbar..

 

 

[Guest guest]

There's a missing link....

What happened between the materia medica of Shen nong ben cao jing

to develop the formulas (heb combinations) in the Shang han za bing lun?

 

Are there any formula texts available today that pre-date Zhang Ji's work?

Tang ye jing?

 

Anything in the Ma wang dui tomb discoveries form 1973?

 

Where did Zhang Ji get all of those amazing formulas that he compiled and

organized based on the 6 conformations?

 

K

 

 

 

On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 8:09 PM, <zrosenbe wrote:

 

> Stephen and Stephen,

> Correct, Zhang Ji uses the Neijing five flavors, and according to Arnaud

> Versluys, the " Nineteen Lines on Pathology " from Su Wen 74.

> What is often forgotten is that although both the Nei Jing and Nan

> Jing's main modalities were acumoxatherapy, the theoretical foundations of

> internal medicine were developed from the same texts. Before the Shang Han

> Lun internal medicine was largely a disorder/symptom based model. Paul

> Unschuld has written extensively on this.

>

>

> On Mar 7, 2010, at 4:43 PM, stephen woodley wrote:

>

> > Stephen, Z'ev and all

> >

> > Stephen B:

> > Zhang Zhong-jing uses the theory of the Neijing five flavors

> >

> > Stephen W:

> > Agreed, the formula architecture conforms to the 5 flavors from Suwen 22

> > I think also that the architecture conforms to that delineated in Suwen

> > 74

> >

> > Z'ev:

> > If we look at the associated signs and symptoms and compare the two

> > texts, they are clearly different

> >

> > Stephen W:

> > Agreed, even the timeline is " fudged " a little by ZZJ. However, and

> > correct me if I'm wrong Stephen, I think that more the point is how

> > herbs are applied is based on theory from NeiJing regarding flavors and

> > treatments.

> >

> > 6 conformations is an extension of 5 phase theory with an acknowledgment

> > of dry heat versus humid heat. Dry heat = shaoyin imperial fire - Humid

> > heat = shaoyang ministerial fire. The use of the 5 flavor model fits.

> >

> > Stephen Woodley LAc

> > www.shanghanlunseminars.com

> >

> > --

> > http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail...

> >

> >

>

>

> Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

> Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

> San Diego, Ca. 92122

 

[Guest guest]

On Mar 7, 2010, at 4:49 PM, wrote:

 

> Stephen,

> This would be a fascinating subject in and of it self, focusing on

> the issue of context. Zhang Ji's use of the six channels is a

> variant of the six channel matrix in the Su Wen/Ling Shu. If we

> look at the associated signs and symptoms and compare the two texts,

> they are clearly different. . .some food for thought. .

>

>

 

My particular interest here is herbal theory which pertains to the

channel divergences and luo vessels.

 

Thea Elijah

[Guest guest]

John,

 

Yes, there are texts predating Zhang Ji's in which several formulae are

mentioned and discussed that inspired Zhang to write up 'his'.

 

Wang Shumin's article 'Tangye jingfa: A lost text in the Hanshu bibliography'

(published in 'Medieval ) discusses these texts, and one of

them, called 'Fuxingjue zangfu yongyao fa yao' I have translated for the Chinese

Medicine Database (cm-db.com). It is sometimes ascribed to Tao Hongjing but we

don't know who the author(s) is/are.

 

Revealing and fascinating stuff!

 

N. Herman

 

<johnkokko wrote:

>

> There's a missing link....

> What happened between the materia medica of Shen nong ben cao jing

> to develop the formulas (heb combinations) in the Shang han za bing lun?

>

> Are there any formula texts available today that pre-date Zhang Ji's work?

> Tang ye jing?

>

> Anything in the Ma wang dui tomb discoveries form 1973?

>

> Where did Zhang Ji get all of those amazing formulas that he compiled and

> organized based on the 6 conformations?

>

> K

>

>

>

> On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 8:09 PM, <zrosenbe wrote:

>

> > Stephen and Stephen,

> > Correct, Zhang Ji uses the Neijing five flavors, and according to Arnaud

> > Versluys, the " Nineteen Lines on Pathology " from Su Wen 74.

> > What is often forgotten is that although both the Nei Jing and Nan

> > Jing's main modalities were acumoxatherapy, the theoretical foundations of

> > internal medicine were developed from the same texts. Before the Shang Han

> > Lun internal medicine was largely a disorder/symptom based model. Paul

> > Unschuld has written extensively on this.

> >

> >

> > On Mar 7, 2010, at 4:43 PM, stephen woodley wrote:

> >

> > > Stephen, Z'ev and all

> > >

> > > Stephen B:

> > > Zhang Zhong-jing uses the theory of the Neijing five flavors

> > >

> > > Stephen W:

> > > Agreed, the formula architecture conforms to the 5 flavors from Suwen 22

> > > I think also that the architecture conforms to that delineated in Suwen

> > > 74

> > >

> > > Z'ev:

> > > If we look at the associated signs and symptoms and compare the two

> > > texts, they are clearly different

> > >

> > > Stephen W:

> > > Agreed, even the timeline is " fudged " a little by ZZJ. However, and

> > > correct me if I'm wrong Stephen, I think that more the point is how

> > > herbs are applied is based on theory from NeiJing regarding flavors and

> > > treatments.

> > >

> > > 6 conformations is an extension of 5 phase theory with an acknowledgment

> > > of dry heat versus humid heat. Dry heat = shaoyin imperial fire - Humid

> > > heat = shaoyang ministerial fire. The use of the 5 flavor model fits.

> > >

> > > Stephen Woodley LAc

> > > www.shanghanlunseminars.com

> > >

> > > --

> > > http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail...

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

> > Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

> > San Diego, Ca. 92122

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Kokko-

 

Didn't you answer your own question? The Tangye Jing has many of the

main conformation formulas that ZZJ uses. You can read the text at

the Database.

 

-Steve

 

Stephen Bonzak, L.Ac., Dipl. O.M.

http://www.health-traditions.com

sbonzak

773-470-6994

 

 

 

On Mar 8, 2010, at 12:01 AM, wrote:

 

> There's a missing link....

> What happened between the materia medica of Shen nong ben cao jing

> to develop the formulas (heb combinations) in the Shang han za bing

> lun?

>

> Are there any formula texts available today that pre-date Zhang

> Ji's work?

> Tang ye jing?

>

> Anything in the Ma wang dui tomb discoveries form 1973?

>

> Where did Zhang Ji get all of those amazing formulas that he

> compiled and

> organized based on the 6 conformations?

>

> K

>

> On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 8:09 PM,

> <zrosenbe wrote:

>

> > Stephen and Stephen,

> > Correct, Zhang Ji uses the Neijing five flavors, and according to

> Arnaud

> > Versluys, the " Nineteen Lines on Pathology " from Su Wen 74.

> > What is often forgotten is that although both the Nei Jing and Nan

> > Jing's main modalities were acumoxatherapy, the theoretical

> foundations of

> > internal medicine were developed from the same texts. Before the

> Shang Han

> > Lun internal medicine was largely a disorder/symptom based model.

> Paul

> > Unschuld has written extensively on this.

> >

> >

> > On Mar 7, 2010, at 4:43 PM, stephen woodley wrote:

> >

> > > Stephen, Z'ev and all

> > >

> > > Stephen B:

> > > Zhang Zhong-jing uses the theory of the Neijing five flavors

> > >

> > > Stephen W:

> > > Agreed, the formula architecture conforms to the 5 flavors from

> Suwen 22

> > > I think also that the architecture conforms to that delineated

> in Suwen

> > > 74

> > >

> > > Z'ev:

> > > If we look at the associated signs and symptoms and compare the

> two

> > > texts, they are clearly different

> > >

> > > Stephen W:

> > > Agreed, even the timeline is " fudged " a little by ZZJ. However,

> and

> > > correct me if I'm wrong Stephen, I think that more the point is

> how

> > > herbs are applied is based on theory from NeiJing regarding

> flavors and

> > > treatments.

> > >

> > > 6 conformations is an extension of 5 phase theory with an

> acknowledgment

> > > of dry heat versus humid heat. Dry heat = shaoyin imperial fire

> - Humid

> > > heat = shaoyang ministerial fire. The use of the 5 flavor model

> fits.

> > >

> > > Stephen Woodley LAc

> > > www.shanghanlunseminars.com

> > >

> > > --

> > > http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail...

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

> > Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

> > San Diego, Ca. 92122

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

, Thea Elijah <parkinglot wrote:

 

> My particular interest here is herbal theory which pertains to the

> channel divergences and luo vessels.

 

Any information on a topic like that would come long after the classical period.

Herbal medicine and channel theory only really started becoming integrated after

the Song dynasty, you probably wouldn't find much that was over 800-1000 years

old.

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

Thea wrote:

(Do you ever wonder what it was like behind the scenes among the folks

who wrote the Nei Jing-- was there terrible in-fighting, lots of ad

hominem attacks? Was anyone assassinated before the project's

completion? What was their process like, I wonder? How did they

finally end up coming together?)

 

K: my guess is that someone like the Qin emperor commissioned a group of

scholars to compile what they deemed worthy of inclusion into the Huang di

Nei jing Su wen from an array of writings spanning a few hundred years. The

rest was probably burned. Didn't the Qin emperor call himself the second

coming of the " yellow emperor " ? He wanted all knowledge to be written down

in one language, all under heaven. He re-wrote history and burned the

traces of the past.

 

Were there any assassinations before the project's completion?

Yes... it was called the Warring States period in history.

 

K

 

 

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 2:51 PM, smilinglotus <smilinglotus wrote:

 

>

>

>

>

> --- In

<%40>,

> Thea Elijah <parkinglot wrote:

>

> > My particular interest here is herbal theory which pertains to the

> > channel divergences and luo vessels.

>

> Any information on a topic like that would come long after the classical

> period. Herbal medicine and channel theory only really started becoming

> integrated after the Song dynasty, you probably wouldn't find much that was

> over 800-1000 years old.

>

> Eric

>

>

>

 

 

 

--

 

 

""

 

 

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