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(Shen = Spirit

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Group,

 

As stated previously I think many read into Chinese medicine terms (such as shen

and ming) superimposing our beliefs onto the passage instead of letting the

passage tell us what it really means. Of course different interpretations are

what make the world go around. However, I would like to refernce and quote from

a great article, An axis of efficacy by Chace and Bensky.

It presents commentary and interpretations from some famous Nei Jing lines

discussing things such as ¡°spirit.¡± One line for example is, ¡°The crude

attend to the form, the superior attend to the spirit.¡± Many in the west love

to take this passage and point out the spiritual implications. However

historically this is probably not accurate.

 

For example, ¡°Most commentators and the descendant texts within the Nei Jing

itself interpret spirit in terms of the qi and blood or the correct qi. Ling Shu

3.1 states ¡°That the superior attend to the spirit means that they attend to

the patient¡¯s surplus or insufficiency of qi and blood, and this enables them

to tonify or drain. It goes on to explain that, at least in this context, ¡®the

spirit is correct qi¡¯¡­ Lish shu-18 links the spirit to the blood. ¡®The blood

is the spirit qi.¡¯ Etc. etc.

 

So this is only one point of view, but it represents a major consensus. This is

the advantage of actually reading commentaries instead of just assuming that

there must be something spiritual (spirit with a big ¡°S¡±) because a word that

we relate to spiritual (shen / spirit) is used.

 

The rest of the article is well worth reading. It talks about spirit as paying

attention to small details, the focus of one¡¯s mind, as a knack or capacity for

efficacy etc. etc. It really demystifies much of this capital ¡°S¡± spirit stuff

through academic rigor (actually reading Chinese commentaries) instead of just

reading it the way we want to read it.

 

 

Hope this is helpful,

 

-

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2010/3/1

 

>

>

> For example, “Most commentators and the descendant texts within the Nei

> Jing itself interpret spirit in terms of the qi and blood or the correct qi.

> Ling Shu 3.1 states “That the superior attend to the spirit means that they

> attend to the patient’s surplus or insufficiency of qi and blood, and this

> enables them to tonify or drain. It goes on to explain that, at least in

> this context, ‘the spirit is correct qi’… Lish shu-18 links the spirit to

> the blood. ‘The blood is the spirit qi.’ Etc. etc.

>

This is closer to my understanding of shen too, that it is the outcome of

healthy and harmonized qi and blood.

 

In tongue diagnosis we talk about the shen of the tongue. This of course has

nothing to do with the tongue's immortal soul or consciousness, but a sense

of aliveness.

 

Tongue diagnosis provides a transferable skill too, if you need to buy fish.

Old fish lacks shen. It is flat and flaccid in shape. Its color lacks

vibrancy, and its sheen has no twinkle.

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

http://twitter.com/algancao

 

 

 

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Perhaps it would be good to think of " shen " as " presence " - leading towards

a more ideal of balance. " Ming " is the life one has/leads.

 

 

 

 

On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Al Stone <al wrote:

 

> 2010/3/1

>

> >

> >

> > For example, “Most commentators and the descendant texts within the Nei

> > Jing itself interpret spirit in terms of the qi and blood or the correct

> qi.

> > Ling Shu 3.1 states “That the superior attend to the spirit means that

> they

> > attend to the patient’s surplus or insufficiency of qi and blood, and

> this

> > enables them to tonify or drain. It goes on to explain that, at least in

> > this context, ‘the spirit is correct qi’… Lish shu-18 links the spirit to

> > the blood. ‘The blood is the spirit qi.’ Etc. etc.

> >

> This is closer to my understanding of shen too, that it is the outcome of

> healthy and harmonized qi and blood.

>

> In tongue diagnosis we talk about the shen of the tongue. This of course

> has

> nothing to do with the tongue's immortal soul or consciousness, but a sense

> of aliveness.

>

> Tongue diagnosis provides a transferable skill too, if you need to buy

> fish.

> Old fish lacks shen. It is flat and flaccid in shape. Its color lacks

> vibrancy, and its sheen has no twinkle.

>

> --

> , DAOM

> Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

> http://twitter.com/algancao

>

>

>

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So this is only one point of view, but it represents a major consensus.

 

Lonny: Sure, the majority view has always been materialistic and focused on the

surface of things. Even Bao Pu Zi recognized this @200CE in the introduction to

his Nei Bian. Nonetheless, that doesn't stop those interested in the deeper

meaning of things from pressing on into the subtlties.

 

J: (from previous post) Maybe I am missing something here, but here's my take...

 

 

Lonny: I'd say missing rather a lot. I'm composing a response and will post it

by week end.

 

Regards, Lonny

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> >

>

> In tongue diagnosis we talk about the shen of the tongue. This of course has

> nothing to do with the tongue's immortal soul or consciousness, but a sense

> of aliveness.

 

Lonny " Actually, it is recognized that there is only One light and when you look

at the shen of the tongue or the eyes you are diagnosing the degree to which the

vehicle, the body, is transparent to transmit this one light. You are literally

diagnosing the degree to which consciousness is embodied. Realization of this

one light changes one's definition of what a " sense of aliveness " is.

 

Excellent point.

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Please provide a Chinese reference for this idea, if you are in fact

referring to Chinese medicine here. I personally have never read anything

about " only one light. (or) consciousness is embodied " in Chinese. What are

the characters for this? But I agree we are talking about an " sense of

aliveness " but this is not anything overly profound my opinion.

 

 

 

-Jason

 

 

 

 

On Behalf Of Lonny

Tuesday, March 02, 2010 5:44 AM

 

Re: (Shen = " S " pirit

 

 

 

 

 

 

> >

>

> In tongue diagnosis we talk about the shen of the tongue. This of course

has

> nothing to do with the tongue's immortal soul or consciousness, but a

sense

> of aliveness.

 

Lonny " Actually, it is recognized that there is only One light and when you

look at the shen of the tongue or the eyes you are diagnosing the degree to

which the vehicle, the body, is transparent to transmit this one light. You

are literally diagnosing the degree to which consciousness is embodied.

Realization of this one light changes one's definition of what a " sense of

aliveness " is.

 

Excellent point.

 

 

 

 

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Jason:

" But I agree we are talking about an " sense of

aliveness " but this is not anything overly profound my opinion.

"

 

Lonny: Uhuh. How could one's " sense of aliveness " possibly be profound?

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Yes, but I think many think of " destiny " as preordained, when it is not.

 

On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 4:32 AM, Lonny <revolution wrote:

 

> " Ming " is the life one has/leads.

>

> Lonny: Which, of course determines one's destiny.

>

>

>

> ---

>

> Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including a

> practitioner's directory and a moderated discussion forum.

>

>

>

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Yes, but I think many think of " destiny " as preordained, when it is not.

 

Lonny: Yes, you are correct. I make a distinction between the English words

destiny and fate. The greater destiny, forged through conscious choice is not

determined and is ming as discussed extensively by Kongfuzi, Mengzi, and many

others. I ascribe the lower, superstitious, notion of preordained fate to the

character " shu " meaning literally " numbers " and having to do with fortune

telling, etc..

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