Ling definition

[Guest guest]

Ling as in " Ling shu " and " Ling zhi " has been translated as " cosmic " ,

" spiritual " and " divine " .

How is " Ling " different from " Shen " and is this commented on in the Nei jing

aside from the title of the 2nd classic?

Is this an example of Spirit with a capital S?

 

Ling shu 8th issue:

" Qi-Bo replied: Virtue (de) is what heaven (tian) bestows on us.

Qi is what Earth (di) bestows on us. Life is a product of an interaction

between the virtue (de)

of heaven (tian) and the Qi of earth (di). Jing is the source of life. "

(from Henry Lu's 2nd edition of Nei jing/Nan jing with Qi substituted for

" energy " )

 

Bob said that spirit in the Chinese medical classics was referring to

emotional states (psychological).

It seems as though in the Ling shu 8th issue, " Shen " points to something

beyond purely psychological:

 

" The laws of needling dictate that acupuncture should be, first and

foremost, based upon the spirit (shen). "

 

K

 

 

 

 

K

 

 

--

 

 

""

 

 

www.tcmreview.com

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Jeffrey Yuen translates Ling as " Soul "

 

from my notes 1/17/09:

 

" The Ling is the embodiment of the Spirit. " " Jing has form; when Jing

captures Shen, we have Ling. "

 

" Ling Hun

Ling Shen

Ling Po "

 

" the idea is redemption "

" the idea is continuation and afterlife "

 

I put the quotes around how I wrote the notes. of course this doesn't mean

it's RIGHT, just what I heard and wrote down a year ago.

 

RoseAnne

 

 

 

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 9:19 PM, <johnkokko wrote:

 

> Ling as in " Ling shu " and " Ling zhi " has been translated as " cosmic " ,

> " spiritual " and " divine " .

> How is " Ling " different from " Shen " and is this commented on in the Nei

> jing

> aside from the title of the 2nd classic?

> Is this an example of Spirit with a capital S?

>

> Ling shu 8th issue:

> " Qi-Bo replied: Virtue (de) is what heaven (tian) bestows on us.

> Qi is what Earth (di) bestows on us. Life is a product of an interaction

> between the virtue (de)

> of heaven (tian) and the Qi of earth (di). Jing is the source of life. "

> (from Henry Lu's 2nd edition of Nei jing/Nan jing with Qi substituted for

> " energy " )

>

> Bob said that spirit in the Chinese medical classics was referring to

> emotional states (psychological).

> It seems as though in the Ling shu 8th issue, " Shen " points to something

> beyond purely psychological:

>

> " The laws of needling dictate that acupuncture should be, first and

> foremost, based upon the spirit (shen). "

>

> K

>

>

>

>

> K

>

>

> --

>

>

> ""

>

>

> www.tcmreview.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

When asked about these relationships Father Claude Larre answered:

 

Jing,shen, ming, ling

 

 

When shen (consciousness/Spirit) interpenetrates jing (potential) destiny (ming)

is forged through self knowledge, and one becomes Spiritually potent (ling).

Ling=the mysterious capacity of nothing to create something.

[Guest guest]

K,

 

 

 

For fun, here is the passage you are referring to, the Chinese and five

translations. The Divine Pivot (ling shu) chapter 8 is probably the most

discussed and translated chapter from the NeiJing. In general, it is my

opinion that any translation that does not involve a native English- speaker

has a high potential for error.

 

----

 

 

 

᪲®ÇEÔ»£®ÌìÖ®ÔÚÎÒÕßµÂÒ²£®µØÖ®ÔÚÎÒÕßÆøÒ²£®µÂÁ÷Æø±¡¶øÉúÕßÒ².

 

 

 

Yellow Empero¡¯s [sic] (Enslighed [sic] by Nelson Liansheng Wu): the human

being comes out existence when receiving the original substance and energy

of heaven and earth, and the interflow and the combat of the original

substance and energy caused the shaping of man.

 

 

 

CL: heaven within me is virtue. Earth within me is the breaths. virtue

flows down, the breaths expand, and there is life.

 

 

 

Kendall: the sky is the source of our virtue and the earth is the source of

our vital air. Virtue flows to combine with vital air to create life.

 

 

 

Yang & Chace: heaven bestows vitality, while Earth bestows qi. The

coordinated flow of a vitality and qi engenders life.

 

 

 

Dan Bensky: That which is of Heaven that is located in the self is inherent

power. That which is of Earth that is located in the self is qi.

 

When the inherent power flows and the qi fans out, there is life.

 

 

 

¹ÊÉúÖ®À´£®Î½Ö®¾«£®

 

 

 

Empero¡¯s: The original substance which enables the evolution of human body

is called the essence of life;

 

 

 

CL: The coming forth of living beings indicate the essences.

 

 

 

Kendall: It is said that which causes life to come about is called refined

substances [mother¡¯s ovum and the father¡¯s sperm]

 

 

 

Yang & Chace: ??

 

 

 

Bensky: Therefore the arrival of life is called essence.

 

 

 

 

 

-Jason

 

 

 

 

On Behalf Of

Friday, February 26, 2010 7:20 PM

 

Ling definition

 

 

 

 

 

Ling as in " Ling shu " and " Ling zhi " has been translated as " cosmic " ,

" spiritual " and " divine " .

How is " Ling " different from " Shen " and is this commented on in the Nei jing

aside from the title of the 2nd classic?

Is this an example of Spirit with a capital S?

 

Ling shu 8th issue:

" Qi-Bo replied: Virtue (de) is what heaven (tian) bestows on us.

Qi is what Earth (di) bestows on us. Life is a product of an interaction

between the virtue (de)

of heaven (tian) and the Qi of earth (di). Jing is the source of life. "

(from Henry Lu's 2nd edition of Nei jing/Nan jing with Qi substituted for

" energy " )

 

Bob said that spirit in the Chinese medical classics was referring to

emotional states (psychological).

It seems as though in the Ling shu 8th issue, " Shen " points to something

beyond purely psychological:

 

" The laws of needling dictate that acupuncture should be, first and

foremost, based upon the spirit (shen). "

 

K

 

K

 

--

 

 

""

 

 

www.tcmreview.com

 

 

[Guest guest]

R,

 

 

 

Thanks for posting this. This is very similar to the many notes I have read

from Yuen. It sounds very inspirational, but actually I have no idea what he

is talking about. Can someone explain?

 

 

 

-Jason

 

 

 

 

On Behalf Of RoseAnne Spradlin

Friday, February 26, 2010 9:02 PM

 

Re: Ling definition

 

 

 

 

 

Jeffrey Yuen translates Ling as " Soul "

 

from my notes 1/17/09:

 

" The Ling is the embodiment of the Spirit. " " Jing has form; when Jing

captures Shen, we have Ling. "

 

" Ling Hun

Ling Shen

Ling Po "

 

" the idea is redemption "

" the idea is continuation and afterlife "

 

I put the quotes around how I wrote the notes. of course this doesn't mean

it's RIGHT, just what I heard and wrote down a year ago.

 

RoseAnne

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Jason,

this is great- thanks for posting it. Now i'm more confused than ever! :-)

 

Cara

 

On Feb 27, 2010, at 9:54 AM, wrote:

 

> K,

>

> For fun, here is the passage you are referring to, the Chinese and five

> translations. The Divine Pivot (ling shu) chapter 8 is probably the most

> discussed and translated chapter from the NeiJing. In general, it is my

> opinion that any translation that does not involve a native English- speaker

> has a high potential for error.

>

> ----

>

>

å²ä¼¯è…曰．天之在我者德也．地之在我者气也．德æµæ°”薄而ç”\

Ÿè€…也.

>

> Yellow Empero’s [sic] (Enslighed [sic] by Nelson Liansheng Wu): the human

> being comes out existence when receiving the original substance and energy

> of heaven and earth, and the interflow and the combat of the original

> substance and energy caused the shaping of man.

>

> CL: heaven within me is virtue. Earth within me is the breaths. virtue

> flows down, the breaths expand, and there is life.

>

> Kendall: the sky is the source of our virtue and the earth is the source of

> our vital air. Virtue flows to combine with vital air to create life.

>

> Yang & Chace: heaven bestows vitality, while Earth bestows qi. The

> coordinated flow of a vitality and qi engenders life.

>

> Dan Bensky: That which is of Heaven that is located in the self is inherent

> power. That which is of Earth that is located in the self is qi.

>

> When the inherent power flows and the qi fans out, there is life.

>

> 故生之æ¥ï¼Žè°“之精．

>

> Empero’s: The original substance which enables the evolution of human body

> is called the essence of life;

>

> CL: The coming forth of living beings indicate the essences.

>

> Kendall: It is said that which causes life to come about is called refined

> substances [mother’s ovum and the father’s sperm]

>

> Yang & Chace: ??

>

> Bensky: Therefore the arrival of life is called essence.

>

> -Jason

>

>

> On Behalf Of

> Friday, February 26, 2010 7:20 PM

>

> Ling definition

>

> Ling as in " Ling shu " and " Ling zhi " has been translated as " cosmic " ,

> " spiritual " and " divine " .

> How is " Ling " different from " Shen " and is this commented on in the Nei jing

> aside from the title of the 2nd classic?

> Is this an example of Spirit with a capital S?

>

> Ling shu 8th issue:

> " Qi-Bo replied: Virtue (de) is what heaven (tian) bestows on us.

> Qi is what Earth (di) bestows on us. Life is a product of an interaction

> between the virtue (de)

> of heaven (tian) and the Qi of earth (di). Jing is the source of life. "

> (from Henry Lu's 2nd edition of Nei jing/Nan jing with Qi substituted for

> " energy " )

>

> Bob said that spirit in the Chinese medical classics was referring to

> emotional states (psychological).

> It seems as though in the Ling shu 8th issue, " Shen " points to something

> beyond purely psychological:

>

> " The laws of needling dictate that acupuncture should be, first and

> foremost, based upon the spirit (shen). "

>

> K

>

> K

>

> --

>

>

> ""

>

>

> www.tcmreview.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Feb 27, 2010, at 9:06 AM, cara <herbbabe wrote:

 

> Jason,

> this is great- thanks for posting it. Now i'm more confused than

> ever! :-)

>

> Cara

>

> On Feb 27, 2010, at 9:54 AM, wrote:

>

> > K,

> >

> > For fun, here is the passage you are referring to, the Chinese and

> five

> > translations. The Divine Pivot (ling shu) chapter 8 is probably

> the most

> > discussed and translated chapter from the NeiJing. In general, it

> is my

> > opinion that any translation that does not involve a native

> English- speaker

> > has a high potential for error.

> >

> > ----

> >

> > å²ä¼¯è…曰．天之在我者德也．地之在我者气也．德

> æµæ°”薄而生者也.

> >

> > Yellow Empero’s [sic] (Enslighed [sic] by Nelson Liansheng Wu): th

> e human

> > being comes out existence when receiving the original substance

> and energy

> > of heaven and earth, and the interflow and the combat of the

> original

> > substance and energy caused the shaping of man.

> >

> > CL: heaven within me is virtue. Earth within me is the breaths.

> virtue

> > flows down, the breaths expand, and there is life.

> >

> > Kendall: the sky is the source of our virtue and the earth is the

> source of

> > our vital air. Virtue flows to combine with vital air to create

> life.

> >

> > Yang & Chace: heaven bestows vitality, while Earth bestows qi. The

> > coordinated flow of a vitality and qi engenders life.

> >

> > Dan Bensky: That which is of Heaven that is located in the self is

> inherent

> > power. That which is of Earth that is located in the self is qi.

> >

> > When the inherent power flows and the qi fans out, there is life.

> >

> > 故生之æ¥ï¼Žè°“之精．

> >

> > Empero’s: The original substance which enables the evolution of hu

> man body

> > is called the essence of life;

> >

> > CL: The coming forth of living beings indicate the essences.

> >

> > Kendall: It is said that which causes life to come about is called

> refined

> > substances [mother’s ovum and the father’s sperm]

> >

> > Yang & Chace: ??

> >

> > Bensky: Therefore the arrival of life is called essence.

> >

> > -Jason

> >

> >

> > On Behalf Of

> > Friday, February 26, 2010 7:20 PM

> >

> > Ling definition

> >

> > Ling as in " Ling shu " and " Ling zhi " has been translated as

> " cosmic " ,

> > " spiritual " and " divine " .

> > How is " Ling " different from " Shen " and is this commented on in

> the Nei jing

> > aside from the title of the 2nd classic?

> > Is this an example of Spirit with a capital S?

> >

> > Ling shu 8th issue:

> > " Qi-Bo replied: Virtue (de) is what heaven (tian) bestows on us.

> > Qi is what Earth (di) bestows on us. Life is a product of an

> interaction

> > between the virtue (de)

> > of heaven (tian) and the Qi of earth (di). Jing is the source of

> life. "

> > (from Henry Lu's 2nd edition of Nei jing/Nan jing with Qi

> substituted for

> > " energy " )

> >

> > Bob said that spirit in the Chinese medical classics was referring

> to

> > emotional states (psychological).

> > It seems as though in the Ling shu 8th issue, " Shen " points to

> something

> > beyond purely psychological:

> >

> > " The laws of needling dictate that acupuncture should be, first and

> > foremost, based upon the spirit (shen). "

> >

> > K

> >

> > K

> >

> > --

> >

> >

> > ""

> >

> >

> > www.tcmreview.com

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

My stab at explaining what Jeffrey means is much more simple ( yes, possibly

more naive) than Lonny's. (I have to read his a couple more times.)

 

" ...when Jing captures Shen we have Ling. "

 

I understand the above phrase as:

 

When the egg and the sperm come together (the Jing), the Shen, or cosmic

influence is also excited, and it enters in, or is " captured " by the Jing;

then the embodiment of the Soul (Ling) begins (embryogenesis). The Soul is

not the same thing as the person; the Soul is eternal, but leaves the body

at death, the hun through the eyes, the shen through the mouth and the po

through the anus. Redemption of the Soul is possible because the Soul can

reincarnate, and thereby complete its Curriculum.

 

roseanne

 

 

On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 9:56 AM, <

> wrote:

 

> R,

>

>

>

> Thanks for posting this. This is very similar to the many notes I have read

> from Yuen. It sounds very inspirational, but actually I have no idea what

> he

> is talking about. Can someone explain?

>

>

>

> -Jason

>

>

>

>

> On Behalf Of RoseAnne Spradlin

> Friday, February 26, 2010 9:02 PM

>

> Re: Ling definition

>

>

>

>

>

> Jeffrey Yuen translates Ling as " Soul "

>

> from my notes 1/17/09:

>

> " The Ling is the embodiment of the Spirit. " " Jing has form; when Jing

> captures Shen, we have Ling. "

>

> " Ling Hun

> Ling Shen

> Ling Po "

>

> " the idea is redemption "

> " the idea is continuation and afterlife "

>

> I put the quotes around how I wrote the notes. of course this doesn't mean

> it's RIGHT, just what I heard and wrote down a year ago.

>

> RoseAnne

 

[Guest guest]

Roseanne,

I can tell that you studied with Jeffrey Yuen in a deep way.

That sounds right, textual or not.

 

k

 

 

 

On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 4:09 PM, RoseAnne Spradlin <

roseanne.spradlin wrote:

 

>

>

> My stab at explaining what Jeffrey means is much more simple ( yes,

> possibly

> more naive) than Lonny's. (I have to read his a couple more times.)

>

> " ...when Jing captures Shen we have Ling. "

>

> I understand the above phrase as:

>

> When the egg and the sperm come together (the Jing), the Shen, or cosmic

> influence is also excited, and it enters in, or is " captured " by the Jing;

> then the embodiment of the Soul (Ling) begins (embryogenesis). The Soul is

> not the same thing as the person; the Soul is eternal, but leaves the body

> at death, the hun through the eyes, the shen through the mouth and the po

> through the anus. Redemption of the Soul is possible because the Soul can

> reincarnate, and thereby complete its Curriculum.

>

> roseanne

>

>

> On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 9:56 AM, <

> <%40Chinese Medicine>>

> wrote:

>

> > R,

> >

> >

> >

> > Thanks for posting this. This is very similar to the many notes I have

> read

> > from Yuen. It sounds very inspirational, but actually I have no idea what

> > he

> > is talking about. Can someone explain?

> >

> >

> >

> > -Jason

> >

> >

> >

> >

<%40>

> >

[ <%40>\

]

> On Behalf Of RoseAnne Spradlin

> > Friday, February 26, 2010 9:02 PM

> > <%40>

> > Re: Ling definition

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Jeffrey Yuen translates Ling as " Soul "

> >

> > from my notes 1/17/09:

> >

> > " The Ling is the embodiment of the Spirit. " " Jing has form; when Jing

> > captures Shen, we have Ling. "

> >

> > " Ling Hun

> > Ling Shen

> > Ling Po "

> >

> > " the idea is redemption "

> > " the idea is continuation and afterlife "

> >

> > I put the quotes around how I wrote the notes. of course this doesn't

> mean

> > it's RIGHT, just what I heard and wrote down a year ago.

> >

> > RoseAnne

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Lonny and RoseAnne,

 

I'm inspired by both Father Larre's and Jeffrey's characterizations. They

seem to me only slightly different ways to conceptualize and express in

language the same basic idea. I've tried to preserve the basic idea, while

making it perhaps a little simpler. I'm not attached to any particular

attempt to describe how we conceptualize these ideas. I think the point is

to develop some clarity about the nature of an individual's challenges in

life and how they develop disease, so that we can incisively determine

treatment strategies. Once the individualized shen is contained in the jing

and activates it, it becomes an embodied spirit.

 

- The " spiritual " aspect of the embodied spirit is the ling

 

 

- The " physical " aspect of the embodied spirit is what we refer to as

physiology

 

Of course, we know that the " physical " aspect is not wholly physical; such

are the limitations of language, so I used quotation marks to indicate this

linguistic difficulty. Both of these aspects are described in the early

chapters of Lingshu -- the differentiation of dynamics of the " spiritual

aspect " especially in chapter 8 (which John asked about), and the " physical "

aspect is described in various ways in several other chapters.

 

The character " shu " in the title of Lingshu is the same as the deepest of

three passageways into the interior of the being delineated in Lingshu,

chapter 5, suggesting the opening into the jing that allows the individuated

spirit to embody -- becoming a ling. I take this classic text as an effort

to indicate the nature of the central pivot around which that individuated

spirit embodies.

 

The inter-related dynamics of the five systems of channels (highlighted

especially in chapters 2, 5, 10, 11, 13, and 16) is one description of the

nature of individual embodiment. In modern CM, we tend to prioritize the

zangfu as the conceptual framework of this " physical " aspect, which leads to

a strong emphasis on the primary channels through their internal-external

relationship with the zangfu. While that is part of the wonderful theory of

the " central pivot " of the embodied spirit contained early in Lingshu, it

only part of it. Might we benefit our patients by learning other parts of

the nature of the embodied spirit?

 

Steve

 

On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 4:09 PM, RoseAnne Spradlin <

roseanne.spradlin wrote:

 

>

>

> My stab at explaining what Jeffrey means is much more simple ( yes,

> possibly

> more naive) than Lonny's. (I have to read his a couple more times.)

>

> " ...when Jing captures Shen we have Ling. "

>

> I understand the above phrase as:

>

> When the egg and the sperm come together (the Jing), the Shen, or cosmic

> influence is also excited, and it enters in, or is " captured " by the Jing;

> then the embodiment of the Soul (Ling) begins (embryogenesis). The Soul is

> not the same thing as the person; the Soul is eternal, but leaves the body

> at death, the hun through the eyes, the shen through the mouth and the po

> through the anus. Redemption of the Soul is possible because the Soul can

> reincarnate, and thereby complete its Curriculum.

>

> roseanne

>

>

> On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 9:56 AM, <

> <%40Chinese Medicine>>

> wrote:

>

> > R,

> >

> >

> >

> > Thanks for posting this. This is very similar to the many notes I have

> read

> > from Yuen. It sounds very inspirational, but actually I have no idea what

> > he

> > is talking about. Can someone explain?

> >

> >

> >

> > -Jason

> >

> >

> >

> >

<%40>

> >

[ <%40>\

]

> On Behalf Of RoseAnne Spradlin

> > Friday, February 26, 2010 9:02 PM

> > <%40>

> > Re: Ling definition

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Jeffrey Yuen translates Ling as " Soul "

> >

> > from my notes 1/17/09:

> >

> > " The Ling is the embodiment of the Spirit. " " Jing has form; when Jing

> > captures Shen, we have Ling. "

> >

> > " Ling Hun

> > Ling Shen

> > Ling Po "

> >

> > " the idea is redemption "

> > " the idea is continuation and afterlife "

> >

> > I put the quotes around how I wrote the notes. of course this doesn't

> mean

> > it's RIGHT, just what I heard and wrote down a year ago.

> >

> > RoseAnne

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Very interesting comparisons of texts, Jason. . . most appreciated.

 

I agree with you that a native speaker is essential in translation work. .

 

 

On Feb 27, 2010, at 6:54 AM, wrote:

 

> K,

>

> For fun, here is the passage you are referring to, the Chinese and five

> translations. The Divine Pivot (ling shu) chapter 8 is probably the most

> discussed and translated chapter from the NeiJing. In general, it is my

> opinion that any translation that does not involve a native English- speaker

> has a high potential for error.

>

> ----

>

>

å²ä¼¯è…曰．天之在我者德也．地之在我者气也．德æµæ°”薄而ç”\

Ÿè€…也.

>

> Yellow Empero’s [sic] (Enslighed [sic] by Nelson Liansheng Wu): the human

> being comes out existence when receiving the original substance and energy

> of heaven and earth, and the interflow and the combat of the original

> substance and energy caused the shaping of man.

>

> CL: heaven within me is virtue. Earth within me is the breaths. virtue

> flows down, the breaths expand, and there is life.

>

> Kendall: the sky is the source of our virtue and the earth is the source of

> our vital air. Virtue flows to combine with vital air to create life.

>

> Yang & Chace: heaven bestows vitality, while Earth bestows qi. The

> coordinated flow of a vitality and qi engenders life.

>

> Dan Bensky: That which is of Heaven that is located in the self is inherent

> power. That which is of Earth that is located in the self is qi.

>

> When the inherent power flows and the qi fans out, there is life.

>

> 故生之æ¥ï¼Žè°“之精．

>

> Empero’s: The original substance which enables the evolution of human body

> is called the essence of life;

>

> CL: The coming forth of living beings indicate the essences.

>

> Kendall: It is said that which causes life to come about is called refined

> substances [mother’s ovum and the father’s sperm]

>

> Yang & Chace: ??

>

> Bensky: Therefore the arrival of life is called essence.

>

> -Jason

>

>

> On Behalf Of

> Friday, February 26, 2010 7:20 PM

>

> Ling definition

>

> Ling as in " Ling shu " and " Ling zhi " has been translated as " cosmic " ,

> " spiritual " and " divine " .

> How is " Ling " different from " Shen " and is this commented on in the Nei jing

> aside from the title of the 2nd classic?

> Is this an example of Spirit with a capital S?

>

> Ling shu 8th issue:

> " Qi-Bo replied: Virtue (de) is what heaven (tian) bestows on us.

> Qi is what Earth (di) bestows on us. Life is a product of an interaction

> between the virtue (de)

> of heaven (tian) and the Qi of earth (di). Jing is the source of life. "

> (from Henry Lu's 2nd edition of Nei jing/Nan jing with Qi substituted for

> " energy " )

>

> Bob said that spirit in the Chinese medical classics was referring to

> emotional states (psychological).

> It seems as though in the Ling shu 8th issue, " Shen " points to something

> beyond purely psychological:

>

> " The laws of needling dictate that acupuncture should be, first and

> foremost, based upon the spirit (shen). "

>

> K

>

> K

>

> --

>

>

> ""

>

>

> www.tcmreview.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jason,

thanks for the translations... this is fun to compare.

Here's the Chace and Yang translation of the second line:

¹ÊÉúÖ®À´£®Î½Ö®¾«£®

 

" That which comes together with life is called essence. "

 

and goes on to say:

.... " The interaction of the two essences is called the spirit.

That which follows the spirit everywhere is called the hun.

That which comes and goes with the essence is called the po.

That which controls bodily substance is called the heart-mind.... "

 

(Jia yi jing translated by Chace and Yang.. derived from Ling shu 8)

 

K

[Guest guest]

Thanks John (or do you prefer ¡®K¡¯),

 

 

 

Anyway, at one point I taught a translation class and we used the first part

of Ling Shu 8. Pasted in below is the rest of the translation comparison

that I handed out. If anyone has the desire and time it would be interesting

to add in other translations (e.g. Henry Lu etc.). Some of these lines are

actually quite simple in comparison to other Nei Jing passages, nonetheless,

we arrive at very different translations. One can only wonder about the more

complex passages and their accuracy.

 

 

 

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B¨§n sh¨¦n d¨¬-b¨¡£®

 

Hu¨¢ngd¨¬ w¨¨n y¨² Q¨ªb¨® yu¨¥£® F¨¢n c¨¬ zh¨© f¨££®b¨¬ xi¨¡n b¨§n y¨² sh¨¦

n£®

 

Chapter 8 ¨C Rooted in the spirit (Manifestations of the spirit.)

 

For all methods of needling one must first have a basis in the spirit.

 

CL: for every needling, the method is above all not to miss the rooting in

the spirits.

 

Empero¡¯s: according to the principle of acupuncture, one must examine the

patient

 

carefully first and then treat according to the conditions of his spiritual

activities.

 

Kendall: The principles of needling are primarily based upon the source or

origins of

 

spirit or vitality.

 

Yang & Chace: all methods of needling must first have their basis in the

spirit.

 

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Xu¨¨m¨¤i y¨ªng q¨¬ j¨©ngsh¨¦n, c¨« w¨³ c¨¢ng(z¨¤ng)zh¨© su¨¯c¨¢ng y¨§£®

 

Blood, vessels, constructive, qi, essence, and spirit, these are what the 5

visceral store.

 

Empero¡¯s: as the blood, channel, ying-energy, vital energy and essence of

life are all

 

stored by the five viscera.

 

CL:

 

Kendall: Blood, vessels, nutrients, vital air, refined substances, and the

vitality are stored

 

in the five viscera.

 

Yang & Chace: The blood, the vessels, the constructive (qi), qi, essence,

and spirit are

 

all stored within the five viscera.

 

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Zh¨¬ q¨ª y¨ªn zh¨±; l¨ª c¨¢ng z¨¦ j¨©ng sh¨©£®

 

Empero¡¯s: when they become abnormal and be divorced from the storing

viscous, the

 

refined energy of the liver viscera will be lost.

 

CL: if a situation becomes such that by a succession of overflowings and

total invasion

 

they leave the zang, then the essences are lost

 

Kendall: When they are excessive or overflowing, and leave their storage, it

causes a

 

loss of refined substances,

 

Yang & Chace: n/a

 

»êÆÇ·ÉÑ־ÒâŽ/*»Ð*/ÂÒ_£®ÖÇÂÇÈ¥ÉíÕß,

 

H¨²np¨° f¨¥iy¨¢ng£®zh¨¬ y¨¬ m¨¨n/*hu¨£ng*/lu¨¤n_£®zh¨¬l¨¸ q¨´ sh¨¥n zh¨§,

 

Empero¡¯s: the soul and the inferior spirit will be rising in the air, the

will be vexed and

 

the patient himself will lose his intelligence and fail to ponder.

 

CL: and hun and po are carried away in an uncontrollable agitation, will and

intent

 

become confused and disordered. Knowing-how and reflection abandon us.

 

Kendall: a dispersion of mood [hun] and vigor [po], a sudden disorder or

confusion of

 

drive [zhi] and intent [yi], and a departure of wisdom [zhi]and thought

[lu];

 

Yang & Chace:

 

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H¨¦y¨©n ¨¦r r¨¢nh¨±, ti¨¡n zh¨© zu¨¬ y¨³, r¨¦n zh¨© gu¨° h¨±£®

 

Empero¡¯s: and why is it so? Is it due to the natural morbidity or due to

the artificial fault

 

of man? Besides, what is the original substance?

 

CL: where does this state come from? Should Heaven be blamed? Is it the

man's fault?

 

Kendall: how can this be correct? Are these faults offered by the sky, or

are they

 

inherent in people?

 

Yang & Chace:

 

ºÎνµÂÆøÉú¾«Éñ»êÆÇÐÄÒâ־˼ÖÇÂÇ£®ÇëÎÊÆä¹Ê£®

 

H¨¦w¨¨i d¨¦ q¨¬ sh¨¥ng j¨©ngsh¨¦n h¨²np¨° x¨©ny¨¬ zh¨¬ s¨© zh¨¬l¨¸£®q¨«ngw¨¨

n q¨ª

 

g¨´£®

 

Empero¡¯s: How can it produce the essence of life, spirit, soul, inferior

spirit, mind in

 

heart, idea, will, pondering, wisdom and consideration? I hope to hear the

reason about it.

 

CL: and what do we call virtue, graphs, life, essences, shen, hun, po,

heart, intent, Will,

 

thought, knowing-how, reflection?

 

Kendall: What is meant by virtue, a vital air, birth, refined substances,

vitality, mood,

 

vigor, mind, intent, drive, pensiveness, wisdom, and the thoughts? Please

may I hear

 

your response?

 

Yang & Chace: Therefore, what are vitality (de), qi, life (sheng), essence,

spirit,hun, po,

 

the heart-mind (xin), reflection (yi), will (zhi), thought (si), wisdom

(zhi), and worry (lu)?

 

Please tell me about these.

 

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ÉúÕßÒ².

 

Empero¡¯s: the human being comes out existence when receiving the original

substance

 

and energy of heaven and earth, and the interflow and the combat of the

original

 

substance and energy caused the shaping of man.

 

CL: heaven within me is virtue. Earth within me is the breaths. virtue flows

down, the

 

breaths expand, and there is life.

 

Kendall: Qibo replies: the sky is the source of our virtue and the earth is

the source of

 

our vital air. Virtue flows to combine with vital air to create life.

 

Yang & Chace: heaven bestows vitality, while Earth bestows qi. The

coordinated flow

 

of a vitality and qi engenders life.

 

 

 

 

 

-Jason

 

 

 

 

On Behalf Of

Sunday, February 28, 2010 8:43 PM

 

Re: Ling definition

 

 

 

 

 

Jason,

thanks for the translations... this is fun to compare.

Here's the Chace and Yang translation of the second line:

¹ÊÉúÖ®À´£®Î½Ö®¾«£®

 

" That which comes together with life is called essence. "

 

and goes on to say:

.... " The interaction of the two essences is called the spirit.

That which follows the spirit everywhere is called the hun.

That which comes and goes with the essence is called the po.

That which controls bodily substance is called the heart-mind.... "

 

(Jia yi jing translated by Chace and Yang.. derived from Ling shu 8)

 

K