zhi bai di huang tang and hot flashes

[Guest guest]

On 9/23/02 2:25 PM, " "

wrote:

 

> Message: 7

> Sun, 22 Sep 2002 21:08:24 -0000

> " chinesemedicineman " <chinesemedicineman

> Re: zhi bai di huang tang and hot flashes

>

> , Sharon Weizenbaum <sweiz@r...> wrote:

>

>> My sense of why Zhi Bai Di Huang Tang does not work for menopausal hot

>> flashes is the following. Menopausal symptoms are related to 7 year cycles

>> which is related to Jing. Liu Wei Di Huang Tang nourishes Kidney Yin and

>> supplements Kidney Qi but does nothing for the Jing aspect. My teacher, Dr.

>> Zhu, used to talk about the importance of " boosting the hormones " in these

>> cases, which was her way of saying you must include Jing tonics.

>

>

> Are their particular signs and symptoms if jing deficiency you look for

> in meopause ?

>

> Michael

 

In my experience, Jing deficiency often occurs with no " basic Kidney signs "

What I mean by basic Kidney signs are weak sore low back, night urine type

symptoms. My teachers taught me to regard growth and development issues

(i.e. 7 & 8 year cycle things) as Jing issues. In this light, at our

clinic/school, we consider primary dysmenorrhea (painful since onset) as, in

part, a Jing deficiency. So, the fact that an issue occurs related to a 7

year cycle, is, in itself and indicator of Jing involvement. You do not

need other Kidney signs to conclude this. I hope to be teaching on just

this kind of thing at the 2003 CHA conference. These differentiations have

made a tremendous difference for us clinically. In my experience teaching,

I have seen that the whole idea of Jing deficiency has been understood in a

pretty limited way - i.e. Teeth falling out, bones disintegrating, rapid

aging. The Jing tonics have a much broader use than one would at first

consider.

 

Best, Sharon Weizenbaum

[Guest guest]

Sharon Weizenbaum wrote:

 

> My teachers taught me to regard growth and development issues

> (i.e. 7 & 8 year cycle things) as Jing issues.

 

That would suggest that menopause is a Jing deficiency then. Right? Interesting.

 

--

Al Stone L.Ac.

<AlStone

http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

[Guest guest]

Hi Sharon,

 

>> Qi or Blood deficiency can occur with Empty Fire

 

Can you please explain what is the mechanism behind Qi deficiency

leading to empty-heat?

Is there really a mechanism or is it just a matter of clinical

observation.

I'm not including the yin-fire theory here since it has a more

complex mechanism then just qi deficiency.

 

Thank You,

Dan

[Guest guest]

, " Geoffrey Hudson, L.Ac. "

<list@a...> wrote:

Interesting with the Yu Jin. I just wanted to double check on this

formula- " Gan Lian Tang " is the name of it, right? At first I thought

it was the first herbal ingredient...I guess Tang should have been

my clue...

 

> Gan Lian Tang

> Sheng Di 15g

> Bai Shao 18-24

> Nu Zhen Zi 15

> Ju Hua (add last few minutes) std dose

> Huang Qin 12

> Suan Zao Ren 15

> Xuan Shen 15

> Mai Dong 15

> Wu Wei Zi 15

>

> Geoff

>

>

> > __________

> >

> > Message: 1

> > Sun, 22 Sep 2002 19:31:23 -0000

> > " gabriellemathieu " <gabriellemathieu>

> > Re: zhi bai di huang tang and hot flashes

> >

> > I have found that Zhi Bai Di Huang Wan is not always helpful

either.

> > We did try Two Immortaisl (Er Xian Tang?) and that helped

for a

> > little while. But what in that formula addresses jing, rather

than

> > kidney yang and yin.

> >

> > Someone posted earlier about using Mu Li/Long Gu or even

Shi Gao for

> > some patients. While it is true, as Sharon says, that empty

fire

> > would encompass more than just kidney yin deficiency, I do

not see

> > how a substance that clears heat at the qi or yang ming level,

like

> > Shi Gao, would fit that syndrome. I have been tempted to use

it on

> > the patient who didn't respnd to Zhi Bai DHW or Er Xian Tang

after a

> > couple of weeks, but I just couldn't support it through my

diagnosis.

> >

> > I noted someone use Di Gu Pi for severe hot flashes one

time, and

> > have thought about using that. Any thoughts on expanding on

the use

> > of Di Gu Pi for that syndrome.

> >

> > >Sharon said " My sense of why Zhi Bai Di Huang Tang does

not work for

> > menopausal hot

> > > flashes is the following. Menopausal symptoms are

related to 7

> > year cycles

> > > which is related to Jing "