Guest guest Posted January 25, 2002 Report Share Posted January 25, 2002 Is it true that in March it will be legal to use herbal injectables in Florida? Anybody know? -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2002 Report Share Posted January 25, 2002 Yes it is true. The school I attend in Orlando has been giving classes for the what, where, when, why and how. I've been looking for injectable herbals, haven't found any yet. The scope will also include some injectable vitamins and some other minor things. Also in March you will be able to order lab work and imaging, etc. Susan Arnold - Al Stone Chinese Herbal Medicine Friday, January 25, 2002 7:40 PM Herbal Injectables in FL? Is it true that in March it will be legal to use herbal injectables in Florida?Anybody know?-- Al Stone L.Ac.<AlStonehttp://www.BeyondWellBeing.comPain is inevitable, suffering is optional.Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2002 Report Share Posted January 25, 2002 , Al Stone <alstone@b...> wrote: > Is it true that in March it will be legal to use herbal injectables >in Florida? Anybody know? Yeap! As of March 2002, Florida practitioners will be able to inject herbal rx. The law states that only on acupuncture points. Not intravenously. There are some schools teaching the technique for a about 1000 big ones! Does anyone inject herbs on this list? Fernando Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2002 Report Share Posted January 25, 2002 My question is where do you get the injectables? Are these the ones that they use in China like Dang Gui and Chai Hu? fbernall wrote: > > , Al Stone <alstone@b...> wrote: > > Is it true that in March it will be legal to use herbal injectables > >in Florida? Anybody know? > > Yeap! As of March 2002, Florida practitioners will be able to inject > herbal rx. The law states that only on acupuncture points. Not > intravenously. There are some schools teaching the technique for a > about 1000 big ones! > > Does anyone inject herbs on this list? > > Fernando -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2002 Report Share Posted January 25, 2002 My understanding is we will only be able to inject after training. They just finished the course at FITCM. I'm sure they will be doing it again. My question will be where do we get the herbs to inject. Bob student at fitcm in St pete fl --- fbernall <fbernall wrote: > , Al Stone > <alstone@b...> wrote: > > Is it true that in March it will be legal to use > herbal injectables > >in Florida? Anybody know? > > Yeap! As of March 2002, Florida practitioners will > be able to inject > herbal rx. The law states that only on acupuncture > points. Not > intravenously. There are some schools teaching the > technique for a > about 1000 big ones! > > Does anyone inject herbs on this list? > > Fernando > > Great stuff seeking new owners in Auctions! http://auctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2002 Report Share Posted January 26, 2002 , Al Stone <alstone@b...> wrote: > My question is where do you get the injectables? Are these the ones > that they use in China like Dang Gui and Chai Hu? Yes, those are the ones. Besides herbal rx, practitioners will also be able to inject other nutritional substances such vitamins and homeopathic rx. I Don't know where to get these injections. Do you know of other States that allow acupuncturist to use herbal injections? Fernando Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2002 Report Share Posted January 26, 2002 there are many homeopathic preparations - Susan Arnold RR Friday, January 25, 2002 6:41 PM Re: Herbal Injectables in FL? Yes it is true. The school I attend in Orlando has been giving classes for the what, where, when, why and how. I've been looking for injectable herbals, haven't found any yet. The scope will also include some injectable vitamins and some other minor things. Also in March you will be able to order lab work and imaging, etc. Susan Arnold - Al Stone Chinese Herbal Medicine Friday, January 25, 2002 7:40 PM Herbal Injectables in FL? Is it true that in March it will be legal to use herbal injectables in Florida?Anybody know?-- Al Stone L.Ac.<AlStonehttp://www.BeyondWellBeing.comPain is inevitable, suffering is optional.Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2002 Report Share Posted January 26, 2002 there are quite a few participants inthe FSOMA that push this kind of issue (injectables, the title DOM, primary care provider designation etc...) The FSOMA web site could probably provide legislative lobby documentation and other related political info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2002 Report Share Posted January 26, 2002 I thought I'd heard that the injectable herbals are available from Lotus. Could be just a rumor, don't know. Frances Susan Arnold RR wrote: Yes it is true. The school I attend in Orlando has been giving classes for the what, where, when, why and how. I've been looking for injectable herbals, haven't found any yet. The scope will also include some injectable vitamins and some other minor things. Also in March you will be able to order lab work and imaging, etc. Susan Arnold - Al Stone Chinese Herb Academy Friday, January 25, 2002 7:40 PM Herbal Injectables in FL? Is it true that in March it will be legal to use herbal injectables in Florida? Anybody know? -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2002 Report Share Posted January 26, 2002 Fernando, I presume that the inclusion of injectables in the scope of practice in Florida was the result of some sort of lobbying, filing of documents, etc. Do you know who was moving the initiative forward? Is there a filing available for public review that includes citations to relevant sources in the literature? Thanks, Ken , " fbernall " <fbernall@a...> wrote: > , Al Stone <alstone@b...> wrote: > > My question is where do you get the injectables? Are these the ones > > that they use in China like Dang Gui and Chai Hu? > > Yes, those are the ones. Besides herbal rx, practitioners will also be > able to inject other nutritional substances such vitamins and > homeopathic rx. > > I Don't know where to get these injections. Do you know of other > States that allow acupuncturist to use herbal injections? > > Fernando Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2002 Report Share Posted January 26, 2002 Yeah, really. Let's clone that initiative! dragon90405 wrote: > > Fernando, > > I presume that the inclusion of injectables > in the scope of practice in Florida was the > result of some sort of lobbying, filing of > documents, etc. > > Do you know who was moving the initiative > forward? > > Is there a filing available for public > review that includes citations to relevant > sources in the literature? -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2002 Report Share Posted January 26, 2002 Ken, Al, It seems, " grapevine talk " , that the force behind this effort was that of a practitioner named Harvey Kaltsas. I'm sure he did not act alone but his voice was the loudest. The issue was opposed in the State court by the Florida American Medical Association. They had several objections, 1)acupuncture practitioners being called " physicians " ,2) ordering lab test, and image findings 3) the injectables. The acupuncture community gave a valiant effort and the FAMA lost; at the State level, that is. There are some concerns of a Federal level battle. There are other concerns among practitioners about this new scope of practice and centers on competence and lack of proper training that, some fear, could expose pt's to malpractice lawsuits. The Board has required that practitioners complete twelve hours of CEUs with four of those hours for Florida law and HIV, with the remaining focused on interpretation of lab work and image findings. So far no one seems to know who can give the injections. There's talk about seminars that would give a certificate that qualifies the pt. to do so. My understanding is that there's a school in Sarasota, FL that's teaching the " injectables " technique for about $1000.00 Guess who owns that school! There's a school in Miami and the Orlando school that are offering training at a lower cost I've been told. I did a search on the web and found that injectables are within the scope of practice in New Mexico. apparently two MDs members of that board resigned after the law was passed. I will find out more details of documents and relevant material and will update this list. , " dragon90405 " <yulong@m...> wrote: > Fernando, > > I presume that the inclusion of injectables > in the scope of practice in Florida was the > result of some sort of lobbying, filing of > documents, etc. > > Do you know who was moving the initiative > forward? > > Is there a filing available for public > review that includes citations to relevant > sources in the literature? > > Thanks, > > Ken > > , " fbernall " <fbernall@a...> wrote: > > , Al Stone <alstone@b...> wrote: > > > My question is where do you get the injectables? Are these the > ones > > > that they use in China like Dang Gui and Chai Hu? > > > > Yes, those are the ones. Besides herbal rx, practitioners will also > be > > able to inject other nutritional substances such vitamins and > > homeopathic rx. > > > > I Don't know where to get these injections. Do you know of other > > States that allow acupuncturist to use herbal injections? > > > > Fernando Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2002 Report Share Posted January 26, 2002 I'm busy with a seminar this weekend but I will find the info for you and post it next week. Susan Arnold - dragon90405 Saturday, January 26, 2002 5:40 PM Re: Herbal Injectables in FL? Fernando,I presume that the inclusion of injectablesin the scope of practice in Florida was theresult of some sort of lobbying, filing ofdocuments, etc.Do you know who was moving the initiativeforward?Is there a filing available for publicreview that includes citations to relevantsources in the literature?Thanks,Ken, "fbernall" <fbernall@a...> wrote:> , Al Stone <alstone@b...> wrote:> > My question is where do you get the injectables? Are these the ones > > that they use in China like Dang Gui and Chai Hu?> > Yes, those are the ones. Besides herbal rx, practitioners will also be > able to inject other nutritional substances such vitamins and > homeopathic rx.> > I Don't know where to get these injections. Do you know of other > States that allow acupuncturist to use herbal injections?> > FernandoChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2002 Report Share Posted January 27, 2002 Al, > Yeah, really. > > Let's clone that initiative! Do you have references or other sources on this subject? Ken > > dragon90405 wrote: > > > > Fernando, > > > > I presume that the inclusion of injectables > > in the scope of practice in Florida was the > > result of some sort of lobbying, filing of > > documents, etc. > > > > Do you know who was moving the initiative > > forward? > > > > Is there a filing available for public > > review that includes citations to relevant > > sources in the literature? > > -- > Al Stone L.Ac. > <AlStone@B...> > http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com > > Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2002 Report Share Posted January 27, 2002 -Al, -- In , Al Stone <alstone@b...> wrote: > Yeah, really. > > Let's clone that initiative! > Do you have references or other sources on this? Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2002 Report Share Posted January 27, 2002 Al, > Yeah, really. > > Let's clone that initiative! > Do you have literature on this modality? Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2002 Report Share Posted January 27, 2002 In a message dated 1/26/2002 6:46:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, bob_and_robin writes: My understanding is we will only be able to inject after training. They just finished the course at FITCM. I'm sure they will be doing it again. My question will be where do we get the herbs to inject. Bob student at fitcm in St pete fl This is not true. I was on the phone with the Dept. of Health last week and the man somewhat embarrassed admitted that the rules governing training got held up but the permission to inject did not so,,,,, for the mean time, us Floridians have the unique privilege of being able to inject with no training and do it legally. Strange but true, Chris Allison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute & URL=Ch0457/titl0457.htm & StatuteYear=2000 & Title=%2D%3E2000%2D%3EChapter%20457 Florida's laws. - dragon90405 Saturday, January 26, 2002 5:40 PM Re: Herbal Injectables in FL? Fernando,I presume that the inclusion of injectablesin the scope of practice in Florida was theresult of some sort of lobbying, filing ofdocuments, etc.Do you know who was moving the initiativeforward?Is there a filing available for publicreview that includes citations to relevantsources in the literature?Thanks,Ken, "fbernall" <fbernall@a...> wrote:> , Al Stone <alstone@b...> wrote:> > My question is where do you get the injectables? Are these the ones > > that they use in China like Dang Gui and Chai Hu?> > Yes, those are the ones. Besides herbal rx, practitioners will also be > able to inject other nutritional substances such vitamins and > homeopathic rx.> > I Don't know where to get these injections. Do you know of other > States that allow acupuncturist to use herbal injections?> > FernandoChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 No references to the legalities, but the medical practice yes. Let's see... 'The Treatment of 100 Common Diseases by New Acupuncture " (Medicine & Health Publishing Co. The prices on the book cover indicate that it was intended for sale in Hong Kong.) makes mention of injectables. Plus I saw them used frequently in China. Specifically in the Bell's Palsy clinic. They injected Dang Gui and vitamin B-12 into GB 20. Also, when I got sick in China, I got an injection into my hip of Chai Hu. I was 90% better inside of an hour. fever came down, nausea went away, dizziness and other indications quickly abated. I love that stuff. dragon90405 wrote: > > Al, > > > Yeah, really. > > > > Let's clone that initiative! > > Do you have references or other sources > on this subject? > > Ken > > > > dragon90405 wrote: > > > > > > Fernando, > > > > > > I presume that the inclusion of injectables > > > in the scope of practice in Florida was the > > > result of some sort of lobbying, filing of > > > documents, etc. > > > > > > Do you know who was moving the initiative > > > forward? > > > > > > Is there a filing available for public > > > review that includes citations to relevant > > > sources in the literature? > > > > -- > > Al Stone L.Ac. > > <AlStone@B...> > > http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com > > > > Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 I just found the brochure for that course, it must explain why they have taught part one twice, They are covering the basics (for $120) and will teach the actual hands on in part two once the guide lines are established. Bob --- ShenDao2 wrote: > In a message dated 1/26/2002 6:46:24 PM Eastern > Standard Time, > bob_and_robin writes: > > > > My understanding is we will only be able to inject > > after training. They just finished the course at > > FITCM. I'm sure they will be doing it again. My > > question will be where do we get the herbs to > inject. > > > > Bob > > student at fitcm in St pete fl > > > > This is not true. I was on the phone with > the Dept. of Health last > week and the man somewhat embarrassed admitted that > the rules governing > training got held up but the permission to inject > did not so,,,,, for the > mean time, us Floridians have the unique privilege > of being able to inject > with no training and do it legally. > Strange but true, > Chris Allison > Great stuff seeking new owners in Auctions! http://auctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 Al, > No references to the legalities, but the medical practice yes. I'm interested to know what exists in English on the use of injectables. > > Let's see... 'The Treatment of 100 Common Diseases by New Acupuncture " > (Medicine & Health Publishing Co. The prices on the book cover indicate > that it was intended for sale in Hong Kong.) makes mention of > injectables. Plus I saw them used frequently in China. Specifically in > the Bell's Palsy clinic. They injected Dang Gui and vitamin B-12 into GB > 20. Are there any other books, articles, etc. that you...or anyone else has on this subject? Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 I just read an article on sheng mai san injections for COPD... (international j of o.m. vol 25, no. 4, pp 199-203) It definitely showed positive substantial results. The trial was done fairly well, a control group, stats analysis, etc.. although there were only 40 participants. The high success with a difficult disease process, in my mind outweighs the minor methological deficiencies. - > > dragon90405 [yulong] > Monday, January 28, 2002 12:59 PM > > Re: Herbal Injectables in FL? > > Al, > > > > No references to the legalities, but the medical practice yes. > > I'm interested to know what exists in > English on the use of injectables. > > > > Let's see... 'The Treatment of 100 Common Diseases by New > Acupuncture " > > (Medicine & Health Publishing Co. The prices on the book cover > indicate > > that it was intended for sale in Hong Kong.) makes mention > of > > injectables. Plus I saw them used frequently in China. > Specifically in > > the Bell's Palsy clinic. They injected Dang Gui and vitamin B-12 > into GB > > 20. > > Are there any other books, articles, > etc. that you...or anyone else has > on this subject? > > > Ken > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare > practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics > specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of > professional services, including board approved online continuing > education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 Bob, , Bob Linde <bob_and_robin> wrote: > I just found the brochure for that course, it must > explain why they have taught part one twice, They are > covering the basics (for $120) and will teach the > actual hands on in part two once the guide lines are > established. Is there any citation of or reference to anything in writing? If there's anyone on the list who has done the training, I'd like to see a rundown on what is covered, particularly noting the materials being used to train the related knowledge and skills. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2002 Report Share Posted January 29, 2002 A few schools are doing it in FL and it is being done in New Mexico. Richard Freiberg is conducting one of the FL trainings. Will In a message dated 1/29/02 6:39:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, yulong writes: Do you know anyone who has taken the class? I'd be very interested to know the titles and authors and other publication data if available of the books that are being used to teach the use of injectables. I'm sorry if I missed it earlier, but what school is this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2002 Report Share Posted January 29, 2002 Ken - no cites....will In a message dated 1/29/02 7:01:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, yulong writes: Are you aware of what literature is being used as the basis of instruction in either location or what was used to support the process that took place in Florida that resulted in inclusion of injectables in the scope of practice there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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