zi3 wu3 liu2 zhu4

[Guest guest]

 

Ken Rose [cosmic.dragon]

Wednesday, February 07, 2001 11:15 AM

 

zi3 wu3 liu2 zhu4

 

With respect to the movements of yin1 and yang2 throughout

the course of the day and night, there is a comprehensive

theoretical statement of these changes known as zi3 wu3 liu2 zhu4.

 

The Practical Dictionary defines this phrase in terms of its

relevance to point selection in acupuncture. But the underlying

theoretical components, tian1 gan1 di4 zhi1 or heavenly

stems and earthly branches, particularly describe the alternation

of yin1 and yang2 throughout a hypothetical day. These are

both highly useful theoretical tools that can be used to address

the questions that have been raised concerning the nature

and explanation of phenomena such as night sweats.

 

Ken,

 

Can you elaborate on how the cycling of earthly stems/ celestial braches

(energy) can explain night sweats.. I personally do not see a correlation or

explanation to/of night sweats pathology. It is my understanding that,

although the stems and branches are circulating on a the hourly basis (as

well as daily, monthly, and yearly), they are circulating in a base 60

counting manner. This is translated into a 60-hour cycle producing patterns

that are far too varied and long to explain the 'typical' waxing and waning

of yin and yang in a daily snapshot. Said another way, the maximum yin and

yang times, or when various aspects of branches and stems are lining up,

would vary from day-to-day, hence (seen in) open points consistently

changing on a sixty-day cycle. According to these energetic influences some

nights would be much more yang than others (as well as the other influences

i.e. this night might be a more yin wood horse night.) I would like to hear

more of your thoughts on how this system relates to a daily cycle (i.e.

Chinese clock) in a more consistent daily manner, and more importantly then,

how this can be used in explaining pathology i.e. night sweats. I do not

have a sophisticated enough understanding of this system to do so, but am

curious.

 

 

[Guest guest]

With respect to the movements of yin1 and yang2 throughout

the course of the day and night, there is a comprehensive

theoretical statement of these changes known as zi3 wu3 liu2 zhu4.

 

The Practical Dictionary defines this phrase in terms of its

relevance to point selection in acupuncture. But the underlying

theoretical components, tian1 gan1 di4 zhi1 or heavenly

stems and earthly branches, particularly describe the alternation

of yin1 and yang2 throughout a hypothetical day. These are

both highly useful theoretical tools that can be used to address

the questions that have been raised concerning the nature

and explanation of phenomena such as night sweats.

 

However, before such explanations make true sense, one

has to take hold of the most fundamental terms in all of

these theoretical structures: yin1 and yang2.

 

Anyone who seeks to deepen their understanding of

yin1 and yang2 is well advised to have a look at the Introduction

to a little book called Yuan Dao, which is a translation by D.C. Lau

and Roger Ames of the famous Han dynasty text. It contains

some of the most cogent analysis of Han thinking that I have

ever read in English. The syncretism that marked Han intellectual

life left an indellible impression on Chinese medicine as it did on

virtually all aspects, that is to say on the essence of Chinese life

and culture. To a great extent the common notion of what it means

to be Chinese dates from this period.

 

A few dollars and a few hours invested in reading this book

can have disproportinate benefits for those who seek to penetrate

the mists and take hold of the clear concepts that underlie

Chinese medical theories and provide them with the spark of

life.

 

Put this little book on your reading list.

 

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

Jason,

 

 

Can you elaborate on how the cycling of earthly stems/ celestial braches

(energy) can explain night sweats.

 

Before I get into the specifics of your question,

I think it's worth pointing out few general

consideration. Certainly we use theories to develop

explanations of clinical situations. But theory is

not an end in and of itself nor does it explain

anything at all in the abstract.

 

Theories are lenses that we can select as appropriate

for the viewing of clinical situations. Without the

specific details of a given situation, we cannot

come to conclusions even as to which theory should

be applied.

 

So when we talk about theory we cannot demand that

any particular theory explain any particular phenomenon,

as this is not what they are meant to do. As we gain

experience and understanding, we not only become

more proficient at the selection of the appropriate

theory to match clinical situations, but the explanations

that we synthesize with the admixture of clinical and

theoretical data become more useful in terms of pointing

the way towards successful intervention.

 

This may seem like a fine point or even hair splitting,

but I believe it is important to appreciate the subtle

difference between a theory and an explanation.

 

I personally do not see a correlation or

explanation to/of night sweats pathology. It is my understanding that,

although the stems and branches are circulating on a the hourly basis (as

well as daily, monthly, and yearly), they are circulating in a base 60

counting manner. This is translated into a 60-hour cycle producing patterns

that are far too varied and long to explain the 'typical' waxing and waning

of yin and yang in a daily snapshot. Said another way, the maximum yin and

yang times, or when various aspects of branches and stems are lining up,

would vary from day-to-day, hence (seen in) open points consistently

changing on a sixty-day cycle. According to these energetic influences some

nights would be much more yang than others (as well as the other influences

i.e. this night might be a more yin wood horse night.) I would like to hear

more of your thoughts on how this system relates to a daily cycle (i.e.

Chinese clock) in a more consistent daily manner, and more importantly then,

how this can be used in explaining pathology i.e. night sweats. I do not

have a sophisticated enough understanding of this system to do so, but am

curious.

 

You've said several things about zi3 wu3 liu2 zhu4 and

tian1 gan1 di4 zhi1. I don't know if we can sort through

all of it. It would require a bit of a dialog, which I'm

happy to have with you, but it will take a while.

 

In any case, if we examine not the detailed particulars

of zi3 wu3 liu2 zhu4 but the gist of it, perhaps it will

become more useful.

 

The words mean:

 

zi3 - one of the ten heavenly stems that corresponds with

midnight

 

wu3 - another of the ten heavenly stems that corresponds

with midday

 

liu2 - flow

 

zhu - pour

 

Thus a literal translation might simply be:

flow and pour midnight and midday.

 

If you make all of that flow a little more freely

it might come out in English as the flowing

and pouring from midnight to midday.

 

Of course we have to establish flowing and pouring

of what, and as is often the case in such theoretical

structures and statements, the operant term is omitted.

Here the operant term is qi4, of course. We're talking

about the flowing and pouring of qi4 throughout the

channels and network vessels throughout the entire

cycle of the day.

 

That's the meaning of the zi3 wu3 terminology. From

one end of the cycle to the other...and back again.

 

So what the theory describes is the ebb and flow of

qi4 throughout the body throughout the course of the

day and night.

 

Being able to assess any particular patient's condition

with respect to harmony with or dissonace with resepect

to the normal phsyiologic functions described in this

theory can naturally help a doctor understand the nature

of that patient's particular pathology. Again, I think

it's terribly important to differentiate between the

demands we place on theory as doctrines and the demands

we place on theory as clinical tools.

 

I do not mean that you can find in some statement of

the theory of zi3 wu3 liu2 zhu4 an explanation of night

sweats or of any other category of symptom. But you

can, through a careful understanding of this theory,

come to understand the various phenomena of qi4 in

the body more clearly.

 

 

As I suggested in my earlier post, the key to better

understanding of such theories lies not in their

intracacies but in their essences. Thus if you

wish to continue the dialog to illuminate the

usefulness of this theory for understanding and

dealing with night sweats, I suggest our next

topic should be yin1 and yang2.

 

After all, that is the question isn't it? Why

does the yin1 and yang2 of the body interact

with the yin1 and yang2 of the environment in

the ways that it does to produce this phenomenon

of sweating during sleep at night?

 

The answers lie both in the realm of understanding

physiology and pathology and in the realm of

understanding the terminology and metaphors employed

to describe both the normal and pathological states.

 

Does that help?

 

Ken